I have yet to read a well-thought out response to a Horton-Tucker for Iguodala trade.
I've been told it's dumb as rocks to acquire a 36-year old for a teenager and it can't legally be done, but no real fair-minded explanations.
Maybe I'm asking for too much.
Aren't they trying to win a ring this year? Isn't Iguodala's skillset needed, even if he is 36 years old and on his couch right now?
What am I missing?
Iguodala makes too much money.
He's argued that the Grizzlies can "wink wink" agree to buy out Iggy so that he can join the Lakers.
... by drastically overpaying for one Josh Jackson.
Why? Jackson's 7 million dollar deal is easier to match than Iggy's 17.
Let's just assume for a moment that the Grizzlies would agree to this. You don't think the league--meaning, the league's owners, meaning the Commissioner's office--would be remarkably suspicious of us trading for Josh Jackson and giving up an asset, only to miraculously get the Grizzlies to waive Iggy a week or two later when they have been adamant that they will not do that? It would look like clear circumvention. And as much as the league's owners hate the Lakers, let's just say that I'm skeptical.
Thank you. I don't disagree.
I've also suggested that as part of the agreement that Memphis buys out Iguodala first and the Lakers overpay for Jackson a week later.
A small detail that could really throw off the scent.
'Preciate the fair-minded feedback sir.
Practical question: if you were the GM for Memphis would you risk your job/reputation just to move Josh Jackson and acquire THT?
Absolutely not.
I proposed that trade under the assumption that rules are "bent" all the time, which, in my opinion, they are.
Now my question: Do you think "rules" are broken quite frequently by front office execs?
Depends on the type of rule. Magic broke the tampering rule but what you are proposing has more of an ethical issue to it which I feel would be more damaging to a person's reputation/character. Magic otoh just looks foolish.
Since you state absolutely not then I would hope both Pelinka and the Memphis GM would have character above what you propose.
I have yet to read a well-thought out response to a Horton-Tucker for Iguodala trade.
I've been told it's dumb as rocks to acquire a 36-year old for a teenager and it can't legally be done, but no real fair-minded explanations.
Maybe I'm asking for too much.
Aren't they trying to win a ring this year? Isn't Iguodala's skillset needed, even if he is 36 years old and on his couch right now?
What am I missing?
Iguodala makes too much money.
He's argued that the Grizzlies can "wink wink" agree to buy out Iggy so that he can join the Lakers.
... by drastically overpaying for one Josh Jackson.
Why? Jackson's 7 million dollar deal is easier to match than Iggy's 17.
Let's just assume for a moment that the Grizzlies would agree to this. You don't think the league--meaning, the league's owners, meaning the Commissioner's office--would be remarkably suspicious of us trading for Josh Jackson and giving up an asset, only to miraculously get the Grizzlies to waive Iggy a week or two later when they have been adamant that they will not do that? It would look like clear circumvention. And as much as the league's owners hate the Lakers, let's just say that I'm skeptical.
Thank you. I don't disagree.
I've also suggested that as part of the agreement that Memphis buys out Iguodala first and the Lakers overpay for Jackson a week later.
A small detail that could really throw off the scent.
'Preciate the fair-minded feedback sir.
Practical question: if you were the GM for Memphis would you risk your job/reputation just to move Josh Jackson and acquire THT?
Absolutely not.
I proposed that trade under the assumption that rules are "bent" all the time, which, in my opinion, they are.
Now my question: Do you think "rules" are broken quite frequently by front office execs?
Depends on the type of rule. Magic broke the tampering rule but what you are proposing has more of an ethical issue to it which I feel would be more damaging to a person's reputation/character. Magic otoh just looks foolish.
Since you state absolutely not then I would hope both Pelinka and the Memphis GM would have character above what you propose.
Remember when you could trade players to another team, their new team could cut them, then the old team could resign him? That could be seen as unethical but it was done up until the NBA created an explicit rule against it.
Remember when you could resign a player who was more or less unofficially retired just to match salaries in a trade? The Lakers, I believe, did this Aaron McKim in the infamous Pau Gasol trade. That was definitely manipulating and gaming the system, but there wasn't a peep.
My point is that until there are explicit rules against certain practices, execs take creative license with the rules all of the time ... as they should. Winning execs are ALWAYS looking for loopholes and cracks in the cement.
Memphis is perfectly within the rules to buy out Iguodala one week then accept Horton-Tucker, 4 million cash, Cook, and Daniels for Josh Jackson the following week.
It's all above board until they create a rule against it. _________________ A creative scorer, a wing defender, and a shooter.
I definitely don’t think THT is untouchable. He’s promising, but won’t be an important piece of the rotation until his 3rd year at least, if at all. His good G League form makes his value even better, means that if needed we can probably grab someone like Valentine for THT, salary filler and a 2nd _________________ #18 next...
Remember when you could trade players to another team, their new team could cut them, then the old team could resign him? That could be seen as unethical but it was done up until the NBA created an explicit rule against it.
Remember when you could resign a player who was more or less unofficially retired just to match salaries in a trade? The Lakers, I believe, did this Aaron McKim in the infamous Pau Gasol trade. That was definitely manipulating and gaming the system, but there wasn't a peep.
My point is that until there are explicit rules against certain practices, execs take creative license with the rules all of the time ... as they should. Winning execs are ALWAYS looking for loopholes and cracks in the cement.
Memphis is perfectly within the rules to buy out Iguodala one week then accept Horton-Tucker, 4 million cash, Cook, and Daniels for Josh Jackson the following week.
It's all above board until they create a rule against it.
In your first example the NBA put a stop to it as they obviously saw this as a problem.
I don't see an issue with the second example as it has no effect on the GM's reputation.
My point is if this favor is done for the Lakers or any team for that matter then the Memphis GM will tarnish his reputation and put himself and byproduct his team in a position where other GM's may become leery of working with him.
Once animosity is created between teams/GM's then you put yourself and again your team at a disadvantage in the future. I don't believe any GM would put themself in this position which could possibly jeopardize his job.
Maybe you have better memory than I do but I cannot recall any transaction of this type happening and I will leave it at that.
One item I do want to bring up is you have advocated when proposing trades to think in fairness to the other teams rotation/roster. In this same respect when you propose a multi player for 1 trade you need to consider in fairness who will the other team need to cut to complete this trade. For Memphis that would be a tough call especially if it is 3 to 1.
Last edited by PlantedTanks on Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
The beginning of the Gleague season was difficult to get a read. Forced too many bad shots and selfish. I also noticed this in his college games although I wasn't focusing in on him (i.e. Haliburton). However he flashed so much skill (handles, body control) I just wanted to wait before commenting. When both Jackson and Stockton went down he became more of a distributor and again flashed passing skills I had no idea he possessed.
This past 5-10 games it seems the game has really slowed down for him and damn he looks really good. Still gets tunnel vision with the ball in his hands but I would be hard pressed to move him. Even if it came down to Kuzma or THT I am leaning on keeping THT.
Having both SBay PG's go down may have been a blessing for THT's development as he now controls the ball a significant amount of time and is allowed the opportunity to develop his game further than I thought possible this early in his career. This is similar to how I see both LaMelo and Lonzo's game was allowed to develop.
KIROE you still like Caboclo? I have been thinking about him and agree with your thoughts about acquiring him for his wing defense.
The beginning of the Gleague season was difficult to get a read. Forced too many bad shots and selfish. I also noticed this in his college games although I wasn't focusing in on him (i.e. Haliburton). However he flashed so much skill (handles, body control) I just wanted to wait before commenting. When both Jackson and Stockton went down he became more of a distributor and again flashed passing skills I had no idea he possessed.
This past 5-10 games it seems the game has really slowed down for him and damn he looks really good. Still gets tunnel vision with the ball in his hands but I would be hard pressed to move him. Ever if it came down to Kuzma or THT I am leaning on keeping THT.
Having both SBay PG's go down may have been a blessing for THT's development as he now controls the ball a significant amount of time and is allowed the opportunity to develop his game further than I thought possible this early in his career. This is similar to how I see both LaMelo and Lonzo's game was allowed to develop.
KIROE you still like Caboclo? I have been thinking about him and agree with your thoughts about acquiring him for his wing defense.
yea his PG chops impressed me a lot in one of the games I watched.. do you think he should be developed as a PG? or at least a split-duties guard in a lineup with a Caruso?
his athleticism confuses me a bit; but this is low center of gravity is a boon
a lot of flashes as a pick pocket on defense too
yea I'd still take Bruno for sure..despite down 3pt % numbers.. G league the last few years and last NBA season he shot the 3 well.. do i trust it completely no, but i trust he can at least hit like 33% if not more. his defense, I still believe can be impactful here and there ya...
The beginning of the Gleague season was difficult to get a read. Forced too many bad shots and selfish. I also noticed this in his college games although I wasn't focusing in on him (i.e. Haliburton). However he flashed so much skill (handles, body control) I just wanted to wait before commenting. When both Jackson and Stockton went down he became more of a distributor and again flashed passing skills I had no idea he possessed.
This past 5-10 games it seems the game has really slowed down for him and damn he looks really good. Still gets tunnel vision with the ball in his hands but I would be hard pressed to move him. Ever if it came down to Kuzma or THT I am leaning on keeping THT.
Having both SBay PG's go down may have been a blessing for THT's development as he now controls the ball a significant amount of time and is allowed the opportunity to develop his game further than I thought possible this early in his career. This is similar to how I see both LaMelo and Lonzo's game was allowed to develop.
KIROE you still like Caboclo? I have been thinking about him and agree with your thoughts about acquiring him for his wing defense.
yea his PG chops impressed me a lot in one of the games I watched.. do you think he should be developed as a PG? or at least a split-duties guard in a lineup with a Caruso?
his athleticism confuses me a bit; but this is low center of gravity is a boon
a lot of flashes as a pick pocket on defense too
yea I'd still take Bruno for sure..despite down 3pt % numbers.. G league the last few years and last NBA season he shot the 3 well.. do i trust it completely no, but i trust he can at least hit like 33% if not more. his defense, I still believe can be impactful here and there ya...
I believe he could run PG for short periods of time or run tandem with Caruso like you mentioned. That could develop into a nice defensive backcourt. Just for comparison I feel Melton is more of a PG than THT. He needs a solid summer working with trainers for sure to tighten his body.
That's how I feel about Caboclo. If he could provide 15-18 minutes of solid defense any offense would be a bonus.
The beginning of the Gleague season was difficult to get a read. Forced too many bad shots and selfish. I also noticed this in his college games although I wasn't focusing in on him (i.e. Haliburton). However he flashed so much skill (handles, body control) I just wanted to wait before commenting. When both Jackson and Stockton went down he became more of a distributor and again flashed passing skills I had no idea he possessed.
This past 5-10 games it seems the game has really slowed down for him and damn he looks really good. Still gets tunnel vision with the ball in his hands but I would be hard pressed to move him. Ever if it came down to Kuzma or THT I am leaning on keeping THT.
Having both SBay PG's go down may have been a blessing for THT's development as he now controls the ball a significant amount of time and is allowed the opportunity to develop his game further than I thought possible this early in his career. This is similar to how I see both LaMelo and Lonzo's game was allowed to develop.
KIROE you still like Caboclo? I have been thinking about him and agree with your thoughts about acquiring him for his wing defense.
yea his PG chops impressed me a lot in one of the games I watched.. do you think he should be developed as a PG? or at least a split-duties guard in a lineup with a Caruso?
his athleticism confuses me a bit; but this is low center of gravity is a boon
a lot of flashes as a pick pocket on defense too
yea I'd still take Bruno for sure..despite down 3pt % numbers.. G league the last few years and last NBA season he shot the 3 well.. do i trust it completely no, but i trust he can at least hit like 33% if not more. his defense, I still believe can be impactful here and there ya...
I believe he could run PG for short periods of time or run tandem with Caruso like you mentioned. That could develop into a nice defensive backcourt. Just for comparison I feel Melton is more of a PG than THT. He needs a solid summer working with trainers for sure to tighten his body.
That's how I feel about Caboclo. If he could provide 15-18 minutes of solid defense any offense would be a bonus.
Ya Melton plays the PG role better than Caruso and THT - better than THT simply cuz he seems to be looking to pass first this year.. And better than Caruso because he's smaller and can get into crevices in the P&R, and beat his defender more naturally...all 3 do or will suffer from the typical awkwardness that converted PGs suffer from - they get stuck in awkward spots, picking up their dribble in the P&R, that stuff.... so without quickness as a tool, idk how THT will avoid those mistakes.. I know smart fans who think THT should stay as a lead ball handler though...
And Bruno also is versatile defensively... you could throw him out there at Center and he wouldn't object...if he's shooting well for a stretch and has gravity.. if the Center is like Capela size, he could fair decently and space the floor for AD. although AD should matchup w Capela without objection anyway.
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