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LakerMindLA
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 5344
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 Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | I really hope the Clippers don't get Lonzo. |
I hope they do. He would be unplayable in the playoffs. He is a soft and scared player.
Right now Lonzo is more concerned with making rap singles than playing basketball. It is probably why he has released more songs than made FTs this year. |
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ChickenStu
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Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 31925
Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah there's no reason to have Lonzo or Redick on this team right now, they wouldn't play ahead of anyone we have, never mind trading for them and thus giving up assets. If Redick got bought out and were a bench-warmer that could maybe get hot if you threw him into a game, fine. That's as far as I'm willing to go with him. As for Lonzo, I mean, it's just not happening. His 19-year-old brother is already a lot better than he is. |
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Swagron12
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Joined: 27 Sep 2020
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | I know Caruso is a big time fan favorite but would you guys trade him for Lonzo Ball? |
Lol... I’m glad some of you guys don’t run the Lakers. Anyone wanting Ball or Reddick isn’t a Laker (or basketball) fan. |
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ThePageDude
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 2589
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| King Randle wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | | troy wrote: |
Oh, and I've already proven that Javele is better than Gasol. I took the time to break it down; if anyone disagrees, I'd be happy to see your analysis. |
No - you stated your opinion, you reject any tangible evidence. |
I'm not so sure about McGee...but Dwight is much better defensively and I would argue offensively with lobs...Marc is supposed to be stretch center...problem is he doesn't even average one 3 pointer a game. I know there are a lot of Gasol fans here that say "just wait." We heard that with Green last year too. I'll wait. |
Agreed on Dwight, I wish we hadn't lost him. However Gasol wasn't acquired in lieu of Howard, he was acquired as the best available AFTER Howard decided to leave. So if we are to weigh actual choices the front-office made, they chose to acquire Gasol and trade Javale. |
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lurklurk
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Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Posts: 621
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:38 am Post subject: |
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Marc is playing quality minutes for his minimum salary, we already saw what he can be capable of as a playmaking stretch big. He’ll play even better in the playoffs when his basketball iq will manifest more via adjustments, playmaking and defensive positioning. Compared to dwight and javale who both got played off the court last postseason.
It’s hard to admit but if i have to choose someone, trez is the odd man out in our bigs rotation. 2nd highest in salary (among bigs) yet cant space the floor nor protect the rim. His value right now is to provide offensive threat from our frontcourt when AD is resting. When he shares the floor with AD, AD needs to work harder on defense as sole rim protector while being forced away from the basket on offense so their spacing wont get messed up. Honestly, the only reason i dont mind the trez signing is because we still have the AD-kief-lebron frontcourt we can rely on. |
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SPO200
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Joined: 28 Jun 2018
Posts: 1458
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:59 am Post subject: |
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KCP, Schröder, Caruso, 2027 first round pick and all the second rounds that we have for Bradley Beal?  |
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waterman40
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Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts: 6287
Location: Central Coast
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| SPO200 wrote: | | KCP, Schröder, Caruso, 2027 first round pick and all the second rounds that we have for Bradley Beal? |
Next year, I could see a re-signed Schroder, Kuzma, and pieces for Bradley Beal.
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| waterman40 wrote: | | SPO200 wrote: | | KCP, Schröder, Caruso, 2027 first round pick and all the second rounds that we have for Bradley Beal? |
Next year, I could see a re-signed Schroder, Kuzma, and pieces for Bradley Beal. |
That should be an idea of why the Lakers should re-sign Dennis to a tradeable deal, and have very tradeable pieces in KCP/Kuz too. The whole point is to be flexible and we will start having some of our 1sts to trade in the near horizon too.
And if we don't trade them, you have very competent and good players on reasonable deals. Win-win.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:22 am Post subject: |
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There is no way we are getting Bradley Beal for that kind of package. The league is a copy cat league, and the way it is doing things right now for all-stars still in their prime, a TON of 1st round picks, and pick swaps, then some young assets.
We would have to re-direct players to a 3rd team, to get the 1st round picks (maybe 2-3). Then use THT (A key piece in any trade).
No one wants to trade a guy like Bradley Beal for a bunch of supporting role players on starting level contacts (10-15M) without anything to work with (for them to play around).
AD was different in that we had those young assets like THT is now, in Ingram-Ball-4th pick etc etc. Now we do not. What we could aim for is trading for guys like Russell Westbrook (not Westbrook himself but along those lines). Guys who are now borderline all-stars on the way down, who may in the right situation be an all-star again. A John Wall. Sort of like how Houston got CP3 a few years ago from the Clips ...... You probably can get guys like that. But I rather have Dennis, KCP. Kuz etc than those guys anyway. Team depth with quality 2-way guys > 3rd star who is not really worth his max contract or usage rate anymore.
Beal and guys like that, forget about it IMO. Not unless THT becomes an emerging star, in which case, why on earth would you deal him, anyway. We are not getting a 3rd star with the assets we have, not the type of in prime star that would make us happy anyway. The sort of guys we could get, I think we probably don't even want ....and prefer Dennis/KCP/Kuz etc to.
Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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King Randle
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| ThePageDude wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | | troy wrote: |
Oh, and I've already proven that Javele is better than Gasol. I took the time to break it down; if anyone disagrees, I'd be happy to see your analysis. |
No - you stated your opinion, you reject any tangible evidence. |
I'm not so sure about McGee...but Dwight is much better defensively and I would argue offensively with lobs...Marc is supposed to be stretch center...problem is he doesn't even average one 3 pointer a game. I know there are a lot of Gasol fans here that say "just wait." We heard that with Green last year too. I'll wait. |
Agreed on Dwight, I wish we hadn't lost him. However Gasol wasn't acquired in lieu of Howard, he was acquired as the best available AFTER Howard decided to leave. So if we are to weigh actual choices the front-office made, they chose to acquire Gasol and trade Javale. |
Are you sure about this? I'm not so sure...Dwight got a minimum deal from Philly...same as us...all we had to say is "Dwight hold on a few hours...we're signing Trezz and then you're next at the minimum." I'm starting to think Rob thought Marc would be a better fit...Again, don't want to beat a dead horse...but we saw what a Dwight AD front line does...and if you wanted to spread the floor bring in Kieff or Kuz like last year...But I've regressed...we're running with Marc hopefully things get better. |
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:35 am Post subject: |
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It sounds like that is what they asked him to do. He had a deal for slightly more than the minimum negotiated and they told him they need to contact the front for final approval and an hour later he was done waiting and signed with Philly. Maybe he felt disrespected but I think he likely felt like with Trez and Gasol he'd have a reduced role and that on top of feeling underappreciated drove him to leave.
It was a bad decision on his part. He would have not only made more money in L.A., but he likely would play just as many minutes as he's getting in Philly. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | There is no way we are getting Bradley Beal for that kind of package. The league is a copy cat league, and the way it is doing things right now for all-stars still in their prime, a TON of 1st round picks, and pick swaps, then some young assets.
We would have to re-direct players to a 3rd team, to get the 1st round picks (maybe 2-3). Then use THT (A key piece in any trade).
No one wants to trade a guy like Bradley Beal for a bunch of supporting role players on starting level contacts (10-15M) without anything to work with (for them to play around).
AD was different in that we had those young assets like THT is now, in Ingram-Ball-4th pick etc etc. Now we do not. What we could aim for is trading for guys like Russell Westbrook (not Westbrook himself but along those lines). Guys who are now borderline all-stars on the way down, who may in the right situation be an all-star again. A John Wall. Sort of like how Houston got CP3 a few years ago from the Clips ...... You probably can get guys like that. But I rather have Dennis, KCP. Kuz etc than those guys anyway. Team depth with quality 2-way guys > 3rd star who is not really worth his max contract or usage rate anymore.
Beal and guys like that, forget about it IMO. Not unless THT becomes an emerging star, in which case, why on earth would you deal him, anyway. We are not getting a 3rd star with the assets we have, not the type of in prime star that would make us happy anyway. The sort of guys we could get, I think we probably don't even want ....and prefer Dennis/KCP/Kuz etc to. |
Right. I don't think our trade package absent a nuclear hot THT gets us Beal either. But point stands, we have a bunch of really good role players on reasonable deals that can be aggregated to trade (not for Beal caliber players) or we roll with that core until LBJ retires and hope our cap sheet is clear where we replace him with a free agent star.
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BILBJH
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Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5125
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:46 am Post subject: |
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It's amazing how much an air of confidence can translate into the illusion of competence.
Everyone seems to be happy with Schroder... some want to sign him long term and yet he's shooting 2% below Lonzo... he's shooting threes at 29%
Beverley is considered a defensive specialist yet he still manages to shoot 52% eFG... 54% this season... and yet Schroder is down around 46% which is worse than Lonzo at 48% and IT last season at 50%... both of who have been universally ridiculed by this board for ineffectiveness.
Only Westbrook, Kelly Oubre and some rookies are shooting this poorly as starters.
I don't get it. I don't get why this guy gets a pass.
Lebron is why we are winning. If LBJ is hurt... the rest aren't going anywhere. We need to upgrade everyone except AD.
A Kuzma, Schroder, AD core only makes the Pelicans happy. |
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King Randle
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Joined: 21 Jul 2014
Posts: 7313
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | It sounds like that is what they asked him to do. He had a deal for slightly more than the minimum negotiated and they told him they need to contact the front for final approval and an hour later he was done waiting and signed with Philly. Maybe he felt disrespected but I think he likely felt like with Trez and Gasol he'd have a reduced role and that on top of feeling underappreciated drove him to leave.
It was a bad decision on his part. He would have not only made more money in L.A., but he likely would play just as many minutes as he's getting in Philly. |
Interesting...I just don't think Pelinka would've pursued Gasol if Dwight stayed...Dwight would've been the starter and Trezz off the bench like now....Kieff and Kuz if we wanted to stretch the floor. But we were hearing the Gasol interest before the FA signings...that's why I thought they told Dwight to wait...then they signed Trezz and didn't get back to Dwight...so Dwight left really opening the door to sign Gasol after trading McGee. Thanks for the info. |
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MJST
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Posts: 26389
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | I know Caruso is a big time fan favorite but would you guys trade him for Lonzo Ball? |
Pelicans likely wouldn't take that anyway. Lonzo's playing hurt right now. But I think they know he's the higher upside than Caruso but who knows.
I'd only keep Caruso if I thought his three point shooting was going to stay where it was which is around 50% right now.
If he maintains then you definitely wouldn't trade him, but it's about if you expect him to. Defensively Lonzo is better than Caruso, but it's about his health at this point. As Lonzo at 60% is a solid playmaker and defender, but his improved shot seemed to go with his health. Although the last 2 games he's played he's looked better health wise, albeit not fully there yet.
That said let me put up both these stat lines.
Player A
12.0 PPG
3.8 REB
4.7 AST
1.3 STL
39% Field Goal
29% Three Pointer
Effective Field Goal % 47.6%
and
Player B
13.6 PPG
3.8 REB
4.2 AST
1.1 STL
40% Field Goal
29% Three Pointer
Effective Field Goal % 45.7%
You look at those numbers and they'd seem pretty similar.
Well Player A is the unhealthy Lonzo Ball, Player B is the healthy Dennis Schroeder. The difference is Lonzo takes 7 threes a game and Dennis takes 3.
It's interesting to put those numbers next to each other so you can get perspective. So if New Orleans wanted to trade him because Caruso's value is sky high I'd only hang onto Caruso if I thought his three point shooting would remain at 53% because everything else he can do, Lonzo can do and at a higher level. But given all Lonzo can do, and how even unhealthy his numbers are about the same as Schroeders but his eFG is actually higher.. yeah I'd take Lonzo over Caruso. Particularly if they offered me that trade straight up.
So just something to think about.
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dcastillo
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| Does this Drummond buy out thing have legs or is it just smoke being blown? It im the Celtics I see what’s up with a trade for him. They got the 18 million dollar TPE. The need a rebounding big and it keeps the Nets from getting him |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| dcastillo wrote: | | Does this Drummond buy out thing have legs or is it just smoke being blown? It im the Celtics I see what’s up with a trade for him. They got the 18 million dollar TPE. The need a rebounding big and it keeps the Nets from getting him |
Drummond makes a ton of money. Would be interesting if the CAVS, who may actually make the playoffs, will buy him out so a superteam like the Nets or Lakers can scoop him up. (written in Dan Gilbert comic sans font).
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ThePageDude
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 2589
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| King Randle wrote: |
Are you sure about this? I'm not so sure...Dwight got a minimum deal from Philly...same as us...all we had to say is "Dwight hold on a few hours...we're signing Trezz and then you're next at the minimum." I'm starting to think Rob thought Marc would be a better fit...Again, don't want to beat a dead horse...but we saw what a Dwight AD front line does...and if you wanted to spread the floor bring in Kieff or Kuz like last year...But I've regressed...we're running with Marc hopefully things get better. |
Oh you don't have to sell me on a Dwight AD front line - against some teams and in some situations it was utterly devastating.
I haven't seen any reliable reports (and I'm happy to be educated if there are) about Gasol being a choice in *preparation/advance* of Howard's departure. The sequence of events, though, is as I've stated. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:43 am Post subject: |
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However, it's also a "Dwight being Dwight" sort of thing. He could have been on a title defending team playing more minutes than he is on the 76ers, and further enhancing his Lakers reputation. Unless the team said he would have a lesser role, Dwight sort of seemed to get hurt about not being immediately re-signed.
For the record, I really wish we had him back.
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12676
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| I wouldn't mind having Lonzo back but his value isn't very high right now. He's regressed again as a shooter after showing some promise last season. He also seems to have regressed as a player since the league shut down pre-bubble. The potential is still there but I'm not sure where the minutes are for him at his asking price. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | | I wouldn't mind having Lonzo back but his value isn't very high right now. He's regressed again as a shooter after showing some promise last season. He also seems to have regressed as a player since the league shut down pre-bubble. The potential is still there but I'm not sure where the minutes are for him at his asking price. |
Imagine if Klutch tries to bring Bledsoe AND Lonzo to the Lakers.
LA Klutch.
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BILBJH
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Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5125
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:45 am Post subject: |
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I think of Bledsoe as decent but mediocre and he shoots 7% better than Schroder.
What are we doing here? |
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Ksig
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Joined: 03 Dec 2016
Posts: 2097
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | I know Caruso is a big time fan favorite but would you guys trade him for Lonzo Ball? |
Pelicans likely wouldn't take that anyway. Lonzo's playing hurt right now. But I think they know he's the higher upside than Caruso but who knows.
I'd only keep Caruso if I thought his three point shooting was going to stay where it was which is around 50% right now.
If he maintains then you definitely wouldn't trade him, but it's about if you expect him to. Defensively Lonzo is better than Caruso, but it's about his health at this point. As Lonzo at 60% is a solid playmaker and defender, but his improved shot seemed to go with his health. Although the last 2 games he's played he's looked better health wise, albeit not fully there yet.
That said let me put up both these stat lines.
Player A
12.0 PPG
3.8 REB
4.7 AST
1.3 STL
39% Field Goal
29% Three Pointer
Effective Field Goal % 47.6%
and
Player B
13.6 PPG
3.8 REB
4.2 AST
1.1 STL
40% Field Goal
29% Three Pointer
Effective Field Goal % 45.7%
You look at those numbers and they'd seem pretty similar.
Well Player A is the unhealthy Lonzo Ball, Player B is the healthy Dennis Schroeder. The difference is Lonzo takes 7 threes a game and Dennis takes 3.
It's interesting to put those numbers next to each other so you can get perspective. So if New Orleans wanted to trade him because Caruso's value is sky high I'd only hang onto Caruso if I thought his three point shooting would remain at 53% because everything else he can do, Lonzo can do and at a higher level. But given all Lonzo can do, and how even unhealthy his numbers are about the same as Schroeders but his eFG is actually higher.. yeah I'd take Lonzo over Caruso. Particularly if they offered me that trade straight up.
So just something to think about. |
Lonzo is not a better defender than caruso.. just stop. Even without carusos improved 3 pt shooting I would still not trade him for lonzo. One is proven to be an important piece to a championship and one is struggling to keep his job on a rebuilding team. |
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17109
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| dcastillo wrote: | | Does this Drummond buy out thing have legs or is it just smoke being blown? It im the Celtics I see what’s up with a trade for him. They got the 18 million dollar TPE. The need a rebounding big and it keeps the Nets from getting him |
I LOVE Drummond. Dude is another AD defensively - blocks shots, gets steals, rebounds like no other. On offense . . . well, he makes 50% of his dunks and gets a lot of them because he's a terror on the offensive glass.
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King Randle
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2014
Posts: 7313
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | dcastillo wrote: | | Does this Drummond buy out thing have legs or is it just smoke being blown? It im the Celtics I see what’s up with a trade for him. They got the 18 million dollar TPE. The need a rebounding big and it keeps the Nets from getting him |
I LOVE Drummond. Dude is another AD defensively - blocks shots, gets steals, rebounds like no other. On offense . . . well, he makes 50% of his dunks and gets a lot of them because he's a terror on the offensive glass. |
I agree with you...IMO if the Nets or C's get him they become the favorites...he's that much of a difference maker. |
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