Are the Lakers Wasting a Year of LBJ's "Prime?"
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Are the Lakers Wasting a Year of LBJ's Prime?
Yes. We should have traded for another all-star and/or veteran players. Can't waste LBJ's final prime years.
10%
 10%  [ 17 ]
No. Part of the process is to be patient and assess our young core with LBJ. He signed a 4 year deal for a reason.
89%
 89%  [ 152 ]
Total Votes : 169

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adkindo
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:45 am    Post subject:

PRLakeShow wrote:
I'm not a fan of the poll answers. I can believe we're wasting a year of his prime by answering 'Yes' yet disagree with the remaining sentences of the poll option.

Same applies for 'No' and the sentences that follow.


right....not trying to criticize yinoma, but the question in the Lounge almost feels like a bait and switch to the explanations in the thread. I clicked on thread thinking "yes"....but then I read "yes" explained, and did not agree with "yes"....
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:46 am    Post subject:

I disagree with the way you phrased the choices. The answer is clearly Yes, but I don't agree with the commentary in the answer.

Lebron is a declining asset. We just signed him to a four year deal for a big chunk of our cap space. Now we are kicking the can down the street for a year. Despite the Kool-Aid addled optimism in some of these posts, the current roster will not contend unless the other major teams are riddled by injuries or unless one of the kids blossoms beyond all reasonable expectations. So yes, we are wasting a year.

This does not mean that we should have done the things that you stuck into the answer. But it does mean that we are wasting a year of Lebron by kicking the can down the street.

For that matter, Lebron's prime probably ended several years ago. Last year may have been something of an Indian summer. If so, we may be in for a rough ride. That depressing possibility is a subject for another thread.

On the subject of this thread, it may not matter whether we manage to sign a big name free agent next summer. Lebron's window may be shut, or rapidly closing, by that time. The risk of a major injury rises rapidly with age. Ask Kobe about that. There is a possibility that we will end up with the bulk of our cap space devoted to a fading Lebron and to someone like Jimmy Butler. That is a possibility that you should find disturbing. Rather than chasing titles, we could wind up in the purgatory of a 4-8 seed.

If we wanted to maximize Lebron, we needed to do it this year. It is possible that he will maintain his level for another couple years -- he has already exceeded any reasonable expectations concerning durability. However, if you were going place a wager today, how much money would you risk on the proposition that Lebron will remain at an elite level for four years?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:49 am    Post subject:

Not a waste. But I am pretty surprised they have not made an all in win now trade yet. Although they still have time if they choose to.

I am thrilled they have been patient and James seems to be on board with this path. Develop the young players and roster chemistry then re-assess next summer is by far my preference.

IMO at least a couple of the young core will surprise us by emerging as major contributors.

I am torn on the amount of one year deals though. Roster turnover is still going to be an issue next off-season too.

In the end I think James has a couple more years to play at a high level. (not the 3-4 some keep suggestions). IMO the goal should not be to keep building around James. It should be to find the "next" marquee player or players that James can support as he declines.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:49 am    Post subject:

No the only player that would have made a difference was Kawhi and the spurs asked for hart, Kuz, Ingram and two first round picks. I don’t see how they could have put a championship caliber team around them after that

Kawhi
Lebron
Deng
Mo
Svi
Randle (possibly)
Lopez
Ball
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:51 am    Post subject:

Waste is a strong word. There are a lot of angles to look at:

1. The league believes you aren't beating the Warriors this year. That doesn't mean you fold, but if you were ever going to have a season to develop young talent into reachable dreams of being stars...you have you stars on the cheap.

2. James sees how rich the Lakers situation really is. The young talent of Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, Hart and maybe others is currency. The talking heads and media doesn't get this or doesn't want this to affect their agenda.
James isn't an idiot, he's on a team that has assets. We shouldn't dread this, but at any point James has the freedom of tugging Magic & Pelinka's ear and pulling the line Kobe said about Bynum...and they'll do it. Having those stars/talented players on the cheap, you have the max slot next year. We've been over this.

3. LBJ took a less talented team to the finals. I understand the East is weak, but he literally carried a team on his back that had less talent. Maybe more important than having more talent than last year is having a team that actually WANTS to do the things needed to complement him. He had the bad taste of even vets standing around not playing help D, and he sees young guys the Luke has doing just that.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:51 am    Post subject:

Thanks for the feedback. Making a poll is tough and especially this topic. I see what folks are saying but I can't change the poll now.

My main aim is to make it simple b/c I think there are generally 2 camps here:

1. yes we are wasting a year: if you sign LBJ, you have to go all in.
2. no we are not. I guess my phrasing for the 2nd one is not the greatest. I guess objectively, of course, we are losing a year of his prime. But I wanted to capture the mindset that we aren't wasting the year b/c we are using it to essentially prep for a 2019 title run while conceding this year.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:53 am    Post subject:

yinoma's poll's are more difficult the understand than a Post Grad Quantum Mechanics textbook?

--Yes

--No


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:54 am    Post subject:

I think the Lakers may actually have lengthened him "prime" by a year or two based on the fact that his MPG and overall workload should drop significantly from what he had to do in Cleveland. Since he's not expected to make the Finals or be a #1 seed he doesn't have the pressure to play insane amount of minutes throughout the season and especially in the playoffs.

Perhaps this year even rejuvenates him for a strong run in the following 3 seasons. Maybe I'm just being too optimistic
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:03 am    Post subject:

Yes we are. Whether or not he's aware of it is irrelevant.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:08 am    Post subject:

fansincemagic wrote:
2. James sees how rich the Lakers situation really is. The young talent of Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, Hart and maybe others is currency. The talking heads and media doesn't get this or doesn't want this to affect their agenda.
James isn't an idiot, he's on a team that has assets. We shouldn't dread this, but at any point James has the freedom of tugging Magic & Pelinka's ear and pulling the line Kobe said about Bynum...and they'll do it. Having those stars/talented players on the cheap, you have the max slot next year. We've been over this.


Is that really true? I think probably not. It was reported that Lebron was working first and foremost to get guys to come to Cleveland. That didn’t work. Then he looked long and hard at options like Houston and Philadelphia. That didn’t work. Then he picked LA for business and family reasons. I don’t think he came here because of our young assets.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:10 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
fansincemagic wrote:
2. James sees how rich the Lakers situation really is. The young talent of Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, Hart and maybe others is currency. The talking heads and media doesn't get this or doesn't want this to affect their agenda.
James isn't an idiot, he's on a team that has assets. We shouldn't dread this, but at any point James has the freedom of tugging Magic & Pelinka's ear and pulling the line Kobe said about Bynum...and they'll do it. Having those stars/talented players on the cheap, you have the max slot next year. We've been over this.


Is that really true? I think probably not. It was reported that Lebron was working first and foremost to get guys to come to Cleveland. That didn’t work. Then he looked long and hard at options like Houston and Philadelphia. That didn’t work. Then he picked LA for business and family reasons. I don’t think he came here because of our young assets.


No doubt it was a combination of many factors including LA as a location. But I do think he's giving the young guys a try this season, but make no mistake, come 2019, if they're not pulling their weight they will be trade assets. Heck, could be the case by 12/15 or the trade deadline. So we had a cap situation to give us another max slot in 2019 and a bunch of young tradeable pieces.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:11 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Thanks for the feedback. Making a poll is tough and especially this topic. I see what folks are saying but I can't change the poll now.

My main aim is to make it simple b/c I think there are generally 2 camps here:

1. yes we are wasting a year: if you sign LBJ, you have to go all in.
2. no we are not. I guess my phrasing for the 2nd one is not the greatest. I guess objectively, of course, we are losing a year of his prime. But I wanted to capture the mindset that we aren't wasting the year b/c we are using it to essentially prep for a 2019 title run while conceding this year.


“Yes” and “No” are simple. What you found out is that a lot of people do not fall into the categories you perceived.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:14 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
fansincemagic wrote:
2. James sees how rich the Lakers situation really is. The young talent of Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, Hart and maybe others is currency. The talking heads and media doesn't get this or doesn't want this to affect their agenda.
James isn't an idiot, he's on a team that has assets. We shouldn't dread this, but at any point James has the freedom of tugging Magic & Pelinka's ear and pulling the line Kobe said about Bynum...and they'll do it. Having those stars/talented players on the cheap, you have the max slot next year. We've been over this.


Is that really true? I think probably not. It was reported that Lebron was working first and foremost to get guys to come to Cleveland. That didn’t work. Then he looked long and hard at options like Houston and Philadelphia. That didn’t work. Then he picked LA for business and family reasons. I don’t think he came here because of our young assets.


Yes it's absolutely true, I think your mistake is that you're trying to read my reply as currency being the main reason he came. Seeing the youth as currency (either to grow into stars or trade in the right deal) is a point in defense against the actual topic... the "wasted" year theory. I try to keep things in context.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:16 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Thanks for the feedback. Making a poll is tough and especially this topic. I see what folks are saying but I can't change the poll now.

My main aim is to make it simple b/c I think there are generally 2 camps here:

1. yes we are wasting a year: if you sign LBJ, you have to go all in.
2. no we are not. I guess my phrasing for the 2nd one is not the greatest. I guess objectively, of course, we are losing a year of his prime. But I wanted to capture the mindset that we aren't wasting the year b/c we are using it to essentially prep for a 2019 title run while conceding this year.


“Yes” and “No” are simple. What you found out is that a lot of people do not fall into the categories you perceived.


True. You can have infinite sub categories emanating from the binary poll choice.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:17 am    Post subject:

WindyCityLakerFan wrote:
No the only player that would have made a difference was Kawhi and the spurs asked for hart, Kuz, Ingram and two first round picks. I don’t see how they could have put a championship caliber team around them after that

Kawhi
Lebron
Deng
Mo
Svi
Randle (possibly)
Lopez
Ball


Would agree with you if we are discussing 2016 Kawhi. A difference maker.

Sorry, but 2018 Leonard is a player we know next to nothing about. We have no clue if he can ever return to previous levels or return to the court in a consistent manner.

I agree that the trade was ridiculous but until Leonard proves himself on the court this season (all season) he is just a guy that used to be pretty damn good. I hope he returns to 2016 levels and the Lakers sign him but not assuming he will and dismissing the past year.

I'm hoping that Ingram, Ball and perhaps Kuzma and Hart can be the difference makers that allow James to reduce mpg anfd efforts. As they thrive he can take on an important support role over the course of the season.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:23 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
fansincemagic wrote:
2. James sees how rich the Lakers situation really is. The young talent of Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, Hart and maybe others is currency. The talking heads and media doesn't get this or doesn't want this to affect their agenda.
James isn't an idiot, he's on a team that has assets. We shouldn't dread this, but at any point James has the freedom of tugging Magic & Pelinka's ear and pulling the line Kobe said about Bynum...and they'll do it. Having those stars/talented players on the cheap, you have the max slot next year. We've been over this.


Is that really true? I think probably not. It was reported that Lebron was working first and foremost to get guys to come to Cleveland. That didn’t work. Then he looked long and hard at options like Houston and Philadelphia. That didn’t work. Then he picked LA for business and family reasons. I don’t think he came here because of our young assets.


No doubt it was a combination of many factors including LA as a location. But I do think he's giving the young guys a try this season, but make no mistake, come 2019, if they're not pulling their weight they will be trade assets. Heck, could be the case by 12/15 or the trade deadline. So we had a cap situation to give us another max slot in 2019 and a bunch of young tradeable pieces.


The problem with this is that their value as trade assets diminishes over time if they do not blossom. That’s a subject for a different thread, but let’s focus on Ingram in particular. If he blossoms this year, great. If he plateaus, or if he just makes a modest improvement, then next summer he will be entering the fourth year of his rookie contract. He will still have value as a player, but he will have lost the premium that comes with being a high ceiling prospect. We need to cross our fingers that Magic has correctly assessed the chances that Ingram will blossom.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:25 am    Post subject:

I voted no for the reason that is I don't think any move would of have made a difference going up against the juggernaut that is the GSW this upcoming season.

This year is about getting into the play-offs and seeing how the young pups perform, we've seen how other young players performed on the biggest stage this past season. Based on this they'll be looking to move forward with those who showed they can perform at the highest level.

Next year also means the GSW may end up losing a Klay or KD, if that happens they're vulnerable. Lakers with another star will be right there in the discussion for a championship.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:27 am    Post subject:

KobeDunk wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
KobeDunk wrote:
yes they are. he's going to be 34, we don't have time to wait and hope Kahwi comes next summer. If we got Lebron we should be all in to win NOW


It isn’t about that, it is about us getting Lebron. Magic never promised titles, just names. Time for the cigars and cognac.


Well Lebron will bring a huge marketing jump and make sure the seats at staples are full every game. Are you saying this is kind of like Kobe's last contract? Make sure there is a buzz around the team with no real expectations to win? You may not be all that off, but why would Lebron want this? I'm sure he still has ambitions to win more rings and catch at least Kobe if not Jordan.


I am just saying that Magic promised a big name FA or he would walk. It was reported and discussed here.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:28 am    Post subject:

we have the best player in the league and everyone’s almost certain we won’t make the finals... 11 months before. tell me how its not a waste?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:32 am    Post subject:

KobeDunk wrote:
vkewalra wrote:
koy That anybody has answered yes to this poll but to somebody who does I’d like to hear:
What moves they could have made this summer that would made the Lakers a favorite over the Warriors this year.
What those moves would have cost to our length of contention timetable

Maybe we could have traded multiple young players and picks for one year of Kawhi and a more likely chance he’d end up here longterm, but would that have even made us the favorites offer the Warriors? After that every year Kawhi and Lebron move down the slope away from their prime while we have fewer players working their way toward their prime years.

Assuming we end up with Kawhi or some compatible, worth the money max player next summer plus Lebron and the rookie contract kids every year after that has a chance for improvement.


Kawhi is 27, he's not moving down any slope any time soon.
He would be the perfect player to take over for Lebron when he start declining.


True he's still 27, but he also hasn't played in a year and has an injury that's taken longer than typical to heal. So a potentially busted Kawhi, a 33yo Lebron, minus all the players that the Spurs wanted for Kawhi, that beats the Warriors? That team gets better each year versus the Warriors starters / stars at age 28, 28, 29, 30?

The Warriors have changed the way every competent team operates, they probably have another 4 years of being favorites to win the title. Our best bet is to wait and maybe get a somewhat better mid-season trade from the Raptors or wait until next summer, hoping the kids all get better and Lebron +max2 and them can challenge.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:50 am    Post subject:

KobeDunk wrote:
vkewalra wrote:
koy That anybody has answered yes to this poll but to somebody who does I’d like to hear:
What moves they could have made this summer that would made the Lakers a favorite over the Warriors this year.
What those moves would have cost to our length of contention timetable

Maybe we could have traded multiple young players and picks for one year of Kawhi and a more likely chance he’d end up here longterm, but would that have even made us the favorites offer the Warriors? After that every year Kawhi and Lebron move down the slope away from their prime while we have fewer players working their way toward their prime years.

Assuming we end up with Kawhi or some compatible, worth the money max player next summer plus Lebron and the rookie contract kids every year after that has a chance for improvement.


Kawhi is 27, he's not moving down any slope any time soon.
He would be the perfect player to take over for Lebron when he start declining.


You are assuming he will return to previous elite levels. Why?

For examples, D. Rose, B. Roy and Y. Ming were all elite players that plunged at 27/28 years old due to injuries.

IMO it is a hell of a risk to assume he can be "that player" until he proves it this season. Risking multiple valuable assets and the strong assumption of a max contract on a potentially declining player is a risk I continue to hope they don't take.

A proven healthy Leonard can be signed next season. This season is should be a prep year for players (young and old) to earn playing time together, playoff experience and contracts for a deeper run in James last couple year. Contending during a JFT is the goal.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:51 am    Post subject:

The Young core could very well be the reason LeBron’s game stays at a high level.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:55 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
The Young core could very well be the reason LeBron’s game stays at a high level.


This and I also believe Kawai will be a Laker at the trade deadline. The first half of the season will hep the young guys grow, mesh with Lebron and gain valuable experience and the second half will set us up for a nice playoff run just like when we added Pau.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:03 am    Post subject:

PengShow wrote:
I voted no for the reason that is I don't think any move would of have made a difference going up against the juggernaut that is the GSW this upcoming season.


Yup, I think this team would be a title contender if not for the Warriors, but they weren't going from missing the playoffs to being better than maybe the best team ever in one off-season. And if you consider the year a waste if LeBron doesn't win the championship, then his year would've been wasted no matter what (unless he signed with GS).
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:15 am    Post subject:

I have a foot in both camps. I like the idea of keeping many of the kids (although I know that is temporary, as you can see with Randle) since I’ve come to enjoy watching a team grow together. But I also understand going after the big fish and what that ultimately takes. I think the Lakers might actually pull off the hybrid move if the Kawhi rumors are true, but they are certainly pushing the build back a year by waiting on him, and do run the risk of getting Paul Georged in a year. And make no mistake, they wanted him enough to visibly tamper, and then made a series of mistakes to lose him. Ultimately, I’m with Jerry West. When you have the shot, you maximize it. You don’t hedge.
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