Kobe mentoring Jayson Tatum (UPDATE: mentoring Kyle Kuzma too! p.22)
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3baller
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:06 pm    Post subject:

If we had been looking to draft Tatum, I think the C's would have caught wind and wouldn't have traded their pick to the 76ers. The sixers not getting fleeced was the only thing that would have changed.
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mirak
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:14 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
trablos wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
KungPau wrote:
Honestly, losing organizations are losing organizations because they draft poorly and then fail to develop anyone. There's nothing inherently wrong with drafting for need or BPA.


Well, it depends on the talent disparity on the BPA and other player. If you think the BPA is Durant, you don’t go and draft someone else because you already have a player at SF.

If Tatum ends up to be a multi-time all-star, and Lonzo ends up borderline all-star, then it doesn’t validate not doing BPA

Nobody is saying you take a Mike Conley over KD, but if you feel the players will have similar impact, and you already have a glut at one spot, there is nothing wrong with drafting for best fit. In other words, if two guys are equal in terms of value, why not take the one who fits your future goals and needs better?


This is the Portland paradox.

You already have Clyde Drexler.

Michael Jordan is on the draft board. You DO NOT know that he's a potential GOAT, simply because you've only seen 20ppg (max) out of UNC and his workouts.

You know you already have a future HOFer in Clyde Drexler. You, *think* Sam Bowie provides similar impact, just in different ways, because he rebounds, blocks shots, and there was a glut of talent at 5 during the 80s.

We all know who Portland picked.

Now it relates to the Lakers.

You actually have Eddie Jones, and up and coming All-Star, and good guy. Dude even defends MJ pretty darn well considering. Defensive player, improving 3-ball, dunks on Shawn Bradley, etc.

Then there's a 17 year old kid dominating workouts at the same position.

We know who Jerry West picked.

My point? Better be DARN sure that the projected impact of BPA is the same, because those mistakes are costly.


This is the definitive rebuttal.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:28 pm    Post subject:

Lebron was coming here even if team won 10 games last season
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MJST
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:36 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Lebron was coming here even if team won 10 games last season


No
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epak
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:27 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Lebron was coming here even if team won 10 games last season


No


To be honest, I have no idea what's going on in Lebron's head. So who knows if he would have come or not?

Some might even go as far to say that Lebron would have come even if the FO consisted of Jim and Mitch.

At that point, how can you you argue with someone about hypotheticals?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:12 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Lebron was coming here even if team won 10 games last season


You're gonna hurt people's feelings with such talk.
*He came here for Lonzo and thats final!
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:26 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Lebron was coming here even if team won 10 games last season


You were mocking people about the notion that LBJ would join this team a year ago. Now this is your new stance. Wow.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:02 am    Post subject:

Maybe Jerry West would have got Lebron to Clippers if we won 10 games. As yinoma said, VLF didn't even think Lebron would join, but now it's like he was coming even with 10 wins. Cavs current roster and Lakers progression with youngsters played a role imo. Of course his HW ambitions and family played a great role too, but I don't think he'd come here if we were as bad as Sixers when they won 9-10 games few years ago.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:50 am    Post subject:

All just a matter of opinion, but my opinion is there's no way in hell LeBron would come if the franchise still looked like the same (bleep) show it did a couple of years ago with Jimbo running things. Actually, it's not entirely opinion, considering past free agencies, there is some evidence he had no interest in playing for the Lakers under that management.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:11 am    Post subject:

Bol wrote:
All just a matter of opinion, but my opinion is there's no way in hell LeBron would come if the franchise still looked like the same (bleep) show it did a couple of years ago with Jimbo running things. Actually, it's not entirely opinion, considering past free agencies, there is some evidence he had no interest in playing for the Lakers under that management.


There is a world of difference between the amount of respect people have towards some trust funder (Jimbo) and Magic Johnson.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:16 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Lebron was coming here even if team won 10 games last season


No


The Lakers have such a great track record of getting FAs when they're so deeply in the lottery.

/s
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:36 am    Post subject:

I hope this doesn't get taken out of context and labeled as trolling.

Stock & Kidd, Cp3, and Rondo combined for 63+ Seasons and only 2 rings which came at the end of Kidd's career as a ring chaser and Rondo with KG, Pierce, and Allen. Are we overvaluing Lonzo's skill set?


Assuming Lonzo reaches their status, we are betting on a %3.17 winning style.


Especially in an era of versatility and positionless basketball where everyone on the floor must be able to get you 3-5 assist per game. I feel like that skillset is overvalued. If you have a good system where you swing the ball around and always move the ball up in transition you will be fine as a passing team.


Give me Tatum's 24ppg in his prime with a 3-5 assist over a 10 apg player.



He will be a top 10 player very soon, same thing with ingram he needs to get that melo jab though
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saetarubia
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:39 am    Post subject:

watchME wrote:
I hope this doesn't get taken out of context and labeled as trolling.

Stock & Kidd, Cp3, and Rondo combined for 63+ Seasons and only 2 rings which came at the end of Kidd's career as a ring chaser and Rondo with KG, Pierce, and Allen. Are we overvaluing Lonzo's skill set?


Assuming Lonzo reaches their status, we are betting on a %3.17 winning style.


Especially in an era of versatility and positionless basketball where everyone on the floor must be able to get you 3-5 assist per game. I feel like that skillset is overvalued. If you have a good system where you swing the ball around and always move the ball up in transition you will be fine as a passing team.


Give me Tatum's 24ppg in his prime with a 3-5 assist over a 10 apg player.



He will be a top 10 player very soon, same thing with ingram he needs to get that melo jab though


No one said Lonzo will be a No.1 option on a championship team. Ideally, you need a top 20-25 player in history to win championships. Melo averaged 24/3 his whole career and never got close to winning a ring. You could add more 24/3-5 players and make the same case against Tatum too. Stock, Kidd, CP3 etc with Lebron, MJ or Kobe might have won rings.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:08 pm    Post subject:

watchME wrote:
I hope this doesn't get taken out of context and labeled as trolling.

Stock & Kidd, Cp3, and Rondo combined for 63+ Seasons and only 2 rings which came at the end of Kidd's career as a ring chaser and Rondo with KG, Pierce, and Allen. Are we overvaluing Lonzo's skill set?


Assuming Lonzo reaches their status, we are betting on a %3.17 winning style.


Especially in an era of versatility and positionless basketball where everyone on the floor must be able to get you 3-5 assist per game. I feel like that skillset is overvalued. If you have a good system where you swing the ball around and always move the ball up in transition you will be fine as a passing team.


Give me Tatum's 24ppg in his prime with a 3-5 assist over a 10 apg player.



He will be a top 10 player very soon, same thing with ingram he needs to get that melo jab though


The player archetypes required to winning a championship change frequently.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:22 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Lebron was coming here even if team won 10 games last season


You were mocking people about the notion that LBJ would join this team a year ago. Now this is your new stance. Wow.


You couldn't make this (bleep) up.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:24 pm    Post subject:

VLF getting exposed yet again.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:54 pm    Post subject:

saetarubia wrote:
Maybe Jerry West would have got Lebron to Clippers if we won 10 games. As yinoma said, VLF didn't even think Lebron would join, but now it's like he was coming even with 10 wins. Cavs current roster and Lakers progression with youngsters played a role imo. Of course his HW ambitions and family played a great role too, but I don't think he'd come here if we were as bad as Sixers when they won 9-10 games few years ago.


I didn’t think he was coming until some here began to say that he was. If he wanted to get in the Finals he wouldn’t have come here. I assumed that was what he wanted but it turns out he decided what was best for his family. And the Clippers wouldn’t have given him a shot at the Finals either.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:02 pm    Post subject:

PRLakeShow wrote:
VLF getting exposed yet again.


And yet, he persists.....
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:18 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
watchME wrote:
I hope this doesn't get taken out of context and labeled as trolling.

Stock & Kidd, Cp3, and Rondo combined for 63+ Seasons and only 2 rings which came at the end of Kidd's career as a ring chaser and Rondo with KG, Pierce, and Allen. Are we overvaluing Lonzo's skill set?


Assuming Lonzo reaches their status, we are betting on a %3.17 winning style.


Especially in an era of versatility and positionless basketball where everyone on the floor must be able to get you 3-5 assist per game. I feel like that skillset is overvalued. If you have a good system where you swing the ball around and always move the ball up in transition you will be fine as a passing team.


Give me Tatum's 24ppg in his prime with a 3-5 assist over a 10 apg player.



He will be a top 10 player very soon, same thing with ingram he needs to get that melo jab though


The player archetypes required to winning a championship change frequently.
Has it ever shifted to pass first PG?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:20 am    Post subject:

watchME wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
watchME wrote:
I hope this doesn't get taken out of context and labeled as trolling.

Stock & Kidd, Cp3, and Rondo combined for 63+ Seasons and only 2 rings which came at the end of Kidd's career as a ring chaser and Rondo with KG, Pierce, and Allen. Are we overvaluing Lonzo's skill set?


Assuming Lonzo reaches their status, we are betting on a %3.17 winning style.


Especially in an era of versatility and positionless basketball where everyone on the floor must be able to get you 3-5 assist per game. I feel like that skillset is overvalued. If you have a good system where you swing the ball around and always move the ball up in transition you will be fine as a passing team.


Give me Tatum's 24ppg in his prime with a 3-5 assist over a 10 apg player.



He will be a top 10 player very soon, same thing with ingram he needs to get that melo jab though


The player archetypes required to winning a championship change frequently.
Has it ever shifted to pass first PG?

There was a guy on the Lakers from 1979 to 1992 who was a pass-first point guard. In fact, he and his five rings should have been on your list with Stockton, CP3, and others.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:56 am    Post subject:

watchME wrote:
I hope this doesn't get taken out of context and labeled as trolling.

Stock & Kidd, Cp3, and Rondo combined for 63+ Seasons and only 2 rings which came at the end of Kidd's career as a ring chaser and Rondo with KG, Pierce, and Allen. Are we overvaluing Lonzo's skill set?


Assuming Lonzo reaches their status, we are betting on a %3.17 winning style.


Especially in an era of versatility and positionless basketball where everyone on the floor must be able to get you 3-5 assist per game. I feel like that skillset is overvalued. If you have a good system where you swing the ball around and always move the ball up in transition you will be fine as a passing team.


Give me Tatum's 24ppg in his prime with a 3-5 assist over a 10 apg player.



He will be a top 10 player very soon, same thing with ingram he needs to get that melo jab though

Your're cherry picking names. Magic Johnson should have been on your list with his five rings because he's a pass-first point guard.

Paul George is a forward who averages 20-something points a game, and he was at one time looked at as a top-10 player. It looks like he'll never win anything.

It appears that you're intentionally enhancing Tatum's value by throwing in his 3-5 assists, while making it seem as if the only thing Lonzo would be contributing in his prime is 10 assist. Nothing is further from the truth. He brings a winning style with all around contributions on both ends of the court. Tatum is mainly known for scoring.

It's not unreasonable to assume that if Tatum's scoring ability is going to improve, Lonzo's will also as he matures.

I don't see Tatum doing a single thing that Kuzma can't do, so I'm very happy to have Ball and Kuzma instead of Tatum.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:18 am    Post subject:

KungPau wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Tatum isn't hype he's the real deal. Him and Mitchell are going to be top 10 players very soon. The way they move on the court makes me believe they will be all time greats. And they were doing in the playoffs on good teams not regular season putting up stats on a bad team.


This entire post is hype.


It's deserved. Did you watch those two play in the playoffs last year? I haven't seen rookies shine at that stage in a long time.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:20 am    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Lebron was coming here even if team won 10 games last season


You were mocking people about the notion that LBJ would join this team a year ago. Now this is your new stance. Wow.


You couldn't make this (bleep) up.


Between Jim and Mitch's departure. And now Randle gone. It's been a couple rough seasons for VLF.
I will say, LBJ isn't a Laker right now if we kept our old FO.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:24 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Lebron was coming here even if team won 10 games last season

LeBron is known as a guy who does homework and research. He is not dumb. Last year he heard all the hype and got an up close and personal seat to watch the Lakers summer league team. He came to see Lonzo, but he also saw Kuzma. He knew about the Lakers good draft picks over the last few years and their development. There's no way he would blindly come here without strong expectations. He knows the management is high on Ingram, and Kuzma, and especially Hart, per John Ireland.

Lakers fans are fond of the young players for a good reason. We are not speculating on the next Caron Butler, Devin Ebanks, or Javaris Crittenton. LeBron sees the same special talent the fans and Lakers management don't want to give away in trades.

Do you think LeBron would be here if that 10 win rotation featured Sacre, Ryan Kelly, Anthony Brown, Ronnie Price, and Wayne Ellington?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:14 am    Post subject:

Which reflects the idea that winning a title wasn’t his highest priority. Players like Ball, Ingram and Kuzma are nowhere close to being starters on a title team.
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