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cal1piggy
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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
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 Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Dumhead wrote: | This thread confuses me. What criteria?
Are we talking who they are as players in the present or who they "might" be in the future. If we are talking about the present... Randle and DLO are better than any of the guys that have yet to play in any meaningful NBA game. They are solid NBA players. At present, Randle should be toward the top of the list and I would argue was more impactful and better than Kuz and, at times, BI. At present, Zu is not solid NBA player (though I expect that to change). Ball is hard to rank because he does somethings so well.. and others really not well. Summer league does not provide a meaningful way to evaluate Josh Hart, Svi, Mo or anyone else who was contributing. It is a nice story which we can hope translates to the NBA. But there is not guarantee.
Or are we talking about value based on where they were picked? If so Kuz is at the top because he drafted lower than the other guys. |
value and skillset.
i put a lot on value.
for example, svi's pick could have been purchase or $.
in terms of skillset, i put on value on shoot and scoring.
athletic defenders like noel are easier to find than playmakers and scorers, imo. |
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Mamba Mentality
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Joined: 04 May 2017
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Location: The Left Coast
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Zu over Dlo 
And I didn't even care for Dlo as a player. |
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Sentient Meat
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Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | adkindo wrote: |
your kidding, right? |
Randle shot 40% in two seasons of Summer League and 12 PPG... and 4 RPG.
Svi's shooting 42% from three... had a 31 point break out game... averaging 18 points a game and he's only a rookie.
Agree it's premature... but the guy asked... so I'm answering. |
come on man....Randle has been producing against guys like Lebron James, Kevin Durant and Anthony Davis in recent years.....Svi has been producing against Scoochie and Sindarius. |
Randle is good... played great for us last year. But Svi has had a scorching Summer League and Randle's was pretty underwhelming. Plus he got hurt his first year and had a terrible second year.
Do I believe Svi's first two years will be better than Randle's?
Yes, if he can crack the lineup regularly.
But yes it's early... and I'm not trolling Julius fans. It does remain to be seen if Svi can play at Randle's level in his fourth season. But going by Summer League and from watching Randle's Summer League... then by handicapping play according to draft position.
I don't think it's unfair to say Svi ranks higher in this particular game. |
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governator
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Posts: 25092
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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as of today?
1. BI
2. Kuz
3. Ball
4. Randle
5. Hart
6. JC
7. DLo
8. Nance
9. Mo
10. Svi
11. Zubac
12. T.Bryant
Bonga
A.Brown |
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CamReddish
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Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 7919
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | as of today?
1. BI
2. Kuz
3. Ball
4. Randle
5. Hart
6. JC
7. DLo
8. Nance
9. Mo
10. Svi
11. Zubac
12. T.Bryant
Bonga
A.Brown |
This I can get with
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Previously LBJ23 |
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Bonga hit a three in summer league. Immediately better than Brown. |
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Dumhead
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| cal1piggy wrote: | | Dumhead wrote: | This thread confuses me. What criteria?
Are we talking who they are as players in the present or who they "might" be in the future. If we are talking about the present... Randle and DLO are better than any of the guys that have yet to play in any meaningful NBA game. They are solid NBA players. At present, Randle should be toward the top of the list and I would argue was more impactful and better than Kuz and, at times, BI. At present, Zu is not solid NBA player (though I expect that to change). Ball is hard to rank because he does somethings so well.. and others really not well. Summer league does not provide a meaningful way to evaluate Josh Hart, Svi, Mo or anyone else who was contributing. It is a nice story which we can hope translates to the NBA. But there is not guarantee.
Or are we talking about value based on where they were picked? If so Kuz is at the top because he drafted lower than the other guys. |
value and skillset.
i put a lot on value.
for example, svi's pick could have been purchase or $.
in terms of skillset, i put on value on shoot and scoring.
athletic defenders like noel are easier to find than playmakers and scorers, imo. |
If it is about value and skillset... still hard to imagine Zu ranked above anyone. At best he's in the "too early to tell" category. Mo and Svi should be there too, because haven't seen anything from them against real NBA competition. Against NBA competition, you can at least have some sample size for Hart. And if you consider value by draft position, sure... Hart is a better value than Ball. But Ball still had the better year and is likely the better player and has the better skillset.
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cal1piggy
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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | I'd flip BI and Hart, based on your criteria.
Also, DLO was a good choice insofar that it wasn't friggin' Okafor. |
i put bi over hart because i think bi will be a star.
i think hart will be a good starter.
the difference between a good starter and a star overwhelms the 28 slots in draft position.
obviously by now, i only think kuz and bi will likely be stars here.
i still give ball an even shot at being a very very good player.
especially after the way he played after returning from injury.
the biggest issue regarding ball is injury-prone.
dlo is not okafor so it was not a disaster.
but i do think it was a bad pick and why i rated him so low for the 2nd pick.
so extra bad grade in the bad decision because we did not listen to the scouts and picked porzingis |
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Nets fans thinking we want DLO back and wondering if they won the Kuzma trade have more to worry about now. Knox, Porzingis, Robinson, and Frankie Smokes are going to make Brooklyn obsolete real soon.
I would place DLO 6th after:
BI
Kuz
Ball
Randle
Hart |
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2017 Summer League Champs
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Mamba Mentality wrote: | Zu over Dlo
And I didn't even care for Dlo as a player. |
Funny how people can see things so differently. Imo Zubac is a good value as a second rounder while DLO was a terrible value as the #2 overall. I don't even think it's close. |
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cal1piggy
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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Dumhead wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Dumhead wrote: | This thread confuses me. What criteria?
Are we talking who they are as players in the present or who they "might" be in the future. If we are talking about the present... Randle and DLO are better than any of the guys that have yet to play in any meaningful NBA game. They are solid NBA players. At present, Randle should be toward the top of the list and I would argue was more impactful and better than Kuz and, at times, BI. At present, Zu is not solid NBA player (though I expect that to change). Ball is hard to rank because he does somethings so well.. and others really not well. Summer league does not provide a meaningful way to evaluate Josh Hart, Svi, Mo or anyone else who was contributing. It is a nice story which we can hope translates to the NBA. But there is not guarantee.
Or are we talking about value based on where they were picked? If so Kuz is at the top because he drafted lower than the other guys. |
value and skillset.
i put a lot on value.
for example, svi's pick could have been purchase or $.
in terms of skillset, i put on value on shoot and scoring.
athletic defenders like noel are easier to find than playmakers and scorers, imo. |
If it is about value and skillset... still hard to imagine Zu ranked above anyone. At best he's in the "too early to tell" category. Mo and Svi should be there too, because haven't seen anything from them against real NBA competition. Against NBA competition, you can at least have some sample size for Hart. And if you consider value by draft position, sure... Hart is a better value than Ball. But Ball still had the better year and is likely the better player and has the better skillset. |
i forgot about mo.
mo is a real projection because he would have to show he can shoot from distance, and i am not quite convinced of that.
he does seem to shoot better than zu though.
so there is hope here.
i think we have seen enough that svi is a rotational talent already.
that makes svi is great pick at 47.
and it is a rare skill set with the ability to shoot even on the move.
the difference in draft position overwhelm ball's better year to me.
also it seems hart has learned new skills this summer while ball will be rehabbing from an injury that makes him look injury prone. |
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cal1piggy
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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: | | Mamba Mentality wrote: | Zu over Dlo
And I didn't even care for Dlo as a player. |
Funny how people can see things so differently. Imo Zubac is a good value as a second rounder while DLO was a terrible value as the #2 overall. I don't even think it's close. |
that is exactly how i see it.
i see zubac as good value while i thought dlo was a bad pick. |
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Sentient Meat
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Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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The way to approach this... is what player would you take again at #2... at #7... at #27... at #30 ...at #47... and what player do you regret taking at their respective positions?
I don't think anyone regrets taking Svi at #47, Kuzma at #27... Hart at #30... On the other hand maybe some regret not taking Jokic at #7... or taking Ball over Tatum.... or DLO over Porzingis.
It's a weird game that wasn't clearly explained... but draft placement is part of the equation. Many here are just posting lists according to outright quality without respect to where they were drafted... which is fine, but a different game. |
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kikanga
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Posts: 29337
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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LG was due for a summer league overreaction thread.
Haven't seen enough of Svi to rate him accurately.
And I'm very impressed with Hart. But I have to see if his steps forward over this offseason carry into the regular season.
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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cal1piggy
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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | The way to approach this... is what player would you take again at #2... at #7... at #27... at #30 ...at #47... and what player do you regret taking at their respective positions?
I don't think anyone regrets taking Svi at #47, Kuzma at #27... Hart at #30... On the other hand maybe some regret not taking Jokic at #7... or taking Ball over Tatum.... or DLO over Porzingis.
It's a weird game that wasn't clearly explained... but draft placement is part of the equation. Many here are just posting lists according to outright quality without respect to where they were drafted... which is fine, but a different game. |
yea i went back to edit the opening post to make clear draft position mattered. |
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cal1piggy
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LakersRGolden
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Posts: 7924
Location: Lake Forest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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Taking draft position into account:
---- Exceeds draft position
1) Kuzma
2) Hart
3) Nance
4) Randle
5) JC
---- Meets draft position
6) BI
7) Zu
8) Bryant
---- Below draft position at the moment
9) Ball - Needs some time, showing injury concerns
10) Dlo due to injuries. Meets when healthy
---- WTH?
11) Brown |
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Sentient Meat
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Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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This is a good introduction for those who didn't watch all of Summer League.
Clever player, deceptively athletic, and boy can he shoot... |
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Mamba Mentality
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Joined: 04 May 2017
Posts: 3078
Location: The Left Coast
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| cal1piggy wrote: | | 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: | | Mamba Mentality wrote: | Zu over Dlo
And I didn't even care for Dlo as a player. |
Funny how people can see things so differently. Imo Zubac is a good value as a second rounder while DLO was a terrible value as the #2 overall. I don't even think it's close. |
that is exactly how i see it.
i see zubac as good value while i thought dlo was a bad pick. |
Great point on the value part. I was referring to overall talent between the two. |
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kawhileonard
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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Realistically, DLO is the best offensive prospect we've had since Kobe Bryant (unless we be counting Bynum)
You can slate him for being injury prone and maybe lackluster on D, but DLO's offensive game is beautiful.
If anyone that watches soccer, DLO is exactly the same as JAMES Rodriguez. |
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Mamba Mentality
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Location: The Left Coast
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I disagree. I feel BI and Kuz are better offensive prospects. |
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cal1piggy
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Posts: 2584
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Mamba Mentality wrote: | | I disagree. I feel BI and Kuz are better offensive prospects. |
yep, both bi and kuz are more sure bets for offensive stars.
dlo has various issues including health
ball has health issues but does have better passing and d over dlo.
he also needs a better pull-up/teardrop and consistent 3p%.
if he shoots better, he would be a big star.
he needs better ft% but that should probably solvable. |
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| kawhileonard wrote: | Realistically, DLO is the best offensive prospect we've had since Kobe Bryant (unless we be counting Bynum)
You can slate him for being injury prone and maybe lackluster on D, but DLO's offensive game is beautiful.
If anyone that watches soccer, DLO is exactly the same as JAMES Rodriguez. |
And if the Lakers could have put him on loan instead of trading him I'm sure they would have done that very same thing. |
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defense
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Posts: 39536
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| I like all our current young players. That's all I have to say about that. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Ranking our draft picks of the 'young core' |
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| cal1piggy wrote: | Here is my list of our best picks based on performance and draft position. This is not meant to be a list of who is the best player currently.
1. kuz
2. bi (mitch)
3. hart
4. ball
5. svi
6. randle (mitch)
7. zu (mitch)
8. dlo (mitch)
too hard to rate:
1. bonga
2. tbryant |
I think it's way too early to start ranking these guys. |
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