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| Which Youngin' Do You Think is Most Likely to Break Out Next Year (to Actual/Borderline All-Star Levels)? |
| Lonzo Ball |
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13% |
[ 10 ] |
| Brandon Ingram |
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49% |
[ 36 ] |
| Kyle Kuzma |
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19% |
[ 14 ] |
| Josh Hart |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Ivica Zubac |
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1% |
[ 1 ] |
| None |
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16% |
[ 12 ] |
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| Total Votes : 73 |
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cal1piggy
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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
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 Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Judah wrote: | | JohnDoe wrote: | | Because of LeBron, I truly believe more than just one guy will take a huge step forward. |
This. |
yea i expect bi and kuz to take a step forward also.
just think most likely for lonzo to take the biggest step. |
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audioaxes
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 12573
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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I like the chances of Zubac really showing big strides. With Lebron here he can have much less pressure and focus on a smaller skillset... rebounding, defense, rolling to the basket for easy points. And with Mcgee being the only other traditional center on team only being able to play about 18mpg there will be alot of opportunity for him to get some good minutes in.
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(bleep) Kawhi |
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Jenn
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Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 828
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Lonzo. |
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29279
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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I still think Zubac has Nurkic-like upside.
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46638
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | I still think Zubac has Nurkic-like upside. |
With him being lean now, he should be able to grab rebounds at a higher rate maybe not Nurkic but a he can be what Asik was but better.. before he was doomed by injuries. |
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defense
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Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 39445
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Going with Zubac or Lonzo |
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ZenMaster4President
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Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 966
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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If Zo is the one who makes the biggest leap, or BI, or Kuzma -- we are in the WCF.
They were already good last season, a big leap (which is what it would take to have the biggest relative leap on a team with budding players like Hart, Mo, Svi, Zu) would mean that they are near All-Star level.
LeBron + another all-star (ability-wise) + another 5 - 6 solid players is WCF.
Chances are, however, that Zu is the biggest one. He starts the lowest. |
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cthroatgtr
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Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 1375
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Ingram - he will be knocking on the all star door next year. |
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adkindo
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Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:25 am Post subject: |
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in a recent Vecenie Game Theory podcast, Sam and Cole Zwicker evaluated our young prospects and ranked them....was a good listen.
If I recall, Vecenie ranked them...
1. Ingram
2. Ball
3. Kuzma
4. Josh Hart
5. Svi
6. Caruso
7. Wagner
8. Zubac
9. Bonga
and Zwicker had them...
1. Ball
2. Ingram
3. Kuzma
4. Josh Hart
5. Svi
6. Caruso
7. Wagner
8. Zubac
9. Bonga
They both pointed out Kuzma and Hart was pretty even. As you can see, they were pretty high on Svi and Caruso also....calling Svi a likely legit rotational player and Caruso can be a legit 3rd or 4th guard....and praised Caruso's defense. They also both agree that Kuzma likely has 20 PPG star role player type ceiling.
https://soundcloud.com/sam-vecenie/barrett-williamson-lakers#t=1:11:38 |
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23778
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| Interesting. Thanks for sharing, adkindo. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | in a recent Vecenie Game Theory podcast |
Just a passing comment -- It never ceases to amaze me how many podcasts have popped up with supposed "experts" with no resumes. Maybe this podcast is an exception, but the supply of talking head wannabes seems really out of control. I looked up Cole Zwicker out of curiosity. As best I can tell, he's a young lawyer who runs his mouth on podcasts. I looked up Sam Vecenie. As best I can tell, his qualifications are that he runs a popular podcast. A couple weeks ago, someone on this board was touting some guy who graded Ben Simmons as an F on offense. Supposedly the guy has been involved with five D-I programs. No one seemed to know exactly what his connection was, though.
There are some people who really do the work or who really have qualifications. But there are a lot more talking head wannabes. I suppose that this is the enduring legacy of Bill Simmons -- anyone with microphone and an opinion can be a commentator. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:19 am Post subject: |
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That is why the only way to evaluate these players is to watch them play. Let others profit off of their names.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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adkindo
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Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | in a recent Vecenie Game Theory podcast |
Just a passing comment -- It never ceases to amaze me how many podcasts have popped up with supposed "experts" with no resumes. Maybe this podcast is an exception, but the supply of talking head wannabes seems really out of control. I looked up Cole Zwicker out of curiosity. As best I can tell, he's a young lawyer who runs his mouth on podcasts. I looked up Sam Vecenie. As best I can tell, his qualifications are that he runs a popular podcast. A couple weeks ago, someone on this board was touting some guy who graded Ben Simmons as an F on offense. Supposedly the guy has been involved with five D-I programs. No one seemed to know exactly what his connection was, though.
There are some people who really do the work or who really have qualifications. But there are a lot more talking head wannabes. I suppose that this is the enduring legacy of Bill Simmons -- anyone with microphone and an opinion can be a commentator. |
Vecenie and Zwicker are my guys when it comes to anything draft/prospect related....which is anything from college players to the first three years in the NBA. Vecenie was with the CBS Sports, then Sporting News for a while which is where I began reading him.....now he is with The Athletic. The guy pretty much attends/covers every big high school/AAU prospect type events year round, as well as NCAA tournaments, NBA Summer League etc. He puts in the work. Zwicker is the primary voice (in my opinion) behind The Stepien, and it would be hard to find a more detailed analyst of all things related to NBA prospects.
In my opinion....Vecenie and Zwicker are well beyond the threshold of uninformed talking heads that pontificate and give hot takes. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | Vecenie and Zwicker are my guys when it comes to anything draft/prospect related....which is anything from college players to the first three years in the NBA. Vecenie was with the CBS Sports, then Sporting News for a while which is where I began reading him.....now he is with The Athletic. The guy pretty much attends/covers every big high school/AAU prospect type events year round, as well as NCAA tournaments, NBA Summer League etc. He puts in the work. Zwicker is the primary voice (in my opinion) behind The Stepien, and it would be hard to find a more detailed analyst of all things related to NBA prospects.
In my opinion....Vecenie and Zwicker are well beyond the threshold of uninformed talking heads that pontificate and give hot takes. |
Draft commentators are the BS bin of the sports media. Mel Kiper is the classic example of this. He had no resume at all, but hung around talking to scouts and front office people for so long that he actually started getting recognized as an expert on something. Basically, he was a hobbyist who turned it into a career.
Zwicker sounds like the same thing. Wow, he watches AAU games.
Vecenie is one of the "used to be" guys. He used to be with CBS Sports. That's nice, but no one leaves a paying job with a network so that they can run a podcast. There are lots and lots of guys who "used to be" with CBS or SI or Fox or ESPN.
Anyway, I don't mean to paint with an overly broad brush. There are plenty of podcasters and bloggers who stay within their resumes. But when I see some young (apparently former) lawyer from Seattle opining on the prospects of the young players on the Lakers, it sounds like a waste of bandwidth to me. You can get better insights from people on this board.
Anyway, this was just a passing comment from me. I really don't understand why people listen to so many podcasts. It must be a generational thing. Get off my grass. |
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cal1piggy
Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| ZenMaster4President wrote: | If Zo is the one who makes the biggest leap, or BI, or Kuzma -- we are in the WCF.
They were already good last season, a big leap (which is what it would take to have the biggest relative leap on a team with budding players like Hart, Mo, Svi, Zu) would mean that they are near All-Star level.
LeBron + another all-star (ability-wise) + another 5 - 6 solid players is WCF.
Chances are, however, that Zu is the biggest one. He starts the lowest. |
for a guard, lonzo already shows consistent all-star type play on defense, rebounding and passing.
it was his horrendous shooting and health that were holding him back.
his next step, if he takes it, would be better consistent shooting and health.
if he should take it, he would make a biggest impact unless bi suddenly turns into kawhi.
he would be a triple-double machine that would raise the level of everyone else's play. |
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adkindo
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Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | Vecenie and Zwicker are my guys when it comes to anything draft/prospect related....which is anything from college players to the first three years in the NBA. Vecenie was with the CBS Sports, then Sporting News for a while which is where I began reading him.....now he is with The Athletic. The guy pretty much attends/covers every big high school/AAU prospect type events year round, as well as NCAA tournaments, NBA Summer League etc. He puts in the work. Zwicker is the primary voice (in my opinion) behind The Stepien, and it would be hard to find a more detailed analyst of all things related to NBA prospects.
In my opinion....Vecenie and Zwicker are well beyond the threshold of uninformed talking heads that pontificate and give hot takes. |
Draft commentators are the BS bin of the sports media. Mel Kiper is the classic example of this. He had no resume at all, but hung around talking to scouts and front office people for so long that he actually started getting recognized as an expert on something. Basically, he was a hobbyist who turned it into a career.
Zwicker sounds like the same thing. Wow, he watches AAU games.
Vecenie is one of the "used to be" guys. He used to be with CBS Sports. That's nice, but no one leaves a paying job with a network so that they can run a podcast. There are lots and lots of guys who "used to be" with CBS or SI or Fox or ESPN.
Anyway, I don't mean to paint with an overly broad brush. There are plenty of podcasters and bloggers who stay within their resumes. But when I see some young (apparently former) lawyer from Seattle opining on the prospects of the young players on the Lakers, it sounds like a waste of bandwidth to me. You can get better insights from people on this board.
Anyway, this was just a passing comment from me. I really don't understand why people listen to so many podcasts. It must be a generational thing. Get off my grass. |
Your giving a lot of opinionated takes about individuals that you admittedly have never actually evaluated their work.....yeah, maybe it is a generational thing or something like that. I think most people that closely follow the draft have some level of respect for both guys....but to each their own. |
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Vancouver Fan
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Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 17740
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:08 am Post subject: |
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I'm hoping to see what Lonzo can do this year. My gut tells me Slim will have a good year playing next to Bron.
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greenfrog
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Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| Proabably Kuzma because he's more advanced off the ball. Zo too if can excel off cuts. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | Your giving a lot of opinionated takes about individuals that you admittedly have never actually evaluated their work.....yeah, maybe it is a generational thing or something like that. I think most people that closely follow the draft have some level of respect for both guys....but to each their own. |
I'm not evaluating their work. I'm evaluating their resumes. The internet has given us dozens, if not hundreds, of McPundits. So you like listening to them. Cool. But why should anyone give weight to anything they say? |
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2019
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Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10801
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| I think they all show improvement but I think BI and Kuz are both around 20ppg guys and Kuzma in particular continues to cement his status as of the best young players in the NBA while BI shows people how high his ceiling really is as an all around piece |
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epak
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Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:29 am Post subject: |
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If Lonzo's shot comes around, people are going to say Lonzo cuz they tend to ignore the other aspects of his game.
If Zubac gets minutes, I can see him being the most improved, considering what he's been the last 2 years.
I see BI and Kuz improving. But they're already pretty good, so their baseline is already higher. |
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h2omike
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 2811
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| I think BI and Kuzma are at that level, that if they do make significant improvements, they will jump to the level of being stars. |
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Annihilator
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Joined: 02 Jul 2001
Posts: 4035
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | If Lonzo's shot comes around, people are going to say Lonzo cuz they tend to ignore the other aspects of his game.
If Zubac gets minutes, I can see him being the most improved, considering what he's been the last 2 years.
I see BI and Kuz improving. But they're already pretty good, so their baseline is already higher. |
If Lonzo's shot comes around (and I mean large improvements not small improvements), the kid will be a star. For some reason--and I can't figure out why I think this except maybe that I am projecting my attitude towards his dad onto Lonzo--I don't think that Lonzo is self-aware enough to make the required changes. Once he does, he will be exceptional.
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textbook
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Posts: 2181
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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The beauty of this argument/post is that ALL 4 of our young guys can realistically have a break out year:
Lonzo: Already an amazing defender that avg 8 boards and 8 assists. Ridiculous instincts and passing skills with one more year under his belt. Lebron will find him on cuts to the basket. If he becomes more aggressive at the rim, watch out for some highlights. Not worried about shooting. Will come by 3-4 year.
Hart: Incredible end of the year and summer run with improved shooting and footwork. Built like a bull and can realistically have games next year where he can get you 30. If he were the only second year guy we had, he would be getting a lot more attention from this board and the media. Has the guts to take big shots.
Kuzma: The one guy who has demonstrated the "it" factor you find in the all time greats. The fire and passion needed to reach super star level. The work ethic and the curiosity to keep learning. The guy can flat out score and has an arsenal of moves (including hook shot) that will improve next year.
BI: almost 6 10 with 7 4 wingspan freak build and getting stronger. Has the skinny man strength with sharp elbows (hated playing against these guys). Can handle rock and score. I think he makes a huge jump defensively this year and actually starts blocking some shots. He has the length and the athleticism. I think the new added strength will take him to new levels defensively. He's a little gun shy on the 3's as the attempts dipped in his second year. Would love to see him fire some more up with confidence. Forget about his mechanics and play freely. I'm most excited to see BI next year. |
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RobinInHood
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Location: Stockholm
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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Very well put.  |
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