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 Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | I'd trade Siakam for LBJ in a heartbeat.
You could play Ingram as the SF and Siakam as the PF.
Kuzma could take the sixth man role... and if he didn't want to do that you could trade him for a shooter or a center. |
Please tell me you’re joking?! No sane basketball fan can possibly believe that. |
Next season LBJ will still be better.
I think in two or three years Siakam will surpass him. |
Lebron might be retired in three years, so... |
There is no way LeBron retires in three years barring some horrific injury. |
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Bard207
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Please don't max Tobias Harris. |
What would you like to see done if we miss on the marquee free agents?
I'm not advocating for Harris btw.. just seems like a not so bad consolation if we can't get anything else. |
I think you're duplicating a skillset that Kuz will eventually be able to replicate at a cheaper price and that Kyle's growth will be directly stunted since he and Harris are both effectively mono-positional players. I think you could more than replicate Harris' production for 1/3rd of the price by signing a Morii twin to rotate with Kuzma.
Sadly I don't know where you get good middle class value this summer outside of some of the intriguing, under the radar RFAs. Noah Vonleh, Jeremy Lamb, DeMarre Carroll, Robin Lopez, and/or Patrick Beverley? Maintaining cap flexibility for a disgruntled player in 2020 who won't cost all the youth might be a better option than trading everyone not named Lebron for AD this sumner and I think would certainly be the wiser course of action than going all in on Harris as a second option. I might even take on the last year of Batum or Whiteside's contract for a draft pick rather than commit four years of max money to Harris. |
Some have the pool of 2020 free agents as weak outside of Davis and the bad contracts of 2016 (Mozgov, Mahinmi, Evan Turner, Biyombo etc) will be finished.
So there could be a large amount of cap space available for a pedestrian free agency class in 2020. |
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SocalDevin
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | Could we afford Tobias and another solid piece?.. In addition what other solid piece might we be able to pare with him realistically?
And would you guys be okay with it? |
What is the first year salary of Tobias in your scenario? |
I almost always defer to the collective expertise of LG in regards to salaries. I'm not qualified to say what's appropriate. If he's not a max guy he doesn't appear to be that far from being a piece that should be compensated as one. |
Here it is with four different salaries for Tobias. The first year cap hold/salary for the 2019 first at #11 would be just over $4 million.
Salary Cap.............................$109,000,000.....$109,000,000.....$109,000,000......$109,000,000
Salaries, Cap Holds & Deng....$73,664,836........$73,664,836.......$73,664,836........$73,664,836
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Available for Free Agency........$35,335,164.......$35,335,164........$35,335,164........$35,335,164
Available for Free Agency........$35,335,164.......$35,335,164........$35,335,164........$35,335,164
Harris 2019-20 Salary.............$32,700,000.......$30,000,000........$27,500,000........$25,000,000
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Left To Spend...........................$2,635,164.........$5,335,164..........$7,835,164........$10,335,164 |
Thanks boss.. He looks less attractive considering. |
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Practice
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| If the Lakers don’t get a star in free agency they would be better off signing multiple good players to long term deals. It will improve the team and they can trade those guys down the road if need be. |
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | I'm convinced some here would cede back the Louisiana Purchase to France if it meant we could have AD.
Because after all... he's a top five player. |
Not that it will happen, but, given the context of the current state of the franchise, if the Pelicans were willing, you'd be a damn fool not to take Davis for the youngsters.
I know you have your reasons (ie. lack of depth, AD injury concerns, lack of faith in AD's impact, fear of a bleak future), but the rewards far outweigh the risks.
Your problem is that you severely underrate Davis' impact on a winning team. I get it, he's played on sorry team's, so you've never seen him win consistently. I understand all of your points.
What you're not acknowledging is the sheer ineptitude of the Pelicans. Davis isn't a flawed player. He's just the best big in the game playing in an era that emphasizes wing play, and his entire organization from top to bottom has been as bad as it gets. |
If we trade two of the three core players... keeping Ingram preferably, I'd be fine with a trade for AD.
I just don't want to do BI/Zo/Kuz/#11 plus filler or more picks.
If I trusted the front office not to operate as a subsidiary of Klutch, I wouldn't be making such a stink right now.
A fair trade... I'm fine with...
A fire sale... I'm not.
You differ... I respect that... but until the trade is a fait accompli I will be banging my drum to keep the core.
Can we succeed with AD and LBJ plus some strategic signings... sure.
LBJ and AD have to play 75 plus games... players like Caruso or Moe need to flourish out of nowhere... we need to strike gold on at least one FA... someone who comes out of nowhere like DRose to have a comeback or career season.
It's not out of the realm of possibility to make a title run.
But then remember that two or three years from now... LBJ will probably be about as productive as a healthy Ingram or Kuzma... he'll still be a perfectly decent player but we will have 70 million tied up with those two... and do you trust our mainly Klutch lineup not to sign LBJ for a two year extension?
I don't.
I'd rather divest ourselves of LBJ and go a different route.
AD is fine... but I'd sign him in 2020. |
Everything you stated here is fair and even minded -- not much to disagree with.
I think we both can also agree that trades and free agent signings will be quite fluid. As things transpire, it'll be a delicate dance of weighing options, making predictions, and assessing fits (for this team and whichever team trades for Davis). No transaction will be made in a vacume. On the contrary, moves must be made using a wholistic lense.
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SocalDevin
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Please don't max Tobias Harris. |
What would you like to see done if we miss on the marquee free agents?
I'm not advocating for Harris btw.. just seems like a not so bad consolation if we can't get anything else. |
I think you're duplicating a skillset that Kuz will eventually be able to replicate at a cheaper price and that Kyle's growth will be directly stunted since he and Harris are both effectively mono-positional players. I think you could more than replicate Harris' production for 1/3rd of the price by signing a Morii twin to rotate with Kuzma.
Sadly I don't know where you get good middle class value this summer outside of some of the intriguing, under the radar RFAs. Noah Vonleh, Jeremy Lamb, DeMarre Carroll, Robin Lopez, and/or Patrick Beverley? Maintaining cap flexibility for a disgruntled player in 2020 who won't cost all the youth might be a better option than trading everyone not named Lebron for AD this sumner and I think would certainly be the wiser course of action than going all in on Harris as a second option. I might even take on the last year of Batum or Whiteside's contract for a draft pick rather than commit four years of max money to Harris. |
Good point.. I'm off the Harris train. Though I think he makes us a solid competitor in the west. |
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CamReddish
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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We need to build the team that we are going forward with this offseason. Can't waste another year of Lebron and mess with the youth. Wither keep them or trade them. We have also seen these 1 year deals don't work either.
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Please don't max Tobias Harris. |
What would you like to see done if we miss on the marquee free agents?
I'm not advocating for Harris btw.. just seems like a not so bad consolation if we can't get anything else. |
I think you're duplicating a skillset that Kuz will eventually be able to replicate at a cheaper price and that Kyle's growth will be directly stunted since he and Harris are both effectively mono-positional players. I think you could more than replicate Harris' production for 1/3rd of the price by signing a Morii twin to rotate with Kuzma.
Sadly I don't know where you get good middle class value this summer outside of some of the intriguing, under the radar RFAs. Noah Vonleh, Jeremy Lamb, DeMarre Carroll, Robin Lopez, and/or Patrick Beverley? Maintaining cap flexibility for a disgruntled player in 2020 who won't cost all the youth might be a better option than trading everyone not named Lebron for AD this sumner and I think would certainly be the wiser course of action than going all in on Harris as a second option. I might even take on the last year of Batum or Whiteside's contract for a draft pick rather than commit four years of max money to Harris. |
Or Crabbe who fills a bigger hole than Batum or Whiteside.
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CamReddish
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Please don't max Tobias Harris. |
What would you like to see done if we miss on the marquee free agents?
I'm not advocating for Harris btw.. just seems like a not so bad consolation if we can't get anything else. |
I think you're duplicating a skillset that Kuz will eventually be able to replicate at a cheaper price and that Kyle's growth will be directly stunted since he and Harris are both effectively mono-positional players. I think you could more than replicate Harris' production for 1/3rd of the price by signing a Morii twin to rotate with Kuzma.
Sadly I don't know where you get good middle class value this summer outside of some of the intriguing, under the radar RFAs. Noah Vonleh, Jeremy Lamb, DeMarre Carroll, Robin Lopez, and/or Patrick Beverley? Maintaining cap flexibility for a disgruntled player in 2020 who won't cost all the youth might be a better option than trading everyone not named Lebron for AD this sumner and I think would certainly be the wiser course of action than going all in on Harris as a second option. I might even take on the last year of Batum or Whiteside's contract for a draft pick rather than commit four years of max money to Harris. |
Or Crabbe who fills a bigger hole than Batum or Whiteside. |
Batum fills the same role and is better than Crabbe
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| LBJ23 wrote: | | We need to build the team that we are going forward with this offseason. Can't waste another year of Lebron and mess with the youth. Wither keep them or trade them. We have also seen these 1 year deals don't work either. |
To have space to sign Davis you don't have to sign guys to one year deals though. As long as guys are signed to value deals that are tradeable, the Lakers can sign anyone to multi-year deals and still be players for Davis in 2020. The Clippers are a great example of this.
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greek laker
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| I like Crabbe too, if we can get a pick, it would be a win win |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Please don't max Tobias Harris. |
What would you like to see done if we miss on the marquee free agents?
I'm not advocating for Harris btw.. just seems like a not so bad consolation if we can't get anything else. |
I think you're duplicating a skillset that Kuz will eventually be able to replicate at a cheaper price and that Kyle's growth will be directly stunted since he and Harris are both effectively mono-positional players. I think you could more than replicate Harris' production for 1/3rd of the price by signing a Morii twin to rotate with Kuzma.
Sadly I don't know where you get good middle class value this summer outside of some of the intriguing, under the radar RFAs. Noah Vonleh, Jeremy Lamb, DeMarre Carroll, Robin Lopez, and/or Patrick Beverley? Maintaining cap flexibility for a disgruntled player in 2020 who won't cost all the youth might be a better option than trading everyone not named Lebron for AD this sumner and I think would certainly be the wiser course of action than going all in on Harris as a second option. I might even take on the last year of Batum or Whiteside's contract for a draft pick rather than commit four years of max money to Harris. |
Some have the pool of 2020 free agents as weak outside of Davis and the bad contracts of 2016 (Mozgov, Mahinmi, Evan Turner, Biyombo etc) will be finished.
So there could be a large amount of cap space available for a pedestrian free agency class in 2020. |
Right, but that cap space could be used to absorb salary, as well. I think the Lakers have one path towards true contention before Lebron fades completely and that's signing Kawhi, KD, or Kyrie this summer and then either getting star-ish value from young depth or trading for a third star like AD/Beal.
If the Lakers are down to Tobias Harris as a max free agent option this summer, I just assume any hypothetical window for contention will have closed barring some unexpected outcome (s). At that point I'll be happy if they don't commit everything to build a Frankenstein's monster pseudo-contender around Lebron with a poor free agent signing like Harris in 2019 or Kyle Lowry in 2020 or whatever.
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| LBJ23 wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Please don't max Tobias Harris. |
What would you like to see done if we miss on the marquee free agents?
I'm not advocating for Harris btw.. just seems like a not so bad consolation if we can't get anything else. |
I think you're duplicating a skillset that Kuz will eventually be able to replicate at a cheaper price and that Kyle's growth will be directly stunted since he and Harris are both effectively mono-positional players. I think you could more than replicate Harris' production for 1/3rd of the price by signing a Morii twin to rotate with Kuzma.
Sadly I don't know where you get good middle class value this summer outside of some of the intriguing, under the radar RFAs. Noah Vonleh, Jeremy Lamb, DeMarre Carroll, Robin Lopez, and/or Patrick Beverley? Maintaining cap flexibility for a disgruntled player in 2020 who won't cost all the youth might be a better option than trading everyone not named Lebron for AD this sumner and I think would certainly be the wiser course of action than going all in on Harris as a second option. I might even take on the last year of Batum or Whiteside's contract for a draft pick rather than commit four years of max money to Harris. |
Or Crabbe who fills a bigger hole than Batum or Whiteside. |
Batum fills the same role and is better than Crabbe |
That's fair. Batum definitely has the better resume for sure, but I'd rather have the pure shooting. It's the biggest need of this team and the key to helping unlock Ingram, Ball, and James.
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CamReddish
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | | LBJ23 wrote: | | We need to build the team that we are going forward with this offseason. Can't waste another year of Lebron and mess with the youth. Wither keep them or trade them. We have also seen these 1 year deals don't work either. |
To have space to sign Davis you don't have to sign guys to one year deals though. As long as guys are signed to value deals that are tradeable, the Lakers can sign anyone to multi-year deals and still be players for Davis in 2020. The Clippers are a great example of this. |
True.
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Practice
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | | LBJ23 wrote: | | We need to build the team that we are going forward with this offseason. Can't waste another year of Lebron and mess with the youth. Wither keep them or trade them. We have also seen these 1 year deals don't work either. |
To have space to sign Davis you don't have to sign guys to one year deals though. As long as guys are signed to value deals that are tradeable, the Lakers can sign anyone to multi-year deals and still be players for Davis in 2020. The Clippers are a great example of this. |
The Lakers won’t have money to sign Davis either way because they have to pay the young guys. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Please don't max Tobias Harris. |
What would you like to see done if we miss on the marquee free agents?
I'm not advocating for Harris btw.. just seems like a not so bad consolation if we can't get anything else. |
I think you're duplicating a skillset that Kuz will eventually be able to replicate at a cheaper price and that Kyle's growth will be directly stunted since he and Harris are both effectively mono-positional players. I think you could more than replicate Harris' production for 1/3rd of the price by signing a Morii twin to rotate with Kuzma.
Sadly I don't know where you get good middle class value this summer outside of some of the intriguing, under the radar RFAs. Noah Vonleh, Jeremy Lamb, DeMarre Carroll, Robin Lopez, and/or Patrick Beverley? Maintaining cap flexibility for a disgruntled player in 2020 who won't cost all the youth might be a better option than trading everyone not named Lebron for AD this sumner and I think would certainly be the wiser course of action than going all in on Harris as a second option. I might even take on the last year of Batum or Whiteside's contract for a draft pick rather than commit four years of max money to Harris. |
Good point.. I'm off the Harris train. Though I think he makes us a solid competitor in the west. |
If Harris takes $16M and the Lakers still have money to throw out at Danny Green and Dedmon or something, I agree. If Harris gets a 30% max and the Lakers have ~ $4M and the room exception to fix the other holes in the roster, I think they're the 6th or 7th seed next season at best.
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| greek laker wrote: | | I like Crabbe too, if we can get a pick, it would be a win win |
I've done the math. If Brooklyn can dump Crabbe, they'll have enough to sign Durant.
They'd have enough motivation to possibly give up two picks, IMO.
Again, it's fluid. You don't go into FA with Crabbe as the goal, but if you see that Durant wants Brooklyn and Leonard isn't an option, this type of move is most prudent.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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I'd rather throw a 3yr/$45M deal at Mirotic than a 4yr/$120M deal at Harris.
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CamReddish
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | | greek laker wrote: | | I like Crabbe too, if we can get a pick, it would be a win win |
I've done the math. If Brooklyn can dump Crabbe, they'll have enough to sign Durant.
They'd have enough motivation to possibly give up two picks, IMO.
Again, it's fluid. You don't go into FA with Crabbe as the goal, but if you see that Durant wants Brooklyn and Leonard isn't an option, this type of move is most prudent. |
Don't they already have enough for Durant?
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | | greek laker wrote: | | I like Crabbe too, if we can get a pick, it would be a win win |
I've done the math. If Brooklyn can dump Crabbe, they'll have enough to sign Durant.
They'd have enough motivation to possibly give up two picks, IMO.
Again, it's fluid. You don't go into FA with Crabbe as the goal, but if you see that Durant wants Brooklyn and Leonard isn't an option, this type of move is most prudent. |
Good stuff, Joe.
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Mirotic doesn't fit though, but I feel you though from a value standpoint.
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SocalDevin
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Please don't max Tobias Harris. |
What would you like to see done if we miss on the marquee free agents?
I'm not advocating for Harris btw.. just seems like a not so bad consolation if we can't get anything else. |
I think you're duplicating a skillset that Kuz will eventually be able to replicate at a cheaper price and that Kyle's growth will be directly stunted since he and Harris are both effectively mono-positional players. I think you could more than replicate Harris' production for 1/3rd of the price by signing a Morii twin to rotate with Kuzma.
Sadly I don't know where you get good middle class value this summer outside of some of the intriguing, under the radar RFAs. Noah Vonleh, Jeremy Lamb, DeMarre Carroll, Robin Lopez, and/or Patrick Beverley? Maintaining cap flexibility for a disgruntled player in 2020 who won't cost all the youth might be a better option than trading everyone not named Lebron for AD this sumner and I think would certainly be the wiser course of action than going all in on Harris as a second option. I might even take on the last year of Batum or Whiteside's contract for a draft pick rather than commit four years of max money to Harris. |
Good point.. I'm off the Harris train. Though I think he makes us a solid competitor in the west. |
If Harris takes $16M and the Lakers still have money to throw out at Danny Green and Dedmon or something, I agree. If Harris gets a 30% max and the Lakers have ~ $4M and the room exception to fix the other holes in the roster, I think they're the 6th or 7th seed next season at best. |
I'd say 4 or 5 considering Ball and Ingram's production, and improvement. That scenario is less than ideal though, you guys are right. He doesn't make sense financially. |
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| LBJ23 wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | greek laker wrote: | | I like Crabbe too, if we can get a pick, it would be a win win |
I've done the math. If Brooklyn can dump Crabbe, they'll have enough to sign Durant.
They'd have enough motivation to possibly give up two picks, IMO.
Again, it's fluid. You don't go into FA with Crabbe as the goal, but if you see that Durant wants Brooklyn and Leonard isn't an option, this type of move is most prudent. |
Don't they already have enough for Durant? |
No sir.
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CamReddish
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | I'd rather throw a 3yr/$45M deal at Mirotic than a 4yr/$120M deal at Harris. |
If we can get Mirotic, Danny Green, and DeAndre Jordan with our cap that would be hell of an offseason, or even keep McGee instead of Jordan.
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CamReddish
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | | LBJ23 wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | greek laker wrote: | | I like Crabbe too, if we can get a pick, it would be a win win |
I've done the math. If Brooklyn can dump Crabbe, they'll have enough to sign Durant.
They'd have enough motivation to possibly give up two picks, IMO.
Again, it's fluid. You don't go into FA with Crabbe as the goal, but if you see that Durant wants Brooklyn and Leonard isn't an option, this type of move is most prudent. |
Don't they already have enough for Durant? |
No sir. |
Sweet. I would take Crabbe also.
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