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Rek
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 Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | | I would trade Ingram and KCP for Beal if and only if we have no chance at FAs or the asking price for AD is too much. |
Not sure why everyone at LG keeps saying this over and over.
ZERO chance that WSH would consider that trade. Beal is their best overall player and now with Wall done for the season they aren't going to move him unless they get a very nice haul in return. And I don't blame them.
BI's trade value is clearly lower now than before the season started. People really need to come to terms with this. Yes, he could still prove to be an allstar if he gets on track. But, I think it's safe to say most GMs are less excited about Ingram than they may have been previously. |
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Zubolo
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | audioaxes wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | audioaxes wrote: | | trading for Vucevic will shut the door on us signing a Max guy this summer... unless we let him walk which means we basically burned up 2 1st rounders for a 1/2 season rental that will not get us past the Warriors |
The logic employed by many here is that we need to get AD now because we must exploit LBJ's three year window.
This gives some chance of winning this season, and also provides a backup plan in case no one wants to come.
Not first choice, but a decent idea.
People want to trade the core, but are worried about losing Mo and a first rounder in a weak draft?
Sign the elite is the best plan, but at least this is a reasonable plan b or c |
but this would not be a plan b. This would override all other plans. I do like Vucevik through and wouldnt mind him as a real plan b... signing him this off season as a FA if we cant get other guys. I'd assume we can get him for a team friendly deal so we'd still have space to fill out our roster with another solid player on a non minimum/exception contract. And finally we still have our chips to make a trade run for Davis to have a Lebron/Davis/Vucekik core and still have Ball and maybe Hart. |
People’s justification for trading the core is that we need to exploit Lebron’s three year window. So for the cost of Mo, Zu and a pick you get one shot at the title this year.
Then if we sign an elite agent we just let Vucevic walk yet still keep all three years of LBJs title hopes intact.
If we don’t sign an elite... we could offer him a one or two year overpay to bridge the years until Giannis or AD comes available.
I don’t see a huge downside unless Zu or Mo or the pick becomes an all star |
But they want to keep as many assets preserved for AD for better or worse. It’s a pretty apparent plan. |
So if you're the Pels, what is more appealing?
A. Three 1st round picks, BI, Zubac and Wagner
B. 2 1st round picks, Vucevic and Ingram
A will make you irrelevant in one of the smallest league markets. Now you have to trade Jrue Holiday and potentially let Randle and Mirotic walk in order to rebuild. The rebuild of this magnitude IMO will take anywhere from 5-10 years. Not good if you're a small market franchise that has barely sniffed the playoffs over the last 10 years.
B Will make you relevant, competitive and still allow you to build towards a promising future. Vucevic (28), Ingram (22), Holiday (27), Mirotic (27), Randle (25) will keep you competitive. Most of all will agree Ingram still has a lot of upside. Plus you get multiple draft picks if you're NO's.
There may be better offers out there but if I am from a business standpoint out of these 2. NO is probably better going with option B, unless they are ready to sell the team. But heck what do I know? |
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Zubolo
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | audioaxes wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | audioaxes wrote: | | trading for Vucevic will shut the door on us signing a Max guy this summer... unless we let him walk which means we basically burned up 2 1st rounders for a 1/2 season rental that will not get us past the Warriors |
The logic employed by many here is that we need to get AD now because we must exploit LBJ's three year window.
This gives some chance of winning this season, and also provides a backup plan in case no one wants to come.
Not first choice, but a decent idea.
People want to trade the core, but are worried about losing Mo and a first rounder in a weak draft?
Sign the elite is the best plan, but at least this is a reasonable plan b or c |
but this would not be a plan b. This would override all other plans. I do like Vucevik through and wouldnt mind him as a real plan b... signing him this off season as a FA if we cant get other guys. I'd assume we can get him for a team friendly deal so we'd still have space to fill out our roster with another solid player on a non minimum/exception contract. And finally we still have our chips to make a trade run for Davis to have a Lebron/Davis/Vucekik core and still have Ball and maybe Hart. |
People’s justification for trading the core is that we need to exploit Lebron’s three year window. So for the cost of Mo, Zu and a pick you get one shot at the title this year.
Then if we sign an elite agent we just let Vucevic walk yet still keep all three years of LBJs title hopes intact.
If we don’t sign an elite... we could offer him a one or two year overpay to bridge the years until Giannis or AD comes available.
I don’t see a huge downside unless Zu or Mo or the pick becomes an all star |
But they want to keep as many assets preserved for AD for better or worse. It’s a pretty apparent plan. |
So if you're the Pels, what is more appealing?
A. Three 1st round picks, BI, Zubac and Wagner
B. 2 1st round picks, Vucevic and Ingram
A will make you irrelevant in one of the smallest league markets. Now you have to trade Jrue Holiday and potentially let Randle and Mirotic walk in order to rebuild. The rebuild of this magnitude IMO will take anywhere from 5-10 years. Not good if you're a small market franchise that has barely sniffed the playoffs over the last 10 years.
B Will make you relevant, competitive and still allow you to build towards a promising future. Vucevic (28), Ingram (22), Holiday (27), Mirotic (27), Randle (25) will keep you competitive. Most of us will agree Ingram still has a lot of upside. Plus you get multiple draft picks if you're NO's.
There may be better offers out there but from a business standpoint out of these two, NO is probably better going with option B, unless they are ready to sell the team |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:05 am Post subject: |
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Why does Vuc agree to the Pels in a sign and trade?
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Zubolo
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| Jesusdelonla wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | If Vuc is on the market I think teams will put in bids for him that are better than the ones here. |
Please tell me which playoff team needs him |
Good question. I thought of this as well and it seems like just about every playoff team is very competitive at the center position. You could argue the Celtics could move Horford to the 4 and trade Aaron Baynes and pieces to make the upgrade at the 5 though I am sure Celtics fans like what Baynes brings.
In the West, can't really find a team in need of a center. The Lakers are fairly adequate the center position but I feel like Vooch's game (shooting, passing) will open up everything offensively for our other starters more so than McGee and Chandler. Yesterday's game against Gobert kinda proved my point. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Why does Vuc agree to the Pels in a sign and trade? |
Why would the Pelicans want to sign him?
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:14 am Post subject: |
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The 2018 version of Vucevic is like an upgraded version of Brook.
He's not as good as AD... but arguably a better fit for what we need right now
Especially at that relatively cut rate price. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| Zubolo wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | If Vuc is on the market I think teams will put in bids for him that are better than the ones here. |
Please tell me which playoff team needs him |
Good question. I thought of this as well and it seems like just about every playoff team is very competitive at the center position. You could argue the Celtics could move Horford to the 4 and trade Aaron Baynes and pieces to make the upgrade at the 5 though I am sure Celtics fans like what Baynes brings.
In the West, can't really find a team in need of a center. The Lakers are fairly adequate the center position but I feel like Vooch's game (shooting, passing) will open up everything offensively for our other starters more so than McGee and Chandler. Yesterday's game against Gobert kinda proved my point. |
Hornets could use him. Wiz need a center. 8/10 spots right now.
Clips and Kings could use a center like him too.
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Zubolo
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Well, if trying to leverage Vooch as an asset to Pels proves too difficult, to SM's point, Plan A is to sign one of the star free agents first.
If that fails, we should aim to sign Vooch to a max deal for a year or two till AD or Greek freak are free to sign wherever.
To me, that's probably the best way to maximize the years Lebron has available without gutting our core.
I am all for attempting to give up a 2nd round pick for Vooch but ultimately, I am sure it will cost at least a first round pick. If I am the Lakers, I take my chances. No guarantee the Pels will ever want to trade AD here for anything we have without completely punishing us.
Last edited by Zubolo on Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:21 am; edited 2 times in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | The 2018 version of Vucevic is like an upgraded version of Brook.
He's not as good as AD... but arguably a better fit for what we need right now
Especially at that relatively cut rate price. |
I would love Vuc. But doubt Lakers offer enough to get him given AD plans and the fact that Vuc’s cap hold precludes a KD signing which means he’s a rental in that scenario.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Zubolo wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | If Vuc is on the market I think teams will put in bids for him that are better than the ones here. |
Please tell me which playoff team needs him |
Good question. I thought of this as well and it seems like just about every playoff team is very competitive at the center position. You could argue the Celtics could move Horford to the 4 and trade Aaron Baynes and pieces to make the upgrade at the 5 though I am sure Celtics fans like what Baynes brings.
In the West, can't really find a team in need of a center. The Lakers are fairly adequate the center position but I feel like Vooch's game (shooting, passing) will open up everything offensively for our other starters more so than McGee and Chandler. Yesterday's game against Gobert kinda proved my point. |
Hornets could use him. Wiz need a center. 8/10 spots right now.
Clips and Kings could use a center like him too. |
Yeah, it’s not just teams that are in the playoffs now — there are others on the cusp that may want him in order to make a push. |
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32
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:18 am Post subject: |
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Lakers are in a very interesting situation with less than 4 weeks to the deadline. I don't think they do anything other than a minor trade. However a lot will be depend how long Lebron will be out and where the team is in the standings when he does comes back. Really hard to say right now. They could end up being sellers depending how bad it gets.
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| Could be wrong, but I don’t anticipate Vucevic to net too much return. He’s an FA and Orlando has no plans to re-sign him. |
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | The 2018 version of Vucevic is like an upgraded version of Brook.
He's not as good as AD... but arguably a better fit for what we need right now
Especially at that relatively cut rate price. |
I would love Vuc. But doubt Lakers offer enough to get him given AD plans and the fact that Vuc’s cap hold precludes a KD signing which means he’s a rental in that scenario. |
I look at him as buying a title shot as well as an expensive insurance policy.
Assuming everyone is healthy... he buys us a decent shot at the title this year... and if KD wants to come... well, all you lost was Mo, Zu and the pick.
Would you trade Mo, Zu and a pick for KD right now?
I would. |
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Jesusdelonla
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Zubolo wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | If Vuc is on the market I think teams will put in bids for him that are better than the ones here. |
Please tell me which playoff team needs him |
Good question. I thought of this as well and it seems like just about every playoff team is very competitive at the center position. You could argue the Celtics could move Horford to the 4 and trade Aaron Baynes and pieces to make the upgrade at the 5 though I am sure Celtics fans like what Baynes brings.
In the West, can't really find a team in need of a center. The Lakers are fairly adequate the center position but I feel like Vooch's game (shooting, passing) will open up everything offensively for our other starters more so than McGee and Chandler. Yesterday's game against Gobert kinda proved my point. |
Hornets could use him. Wiz need a center. 8/10 spots right now.
Clips and Kings could use a center like him too. |
Clips with boban, gotta and small ball Harrell need center?
Kings have zbo who they haven't used at all.
Hornets have biyombo and seller who is coming soon.
Why would any of these team give anything of value for expiring Vucevic? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | The 2018 version of Vucevic is like an upgraded version of Brook.
He's not as good as AD... but arguably a better fit for what we need right now
Especially at that relatively cut rate price. |
I would love Vuc. But doubt Lakers offer enough to get him given AD plans and the fact that Vuc’s cap hold precludes a KD signing which means he’s a rental in that scenario. |
I look at him as buying a title shot as well as an expensive insurance policy.
Assuming everyone is healthy... he buys us a decent shot at the title this year... and if KD wants to come... well, all you lost was Mo, Zu and the pick.
Would you trade Mo, Zu and a pick for KD right now?
I would. |
Again I’m engaging in the predictive realm and I just don’t see them trading a possible AD piece away. This is why I kind of wish the AD cloud would go away but it won’t until the summer of 2019. Will stall a lot of moves until then.
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | The 2018 version of Vucevic is like an upgraded version of Brook.
He's not as good as AD... but arguably a better fit for what we need right now
Especially at that relatively cut rate price. |
I would love Vuc. But doubt Lakers offer enough to get him given AD plans and the fact that Vuc’s cap hold precludes a KD signing which means he’s a rental in that scenario. |
I look at him as buying a title shot as well as an expensive insurance policy.
Assuming everyone is healthy... he buys us a decent shot at the title this year... and if KD wants to come... well, all you lost was Mo, Zu and the pick.
Would you trade Mo, Zu and a pick for KD right now?
I would. |
Again I’m engaging in the predictive realm and I just don’t see them trading a possible AD piece away. This is why I kind of wish the AD cloud would go away but it won’t until the summer of 2019. Will stall a lot of moves until then. |
I'm not trying to predict anything... I'm only analyzing what I think is best for our team.
I think Zubolo came up with a plan better than what you may well be right is the official course of action.
Hopefully some staff member reads it and it has a butterfly effect and they reconsider their plan. |
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Jesusdelonla
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| Lakers r not stupid enough to trade 2 1st in Wagner + 2019 1st, period |
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32
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:04 am Post subject: |
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I don't have i tunes. If anybody wants to give a summary that would be cool.
| Quote: | NBA trade deadline preview: Former Atlanta GM Wes Wilcox and ESPN Front Office Insider @BobbyMarks42 on Anthony Davis’ future, superstar trade negotiations, a potentially strong buyout market and more.
Woj Pod: http://apple.co/2vm1oF0 |
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1084115483496980480
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Lakers r not stupid enough to trade 2 1st in Wagner + 2019 1st, period |
I agree completely that Vucevic is not going to fetch a 2018 1st round pick and a 2019 1st round pick, as an expiring player. Sure, he's playing great, but if they can get one 1st rounder for him (either a guy that was just picked in the 1st round or a future 1st round pick), I think they will have done well here. He's not a perennial All-Star and he doesn't have the track record to command two 1st's. |
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daytripper
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Lakers r not stupid enough to trade 2 1st in Wagner + 2019 1st, period |
I agree completely that Vucevic is not going to fetch a 2018 1st round pick and a 2019 1st round pick, as an expiring player. Sure, he's playing great, but if they can get one 1st rounder for him (either a guy that was just picked in the 1st round or a future 1st round pick), I think they will have done well here. He's not a perennial All-Star and he doesn't have the track record to command two 1st's. |
Possibly but we probably shouldn't count Moe as a 1st anymore. He hasn't looked great in his short stints on the court and doesn't have near first round value at this point tbh. I could def see some playoff team offer a 19 FRP (plus filler and possibly a young player) for Vuc but highly doubt it will be the Lakers. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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^
I think you could see a young player and a '19 or '20 1st for Vuc, but most likely not a 1st rounder that was just picked in '18. I say that because such a player still has 3 years of team control left after this one, and I just don't think Vuc can command that type of return for the Magic. Sure, maybe they wouldn't have interest in Wagner; I have no idea. I'm just saying that I doubt very seriously that they can get back an '18 1st round draftee along with a future 1st. |
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Jesusdelonla
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| daytripper wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Lakers r not stupid enough to trade 2 1st in Wagner + 2019 1st, period |
I agree completely that Vucevic is not going to fetch a 2018 1st round pick and a 2019 1st round pick, as an expiring player. Sure, he's playing great, but if they can get one 1st rounder for him (either a guy that was just picked in the 1st round or a future 1st round pick), I think they will have done well here. He's not a perennial All-Star and he doesn't have the track record to command two 1st's. |
Possibly but we probably shouldn't count Moe as a 1st anymore. He hasn't looked great in his short stints on the court and doesn't have near first round value at this point tbh. I could def see some playoff team offer a 19 FRP (plus filler and possibly a young player) for Vuc but highly doubt it will be the Lakers. |
So we give up on rookies after 43 games now? He was injured to start the year and has 3 other centers ahead of him who need PT.
We are also trying to make playoffs |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | | Lakers are in a very interesting situation with less than 4 weeks to the deadline. I don't think they do anything other than a minor trade. However a lot will be depend how long Lebron will be out and where the team is in the standings when he does comes back. Really hard to say right now. They could end up being sellers depending how bad it gets. |
Agree, I don’t see any in season significant moves.
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PHILosophize
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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it was a snore-fest of a podcast tbh
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