I'm a lifelong Laker fan who's not a fan of signing LeBron
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Mamba Mentality
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject:

LBJ23 wrote:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
george w kush wrote:
KobeIsTheOne wrote:
LBJ23 wrote:
Kobe is an all time Great. He isn't a top 5 player. Lebron is a top 5 player, and still has a chance to be number 1. I love Kobe, but he wasn't top 5 all time.


But it's hard to argue he has the same champion's mentality when compared to guys like Jordan, Magic, Kobe, Bird, etc...



3 of Kobe's rings came by playing with Shaq, the 3 time NBA Finals MVP. Where was this championship mentality when he was crying to management about wanting to get traded to the Bulls because he had garbage teammates? Seems more like a quitters mentality to me. It's nice and all to have a 'championship' like mentality when you have guys that can save your butt in a game 7 like Pau and Artest did against the Celtics but when you don't have these guys around and instead have the Smush Parkers/Kwame Browns of the world like Lebron had early in his career he won't 'find a way to win', instead he'll complain about it to management and advocate to have players traded or get himself traded.

BTW guys like Magic, Bird and Kobe has the benefit have having hall of famers surrounding them for most of their careers. How many rings would these guys have if they had to play with guys like Mo Williams, JR Smith and Larry Hughes for most of their careers? Probably not as many as they do now.


Not fair. You're not telling the whole story. There're identical counters to everything just mentioned. Why do you think LeBron left CLE in 2010? For the same exact reason Kobe wanted a trade in 2007. Their respective FOs were not doing anything to improve the roster. And please don't compare the 06 Lakers squad to the 07 LeBron squad that he dragged to the finals. That CLE was better and they had the benefit of playing in the East. As for Pau and Artest saving the Lakers in game 7, LeBron had a championship that was saved by Ray Allen after LeBron kept choking in crunch time. Let's not even talk about 2011 finals. LeBron didn't play with Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, and JR Smith for most of his career. And that's because LeBron never stays with one franchise for a rebuild.


Lebron was drafted into a rebuild. Kobe was drafted on a team that was almost championship ready.

LeBron was given the keys to the car, Kobe wasn't. Had to ride the bench and the Lakers weren't a championship team until HE developed into that player. Shaq didn't win with Eddie and Nick. Anyway, I truly don't care for the debate, I just want to point out similarities and differences in their circumstances. I hope LBJ wins multiple rings here.
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george w kush
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject:

LBJ23 wrote:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
george w kush wrote:
KobeIsTheOne wrote:
LBJ23 wrote:
Kobe is an all time Great. He isn't a top 5 player. Lebron is a top 5 player, and still has a chance to be number 1. I love Kobe, but he wasn't top 5 all time.


But it's hard to argue he has the same champion's mentality when compared to guys like Jordan, Magic, Kobe, Bird, etc...



3 of Kobe's rings came by playing with Shaq, the 3 time NBA Finals MVP. Where was this championship mentality when he was crying to management about wanting to get traded to the Bulls because he had garbage teammates? Seems more like a quitters mentality to me. It's nice and all to have a 'championship' like mentality when you have guys that can save your butt in a game 7 like Pau and Artest did against the Celtics but when you don't have these guys around and instead have the Smush Parkers/Kwame Browns of the world like Lebron had early in his career he won't 'find a way to win', instead he'll complain about it to management and advocate to have players traded or get himself traded.

BTW guys like Magic, Bird and Kobe has the benefit have having hall of famers surrounding them for most of their careers. How many rings would these guys have if they had to play with guys like Mo Williams, JR Smith and Larry Hughes for most of their careers? Probably not as many as they do now.


Not fair. You're not telling the whole story. There're identical counters to everything just mentioned. Why do you think LeBron left CLE in 2010? For the same exact reason Kobe wanted a trade in 2007. Their respective FOs were not doing anything to improve the roster. And please don't compare the 06 Lakers squad to the 07 LeBron squad that he dragged to the finals. That CLE was better and they had the benefit of playing in the East. As for Pau and Artest saving the Lakers in game 7, LeBron had a championship that was saved by Ray Allen after LeBron kept choking in crunch time. Let's not even talk about 2011 finals. LeBron didn't play with Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, and JR Smith for most of his career. And that's because LeBron never stays with one franchise for a rebuild.


Lebron was drafted into a rebuild. Kobe was drafted on a team that was almost championship ready.


And when the team is no longer championship caliber(06), he wants out. Not surprising.

Meanwhile Lebron signs with the Lakers for 4 full years onto a team with a bunch of 1-3 year players without any guarantees of landing another star player. Say something doesn't it.
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SuperboyReformed
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:56 am    Post subject:

Pau Gasol's Beard wrote:
You're a "Kobe Stan" who's not a real Laker fan. /thread

a Kobe Stan is almost certainly a laker fan! wth?!
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:02 pm    Post subject:

george w kush wrote:
LBJ23 wrote:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
george w kush wrote:
KobeIsTheOne wrote:
LBJ23 wrote:
Kobe is an all time Great. He isn't a top 5 player. Lebron is a top 5 player, and still has a chance to be number 1. I love Kobe, but he wasn't top 5 all time.


But it's hard to argue he has the same champion's mentality when compared to guys like Jordan, Magic, Kobe, Bird, etc...



3 of Kobe's rings came by playing with Shaq, the 3 time NBA Finals MVP. Where was this championship mentality when he was crying to management about wanting to get traded to the Bulls because he had garbage teammates? Seems more like a quitters mentality to me. It's nice and all to have a 'championship' like mentality when you have guys that can save your butt in a game 7 like Pau and Artest did against the Celtics but when you don't have these guys around and instead have the Smush Parkers/Kwame Browns of the world like Lebron had early in his career he won't 'find a way to win', instead he'll complain about it to management and advocate to have players traded or get himself traded.

BTW guys like Magic, Bird and Kobe has the benefit have having hall of famers surrounding them for most of their careers. How many rings would these guys have if they had to play with guys like Mo Williams, JR Smith and Larry Hughes for most of their careers? Probably not as many as they do now.


Not fair. You're not telling the whole story. There're identical counters to everything just mentioned. Why do you think LeBron left CLE in 2010? For the same exact reason Kobe wanted a trade in 2007. Their respective FOs were not doing anything to improve the roster. And please don't compare the 06 Lakers squad to the 07 LeBron squad that he dragged to the finals. That CLE was better and they had the benefit of playing in the East. As for Pau and Artest saving the Lakers in game 7, LeBron had a championship that was saved by Ray Allen after LeBron kept choking in crunch time. Let's not even talk about 2011 finals. LeBron didn't play with Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, and JR Smith for most of his career. And that's because LeBron never stays with one franchise for a rebuild.


Lebron was drafted into a rebuild. Kobe was drafted on a team that was almost championship ready.


And when the team is no longer championship caliber(06), he wants out. Not surprising.

Meanwhile Lebron signs with the Lakers for 4 full years onto a team with a bunch of 1-3 year players without any guarantees of landing another star player. Say something doesn't it.


That Lebron no longer cares about winning, he's given up, wants to get paid and let his son go to school out there.
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governator
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:03 pm    Post subject:

Whoa. This thread is a roller coaster.

Kobe got 3 out of 4 with HOF teammate, 2 out of 3 with Pau
LBJ got 2 out of 4 with HOF teammates, 1 out 3 with Kyrie and 0-2 with non-stars

Kobe ahead by a hair (hopefully LBJ would increase his ring count)

Lakers Pau better than Cavs Kyrie?
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kobeandgary
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:04 pm    Post subject:

LBJ23 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
LBJ23 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
^Greater diversity of moves vs refinement. Simple.


Ok, but the ball still needs to go into the hoop at a higher %. Passing and rebounding are not a skill?

Shooting a high %, passing, and rebounding are better skills to have than more moves and refinement


Wait, before I even start this because I don't care much for a LeBron and Kobe argument.

Are you a LeBron guy or a Laker guy?


Laker. Kobe is my favorite player. But I can see who the better overall player is and it isn't really close.


Lebron has had the easiest path to the final that any star could ask for while only going 3-6...If you like stats then Westbrook is the GOAT, if you like pure skill and winning...Then Lebron is way down the list, certainly behind the likes of Kobe, Jordan, Magic, Kareem etc...
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:06 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Whoa. This thread is a roller coaster.

Kobe got 3 out of 4 with HOF teammate, 2 out of 3 with Pau
LBJ got 2 out of 4 with HOF teammates, 1 out 3 with Kyrie and 0-2 with non-stars

Kobe ahead by a hair (hopefully LBJ would increase his ring count)

Lakers Pau better than Cavs Kyrie?


Kobe being plus 2 while playing in a tougher conference, staying through a rebuild midcareer, not switching teams... that is Kobe ahead by only a hair? Interesting...

Kyrie is way better than Pau by the way, That game 7 shot is probably the greatest shot in NBA history.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:09 pm    Post subject:

how did kobe greatness get into this thread?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:11 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
Maybe this should be turned into a Lebron P&M thread. It appears we are going to need one this year.


I agree strongly, there's going to be controversy during the year and people need a place to criticize him.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:23 pm    Post subject:

There are so many bad posts per page in this thread (from both sides) that it's almost gone past a mere message board thread and become a work of art. Like, it should be in a museum.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject:

Mods should volt this one up.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject:

I don't think people look at Kobe's career in context. The first two years of his career are basically a wash. Simply because of a stubborn coach or he just wasn't ready?

Kobe had 15 solid seasons, 16 if you count year two. It was a time when young players were not trusted. Not to mention Kobe was like BI skinny back then. Lebron came into the league almost with or as much muscles as prime Kobe.

Kobe averaged 27/5/5 in those seasons, winning 5 championships. 3 as a 20,21,22 year old, which is insane. Shaq was dominant, but he didn't win a thing until Bryant got big minutes.

Lebron just finished up year 15 he averages 27/7/7. They ain't that far off people. Plus Kobe dealt with nagging injuries his whole career. Where as Lebron has virtually been healthy the whole time.

I would even go as far as to say these stats alone are a testament to Kobe being a greater player. He has obviously done more with less dominant genes

I love them both, Lebron grew back on me when he went back to Cleveland. I rooted for him every year against the Warriors. Because lets face it, they had to build this team to beat him. Thats the name of the game. Thats why Durant takes paycuts to stay ahead of the curve ( and cash out at the end).

Anything Lebron does for the Lakers is window dressing. I hope we can win two, that is probably the only thing that puts him on Magic/Kobe levels as a Laker, but still probably not the greatest one.

I'm happy LbJ is a Laker. I do feel this might not be all about winning championships, but I hope they can get a couple. If they can and beat the Warriors and Celtic awhile doing it even better.

I get the feeling from commentary that Kobe is becoming an underrated player slightly? And I know the skeptics would say he is overrated.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject:

toksfale wrote:
32 wrote:
Maybe this should be turned into a Lebron P&M thread. It appears we are going to need one this year.


I agree strongly, there's going to be controversy during the year and people need a place to criticize him.


Just criticize him in the Official LBJ Thread, it’s not all sunshine and lolipops in there either.

No need for more Garbage threads like a P&M thread for specific players. Just dumb.
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Last edited by Nash Vegas on Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
how did kobe greatness get into this thread?


I seen that and rolled with it in my post^
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:40 pm    Post subject:

This thread is AIDS. How can you be a Lakers fan and not be excited at the fact that we signed the best player in the game currently after years of mediocrity
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:51 pm    Post subject:

tony wrote:
This thread is AIDS. How can you be a Lakers fan and not be excited at the fact that we signed the best player in the game currently after years of mediocrity


Something something Kobe something...

And posters like this who only logs in to post on how much he hates LeBron because something something Kobe something:

http://forums.lakersground.net/search.php?search_author=kobeandgary

Check his most recent 100 posts, all of them are in this thread or something to do with a thread bashing LeBron
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:01 pm    Post subject:

tony wrote:
This thread is AIDS. How can you be a Lakers fan and not be excited at the fact that we signed the best player in the game currently after years of mediocrity


An example of why we can't have nice things....Jealousy ruins everything.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:03 pm    Post subject:

(Some Lakers fans the past 4 offseasons): WE WANT THE BEST FREE AGENTS!

2014: swing and a miss
2015: whiff
2016: whiff
2017: whiff
2018: #1 FA signs with Lakers (and then this thread).

Ok.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:12 pm    Post subject:

I had not joined this forum when Kobe was said to have forced Shaq and Phil out of LA.

How many rooted for Kobe at the time?

Maybe we can get some perspective as to being a Laker fan first.

And let the hypocrazy speak for itself.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:13 pm    Post subject:

The loudest voices here who don't want Lebron on the Lakers consider Kobe The GOAT and/or their favorite player. Coincidence?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:14 pm    Post subject:

As usual George w kush ruins a thread by turning it into a Kobe v Bron debate. Trolls are given too much leniency these days on lg
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:17 pm    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
The loudest voices here who don't want Lebron on the Lakers consider Kobe The GOAT and/or their favorite player. Coincidence?

Hypocrazy speaks louder.
The worst opponents of Kobe turn out to be ..... (fill in the blank).

Lol.
Not going to check out all of haters' posts. But man... this is so freaking funny.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:19 pm    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
The loudest voices here who don't want Lebron on the Lakers consider Kobe The GOAT and/or their favorite player. Coincidence?


He's not even the greatest Laker of all time, that would be Magic. And even if there was a debate on who was better Laker between the 2, once we win a ring with The King that debate will all be settled. 5 rings and another one as GM? Greatest Laker ever easily.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:28 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
(Some Lakers fans the past 4 offseasons): WE WANT THE BEST FREE AGENTS!

2014: swing and a miss
2015: whiff
2016: whiff
2017: whiff
2018: #1 FA signs with Lakers (and then this thread).

Ok.


Eh. Lebron is a polarizing player for a lot of reasons. Some people truly, genuinely dislike him and did not want to see him on the Lakers. (I’m not thrilled with it, but I got over this kind of thing when we signed Ron Freaking Artest.). I respect those people and think that they deserve the opportunity to vent.

I also understand that a number of people feel the need to criticize these people because Lebron is a Laker now, the name on the front is more important than the name on the back, yada yada yada. But really, this is not about moral superiority.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:29 pm    Post subject:

moonriver24 wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
The loudest voices here who don't want Lebron on the Lakers consider Kobe The GOAT and/or their favorite player. Coincidence?

Hypocrazy speaks louder.
The worst opponents of Kobe turn out to be ..... (fill in the blank).

Lol.
Not going to check out all of haters' posts. But man... this is so freaking funny.


People who think signing Lebron was a great thing for the Lakers run the entire gamut. Some think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread, some don't. I sure don't consider the guy anywhere near my favorite player.
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