Offseason Grades: How Do You Grade the Lakers' Draft and New Free Agents?
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What is the Overall Grade You Would Give the Lakers' Offseason?
A+ (Holy Crap... How Did We Pull This Off?)
28%
 28%  [ 9 ]
A or A- (Really Exceeded My Expectations)
40%
 40%  [ 13 ]
B+ or B (Overall Pleasantly Surprised)
18%
 18%  [ 6 ]
B- or C+ (About What I Expected, Give or Take)
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
C (Okay I Guess, But Wish We Could Have Done Better)
9%
 9%  [ 3 ]
C- or D+ (Below Expectations)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
D or below (Fail)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 32

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:56 pm    Post subject:

A+
1) Lebron, obviously.

A
2) I wasn't a believer at first, but Svi Mykhailiuk. I ranked him 55th in this draft, so I thought he was overdrafted, and Kansas players haven't traditionally done well since the turn of the century in the league (Josh Jackson stinking it up last year doesn't help). But man, what a pure shot, with a great head on his shoulders, good athleticism, good unquantified in-the-right area sort of defense that always eludes stat geeks like Pelton and make them try to fudge their stats to account for it. I also think he's a good passer (he started as a 6'7" PG back when he was a European wunderkind/prodigy at age 15--back then he was deemed as a lotto pick) and I'd like to see that unleashed.
3) JaVale McGee. I've always had a soft spot for his abilities. A 7-footer with a quick first and second jump, and one of the best dunks per 40 minutes ever in the league? Count me in. He's also a good rebounder and shotblocker, and routinely stuffs the stat sheet with 20+ PERs in limited minutes. Athletic asthma and perceived boneheadedness undercut playing time, but for the minimum he's a great get. If you thought Larry Nance was athletic an older JaVale is even moreso.

B+
1) Mo Wagner. Again, like Svi, initial analytics thought he was an overdrafted, but I always kind of figured he was more than just another big shooter with his good steal rate-that always indicated mobility. But man, he was analytically impressive on defense in the summer league. In 21 minutes, 8 rebounds per, 2.7 steals, and 1.3 blocks? I always knew the dude was tough, but those are insane per-40s anywhere. That steal rate is just insane for a 7-foot dude who was perceived to have average athleticism at best. Pelton's stat-busting algo thought Wagner also showed a lot of potential. If he can pair that defensive moxie with his inside-outside game things can get interesting. You could have bumped this into an A if it weren't for the fact that at 25, we could have had Robert Williams or Mitchell Robinson or whoever, so I'll keep it at a B+.

B
1) Rondo. Rondo is one of those mega-polarizing guys who will have his share of detractors and boosters. Back when he was young, and the league was less about shooting, you wanted to have this guy--a triple double threat, pesky defender with wingspan, athleticism and speed, moody but also with a killer instinct and real leadership skills. Analytics god. Short non-shooters don't age gracefully into their 30s and that's the problem, and he's also had run-ins with Carlisle and bounced around recently--but he's also shown great leadership in recent Nawlins and Sacto stints. A true constant is high assist rate. This guy can create shots for anyone. Now whether he can elevate a team's offense with this style is somewhat questionable--it's hard to put the ball in the hands of a non-shooter--but he kind of made it happen with Nawlins. Defensively he's become a bit slackerly and taking things for granted given his tools, but again, the tools and the savvy if he wants to lock in are there.The Lakers have no shortage of playmakers and if Rondo can re-invest on that end of the court this could be interesting.
2) KCP. Eh, I like KCP. He was waaayyy better than in Detroit with us, proving a since turn-of-the-century tendency for players who join the Lakers to punch above their weight compared to the previous teams they were in. Not to mention, Detroit in particular under the SVG regime had a maddening tendency for their draft picks to bust, and KCP had a low PER in albeit 35 minutes per game because Detroit loved to run its players to the ground. With us, KCP put up a far better three point shooting percentage and rebound rate, and of course makes money with steals. He's more of a rover and is somewhat short and slender to prevent power matchups, but that also helps against quick guards. Dude also has a toughness about him. He isn't long for the team because we have so much young wing talent, but he's underrated for what he can offer. Maybe not at that money, but for a 1-year deal, yep, and he's a good asset for the team.

C/meh
1) Malik Newman on the 2-way. Not a super big fan of Newman; I'd prefer Ajdin Penava for instance, especially since we have too many wings, and Newman is just a shooter with some rebounding chops but was in the red for everything else. For a 6'3" guy he doesn't even have secondary ballhandling ability. I could have given this a D if it weren't so inconsequential.

D
1) Lance Stephenson. All the stats hate him, and you almost feel like he plays the game to satiate his desire to get certain counting stats like rebounds and assists. You're not even sure if he helps the team rebound rate, or if he actually makes teammates better with his assists; because he might steal rebounds from teammates and actively hogs the ball to seek out assists. He's a brickster otherwise, inside and out, and despite a sturdy frame and toughness has no ability to generate steals or even put up a positive defensive impact. He's a guy who plays basketball to ruffle things and maybe inject energy, but that's about it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:00 pm    Post subject:

Draft Players

1. Wagner - B
2. Svi - A (bleep) +
3. Bonga - Incomplete

Free Agent Players

1. Lebron - A+
2. KCP (resign) C
3. Rondo - B+
4. Stevenson - F
5. McGee - B
6. No Julius - C
7. No Brook - D
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:48 pm    Post subject:

Draft Players

1. Wagner - B-, Exceeded my expectations offensively. Avoided the post game most of Vegas Summer League and stuck to more of a face up game. Never got enough pick and pop. Still the same concerns in terms of strength defensively. Analytics are not in his favor except for the limited sample of possessions in Iso. Is he a rim protector? Eh..

2. Svi - B+, the guy I liked the most of the Laker draft. Fortunately, the Lakers got FIBA version Svi than Kansas Svi; meaning more frequent slashing attacks to the hoop, solid finishing, a lot more PnR play that showed improvement as Vegas continued. FIBA Svi is a 1st round pick. Kansas Svi is a 2nd rounder.

3. Bonga - D, and this isn't even because of the other guys I prefer. As I've mentioned before, he learned to run before he could crawl. What kind of point guard can make advanced reads, but can't shoot, barely knows relocation, can only operate in PnR, zero off-ball ability, and just gets outmuscled along the perimeter and paint defensively? He's not Shaun Livingston. Shaun was considerably further ahead across the board.

4. Jeffrey Carroll - A+, Exhibit 10 contract. He was absolutely this year's Matt Thomas. More inconsistent, erratic PT, but hit his shots behind the arc (albeit a bit flat), but actually attacked the rim more than Thomas ever did successfully. Can legitimately play the NBA if he follows a "bigger Joe Harris" route. Would be a hell of a get for South Bay.

5. Malik Newman - C, Expected a lot more out of the guard, but he's a SF in a PG body. Anthony Bowie much? Inconsistent pull up jumpers/3pt shots; perhaps it has to do with injury, but the initiator skills were completely lacking.

Free Agent Players

1. Lebron - A+
2. KCP (resign) B
3. Rondo - B
4. Stevenson - C
5. McGee - B
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:02 pm    Post subject:

Draft-

1) Wagner - B+, something in my gut just tells me he is going to be one of those players everyone loves for his hustle, energy, his talking but also because he can really play. I still wonder if/think Mitchell Robinson was a better pick but I think they were willing to let him fall to "snare him at 39"

2) Svi - A, not much needs to be said

3) Bonga - F, I watch him and can't see him ever being an NBA player. There were so many better options on the table at that point or they could have tried to trade up a few spots to get Robinson


Free Agency

1) Lebron - A+
2) KCP (resign) B-
3) Rondo - B+
4) Stevenson - C
5) McGee - A

I do wish they had brought back Lopez as our starter and instead of Lance, I wish we got Gerald Green for his shooting ability. But otherwise, I like this squad a lot.
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LakerLogic
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:08 pm    Post subject:

How does Svi get anything less than an A at 47?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:13 pm    Post subject:

LakerLogic wrote:
How does Svi get anything less than an A at 47?


Steal at 47; personal preference for other guys, certain things I don't expect to translate next level.

He saw some NBA level contests during the game against the Blazers, loaded with NBA players. We saw how that went.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:13 pm    Post subject:

Draft -

Wagner - B+
Svi - A
Bonga - D-


FA

Lebron - A+
KCP - B
Rondo - C
Lance - D
McGee - A
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deal
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:15 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
How does Svi get anything less than an A at 47?


Steal at 47; personal preference for other guys, certain things I don't expect to translate next level.

He saw some NBA level contests during the game against the Blazers, loaded with NBA players. We saw how that went.



Let it play out, he could come back from that...
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:16 pm    Post subject:

Draft Players

1. Wagner - B
2. Svi - A
3. Bonga - I

Free Agent Players

1. Lebron - A
2. KCP (resign) B
3. Rondo - A
4. Stevenson - B
5. McGee - B
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:18 pm    Post subject:

deal wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
How does Svi get anything less than an A at 47?


Steal at 47; personal preference for other guys, certain things I don't expect to translate next level.

He saw some NBA level contests during the game against the Blazers, loaded with NBA players. We saw how that went.



Let it play out, he could come back from that...


We could say that of the entire rookie crop, man.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:21 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
How does Svi get anything less than an A at 47?


Steal at 47; personal preference for other guys, certain things I don't expect to translate next level.

He saw some NBA level contests during the game against the Blazers, loaded with NBA players. We saw how that went.


He played with zero creators and had to do way too much on that SPL team.

As much as the level of competition is going to be much better, he's going to have to do far less than he did in the SPL to be able to score and is likely to get much better looks.

Nothing is guaranteed, but I think he deserves a big break playing on a roster that's pretty close to the worst possible roster for him to excel with.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Grades for Draft and Free Agent Players

Draft

1. Wagner - B+ - showed enough playmaking that I think he's going to be a .90 cents on the dollar Jokic
2. Svi - A+ - he gets an A+ based on where they drafted him
3. Bonga - F- - showed nothing in summer league and gets an F due to the fact that Melton was still on the board. Gets the - (minus) due to how Melton played in summer league.

Free Agency

1. Lebron A+ (Duh)
2. KCP - C - I think they overpaid.
3. Mcgee - D - I think Brolo was the much better option for the price he ended up signing for.
4. Rondo - C- They overpaid.
5. Stephenson D - the guy is simply all sizzle no steak.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:24 pm    Post subject:

davidse wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
How does Svi get anything less than an A at 47?


Steal at 47; personal preference for other guys, certain things I don't expect to translate next level.

He saw some NBA level contests during the game against the Blazers, loaded with NBA players. We saw how that went.


He played with zero creators and had to do way too much on that SPL team.

As much as the level of competition is going to be much better, he's going to have to do far less than he did in the SPL to be able to score and is likely to get much better looks.

Nothing is guaranteed, but I think he deserves a big break playing on a roster that's pretty close to the worst possible roster for him to excel with.


It's not about the creation, or what he had to do for that SPL team. In fact he had no pressure until the last two games.

Why can't I just have a preference for another player? People heavily invested in the draft had a fairly rough idea that you could get 1st round talents from #15-#45. Svi playing the FIBA version of himself surprises me, but not the fact that he fit within that crop as well.

People want to focus on that "he's a steal at #47" but it's not perceived so much of a steal with the middle 1st to middle 2nd is roughly the same tier of player.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:30 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Why can't I just have a preference for another player

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:30 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
davidse wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
How does Svi get anything less than an A at 47?


Steal at 47; personal preference for other guys, certain things I don't expect to translate next level.

He saw some NBA level contests during the game against the Blazers, loaded with NBA players. We saw how that went.


He played with zero creators and had to do way too much on that SPL team.

As much as the level of competition is going to be much better, he's going to have to do far less than he did in the SPL to be able to score and is likely to get much better looks.

Nothing is guaranteed, but I think he deserves a big break playing on a roster that's pretty close to the worst possible roster for him to excel with.


It's not about the creation, or what he had to do for that SPL team. In fact he had no pressure until the last two games.

Why can't I just have a preference for another player? People heavily invested in the draft had a fairly rough idea that you could get 1st round talents from #15-#45. Svi playing the FIBA version of himself surprises me, but not the fact that he fit within that crop as well.

People want to focus on that "he's a steal at #47" but it's not perceived so much of a steal with the middle 1st to middle 2nd is roughly the same tier of player.


I didn't have an issue with you preferring another player.
My entire post was about Svi struggling in that final game which you pointed out.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:33 pm    Post subject:

Quote:

My entire post was about Svi struggling in that final game which you pointed out.
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Ah, I can see that why that may be highlighted.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:36 pm    Post subject:

Draft

1. Wagner - B+ - 32 Rebounds, 12 steals, and 10 blocks in 130 minutes of summer league play. All of that easily translates to the regular season. The shooting will come.
2. Svi - A+ - second team all summer league will learn to get seperation and will prosper on the wing for kick outs from Lebron and Lonzo
3. Bonga - D - is two years away from being two years away...if that

2 way players

1. Caruso - B- - Played better but is still 3rd string. My fear is that he has peaked.
2. Newman - C- - Showed glimmers but still needs to work on being consistant.

Free Agency

1. Lebron A+ (Duh)
2. KCP - B - Will be pushed by Lebron to do more and will be pushed by Hart for the starting job. Will either step up or be gone at the end of the season with no complaints from his agent.
3. McGee - C- - not the small ball center who can switch on the perimeter as Luke likes to play
4. Rondo - C- good backup considering his injuries and mentor for Ball
5. Stephenson D - not the offensive player we need
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:39 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
4. Jeffrey Carroll - A+, Exhibit 10 contract. He was absolutely this year's Matt Thomas. More inconsistent, erratic PT, but hit his shots behind the arc (albeit a bit flat), but actually attacked the rim more than Thomas ever did successfully. Can legitimately play the NBA if he follows a "bigger Joe Harris" route. Would be a hell of a get for South Bay.


I knew he signed an Ex. 10 contract....but does that imply he will will be at camp?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:41 pm    Post subject:

I'm still mad at Bonga over Melton. Everything else made some sense, except maybe Stephenson.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:43 pm    Post subject:

Wagner: B-
Svi: B+
Bonga: D

Lebron: A+
KCP: B
Rondo: B
Stephenson: C-
McGee: C+
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:23 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
4. Jeffrey Carroll - A+, Exhibit 10 contract. He was absolutely this year's Matt Thomas. More inconsistent, erratic PT, but hit his shots behind the arc (albeit a bit flat), but actually attacked the rim more than Thomas ever did successfully. Can legitimately play the NBA if he follows a "bigger Joe Harris" route. Would be a hell of a get for South Bay.


I knew he signed an Ex. 10 contract....but does that imply he will will be at camp?


Interesting that you guys are high on Carroll. I actually like some of his game on offense but worry how bad he is on defense. It would be awesome if he did make it with the Lakers. I would be glad to be wrong.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:09 pm    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
4. Jeffrey Carroll - A+, Exhibit 10 contract. He was absolutely this year's Matt Thomas. More inconsistent, erratic PT, but hit his shots behind the arc (albeit a bit flat), but actually attacked the rim more than Thomas ever did successfully. Can legitimately play the NBA if he follows a "bigger Joe Harris" route. Would be a hell of a get for South Bay.


I knew he signed an Ex. 10 contract....but does that imply he will will be at camp?


Interesting that you guys are high on Carroll. I actually like some of his game on offense but worry how bad he is on defense. It would be awesome if he did make it with the Lakers. I would be glad to be wrong.


I would not have expectations for him to make the roster....but if he could be assigned to South Bay via the Exhibit 10 contract.....would allow his to stay on the organizations radar. I am a little bias, but I watched this guy his Junior season at OK State, and he was really good....especially at shooting from the perimeter.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:14 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
4. Jeffrey Carroll - A+, Exhibit 10 contract. He was absolutely this year's Matt Thomas. More inconsistent, erratic PT, but hit his shots behind the arc (albeit a bit flat), but actually attacked the rim more than Thomas ever did successfully. Can legitimately play the NBA if he follows a "bigger Joe Harris" route. Would be a hell of a get for South Bay.


I knew he signed an Ex. 10 contract....but does that imply he will will be at camp?


Interesting that you guys are high on Carroll. I actually like some of his game on offense but worry how bad he is on defense. It would be awesome if he did make it with the Lakers. I would be glad to be wrong.


I would not have expectations for him to make the roster....but if he could be assigned to South Bay via the Exhibit 10 contract.....would allow his to stay on the organizations radar. I am a little bias, but I watched this guy his Junior season at OK State, and he was really good....especially at shooting from the perimeter.


No doubt. I do like his shooting ability.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:22 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Draft Players

1. Wagner - B-, Exceeded my expectations offensively. Avoided the post game most of Vegas Summer League and stuck to more of a face up game. Never got enough pick and pop. Still the same concerns in terms of strength defensively. Analytics are not in his favor except for the limited sample of possessions in Iso. Is he a rim protector? Eh..

2. Svi - B+, the guy I liked the most of the Laker draft. Fortunately, the Lakers got FIBA version Svi than Kansas Svi; meaning more frequent slashing attacks to the hoop, solid finishing, a lot more PnR play that showed improvement as Vegas continued. FIBA Svi is a 1st round pick. Kansas Svi is a 2nd rounder.

3. Bonga - D, and this isn't even because of the other guys I prefer. As I've mentioned before, he learned to run before he could crawl. What kind of point guard can make advanced reads, but can't shoot, barely knows relocation, can only operate in PnR, zero off-ball ability, and just gets outmuscled along the perimeter and paint defensively? He's not Shaun Livingston. Shaun was considerably further ahead across the board.

4. Jeffrey Carroll - A+, Exhibit 10 contract. He was absolutely this year's Matt Thomas. More inconsistent, erratic PT, but hit his shots behind the arc (albeit a bit flat), but actually attacked the rim more than Thomas ever did successfully. Can legitimately play the NBA if he follows a "bigger Joe Harris" route. Would be a hell of a get for South Bay.

5. Malik Newman - C, Expected a lot more out of the guard, but he's a SF in a PG body. Anthony Bowie much? Inconsistent pull up jumpers/3pt shots; perhaps it has to do with injury, but the initiator skills were completely lacking.

Free Agent Players

1. Lebron - A+
2. KCP (resign) B
3. Rondo - B
4. Stevenson - C
5. McGee - B


I didn’t mean to associate Bonga with anything but this current, solid backup version of Livingston. possible that he’s a super tall PG who can push tempo, make reads, not shoot so well (may shoot in some range decently).

And I gotta give Svi an A+
Wagner I have faith in & see valuable stretch 5 minutes with Lebron in the next 2 years. So I give that an A
Bonga I’ll reserve judgment and say C- , the GLeague will help him a lot year 1. So many reps and open style game
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:00 am    Post subject:

Interesting thread, good to see the various takes on these players.

Draft Picks:
Wagner: B Good hustle, so-so from outside, worry about handles against NBA defenders
Svi: A Far better all around game than expected, defense and offense, amazingly quick and accurate 3 ball
Bonga: D- One would swear he's never played organized ball in a setting where traveling is called

Free Agents:
LeBron: A+ pretty clear this changes the landscape for the Lakers
Rondo: B didn't like this at first, but Lonzo's surgery tells me this is a very smart move. Rondo can mentor Zo too.
McGee: B decent move if he's smart enough, too bad about the asthma
Lance: D I still don't understand this one, unless we need an expendable player to go after the likes of Winslow if teams get chippy with us.
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