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iimarshon Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2007 Posts: 2673
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:14 am Post subject: |
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1. What's a bigger need? A scoring guard (Rose) or a bigger wing defender (Covington)?
2. If we traded for Rose and got Markieff included can he help guard guys like Kawhi? Ive always thought he was more of a 4/5 whereas Marcus is more of a 4/3, so not sure if Kief could help in terms of getting a bigger wing defender type.
3. Can Darren Collison be a scoring/creating guard? I know he can shoot 3's effectively, has good assists and plays good D but is he a creator/attacker too? I hadn't paid a ton of attention to Collison.
I think we should sign Collison either way. Even if we get Rose, Collison can start and Rose can be the scoring punch off the bench.
My concern with Rose is im not sure he will close games with us since he hasn't been a good 3pt shooter this season and isn't a great defender.
I am open to trading Kuzma but just want to make sure we're not being too shortsighted.
If we traded Kuz for RoCo and signed Collison, my concern is, are we still short another playmaker? When we play good defenses its obvious when we have a big need for someone like Rose.
But I also think games like Celtics -- and when we play Kawhi -- show that we need someone bigger that KCP/Green who can guard guys like Kawhi. _________________ 24 |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:15 am Post subject: |
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Jesusdelonla wrote: | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | anth2000 wrote: | I don't think adding Rose makes our team better... |
his passing is super impressive this year. I'd be surprised if there's 10 better passers in the league |
Sure but not for kuzma. Need 3 back and Morris is not the one
Every team that has super long wings has tortured the Lakers: clippers, bucks, Boston and even magic
U trade kuzma for rose that wing position gets super thin |
I don't think Kuz is stopping that... Morris is solid |
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2019 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 10786
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:15 am Post subject: |
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anth2000 wrote: | I don't think adding Rose makes our team better... |
I've gone back and forth on this. Would he make us more dangerous off the bench and play the Lou Will role? Yes. Is trading Kuzma for him a wise choice? No. But, we need to all we can to win this year and worry about the future in the future.
I personally feel if we can make it Kuzma, Daniels, and Cook for Rose and Morris then sign Collison, we'd be a great shape but it's tough to lose Kuzma for "so little".
McGee, Dwight, Boogie
AD, Morris, Dudley
LeBron, KCP
Green, Bradley, Caruso
Collison, Rose, Rondo
I mean, I guess if it were Marcus Morris that would excite me. |
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iimarshon Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2007 Posts: 2673
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:16 am Post subject: |
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I would feel better trading Kuz for Rose if we could also get someone like Crowder in the deal. Which isn't possible though.
So it makes me wonder if the best path is trading Kuz for Covington and then signing Collison.
or if we're better off doing something like
Kuz for Rose/Kief plus either Svi or 2nd round picks
And then signing Collison
And hope someone like Mo Harklless gets dealt and bought out. _________________ 24 |
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levon Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2016 Posts: 10353
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:17 am Post subject: |
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I'm a proponent of getting both Rose and Collison, and picking up a defensive wing from the buyout market. Actually, I don't care how they get them, but all 3 would be ideal to me. It's not either-or with Collison as folks are making it. We have no idea how he'll play, let alone if he'll sign with us. We don't even know if he's healthy right now. As long as he hasn't signed a contract with us, we have to proceed as if he's still handing out pamphlets.
Players I would be okay with losing for this to happen:
Rondo
Kuzma
Bradley
Daniels |
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iimarshon Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2007 Posts: 2673
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:18 am Post subject: |
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2019 wrote: | anth2000 wrote: | I don't think adding Rose makes our team better... |
I've gone back and forth on this. Would he make us more dangerous off the bench and play the Lou Will role? Yes. Is trading Kuzma for him a wise choice? No. But, we need to all we can to win this year and worry about the future in the future.
I personally feel if we can make it Kuzma, Daniels, and Cook for Rose and Morris then sign Collison, we'd be a great shape but it's tough to lose Kuzma for "so little".
McGee, Dwight, Boogie
AD, Morris, Dudley
LeBron, KCP
Green, Bradley, Caruso
Collison, Rose, Rondo
I mean, I guess if it were Marcus Morris that would excite me. |
I dont hate this but my concern is i still think we're thing on bigger wing defenders.
KCP and Green aren't good against Kawhi. They're better against 1's and 2's.
Im not sure if Kief can guard wings. He feels more like a 4 to me. _________________ 24 |
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iimarshon Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2007 Posts: 2673
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:19 am Post subject: |
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levon wrote: | I'm a proponent of getting both Rose and Collison, and picking up a defensive wing from the buyout market. Actually, I don't care how they get them, but all 3 would be ideal to me. It's not either-or with Collison as folks are making it. We have no idea how he'll play, let alone if he'll sign with us. We don't even know if he's healthy right now. As long as he hasn't signed a contract with us, we have to proceed as if he's still handing out pamphlets.
Players I would be okay with losing for this to happen:
Rondo
Kuzma
Bradley
Daniels |
If we do this, i think we need to hope that a wing like Mo Harkless gets deat and then bought out.
Collison
Green
LeBron
AD
Javale
w/ Rose as our 6th man is nice.
But also makes me wonder: what value does Avery Bradley have then? Cos id almost rather play Caruso at the 2 at that point and I wonder if Avery Bradley's salary ballast could be more valuable. _________________ 24 |
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scoobs Star Player
Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 4746
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:20 am Post subject: |
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It kind of bothers me that the Lakers are rumored to be looking at Rose. Sure he is a good passer and he is really good at making lay ups, but i'm not sure that is our greatest need right now. Maybe if we are offering something like Bradley and THT, but I hope we could get more value for Kuzma. Unless Detroit wanted to throw in Kennard or Suku, then sure. |
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Jesusdelonla Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jan 2018 Posts: 15430
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:26 am Post subject: |
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KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | Jesusdelonla wrote: | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | anth2000 wrote: | I don't think adding Rose makes our team better... |
his passing is super impressive this year. I'd be surprised if there's 10 better passers in the league |
Sure but not for kuzma. Need 3 back and Morris is not the one
Every team that has super long wings has tortured the Lakers: clippers, bucks, Boston and even magic
U trade kuzma for rose that wing position gets super thin |
I don't think Kuz is stopping that... Morris is solid |
I know he isnt. But I would love to trade kuzma for that wing like Covington/A Gordan then trade him for Rose |
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Jesusdelonla Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jan 2018 Posts: 15430
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:34 am Post subject: |
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scoobs wrote: | It kind of bothers me that the Lakers are rumored to be looking at Rose. Sure he is a good passer and he is really good at making lay ups, but i'm not sure that is our greatest need right now. Maybe if we are offering something like Bradley and THT, but I hope we could get more value for Kuzma. Unless Detroit wanted to throw in Kennard or Suku, then sure. |
i agree with this. we need a D wing and then an initiator. |
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scoobs Star Player
Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 4746
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:37 am Post subject: |
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I mentioned this before and it didn't go over well, but Caruso is a great trade chip. |
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2019 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 10786
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:37 am Post subject: |
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iimarshon wrote: | 2019 wrote: | anth2000 wrote: | I don't think adding Rose makes our team better... |
I've gone back and forth on this. Would he make us more dangerous off the bench and play the Lou Will role? Yes. Is trading Kuzma for him a wise choice? No. But, we need to all we can to win this year and worry about the future in the future.
I personally feel if we can make it Kuzma, Daniels, and Cook for Rose and Morris then sign Collison, we'd be a great shape but it's tough to lose Kuzma for "so little".
McGee, Dwight, Boogie
AD, Morris, Dudley
LeBron, KCP
Green, Bradley, Caruso
Collison, Rose, Rondo
I mean, I guess if it were Marcus Morris that would excite me. |
I dont hate this but my concern is i still think we're thing on bigger wing defenders.
KCP and Green aren't good against Kawhi. They're better against 1's and 2's.
Im not sure if Kief can guard wings. He feels more like a 4 to me. |
I'm with you but who are the big wings available? I mean, Iggy is a possibility but outside him who can we realistically expect to trade for/sign?
Personally I feel like Collison + 1 or 2 true defensive wings is enough to put us over the top but I also acknowledge Rose would give our bench a big big boost -- the one we were hoping Kuz would be consistent at. |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:40 am Post subject: |
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scoobs wrote: | I mentioned this before and it didn't go over well, but Caruso is a great trade chip. |
he's a decent one... and after Kuz we might not have any decent chips but him... so yea, he should be on the trade table..
as others have pointed out, if we sign Collison; there's no guarantee that Caruso gets 15mpg.... and i don't even trust him to make the spark plays in more than 1 game in a Clips or Bucks series |
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iimarshon Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2007 Posts: 2673
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:44 am Post subject: |
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2019 wrote: | iimarshon wrote: | 2019 wrote: | anth2000 wrote: | I don't think adding Rose makes our team better... |
I've gone back and forth on this. Would he make us more dangerous off the bench and play the Lou Will role? Yes. Is trading Kuzma for him a wise choice? No. But, we need to all we can to win this year and worry about the future in the future.
I personally feel if we can make it Kuzma, Daniels, and Cook for Rose and Morris then sign Collison, we'd be a great shape but it's tough to lose Kuzma for "so little".
McGee, Dwight, Boogie
AD, Morris, Dudley
LeBron, KCP
Green, Bradley, Caruso
Collison, Rose, Rondo
I mean, I guess if it were Marcus Morris that would excite me. |
I dont hate this but my concern is i still think we're thing on bigger wing defenders.
KCP and Green aren't good against Kawhi. They're better against 1's and 2's.
Im not sure if Kief can guard wings. He feels more like a 4 to me. |
I'm with you but who are the big wings available? I mean, Iggy is a possibility but outside him who can we realistically expect to trade for/sign?
Personally I feel like Collison + 1 or 2 true defensive wings is enough to put us over the top but I also acknowledge Rose would give our bench a big big boost -- the one we were hoping Kuz would be consistent at. |
With Grizzlies probably keeping Crowder.
Covington is the best wing defender we could trade for.
We cant get Marcus Morris. I think he gets dealt, not traded.
Mo Harkless could be bought out if traded. _________________ 24 |
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iimarshon Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2007 Posts: 2673
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:45 am Post subject: |
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scoobs wrote: | I mentioned this before and it didn't go over well, but Caruso is a great trade chip. |
I think we trade Kuz but keep Caruso.
But if we get Collison and/or Rose, what place does Bradley have?
I personally like Caruso more than Bradley at this point. _________________ 24 |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:46 am Post subject: |
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anth2000 wrote: | I don't think adding Rose makes our team better... |
As usual it depends on the trade, what is outgoing. Detroit won’t be giving him away so it likely would be a negative sum deal. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:47 am Post subject: |
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iimarshon wrote: | scoobs wrote: | I mentioned this before and it didn't go over well, but Caruso is a great trade chip. |
I think we trade Kuz but keep Caruso.
But if we get Collison and/or Rose, what place does Bradley have?
I personally like Caruso more than Bradley at this point. |
but the players, and seemingly the coaches too, like Bradley more... and he's better with the ball offensively in the halfcourt.. the realistic question i think, what place does Caruso have if we get Collison? |
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anth2000 Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001 Posts: 12070 Location: Pasadena, CA
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:57 am Post subject: |
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By the way, I have read nothing about the Lakers interest in Rose at all, except here on this site. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:00 am Post subject: |
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anth2000 wrote: | By the way, I have read nothing about the Lakers interest in Rose at all, except here on this site. |
There was a tweet that I saw but it might have come from here. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Chris Haynes reported it.
Quote: | Chris Haynes
@ChrisBHaynes
19h
Yahoo Sources: Los Angeles Lakers, Philadelphia 76ers among teams that have expressed interest in trading for Detroit Pistons star Derrick Rose. |
_________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:09 am Post subject: |
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If we are talking about Rose, it may mean that the Lakers do not have high hopes on Collison.
I am not a fan of Rose, but for 8-10 minute bursts when Lebron sits, he can be useful if that is the role he accepts. Frank Vogel would have to really avoid the temptation of playing Rose too many minutes because it can work against you. You don't want Lebron and AD watching Rose dribble. You also want to have team chemistry which is something historically Rose has been very bad at. I do see value in him as an instant scorer, instant offense guy, something Kuzma has value in but is inconsistent. If you have Rose and Kuzma, your bench has no 2 guys that can just go off on you.
The question is what Detroit would ask. They would not do Rose a favor would they, and send him to a contender? We would probably be able to swing a Rose for Cook trade, since Cook would get PT with Detroit and maybe that is what Cook would want.
Detroit is in rebuild mode trade wise. They are probably looking for a future asset in their moves .... They also want to move Drummond, and I'm sure if they could, they would move Blake.
Would they have interest in THT? Daniels and THT? Or Quinn and THT? Would they do that?
Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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troy Star Player
Joined: 30 Jan 2013 Posts: 4973
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:10 am Post subject: |
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I like our team chemistry, but if someone had to go, it would be Mr. Avery Bradley. |
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iimarshon Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2007 Posts: 2673
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:11 am Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | If we are talking about Rose, it may mean that the Lakers do not have high hopes on Collison.
I am not a fan of Rose, but for 8-10 minute bursts when Lebron sits, he can be useful if that is the role he accepts. Frank Vogel would have to really avoid the temptation of playing Rose too many minutes because it can work against you.
The question is what Detroit would ask. They would not do Rose a favor would they, and send him to a contender? We would probably be able to swing a Rose for Cook trade, since Cook would get PT with Detroit and maybe that is what Cook would want.
Detroit is in rebuild mode trade wise. They are probably looking for a future asset in their moves .... They also want to move Drummond, and I'm sure if they could, they would move Blake. |
Not sure THT + 2nd rounders gets it done so we're probably looking at Kuzma for Rose + Morris _________________ 24 |
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Jesusdelonla Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jan 2018 Posts: 15430
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:11 am Post subject: |
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troy wrote: | I like our team chemistry, but if someone had to go, it would be Mr. Avery Bradley. |
all these can go in squence via trade:
Rondo
Avery
Daniels
Cook
Caruso
Kuzma
Dumb Mcgee
in that order |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:15 am Post subject: |
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troy wrote: | I like our team chemistry, but if someone had to go, it would be Mr. Avery Bradley. |
See no reason Detroit would do that. I think Detroit will simply want a draft pick, or a young asset.
Rose makes about 7M right? I think we would be able to swing the deal using Cook, Daniels, and THT. I think the deal works salary wise. The Pistons get a pretty young backup combo guard in Cook, and they get a guy with potential in THT.
THT and Cook are klutch assets though.
IMO Kuzma is major overpaying for Rose. |
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