OFFICIAL GENERAL FREE AGENCY/TRADE THREAD
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KeepItRealOrElse
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:27 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
lobomart wrote:
If we are looking to shore up the SF position, and value keeping Danny Green for defensive versatility, I think we can join OKC & Miami in a potential CP3 trade and become a landing spot for Justice Winslow.

Winslow is a depressed asset with his back ailment, but he can initiate the offense as an over-sized guard, while also serving as a Marcus Smart style player that can defensively cover smalls & bigs.


I like Winslow a lot. But he kinda makes a lot of money ($13m) and matching salaries is tough.


he's the perfect wing for us cuz he's a good defender while also a creator, playing a lot of PG
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:29 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Is the window short with James? Serious question. Is it possible that that's also a simplistic view?


He turned 35. Has insane minutes on his body. You do the math. Which NBA players have carried his disproportionate scoring/playmaking load and remained a top 5 player age 35-40?

Exactly! You're making my point. Everything you stated is reason to keep young talent around him and sign Davis the following season.

Wouldn't surrounding him with young talent and Davis effectively extend his window? Again, serious question.


And what young talent is that if it was required to trade for AD?

What exactly are we gaining re-litigating this point every time BI has a 40+ point game?

We have a championship core for 2 seasons IMO, and thereafter, who knows.


and that's fine... and If AD is as good as he was advertised , I think it's reasonable to expect we'll win... Because what was he as advertised : "only 25 years old", ok come into this season improved as a shooter...to a 5th of the degree the youth we traded improved. also "he's so skilled for a bigman he dribbles like a guard", cool, create something for a team that needs creators.
Be as good as your greatest advertisers.

I just need the ring over the team with 1 more good role player, or the younger 6'11 player in MIL... he's 26, and it happens to be the age we need him to be something of a #1 to win a ring - time is now for AD to rise to what will be the highest standard of his career.

And he's been better than I expected defensively, an all timer in my young opinion.... but it doesn't mean the offense isn't the thing that looks like it's restricting us from being Champs.. there's a reason why players who don't play defense are higher on the MVP ranking than AD, or are having more success as the singular star on their team at 20 years old, than AD did... there's value there, and I need some of it from AD on that end..........

Really need point AD


you called that's what we needed. he needs to be as generational as advertised.. imo.. and that's just a function of the modern NBA.


we're here in this thread clamoring for retired Collison or even THT to relieve Lebron of a smidge of creating duties...cmon AD, mr generational

He would have a lot more space to operate and show off those guard skills if he played C.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:30 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lobomart wrote:
If we are looking to shore up the SF position, and value keeping Danny Green for defensive versatility, I think we can join OKC & Miami in a potential CP3 trade and become a landing spot for Justice Winslow.

Winslow is a depressed asset with his back ailment, but he can initiate the offense as an over-sized guard, while also serving as a Marcus Smart style player that can defensively cover smalls & bigs.


I like Winslow a lot. But he kinda makes a lot of money ($13m) and matching salaries is tough.


he's the perfect wing for us cuz he's a good defender while also a creator, playing a lot of PG


Yeah. I've coveted Winslow for a while. But don't think we have the assets for him as the HEAT really like him, no?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:31 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
Anyone who thinks that BI was not the centerpiece of the AD deal for the Pelicans are fooling themselves. He was a must in both salary and talent (and I am not saying this because of this season, but his value of last off season). The kid was light years more valuable than the rest of our kids and the difference has only gotten greater.


I don't understand why folks don't know this. Griffin prior to being the Pels GM was gushing over BI. He was for sure a part of the centerpiece, and non-negotiable IMO.

The negotiating and such was for the fringe elements like Hart or future protected picks.


The people pushing that narrative simply ignore facts to push their agenda.

Their narrative also assumes that the “selling” team in these situations acts in a rational manner and treats all “buyers” equally. We know that’s not the case- just look at Pop’s refusal to send Kawhi to the Lakers. He ended up getting a pupu platter from Toronto because he wanted to spite the Lakers.
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KeepItRealOrElse
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:31 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Is the window short with James? Serious question. Is it possible that that's also a simplistic view?


He turned 35. Has insane minutes on his body. You do the math. Which NBA players have carried his disproportionate scoring/playmaking load and remained a top 5 player age 35-40?

Exactly! You're making my point. Everything you stated is reason to keep young talent around him and sign Davis the following season.

Wouldn't surrounding him with young talent and Davis effectively extend his window? Again, serious question.


And what young talent is that if it was required to trade for AD?

What exactly are we gaining re-litigating this point every time BI has a 40+ point game?

We have a championship core for 2 seasons IMO, and thereafter, who knows.


and that's fine... and If AD is as good as he was advertised , I think it's reasonable to expect we'll win... Because what was he as advertised : "only 25 years old", ok come into this season improved as a shooter...to a 5th of the degree the youth we traded improved. also "he's so skilled for a bigman he dribbles like a guard", cool, create something for a team that needs creators.
Be as good as your greatest advertisers.

I just need the ring over the team with 1 more good role player, or the younger 6'11 player in MIL... he's 26, and it happens to be the age we need him to be something of a #1 to win a ring - time is now for AD to rise to what will be the highest standard of his career.

And he's been better than I expected defensively, an all timer in my young opinion.... but it doesn't mean the offense isn't the thing that looks like it's restricting us from being Champs.. there's a reason why players who don't play defense are higher on the MVP ranking than AD, or are having more success as the singular star on their team at 20 years old, than AD did... there's value there, and I need some of it from AD on that end..........

Really need point AD


you called that's what we needed. he needs to be as generational as advertised.. imo.. and that's just a function of the modern NBA.


we're here in this thread clamoring for retired Collison or even THT to relieve Lebron of a smidge of creating duties...cmon AD, mr generational

He would have a lot more space to operate and show off those guard skills if he played C.


solid reasoning there.. Idk if I buy he has the skill to do it often in the first place (every now in again is his skill level imo, like what he shows now)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:32 pm    Post subject:

PHILosophize wrote:
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=vkoaued

kind of hard to make the salaries work but I think it's a reasonable idea considering the knicks appear interested in kuz

I hate it, Phil. Morris is shooting at an unsustainable rate and seems like the kind of guy who will want more money than the Lakers can pay him without his Bird Rights.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:33 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
lobomart wrote:
If we are looking to shore up the SF position, and value keeping Danny Green for defensive versatility, I think we can join OKC & Miami in a potential CP3 trade and become a landing spot for Justice Winslow.

Winslow is a depressed asset with his back ailment, but he can initiate the offense as an over-sized guard, while also serving as a Marcus Smart style player that can defensively cover smalls & bigs.


I like Winslow a lot. But he kinda makes a lot of money ($13m) and matching salaries is tough.


Assumption is any deal for Winslow involves both KCP & Kuzma, And we provide extra value to OKC to grease wheels for CP3 to Miami.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=r2bx2co
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:36 pm    Post subject:

lobomart wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lobomart wrote:
If we are looking to shore up the SF position, and value keeping Danny Green for defensive versatility, I think we can join OKC & Miami in a potential CP3 trade and become a landing spot for Justice Winslow.

Winslow is a depressed asset with his back ailment, but he can initiate the offense as an over-sized guard, while also serving as a Marcus Smart style player that can defensively cover smalls & bigs.


I like Winslow a lot. But he kinda makes a lot of money ($13m) and matching salaries is tough.


Assumption is any deal for Winslow involves both KCP & Kuzma, And we provide extra value to OKC to grease wheels for CP3 to Miami.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=r2bx2co


I think this trade makes us worse. Not to mention we now onboard the liability of Justice Winslow’s free throw percentage
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:38 pm    Post subject:

babyskyhook wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
Anyone who thinks that BI was not the centerpiece of the AD deal for the Pelicans are fooling themselves. He was a must in both salary and talent (and I am not saying this because of this season, but his value of last off season). The kid was light years more valuable than the rest of our kids and the difference has only gotten greater.


I don't understand why folks don't know this. Griffin prior to being the Pels GM was gushing over BI. He was for sure a part of the centerpiece, and non-negotiable IMO.

The negotiating and such was for the fringe elements like Hart or future protected picks.


The people pushing that narrative simply ignore facts to push their agenda.

Their narrative also assumes that the “selling” team in these situations acts in a rational manner and treats all “buyers” equally. We know that’s not the case- just look at Pop’s refusal to send Kawhi to the Lakers. He ended up getting a pupu platter from Toronto because he wanted to spite the Lakers.


Whew. Thank goodness Pop didn't get his hands on Zo/BI. Dang.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:39 pm    Post subject:

lobomart wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lobomart wrote:
If we are looking to shore up the SF position, and value keeping Danny Green for defensive versatility, I think we can join OKC & Miami in a potential CP3 trade and become a landing spot for Justice Winslow.

Winslow is a depressed asset with his back ailment, but he can initiate the offense as an over-sized guard, while also serving as a Marcus Smart style player that can defensively cover smalls & bigs.


I like Winslow a lot. But he kinda makes a lot of money ($13m) and matching salaries is tough.


Assumption is any deal for Winslow involves both KCP & Kuzma, And we provide extra value to OKC to grease wheels for CP3 to Miami.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=r2bx2co


That's a no go for me.

Balky back and we lose two key rotation players.

If it's Kuz and flotsam (i.e. Cook, etc.) it's a different story.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:41 pm    Post subject:

Inverse wrote:
lobomart wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lobomart wrote:
If we are looking to shore up the SF position, and value keeping Danny Green for defensive versatility, I think we can join OKC & Miami in a potential CP3 trade and become a landing spot for Justice Winslow.

Winslow is a depressed asset with his back ailment, but he can initiate the offense as an over-sized guard, while also serving as a Marcus Smart style player that can defensively cover smalls & bigs.


I like Winslow a lot. But he kinda makes a lot of money ($13m) and matching salaries is tough.


Assumption is any deal for Winslow involves both KCP & Kuzma, And we provide extra value to OKC to grease wheels for CP3 to Miami.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=r2bx2co


I think this trade makes us worse. Not to mention we now onboard the liability of Justice Winslow’s free throw percentage


Winslow give defensive versatility to go big or small in closing lineups:

Big: Danny, Justice, LBJ, AD, Dwight
Small: Caruso, Danny, Justice, LBJ, AD

The major caveat looking forward is Justice provides defensive chops and playmaking point of entry, and offsets the potential fit of a Covington/GSW lineup next season.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:42 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
PHILosophize wrote:
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=vkoaued

kind of hard to make the salaries work but I think it's a reasonable idea considering the knicks appear interested in kuz

I hate it, Phil. Morris is shooting at an unsustainable rate and seems like the kind of guy who will want more money than the Lakers can pay him without his Bird Rights.


fair

tbh I also forgot about the klutch fallout with him last offseason so it's probably a nonstarter from that perspective
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:43 pm    Post subject:

Do you guys think MIA is looking to get off Winslow?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:46 pm    Post subject:

lobomart wrote:
Inverse wrote:
lobomart wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lobomart wrote:
If we are looking to shore up the SF position, and value keeping Danny Green for defensive versatility, I think we can join OKC & Miami in a potential CP3 trade and become a landing spot for Justice Winslow.

Winslow is a depressed asset with his back ailment, but he can initiate the offense as an over-sized guard, while also serving as a Marcus Smart style player that can defensively cover smalls & bigs.


I like Winslow a lot. But he kinda makes a lot of money ($13m) and matching salaries is tough.


Assumption is any deal for Winslow involves both KCP & Kuzma, And we provide extra value to OKC to grease wheels for CP3 to Miami.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=r2bx2co


I think this trade makes us worse. Not to mention we now onboard the liability of Justice Winslow’s free throw percentage


Winslow give defensive versatility to go big or small in closing lineups:

Big: Danny, Justice, LBJ, AD, Dwight
Small: Caruso, Danny, Justice, LBJ, AD

The major caveat looking forward is Justice provides defensive chops and playmaking point of entry, and offsets the potential fit of a Covington/GSW lineup next season.


Personally, I put an emphasis on free throw shooting. It’s already bad enough we have two poor shooters out there to close games in Dwight and LeBron. To add another 60% free throw shooter in crunch time is a recipe for disaster when we’re talking about a physical 7 game series with the Clips. I’d be ok with this trade if Justice was a reliable 75% from the stripe. That’s why a guy like Bogdanovic is so appealing to me. He’s not a liability to close games
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:48 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Is the window short with James? Serious question. Is it possible that that's also a simplistic view?


He turned 35. Has insane minutes on his body. You do the math. Which NBA players have carried his disproportionate scoring/playmaking load and remained a top 5 player age 35-40?

Exactly! You're making my point. Everything you stated is reason to keep young talent around him and sign Davis the following season.

Wouldn't surrounding him with young talent and Davis effectively extend his window? Again, serious question.


And what young talent is that if it was required to trade for AD?

What exactly are we gaining re-litigating this point every time BI has a 40+ point game?

We have a championship core for 2 seasons IMO, and thereafter, who knows.


and that's fine... and If AD is as good as he was advertised , I think it's reasonable to expect we'll win... Because what was he as advertised : "only 25 years old", ok come into this season improved as a shooter...to a 5th of the degree the youth we traded improved. also "he's so skilled for a bigman he dribbles like a guard", cool, create something for a team that needs creators.
Be as good as your greatest advertisers.

I just need the ring over the team with 1 more good role player, or the younger 6'11 player in MIL... he's 26, and it happens to be the age we need him to be something of a #1 to win a ring - time is now for AD to rise to what will be the highest standard of his career.

And he's been better than I expected defensively, an all timer in my young opinion.... but it doesn't mean the offense isn't the thing that looks like it's restricting us from being Champs.. there's a reason why players who don't play defense are higher on the MVP ranking than AD, or are having more success as the singular star on their team at 20 years old, than AD did... there's value there, and I need some of it from AD on that end..........

Really need point AD


Part of it is the one hole on this coaching staff. That offensive creativity and outside-the-box thinking we lack. And then I guess it's just AD's reluctance and lack of confidence (or maybe desire?) to take his game in that direction.

He clearly has the athletic ability and has flashed the tools to create off the dribble. And you move him up to the 5 for stretches to gain further advantage, who's gonna stop him? I don't understand why this is something that hasn't even been explored yet. It's like everyone involved, including himself, has somewhat pigeonholed him into this traditional big man role that is such a disservice to his talent. His defense has been phenomenal, but man, there's so much there to be unlocked still on offense. Which is crazy when he's already scoring 27 a game just playing it easy off Lebron.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:48 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Do you guys think MIA is looking to get off Winslow?


I don't see it. Especially if you're ostensibly replacing him with Kuz, who is the antithesis of Winslow's gritty defense.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:55 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Do you guys think MIA is looking to get off Winslow?


I don't see it. Especially if you're ostensibly replacing him with Kuz, who is the antithesis of Winslow's gritty defense.


There is recent media coverage for Riley, and he's looking to add another big piece for their window. He's never been afraid to cash in chips, especially with the dead money they have stowed on Waiters Island.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:56 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Do you guys think MIA is looking to get off Winslow?


That’s a personal question for MIA
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:57 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Do you guys think MIA is looking to get off Winslow?


I don't see it. Especially if you're ostensibly replacing him with Kuz, who is the antithesis of Winslow's gritty defense.


He's going on missing 30 games so far. And he's going to miss 2 more weeks with a back injury?

Seems risky to trade for him.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:57 pm    Post subject:

lobomart wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Do you guys think MIA is looking to get off Winslow?


I don't see it. Especially if you're ostensibly replacing him with Kuz, who is the antithesis of Winslow's gritty defense.


There is recent media coverage for Riley, and he's looking to add another big piece for their window. He's never been afraid to cash in chips, especially with the dead money they have stowed on Waiters Island.


You would need to either include KCP or Bradley with Kuz/Cook to have matching salaries. Losing 2 rotation players for 1 who is recovering from a balky back may not be in the Lakers interest right now. And KCP can override any trade, though Miami may be intriguing to him.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:59 pm    Post subject:

I'm watching Winslow clips and it looks like he only generates difficult shots, like a wing version of Randle getting into the paint...and shoots 22% from 3.
thought he was better
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:02 pm    Post subject:

Pesc: I appreciate the words bro and I do find that aspect of a gifted #1 overall pick to replace a lost homegrown star in a small market really peculiar. I mean when Bron even returned to the Cavs so that Cleveland can finally see their title realized, they got the #1 overall pick again and that’s what led to the Love trade....

...which leads us perfectly into the AD trade example. Ky was the star in waiting for James as the free agent, no different that Bron waiting on a 2nd max guy via free agent on the Lakers. It was rumored Bron would come back to Cleveland if a 3rd star was also in tow and that name was widely regarded as Love who wanted out of Minny...no different that than AD wanting out from NO. And what happened, Cleveland got the #1 pick, signed him (Wiggins) and waited 30 days to trade for Love. Meanwhile Bron signed his max deal in July and joined Ky in Cleveland, waiting for that third star to come on board in August.

Quote:
CLEVELAND -- Kevin Love is finally teaming up with LeBron James.

The Minnesota Timberwolves, Cleveland Cavaliers and Philadelphia 76ers completed a delayed blockbuster trade Saturday that's been talked about for months and on hold for 30 days. Love, arguably the game's best power forward, is headed from Minnesota to Cleveland, where he will join James and instantly make the Cavs an NBA title favorite.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/11397368/kevin-love-traded-minnesota-timberwolves-cleveland-cavaliers


Bron/AD/3rd star had the same blueprint, but we couldn’t negotiate that #4 pick to count as salary aggregation. Now I’m not saying it would have spared us BI, but it sure could have saved other assets lost due to salary matching purposes to preserve that max slot and not have AD leak into that cap space at all.

Yinoma: Trust me, I’m the biggest advocate in trading for AD. I’ve been wanting AD since hearing about buying a house in LA shortly after Bron came on board in July 2018.

Quote:
On July 2, 2018, TMZ Sports reported that Davis purchased a $7.5 million home in Westlake Village, Los Angeles, California 40 miles away from Staples Center in Los Angeles. The home includes a home theater, a gym, an infinity pool with water slides, an outdoor kitchen, and an indoor basketball court.

https://www.nola.com/sports/pelicans/article_18134ffb-627a-5e2b-96bc-71947c7695b2.amp.html


But that still doesn’t mean I’m happy with how it went down. Usually in trading for a star that forced his way here, at the very least you expect him to be locked up via extension once the trade is official. We didn’t even accomplish that both by having him nix his trade kicker and then whiffing on a max FA to offer his kicker to the likes of McGee, Caruso, Cook, Kcp, Green and Boog. I would have gladly shaved off 700k off each those dudes deals to give AD his full kicker to unlock a 3yr 30%max extension taking him to 2022 where he can cash in on a 35%max. But nah, we scrambled our cap away.

Then you look at how we have zero control in how we can trade our future draft picks till 2027. We won’t know if our 2025 1st is spared till after NO makes their choice on it in 2024. Just think about our limitations in offering future draft compensation in trades moving forward. We shot ourselves in the foot and we did so for a guy that literally had his dad force Boston out of the equation so that we would be the leading destination. Wow!

This isn’t about BI. I doubt there was a choice of him or Kuz in the matter. But I totally disagree with the notion that BI HAD to be in the deal for salary purposes. That’s just flat out untrue.

However, if it seriously came down to a choice of holding onto Kuz and instead including more draft compensation and the 2023 pick swap then it can still be debated if that was the right choice or not. Regardless of being gifted hindsight 20/20 vision, personally, I would have dealt away Kuz and held onto more draft compensation, cause frankly it’s easier to move in future trades.

I love AD here and I want him here for many many years...but I do agree with folks that we gave up too much for a guy that forced his way here.


Last edited by vasashi17+ on Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:03 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
I'm watching Winslow clips and it looks like he only generates difficult shots, like a wing version of Randle getting into the paint...and shoots 22% from 3.
thought he was better


He's good on defense but doesn't help our offense much. Wouldn't give up someone like KCP for him
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:04 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
lobomart wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Do you guys think MIA is looking to get off Winslow?


I don't see it. Especially if you're ostensibly replacing him with Kuz, who is the antithesis of Winslow's gritty defense.


There is recent media coverage for Riley, and he's looking to add another big piece for their window. He's never been afraid to cash in chips, especially with the dead money they have stowed on Waiters Island.


You would need to either include KCP or Bradley with Kuz/Cook to have matching salaries. Losing 2 rotation players for 1 who is recovering from a balky back may not be in the Lakers interest right now. And KCP can override any trade, though Miami may be intriguing to him.


Acquiring Winslow at cost of two rotation players opens up time for Caruso, and provides a slot to fill for Collison (again assumption that Iggy would not be available).

Also I place a lot of faith in Judy Seto, maybe too much, but her value proposition would sway any health-related reluctance.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:07 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
I love AD here and I want him here for many many years...but I do agree with folks that we gave up too much for a guy that forced his way here.


I agree with this. We gave up too much for sure. But I can't imagine being able to keep 1 or 2 of Zo/BI/4th. This is AD we're talking about, not Andre Drummond.
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