| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
CamReddish
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 7937
|
 Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| King Randle wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | LBJ23 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | The Rob Pelinka thread is missing quite a few apologies. He assembled one of the best rosters in the league from scratch, and fans whine about it not being perfect. |
Disagree. If we win a title this season, I'll tip my cap to Pelinka. But the roster is based an all-in strategy built around two superstars. The rest of the roster is okay, but that's about it. We unloaded our draft picks and loaded up on older players to get to this point. If we fall short of a title, whether it be due to injuries, bad luck, or just a hot opponent, I won't be tipping my cap to Pelinka. The league doesn't hand out rings in March. |
And even if they win a title this year, did they set themselves up to win next year as well? What about after that? Those little margin moves add up, and it might not hamper us this year, but could in the future. And in this town, sometimes it's not even enough just to win once...we want repeats and threepeats. |
Interesting thought experiment.
Would one give Rob a pass for the roster having a couple of holes if we win it this year.
Re: Aeneas' post. Wasn't the Shaq/Kobe roster similar in terms of being an all-in 2 star roster? And no, I'm not comparing Bron/AD to Kobe/Shaq. Just talking about the aspect of going all in with 2 stars.
I feel like if I had to go another year with Lebron and the kids fighting with Utah for the 4th spot, I'd be pissed. |
As Mark Cuban said: "Shaq, Kobe & the Merry Men of Minimum."
If you look at the last 5 Laker champions:
99-00: started 62-year old, sub .400 shooting Ron Harper at PG & 63-year old AC Green at PF.
00-01: rotated 63-year old Harper with injured Derek Fisher at PG, backup C was Greg Foster. 35-year old Horace Grant started at PF.
01-02: Samaki F. Walker.
08-09: 80-year old DFish at PG, Luke F. Walton at SF.
09-10: Except for DFish, that team had no holes. |
The Shaq-Kobe Lakers had Fox and Horry, two role players better than any one on this year’s team. |
Horry and Fox at that stage in their career weren't better than Howard is now, weren't better than Bradley or KCP are now. Fox was about as good as Danny Green is now. Horry was probably about as good as Morris is now. |
Wow |
Sorry LBJ...have to agree with Ventura here. |
If we are basing it on numbers, it is about even with the guys I names. The rings add to it, but the guys I listed have a chance to do it this season and Green already has. Pure numbers and advance stats show Horry and Fox while on the Lakers were about as good as guys like Green, KCP, Bradley, Howard, and Morris.
_________________
Previously LBJ23 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Pureshot77
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 898
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I guess you can prefer going with all low risk deals where you feel like you are dealing with a known value but that's not how you push the risk/reward curve in portfolio management. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
King Randle
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2014
Posts: 7313
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LBJ23 wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | LBJ23 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | The Rob Pelinka thread is missing quite a few apologies. He assembled one of the best rosters in the league from scratch, and fans whine about it not being perfect. |
Disagree. If we win a title this season, I'll tip my cap to Pelinka. But the roster is based an all-in strategy built around two superstars. The rest of the roster is okay, but that's about it. We unloaded our draft picks and loaded up on older players to get to this point. If we fall short of a title, whether it be due to injuries, bad luck, or just a hot opponent, I won't be tipping my cap to Pelinka. The league doesn't hand out rings in March. |
And even if they win a title this year, did they set themselves up to win next year as well? What about after that? Those little margin moves add up, and it might not hamper us this year, but could in the future. And in this town, sometimes it's not even enough just to win once...we want repeats and threepeats. |
Interesting thought experiment.
Would one give Rob a pass for the roster having a couple of holes if we win it this year.
Re: Aeneas' post. Wasn't the Shaq/Kobe roster similar in terms of being an all-in 2 star roster? And no, I'm not comparing Bron/AD to Kobe/Shaq. Just talking about the aspect of going all in with 2 stars.
I feel like if I had to go another year with Lebron and the kids fighting with Utah for the 4th spot, I'd be pissed. |
As Mark Cuban said: "Shaq, Kobe & the Merry Men of Minimum."
If you look at the last 5 Laker champions:
99-00: started 62-year old, sub .400 shooting Ron Harper at PG & 63-year old AC Green at PF.
00-01: rotated 63-year old Harper with injured Derek Fisher at PG, backup C was Greg Foster. 35-year old Horace Grant started at PF.
01-02: Samaki F. Walker.
08-09: 80-year old DFish at PG, Luke F. Walton at SF.
09-10: Except for DFish, that team had no holes. |
The Shaq-Kobe Lakers had Fox and Horry, two role players better than any one on this year’s team. |
Horry and Fox at that stage in their career weren't better than Howard is now, weren't better than Bradley or KCP are now. Fox was about as good as Danny Green is now. Horry was probably about as good as Morris is now. |
Wow |
Sorry LBJ...have to agree with Ventura here. |
If we are basing it on numbers, it is about even with the guys I names. The rings add to it, but the guys I listed have a chance to do it this season and Green already has. Pure numbers and advance stats show Horry and Fox while on the Lakers were about as good as guys like Green, KCP, Bradley, Howard, and Morris. |
Stat wise sure....but Horry and Fox played their roles to perfection. They played exceptional defense and hit big shots when needed. Green I disagree he's been ok...but way too inconsistent. KCP has had a nice year...Howard has played great in a limited role and Morris just got here. Horry and Fox really stepped up in the play-offs...let's see if these guys will. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerSD
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23788
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JUST-MING
Retired Number
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 43990
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I still can’t believe Golden St. signed Dangelo Russell to a max contract just to trade him  . |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vasashi17+
Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5613
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JUST-MING wrote: | | I still can’t believe Golden St. signed Dangelo Russell to a max contract just to trade him . |
I thought it was smart. Sure it cost them Iggy and made them have to make cuts do to being hardcapped (see renouncing Cook among other things)...but at least they didn’t lose KD for nothing in return. Rosas is going to most likely bring the Wolves back to contention eventually, but getting a former 1st in Wiggins, a top 3 protected 2021 Wolves pick (that goes unprotected in 2022) and a likely high to mid 2nd round pick in 2021 isn’t a bad get for a guy that was already heading out the door as an UFA.
#AssetManagement |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hype
Star Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 4377
Location: Lake Nacimiento
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| vasashi17+ wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | I still can’t believe Golden St. signed Dangelo Russell to a max contract just to trade him . |
I thought it was smart. Sure it cost them Iggy and made them have to make cuts do to being hardcapped (see renouncing Cook among other things)...but at least they didn’t lose KD for nothing in return. Rosas is going to most likely bring the Wolves back to contention eventually, but getting a former 1st in Wiggins, a top 3 protected 2021 Wolves pick (that goes unprotected in 2022) and a likely high to mid 2nd round pick in 2021 isn’t a bad get for a guy that was already heading out the door as an UFA.
#AssetManagement |
If the Bucks have another underwhelming post season Giannis could start getting much more aggressive about moving on and if the Bucks believe he could leave they might start looking at offers and GS could very well be the best offer on the table. I really hope that doesn't happen and don't think it's likely but the possibility is def. there.
That was a pretty great move by there front office regardless though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
epic_
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| vasashi17+ wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | I still can’t believe Golden St. signed Dangelo Russell to a max contract just to trade him . |
I thought it was smart. Sure it cost them Iggy and made them have to make cuts do to being hardcapped (see renouncing Cook among other things)...but at least they didn’t lose KD for nothing in return. Rosas is going to most likely bring the Wolves back to contention eventually, but getting a former 1st in Wiggins, a top 3 protected 2021 Wolves pick (that goes unprotected in 2022) and a likely high to mid 2nd round pick in 2021 isn’t a bad get for a guy that was already heading out the door as an UFA.
#AssetManagement |
Yep, it was a good move by them.
Although no one foresaw Steph getting hurt and them missing the playoffs, that turned out well for them too.
They have assets, so it will be interesting to see what they do with it. As the team is constructed right now, I wonder if they are contenders. I'm leaning towards no. But lets see what Myers does.
_________________
💜💛 🏆 👀 🍖 #18!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
2019
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10812
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| hype wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | I still can’t believe Golden St. signed Dangelo Russell to a max contract just to trade him . |
I thought it was smart. Sure it cost them Iggy and made them have to make cuts do to being hardcapped (see renouncing Cook among other things)...but at least they didn’t lose KD for nothing in return. Rosas is going to most likely bring the Wolves back to contention eventually, but getting a former 1st in Wiggins, a top 3 protected 2021 Wolves pick (that goes unprotected in 2022) and a likely high to mid 2nd round pick in 2021 isn’t a bad get for a guy that was already heading out the door as an UFA.
#AssetManagement |
If the Bucks have another underwhelming post season Giannis could start getting much more aggressive about moving on and if the Bucks believe he could leave they might start looking at offers and GS could very well be the best offer on the table. I really hope that doesn't happen and don't think it's likely but the possibility is def. there.
That was a pretty great move by there front office regardless though. |
GS has set themselves up quite nicely... a top 3 pick this year, all their picks going forward, a veteran core that got a season of rest, a group of young players they had a full season to develop, etc.
In theory I agree that they might just have the assets to pry Giannis if he demands a trade... but that all hinges on their lotto pick this year being an absolute stud... he must look like a star. IF so, then sure. But seeing how weak this draft is, I don't see that guy being available. Last year? sure. This year? Nah.
Either way, it'll be interesting to see how to move forward. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JUST-MING wrote: | | I still can’t believe Golden St. signed Dangelo Russell to a max contract just to trade him . |
They signed Russell to a max contract to avoid losing Durant for nothing.
I suspect they always intended to trade him, rather than have all that money tied up in three guards. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JPaulK0n
Star Player
Joined: 06 Feb 2018
Posts: 2478
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Haynes just said that DeRozan is going to declined his player option and become a free agent this summer, with the Knicks being listed as a suitor.  DeRozan Lakers pipedreams again like its 2016? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
epic_
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JPaulK0n wrote: | | Haynes just said that DeRozan is going to declined his player option and become a free agent this summer, with the Knicks being listed as a suitor. DeRozan Lakers pipedreams again like its 2016? |
Derozen gonna join the Lakers for the MLE. Crazy.
_________________
💜💛 🏆 👀 🍖 #18!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29353
Location: La La Land
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I was happy when WOJ announced Boogie was joining on a minimum deal, meaning no cap space was used. Then it was corrected to 3.5m. That made it not as great for me. |
All these injuries have made him un-signable IMO. That Achilles is a death nail in the coffin. But I didn’t mind the signing last July.
His ability to play make as a big man on the perimeter is the type of thing that adds a new dimension to the simplistic offense we run.
Even now, I really wish he had a playable rim defender big who could set hard screens and work from the top of key. That dimension is what separates Denver from a lot of lotto teams. And a pre-Achilles Cousins is probably a better screener and P&R defender than Jokic (while also being a good but less efficient scorer and passer).
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JPaulK0n
Star Player
Joined: 06 Feb 2018
Posts: 2478
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| epic_ wrote: | | JPaulK0n wrote: | | Haynes just said that DeRozan is going to declined his player option and become a free agent this summer, with the Knicks being listed as a suitor. DeRozan Lakers pipedreams again like its 2016? |
Derozen gonna join the Lakers for the MLE. Crazy. |
It would have to be through a sign & trade. But, doubt the Spurs would be willingly to even do a sign & trade with the Lakers. He would fit as the 3rd scorer and 3rd star on the team, to go along with being another ball handler that is really good out of the pick n roll. He would be bad for spacing and is a bad defender. Would only see Lakers doing this type of deal as a last ditch effort if they don't win the finals this year. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
epic_
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JPaulK0n wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | | JPaulK0n wrote: | | Haynes just said that DeRozan is going to declined his player option and become a free agent this summer, with the Knicks being listed as a suitor. DeRozan Lakers pipedreams again like its 2016? |
Derozen gonna join the Lakers for the MLE. Crazy. |
It would have to be through a sign & trade. But, doubt the Spurs would be willingly to even do a sign & trade with the Lakers. He would fit as the 3rd scorer and 3rd star on the team, to go along with being another ball handler that is really good out of the pick n roll. He would be bad for spacing and is a bad defender. Would only see Lakers doing this type of deal as a last ditch effort if they don't win the finals this year. |
Yea, most likely won't happen.
BTW, I wasn't calling you crazy... I was saying he should come here for the MLE Which would be crazy.
_________________
💜💛 🏆 👀 🍖 #18!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JPaulK0n
Star Player
Joined: 06 Feb 2018
Posts: 2478
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| epic_ wrote: | | JPaulK0n wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | | JPaulK0n wrote: | | Haynes just said that DeRozan is going to declined his player option and become a free agent this summer, with the Knicks being listed as a suitor. DeRozan Lakers pipedreams again like its 2016? |
Derozen gonna join the Lakers for the MLE. Crazy. |
It would have to be through a sign & trade. But, doubt the Spurs would be willingly to even do a sign & trade with the Lakers. He would fit as the 3rd scorer and 3rd star on the team, to go along with being another ball handler that is really good out of the pick n roll. He would be bad for spacing and is a bad defender. Would only see Lakers doing this type of deal as a last ditch effort if they don't win the finals this year. |
Yea, most likely won't happen.
BTW, I wasn't calling you crazy... I was saying he should come here for the MLE Which would be crazy. |
No worries |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRoost
Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2017
Posts: 4798
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JUST-MING wrote: | | I still can’t believe Golden St. signed Dangelo Russell to a max contract just to trade him . |
That was underrated move. They could have lost KD for nothing . And dumping Iggy for a meaningless season was another brilliant move. That trade exception could be a solid player. If they can tap that Wiggins potential then they could an intriguing team again. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Inspector Gadget
Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46684
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Joe Pesci was the 1 who bought up Josh Jackson a lot when we needed to shore up our SF depth.. well looks like he’s been playing really well. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
epic_
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Joe Pesci was the 1 who bought up Josh Jackson a lot when we needed to shore up our SF depth.. well looks like he’s been playing really well. |
Who do you think sits when Justice Winslow comes back?
_________________
💜💛 🏆 👀 🍖 #18!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
l4kerz
Star Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 1572
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CRoost wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | I still can’t believe Golden St. signed Dangelo Russell to a max contract just to trade him . |
That was underrated move. They could have lost KD for nothing . And dumping Iggy for a meaningless season was another brilliant move. That trade exception could be a solid player. If they can tap that Wiggins potential then they could an intriguing team again. |
I think Wiggins will be flipped as well.
I'm sure GS will go after AD this summer, but AD will choose legacy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mamba81
Star Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2019
Posts: 2027
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| l4kerz wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | I still can’t believe Golden St. signed Dangelo Russell to a max contract just to trade him . |
That was underrated move. They could have lost KD for nothing . And dumping Iggy for a meaningless season was another brilliant move. That trade exception could be a solid player. If they can tap that Wiggins potential then they could an intriguing team again. |
I think Wiggins will be flipped as well.
I'm sure GS will go after AD this summer, but AD will choose legacy. |
they can sign ad? damn. they would be title favorites easily
_________________
Kobe Forever |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hero Ball
Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2015
Posts: 4403
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mamba81 wrote: | | l4kerz wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | I still can’t believe Golden St. signed Dangelo Russell to a max contract just to trade him . |
That was underrated move. They could have lost KD for nothing . And dumping Iggy for a meaningless season was another brilliant move. That trade exception could be a solid player. If they can tap that Wiggins potential then they could an intriguing team again. |
I think Wiggins will be flipped as well.
I'm sure GS will go after AD this summer, but AD will choose legacy. |
they can sign ad? damn. they would be title favorites easily |
they are after the Freak. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26389
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
The Warriors will be either after AD or Giannis.
Till then they are going to be hoping that Wiggins continues to progress and potentially finds his potential.
Next to a healthy Steph and Klay, they are already pretty much great contenders in the West. But it'd take a healthy year from all 3 of them at high level.
If worst came to worst, Wiggins would be a trade chip in a deal for a superstar.
For example, if AD stated he wanted to go to the Warriors, the Lakers could ask for Wiggins in a sign and trade like what they did with Brooklyn to get Russell for KD.
Same thing they could do with Milwaukee if Giannis decided he was out.
The Warriors are playing chess. ON TOP OF THAT if they get a top 3 pick this year that is also a trade piece.
Essentially they could potentially have a Top 3 Pick + Wiggins as trade chips for this draft and otherwise. If the Warriors got the Number 1 pick, and AD said he was going to leave and the Warriors came offering us Wiggins + the 1st Pick, we'd have to take it.
Or if Giannis was feeling disgruntled if Milwaukee fails this year, and Giannis starts hinting he may not stick around when his contract ends, the Warriors would have those two things to wave at teams.
If Wiggins is healthy, their 'worst' case scenario in that instance, is keeping Wiggins and drafting James Wiseman... which is a pretty great 'worst case scenario' for the Warriors of what happens with their assets.
So the Warriors are looking at 3 options
Curry, Klay, Giannis
Curry, Klay, AD
Curry, Klay, Wiggins, Wiseman
Either one of those is a great situation for them off this season.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PenG_
Franchise Player
Joined: 01 Feb 2020
Posts: 10482
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Steph Curry has pretty much lucked his way into a great legacy of championship basketball. Amazing player, but no organization has done more to surround their star with talent. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| MJST wrote: | The Warriors will be either after AD or Giannis.
Till then they are going to be hoping that Wiggins continues to progress and potentially finds his potential.
Next to a healthy Steph and Klay, they are already pretty much great contenders in the West. But it'd take a healthy year from all 3 of them at high level.
If worst came to worst, Wiggins would be a trade chip in a deal for a superstar.
For example, if AD stated he wanted to go to the Warriors, the Lakers could ask for Wiggins in a sign and trade like what they did with Brooklyn to get Russell for KD.
Same thing they could do with Milwaukee if Giannis decided he was out.
The Warriors are playing chess. ON TOP OF THAT if they get a top 3 pick this year that is also a trade piece.
Essentially they could potentially have a Top 3 Pick + Wiggins as trade chips for this draft and otherwise. If the Warriors got the Number 1 pick, and AD said he was going to leave and the Warriors came offering us Wiggins + the 1st Pick, we'd have to take it.
Or if Giannis was feeling disgruntled if Milwaukee fails this year, and Giannis starts hinting he may not stick around when his contract ends, the Warriors would have those two things to wave at teams.
If Wiggins is healthy, their 'worst' case scenario in that instance, is keeping Wiggins and drafting James Wiseman... which is a pretty great 'worst case scenario' for the Warriors of what happens with their assets.
So the Warriors are looking at 3 options
Curry, Klay, Giannis
Curry, Klay, AD
Curry, Klay, Wiggins, Wiseman
Either one of those is a great situation for them off this season. |
What makes you think AD wants to go to the Warriors? Paranoid much?
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
