Are the Lakers Wasting a Year of LBJ's "Prime?"
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Are the Lakers Wasting a Year of LBJ's Prime?
Yes. We should have traded for another all-star and/or veteran players. Can't waste LBJ's final prime years.
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No. Part of the process is to be patient and assess our young core with LBJ. He signed a 4 year deal for a reason.
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fansincemagic
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:16 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
fansincemagic wrote:
2. James sees how rich the Lakers situation really is. The young talent of Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, Hart and maybe others is currency. The talking heads and media doesn't get this or doesn't want this to affect their agenda.
James isn't an idiot, he's on a team that has assets. We shouldn't dread this, but at any point James has the freedom of tugging Magic & Pelinka's ear and pulling the line Kobe said about Bynum...and they'll do it. Having those stars/talented players on the cheap, you have the max slot next year. We've been over this.


Is that really true? I think probably not. It was reported that Lebron was working first and foremost to get guys to come to Cleveland. That didn’t work. Then he looked long and hard at options like Houston and Philadelphia. That didn’t work. Then he picked LA for business and family reasons. I don’t think he came here because of our young assets.


No doubt it was a combination of many factors including LA as a location. But I do think he's giving the young guys a try this season, but make no mistake, come 2019, if they're not pulling their weight they will be trade assets. Heck, could be the case by 12/15 or the trade deadline. So we had a cap situation to give us another max slot in 2019 and a bunch of young tradeable pieces.


The problem with this is that their value as trade assets diminishes over time if they do not blossom. That’s a subject for a different thread, but let’s focus on Ingram in particular. If he blossoms this year, great. If he plateaus, or if he just makes a modest improvement, then next summer he will be entering the fourth year of his rookie contract. He will still have value as a player, but he will have lost the premium that comes with being a high ceiling prospect. We need to cross our fingers that Magic has correctly assessed the chances that Ingram will blossom.


There is no problem, you're just not seeing the comparison in assets. Regardless of Ingram, Kuzma, Ball, Hart or Wagner hitting what you'd consider consider a wall/plateau...they still have youth and a cheap contact on their side.

My point is, LBJ has already left situations where a teams assets were tapped out, and regardless of LA's young guys losing value...it doesn't change my point of them being very useful even in another GM's eyes.
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Barry Seal
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:31 am    Post subject:

How many accounts does Brian Windhorst have? I find it hilarious that Lebron has gone from the CLEAR best player in the world a few months ago to being in severe decline, doesn't care about winning and a scrub as each day passes that hes Laker.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:40 am    Post subject:

Lebron isn't in his prime.
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audioaxes
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:44 am    Post subject:

we are but there's not much in we could have controlled to do any better. We couldnt force PG13 to sign with us or the Spurs to trade with us.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:55 am    Post subject:

Terrible poll construction. The poll defines too-narrowed yes and no answers, so I didn't vote. The condition of him being in his "prime" career in the poll question also makes answers impossibly incomplete.

I see little value in trying to judge "waste" in this contract today, least in terms of wasting LeBron's remaining career.

I think that the results of year one with him on board can help us re-frame the dialogue about this in a meaningful sense. For example, if LeBron were to deliver the Lakers into the WCF (or better), it'd be pretty weird to assert that the Lakers wasted his time here - or their time with him - whether or not the season would be said to be part of LeBron's prime period.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:56 am    Post subject:

Barry Seal wrote:
How many accounts does Brian Windhorst have? I find it hilarious that Lebron has gone from the CLEAR best player in the world a few months ago to being in severe decline, doesn't care about winning and a scrub as each day passes that hes Laker.


I think people are underestimating LeBron, he’s gonna prove them wrong like he always does.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:56 am    Post subject:

Vancouver Fan wrote:
Lebron isn't in his prime.


He isn't in his prime, but I'd say he's about equal to prime Karl Malone and in that kind of shape too. Malone was pretty effective even at age 40 on the Lakers, so I'm looking forward to Lebron taking steps back over the years as Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, Hart, etc get better.
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BadGuy
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:59 am    Post subject:

He's getting paid 100M+ to play basketball for the Lakers. He did not take a paycut, nor has he won anything here. The Lakers don't owe LeBron anything.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:08 am    Post subject:

BadGuy wrote:
He's getting paid 100M+ to play basketball for the Lakers. He did not take a paycut, nor has he won anything here. The Lakers don't owe LeBron anything.

The conversation really isn't about owing him anything, rather how does Lakers management maximize the time they have left of his abilities and health. Do they make aggressive moves now a la trading CLE and KLove or giving it 1 year and waiting for next summer.

But if somebody wants to talk money, Planet Money had a great episode: Lebron James is Still Underpaid. Which talks about his effect on the value of a team.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject:

No. Even if they went “All-In” and they traded all or most of the young core, they would look like the Cavs or Melo Knicks in 2 years.

Just wait one year and have most of your young core still here when you anticipate contending the next half decade+
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:28 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
No. Even if they went “All-In” and they traded all or most of the young core, they would look like the Cavs or Melo Knicks in 2 years.

Just wait one year and have most of your young core still here when you anticipate contending the next half decade+


Not many are arguing against your statement...but your explanation is not support for your answer. As a binary option, any year that we do not put the highest level of talent possible, or at least talent that can reasonably contend for a championship that season around Lebron, who has finite years of championship level play remaining, it is a waste of part of that finite time frame. Even as that is the case, it seems the majority of us, and the Lakers FO feel it is in the Lakers best interest as an organization to likely "waste" that year in exchange for a deeper roster and longer competitive window with the current assets accumulated.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:29 am    Post subject:

vkewalra wrote:
BadGuy wrote:
He's getting paid 100M+ to play basketball for the Lakers. He did not take a paycut, nor has he won anything here. The Lakers don't owe LeBron anything.

The conversation really isn't about owing him anything, rather how does Lakers management maximize the time they have left of his abilities and health. Do they make aggressive moves now a la trading CLE and KLove or giving it 1 year and waiting for next summer.

But if somebody wants to talk money, Planet Money had a great episode: Lebron James is Still Underpaid. Which talks about his effect on the value of a team.


The Lakers were valued at $3.3 billion before Lebron, doubtful that has changed much.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: Are the Lakers Wasting a Year of LBJ's "Prime?"

yinoma2001 wrote:
Personally for me, no. I think they are wisely going to assess the young core and see which of them fit with LBJ. The team didn't trade out young pieces for a win-now veteran, and I'm ok with that because I don't think that would have made us beat the Warriors. In the long run, we will need 2-3 all star level players AND the young core (which will still be on rookie deals) to have the depth to take down the Warriors.

However, it is fair to say that LBJ has a finite number of "prime" (pretty crazy that it's still there at age 33 though it's not at his peak obviously) years and we are using one of the last few ones to assess the team and stock it with a bunch of 1 year deals.



You're assuming the team will be the same at the end of the year as the start of the year. For all we know, they'll make a big trade for Leonard or someone else mid season.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: Are the Lakers Wasting a Year of LBJ's "Prime?"

activeverb wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Personally for me, no. I think they are wisely going to assess the young core and see which of them fit with LBJ. The team didn't trade out young pieces for a win-now veteran, and I'm ok with that because I don't think that would have made us beat the Warriors. In the long run, we will need 2-3 all star level players AND the young core (which will still be on rookie deals) to have the depth to take down the Warriors.

However, it is fair to say that LBJ has a finite number of "prime" (pretty crazy that it's still there at age 33 though it's not at his peak obviously) years and we are using one of the last few ones to assess the team and stock it with a bunch of 1 year deals.



You're assuming the team will be the same at the end of the year as the start of the year. For all we know, they'll make a big trade for Leonard or someone else mid season.


That's certainly a possibility or not. It'll be interesting to see what they learned from the PG13 experience.
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lakerican
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:59 am    Post subject:

WindyCityLakerFan wrote:
No the only player that would have made a difference was Kawhi and the spurs asked for hart, Kuz, Ingram and two first round picks. I don’t see how they could have put a championship caliber team around them after that

Kawhi
Lebron
Deng
Mo
Svi
Randle (possibly)
Lopez
Ball


This team will have been in danger of not making the playoffs, just saying.
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diando
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:09 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
He's not here to win

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:10 am    Post subject:

KobeDunk wrote:
yes they are. he's going to be 34, we don't have time to wait and hope Kahwi comes next summer. If we got Lebron we should be all in to win NOW

History has lessons that we can learn from. PG isn't the only example of how to handle a trade. Do you think the Knicks would trade a large part of their talent for Melo less than 5 months before he would have come voluntarily? Do you think they didn't wish afterward that they had more quality assets to put around him after the trade. They failed to make the playoffs after that and hopes of signing good players around him never brought the right ones.

LeBron's time isn't being wasted. He has:
1) At least 3 eammates who can beat opponents by driving to the rim, which is more than Cleveland ever had

2) Versatile shooting sg, sf, and pf...guys who don't have to pass if defense takes away the 3 pt shot

3) Long, capable, smart defenders at every position.

Unfortunately, Cleveland had more physicality now that Julius is gone. Still, this team is better and improving constantly. I didn't even factor rookies or new editions into the fit, and I'm sure we can expect them to do some good things when they play.
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diando
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:11 am    Post subject:

I'd also argue that he's past his prime already since he doesn't play consistent defense.
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Also, I'll never excuse LeBron for defensive lapses.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:14 am    Post subject:

diando wrote:
I'd also argue that he's past his prime already since he doesn't play consistent defense.


Which is why he will be a better PF than SF.

At SF, just like we saw with Kobe/MJ as they aged, you can't reclaim footspeed. But unlike them, LBJ can downshift to a "big man" position and still be elite footspeed wise there.

His peak prime was so high, that even at age 33-34 he's still in a different "prime."
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:17 am    Post subject:

No, because I don't think the goal (if we accept the reality of the Warriors dynasty still reigning supreme for another year or two) is to win a title in LBJ's "prime". I use that term lightly because it's debatable whether or not he's still in his prime, but that's another argument altogether. Ultimately, I think our goal this season should be to figure out who of the young core to keep long term, start the process of moving LBJ more off ball, and then bring in another star or two that are actually in their prime next summer (via free agency and/or trade) to supplement the remaining core + LBJ going forward. The idea then would be to have a team less dependent on LBJ, with other core players at different stages of their careers here to gradually assume more responsibilities over the next 3-5 years. Sustainability, as Maginka have been preaching, similar to what the Celtics are doing.

So personally, I think our next title will come with LBJ as one of several components to the engine, rather than THE engine itself. And that's not to say that he won't still be an integral piece that everything else revolves around, but with him getting up their in age and mileage, it makes sense as the natural next step of his career. He's still absolutely going to kick ass in that role, though, just not in the way we're used to.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:27 am    Post subject:

Vancouver Fan wrote:
Lebron isn't in his prime.

You're correct. He doesn't have the same defensive abilities he once had, and he isn't capable of putting his head down and blowing by most defenders anymore. Now, more often, he has to pump fake, jab step, drop step, or spin at least once to beat opponents to the basket. It's a sign of his intelligence and his decline. It's only going to get more apparent as time goes by.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: Are the Lakers Wasting a Year of LBJ's "Prime?"

yinoma2001 wrote:
activeverb wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Personally for me, no. I think they are wisely going to assess the young core and see which of them fit with LBJ. The team didn't trade out young pieces for a win-now veteran, and I'm ok with that because I don't think that would have made us beat the Warriors. In the long run, we will need 2-3 all star level players AND the young core (which will still be on rookie deals) to have the depth to take down the Warriors.

However, it is fair to say that LBJ has a finite number of "prime" (pretty crazy that it's still there at age 33 though it's not at his peak obviously) years and we are using one of the last few ones to assess the team and stock it with a bunch of 1 year deals.



You're assuming the team will be the same at the end of the year as the start of the year. For all we know, they'll make a big trade for Leonard or someone else mid season.


That's certainly a possibility or not. It'll be interesting to see what they learned from the PG13 experience.

...or what was learned from NY's Melo experience.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:32 am    Post subject:

lakersboy wrote:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
Lebron isn't in his prime.

You're correct. He doesn't have the same defensive abilities he once had, and he isn't capable of putting his head down and blowing by most defenders anymore. Now, more often, he has to pump fake, jab step, drop step, or spin at least once to beat opponents to the basket. It's a sign of his intelligence and his decline. It's only going to get more apparent as time goes by.


Yet was able to singlehandedly drag the Cavs to the Finals this year.

It's such a high peak he's coming down from, and thanks to his Karl Malone like size with the skills of a guard, it'll be a slow descent IMO.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:32 am    Post subject:

vkewalra wrote:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
Lebron isn't in his prime.


He isn't in his prime, but I'd say he's about equal to prime Karl Malone and in that kind of shape too. Malone was pretty effective even at age 40 on the Lakers, so I'm looking forward to Lebron taking steps back over the years as Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, Hart, etc get better.


Karl Malone is a best case scenario. He did decline, but it was really slow. It will be great if Lebron's career winds down that way. He might pass KAJ for the points record in the final year of his Lakers contract. That would be . . . weird.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:34 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersboy wrote:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
Lebron isn't in his prime.

You're correct. He doesn't have the same defensive abilities he once had, and he isn't capable of putting his head down and blowing by most defenders anymore. Now, more often, he has to pump fake, jab step, drop step, or spin at least once to beat opponents to the basket. It's a sign of his intelligence and his decline. It's only going to get more apparent as time goes by.


Yet was able to singlehandedly drag the Cavs to the Finals this year.

It's such a high peak he's coming down from, and thanks to his Karl Malone like size with the skills of a guard, it'll be a slow descent IMO.


What worries me most is that injuries will finally catch up with him. Karl Malone was almost supernatural in his ability to stay healthy, at least until his super-powers failed against the Pistons.
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