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yinoma2001
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:23 am Post subject:

I just don't think unless you're getting AD, Embiid, etc., on that level, that it's worth throwing a full max at a big center like Boogie who will likely have to sit out when it's crunch time and teams are using small ball lineups. Plus, how will his health hold up after the Achilles? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals

Sentient Meat
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:27 am Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:

I just don't think unless you're getting AD, Embiid, etc., on that level, that it's worth throwing a full max at a big center like Boogie who will likely have to sit out when it's crunch time and teams are using small ball lineups. Plus, how will his health hold up after the Achilles?

What if you knew for a fact no other agents would come?

Is there any way you budge from one season?

Would you simply punt if Boogie was the only option?

Joe Pesci
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:28 am Post subject:

Jesusdelonla wrote:

Joe Pesci wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

Joe Pesci wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

I would also assume if we signed Jimmy, we would be making an AD trade or for another all star level player.

You sign Butler, or any other free agent, you lose any and all leverage in a Davis trade.

The minute the Lakers use their space is the minute other teams come with their best offers.

You either punt and hope to sign Davis in 2020 or sign a multi-year max guy in 2019. Both won't be an option, IMO.

Sure. But signing Boogie does the same thing.

We would only need to send out 21m in salaries to match up for any AD deal. The team can buy the Lakers/AD bluff, but that wouldn't discount AD going to another non-Lakers team.

Cousins is a better fit than Butler. Butler's presence really marginalizes Ingram and/or Kuzma.

agree with this. instead of cousins, i would try to go get vuc

That's a good debate, Cousins or Vucevic. There are good arguments to be made from both sides.

Gun to my head: If Cousins' gait and play look good from here on out, I'd go with him.
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yinoma2001
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:29 am Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

What if you knew for a fact no other agents would come?

Is there any way you budge from one season?

Would you simply punt if Boogie was the only option?

If 0 of the top FAs came, I wouldn't max Boogie out "just because." I'd be open to a 1 year punt deal with him, full 32m max. No way I'm gambling that precious cap hold on a question mark.

He is so shielded by KD/Steph/Klay/Dray that it's difficult to see how he fares as a future #1/2 option as opposed to a 4th option on a currently loaded Warriors team.
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:30 am Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:

Joe Pesci wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

Joe Pesci wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

Joe Pesci wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

I would also assume if we signed Jimmy, we would be making an AD trade or for another all star level player.

Cousins is a better fit than Butler. Butler's presence really marginalizes Ingram and/or Kuzma.

I don't trust Boogie post Achilles. It's one thing to have KD/Steph/Dray/Klay to lean on, it's another to be relied upon to be the possible #1 guy as LBJ ages, etc. 4 year deal, yikes.

You'd rather have Butler on a four year deal? With this roster?

Compared to Boogie, yes.

You would be deep at the wing positions, which is a great thing in today's NBA.

Really not sure Boogie will be worth 32m/year+ for the next 4 years after that injury.

You could convince me pre Achilles but after, nope. 1 year punt deal? Sure, if it came down to it.

Kuzma
LeBron
Ingram
Butler
Lonzo

down the stretch is a damn good end game lineup if Butler plays team ball and the kids continue to develop.

Would much rather than be Kawhi or Klay or Kyrie instead of JB, but doubt Magic and Rob pass on singing Butler. For whatever reason, he still holds the label of a "star" in the NBA and you know LeBron would want him.

yinoma2001
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:31 am Post subject:

Quote:

Kuzma
LeBron
Ingram
Butler
Lonzo

All 5 could handle and run the offense if needed. 5 switch able players on defense.

I'd rather have that than Boogie who would have to sit out against small ball lineups.
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Sentient Meat
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:36 am Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

What if you knew for a fact no other agents would come?

Is there any way you budge from one season?

Would you simply punt if Boogie was the only option?

He's obviously the worst of the "elite" options... mostly for his temperament more than his basketball skills.

I'm just curious as to what happens next season. Right now he's like paying a max for Brook... which is nuts because we should have just paid Brook whatever he wanted. But his assists, steals, blocks are oddly at a career high per 36... even in his impaired recovery state. If he gets his three ball in order... he'd fit well. The question is does he get better than Vucevic or not... but regardless... I'd rather have Butler or Boogie and keep the best of the core... than AD without the core or the third agent.

I agree he's far from ideal... but I don't think it's the devastating fail some here are making it out to be.

Joe Pesci
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:37 am Post subject:

2019 wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

Joe Pesci wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

Joe Pesci wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

Joe Pesci wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

I would also assume if we signed Jimmy, we would be making an AD trade or for another all star level player.

Cousins is a better fit than Butler. Butler's presence really marginalizes Ingram and/or Kuzma.

I don't trust Boogie post Achilles. It's one thing to have KD/Steph/Dray/Klay to lean on, it's another to be relied upon to be the possible #1 guy as LBJ ages, etc. 4 year deal, yikes.

You'd rather have Butler on a four year deal? With this roster?

Reddick or Eric Gordon would look and function better in that lineup than Butler, IMO.

That lineup is in dire need of a pure shooter.
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yinoma2001
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:37 am Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

What if you knew for a fact no other agents would come?

Is there any way you budge from one season?

Would you simply punt if Boogie was the only option?

But it's hard to tell b/c he's on such an overwhelmingly stacked team. If Boogie was the #1/2 option on a less stacked team, we could assess things better.
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Sentient Meat
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:45 am Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

What if you knew for a fact no other agents would come?

Is there any way you budge from one season?

Would you simply punt if Boogie was the only option?

But it's hard to tell b/c he's on such an overwhelmingly stacked team. If Boogie was the #1/2 option on a less stacked team, we could assess things better.

His shooting should come back with time... the things I was more concerned about are still intact... blocking shots... steals... things he gets mostly with his ridiculous wingspan more than superior effort or athleticism.

I don't see the difference between playing Zubac, Lopez, or Boogie... except I think Boogie has a better chance of becoming better than the other two with time. The Achilles guys usually don't rupture them again.

Again, I'd prefer signing one of the top elite agents... but especially as we got rid of Brook and Zu... I think he fills a need... especially if we can get him at a discounted price.

yinoma2001
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:49 am Post subject:

Quote:

I'm just leery of allocating that much cap space on a center in today's NBA (unless you're AD or Embiid level). Re: Achilles, the fear is not so much about it rupturing again, but the affect that injury has had on other parts of his body. Kobe didn't tear his Achilles again, but there was a chain effect on the rest of his body (granted he had a broken down body from all the mileage).

I wouldn't want to pay Brook 20m, let alone 32m. Boogie on a 4 year deal is such a gamble, and not one that IMO furthers a Lakers championship chances.
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Sentient Meat
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:53 am Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:

Quote:

It's pretty far down the list of my scenarios also... like in the bottom quarter. Yet still above the Godfather trade for AD by some distance.

AD for less assets... AD paired with another elite... AD in 2020... are fine with me. But an overpay for Boogie is preferable to me than an overpay for AD as at least we still will have the pick of our core and our possible lotto pick this season.

Baron Von Humongous
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:04 pm Post subject:

PHILosophize wrote:

Joe Pesci wrote:

If Irving goes to New York, the Celtics would be out of the running for Davis ... and New York, depending on how high their pick is, would be the Lakers' primary competition.

If the Knicks get pick number 2 or 3, pretty sure New Orleans takes that pick (over the Lakers' package) and sends Davis to New York.

Also, with regard to Leonard, I have an extremely hard time imagining Magic "out pitching" Jerry West.

If the Lakers free agent success depends on nabbing Leonard with the Clippers and Nets lurking in the shadows, the Lakers are in bad shape.

They may have to punt space again, if for nothing else than to apply massive amounts of pressure to any team thinking of giving up good assets for Davis.

If the Knicks get the number two pick and sign Irving before a potential Davis trade, none if this matters; it's a wrap, IMO.

In this scenario, the Lakers' only viable option is Cousins.

To recap (going off the general principle that New Orleans will only trade Davis to the Lakers as a last resort and that the Lakers will strikeout on all the "big" names):

-- Knicks sign Irving and get a top pick ... Lakers try for other FAs but settle on signing Cousins.
-- Knicks sign Irving and don't get a top pick ... Lakers try for other FAs but settle on signing the best shooter available (Reddick) to a one-year deal.

In this second scenario, the Lakers' primary threat would be the Clippers. West has real assets to throw at New Orleans and the Clippers might roll the dice on teaming Davis and Leonard up, unafraid of the Lakers stealing him outright in 2020.

If this happens (a Clipper trade for Davis), the Lakers would have to decide between punting (a JJ Reddick signing or an Eric Gordon trade), keeping the threat alive of signing Davis in 2020, or simply signing Cousins and ending the gamesmanship.

My early prediction:

-- If New York gets a top pick, the Lakers will lose out on everyone except Cousins.

-- If New York doesn't get a top pick, the Clippers trade for Davis (and sign Leonard), and the Lakers are forced to either pivot to Cousins or punt space with hopes of stealing Davis from West in 2020.

It's looking more and more likely that Cousins will be the "other" guy with James.

beautifully said, joe

Best signature on this here site.
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Baron Von Humongous
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:05 pm Post subject:

LakersForever123 wrote:

Lakers should sign Justin Patton as a back up center this summer.

Good call. He's worth a looksee.
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danzag
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:07 pm Post subject:

I'd take Butler as a consolation prize. But I wouldn't get anywhere near Cousins

adkindo
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:12 pm Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

LakersForever123 wrote:

Lakers should sign Justin Patton as a back up center this summer.

Good call. He's worth a looksee.

feels like we are past the fun days of taking low risk chances on young guys....Lebron only likes guys that have annual prostate exams on their schedule.

Baron Von Humongous
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:24 pm Post subject:

adkindo wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

LakersForever123 wrote:

Lakers should sign Justin Patton as a back up center this summer.

Good call. He's worth a looksee.

feels like we are past the fun days of taking low risk chances on young guys....Lebron only likes guys that have annual prostate exams on their schedule.

Still need to fill 15 roster spots and there may not be enough old ringchasers to go around. But I do look forward to Channing Frye being signed while Patton comes back from injury on another squad.
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kikanga
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:25 pm Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:

Durant, Thompson and Curry weren't even in the league when the rules changed.

How the NBA got its groove back

Quote:

In May, Colangelo's committee presented the proposal to a group of coaches at the NBA draft combine in Chicago and met some vocal opposition. A contingent of coaches who thrived under slower, isolation-oriented offenses expressed concerns that they didn't have the shooters to contend with the reforms.

"I told them, 'Then you better find a shooting coach,'" remembers Embry.

Under normal circumstances, the community of coaches would have had ample opportunity to contest or even obstruct reform proposals such as the ones being submitted, but in this instance, the ad hoc committee wasn't consulting as much as it was decreeing changes. The rules would take effect that fall, and those who resisted, Colangelo told the group, would find themselves left behind by a more modern game.

I agree. Didn't mean to imply they were. Just saying. West helped change the rules while not being a member of any FO. Then proceeded to join GS and directly reap the benefits of the rule changes. Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Not to mention the recent rule changes which I already explained benefit GS even more. We win a 3 peat. Rules are changed to minimize our effectiveness. GS builds arguably the greatest super team ever. And the league changes rules to make them more dominant. Really ticks me off.
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vanexelent
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:55 pm Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:

vanexelent wrote:

Joe Pesci wrote:

iimarshon wrote:

- Kyrie and KD go to the Knicks

- Celtics dont trade for AD without Kyrie.

- Knicks pick slips to 3 or 4 and they keep it.

- Lakers get AD with Knicks and Celtics out.

- Would then love if we could figure a way to get Jimmy Butler for like 28-30m a season.

LeBron + AD + Jimmy Butler

Then use room exception on Trevor Ariza,

If Knicks get the #3 pick, New Orleans takes that deal over the Lakers deal.

Not necessarily. Why would the Pels covet Barret, Morant or Reddish or whatever non-Zion player over what the Lakers already offered? Kuzma is arguably better than any of those guys, as is Ingram. Add in Lonzo and it's a no-brainer.

I hear you, but you sound like another biased Laker fan.

Sending stars to opposite conferences is a real thing (reference the Shaq trade). Kuzma DOES NOT have the same value as a #3 pick in the draft ...

... And, most importantly, spite is one helluva drug.

New Orleans would gladly take the #3 pick over the Lakers' package.

I'm looking at it objectively. Kuzma is in fact better than anyone in college right now, excluding Zion maybe...maybe. I'm not so sure Zion will have a 40-point game in his first couple seasons.

I know the Lakers package isn't good enough to get AD, but compared to what the Knicks have to offer outside of the #1 pick is hot garbage.

Jesusdelonla
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:56 pm Post subject:

Curious to see how cousins play with no minutes restrictions

fansincemagic
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:08 pm Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:

Quote:

Kuzma
LeBron
Ingram
Butler
Lonzo

All 5 could handle and run the offense if needed. 5 switch able players on defense.

I'd rather have that than Boogie who would have to sit out against small ball lineups.

Having Butler/Thompson/Leonard/Walker with those 4 gives you elite coverage from the 1-4 positions. We need to focus on that rather than the debate that rises regarding Kuz at the 5 (or on D in general with LBJ). I would love to have that team, staggering minutes so one is always on the court. You keep McGee with his small cap hold and you have a winner.

lakerican
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:27 pm Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:

Quote:

Kuzma
LeBron
Ingram
Butler
Lonzo

All 5 could handle and run the offense if needed. 5 switch able players on defense.

I'd rather have that than Boogie who would have to sit out against small ball lineups.

Meh, who is going to rebound with this lineup? The same thing as in the last game except Bullock & Rondo. We will get crush!

venturalakersfan
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:55 pm Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

Quote:

It's looking more and more likely that Cousins will be the "other" guy with James.

Dear lord no.

I think Jimmy may be the other guy, but I can see Boogie as a 1 year placeholder deal.

How and where would Butler fit on this team? He's a bad fit.

Cousins ain't signing a one year deal. If he did, great, but I don't think he will. Some team will give him a multi-year deal, and he'll tale it. Cousins, even for max money, doesn't want to be a placeholder for a bigger fish.

Cousins will want Bird Rights
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:19 pm Post subject:

lakerican wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

Quote:

Kuzma
LeBron
Ingram
Butler
Lonzo

All 5 could handle and run the offense if needed. 5 switch able players on defense.

I'd rather have that than Boogie who would have to sit out against small ball lineups.

Meh, who is going to rebound with this lineup? The same thing as in the last game except Bullock & Rondo. We will get crush!

I wouldn't be over concerned as long as that is not the starting lineup or the one getting the majority of the mins. Just closing...

Let's say we can sign Butler and then use the remaining (sans Bullock cap hold) of cap for DeAndre Jordan. Rondo and Chandler come back on a minimum. Ellington wants to come back and ring chase.

Jordan | Wagner | Chandler
LeBron | Kuzma
Ingram | Bullock | Ellington
Butler | Hart
Lonzo | Rondo

+ 1st round selection

I still prefer to sign Kawhi/Klay/KD/Kyrie and I think that team has some holes unless the kids step up big time, but I like them to challenge anyone and if KD is in NY with Kyrie, that team could come out if the west and we'd still have the ability to move the kids for a star (AD) or move them for other pieces... I'm hoping Lillard becomes available but his recent comments indicate that would never happen.

The Juggernaut
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:22 pm Post subject:

If you sign Butler you send Ingram to the bench to be the Ginobli super 6th man off the bench. You would have to sign a vet center that could rebound, finish at the rim, and protect the rim. Deandre for cheap would be perfect.

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