| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Jesusdelonla
Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 15430
|
 Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | The year-long competition between Paul George's buyer's remorse and scorned Lakers fans' schadenfreude will be epically pathetic. |
Same with randle scenario right? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
CRoost
Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2017
Posts: 4798
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Given the particular financial and structural constraints the FO was facing, I'm more annoyed they didn't find a trade for Julius before last season's deadline - not even a future 2nd round pick? - and that they didn't re-sign Brook Lopez. |
I think what happened was this.
They wanted to move him in the early season, no buyers.
But when he started he was too good for a 2nd round pick dump (i.e. Mudiay) but not good enough for a substantial trade (b/c of impending RFA status). So he was stuck in some middleground.net. 
Lakers did jerk him around, and they probably thought they could keep him around as insurance if no max FAs joined in 2018, and when that time came after LBJ committed and PG didn't, there was some acrimony that was brewing for a while. Lakers offered the QO which is half of what he's getting now and only 1 year, and Jules/Mintz asked for a release which the Lakers gave.
Lakers could have played hard ball and forcibly kept him here but they didn't. Was that right or wrong? Too soon to tell.
I give them until 2019 FA to make that determination. I do think Deng's cap hogging deal hurt Jules's chances of staying long-term. |
I thought the Lakers messed it up no matter how you slice it. I can’t blame our front office though. Getting the best player right now is a no brainer. And it’s more enticing to make a run at marquee players next year than hoping Jules can get there. |
they had three primary goals it seems:
1. carve out cap space for 2 max FAs (done); get max FAs (50% complete, and got the unquestioned #1 FA);
2. get rid of cap hogging deals (Moz/Deng, done). It wasn't cheap to do so obviously.
3. develop and evaluate young prospects to see which are worth keeping.
I REALLY wanted Jules back. But I feel like #1/2 really hurt Jules long-term. He balled out last year and it was so satisfying seeing him improve so much.
If we didn't have Deng's cap clogging deal, I think there's a solid chance Jules is on this team. |
Well if you think about it, we do have a lot of flexibility with that cap space. Not only we can make a run with marquee free agents but we can also make a trade for marquee players who are not happy with their situations.
I agree we paid a heavy price on that MozDeng mistake . |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
I can honestly say that the FO has done a fabulous job AND lament Jules being let go. It's not contradictory. When you really look at how we got to where we are, you realize how crippling Moz/Deng was on this team. Unfortunately DLO/Jules were lottery guys that were the price the team paid to get rid of them (or were the cap causalities).
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | The year-long competition between Paul George's buyer's remorse and scorned Lakers fans' schadenfreude will be epically pathetic. |
Well. He still gets what, $130m?
I think the final laugh will be his. |
And he became buddies with Nas, which I'm jealous of.
_________________
Under New Management |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | The year-long competition between Paul George's buyer's remorse and scorned Lakers fans' schadenfreude will be epically pathetic. |
Same with randle scenario right? |
I don't know, maybe if you stop posting about him it will all go away. Worth a try, right?
_________________
Under New Management |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pjiddy
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29077
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Palin wrote: | | Middleton + WCS good for plan C? |
I've been waiting for WCS to blossom for years. Was last night the shape of things to come or that random amazing game that initially tantalizes but sets you up for greater disappointment the next several games. He's a restricted FA this year. The Kings may blink at throwing him a big contract, but I can also see Vlade refusing to lose him to the Lakers.
I made a pro Middleton post a few pages back, but it was mostly a thought exercise. I think there's zero chance Milwaukee doesn't pay what it takes to retain him, assuming no major injury.
I honestly have no idea as to what our best FA plan is. Hopefully someone emerges because I think all the obvious names are staying put or heading elsewhere. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I can honestly say that the FO has done a fabulous job AND lament Jules being let go. It's not contradictory. When you really look at how we got to where we are, you realize how crippling Moz/Deng was on this team. Unfortunately DLO/Jules were lottery guys that were the price the team paid to get rid of them (or were the cap causalities). |
If all goes to plan we will end up with the equivalent of trading LBJ and a slightly younger star (KD/Kawhi/Klay) for DLO, Clarkson, Nance, Randle...
It looks like Julius will be the most painful loss... but as long as they execute the second signing... no one can question the choice as it should establish us as a championship contender and we will be able to lure other marquee names when LBJ retires... As long as we keep the future in mind, and not botch the transition like we did with Kobe's farewell tour period... this should jump start the franchise for the next 20 years. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Four Decade Bandwagon
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8160
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think seeing lbj and his 34 minutes tomorrow will help drown some of yall’s sorrows away. |
James playing well has little to do with the Lakers not keeping Randle.
Many (including you) wanted both. And if not Randle a suitable replacement. So far not seeing it.
James is likely to put up MVP numbers. The question is going to be the support around him. Lots of finesse and small ball options on the roster.
The key is going to be how badly the Lakers get outplayed in the paint and on physical play. Can they consistently be quicker, faster and use length or do they get pushed around and "out sized" on a nightly basis. Lakers were pushed around by the the likes of Boban and Plumlee.. Imagine what front line starters are going to do to them when Kuzma and Beasley (or Zubac?) are being relied upon.
Lakers will rely on finesse. Some nights it will work but others the rebounding and interior play is going to get ugly.
I still think the Lakers made a blunder not keeping Randle. Over the course of the season it will just become more evident IMO.
Plan for next season has to be for the coveted max FA AND a physical presence at center. Not seriously contending until this deficiency is fixed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bard207
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 7713
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Given the particular financial and structural constraints the FO was facing, I'm more annoyed they didn't find a trade for Julius before last season's deadline - not even a future 2nd round pick? - and that they didn't re-sign Brook Lopez. |
I think what happened was this.
They wanted to move him in the early season, no buyers.
But when he started he was too good for a 2nd round pick dump (i.e. Mudiay) but not good enough for a substantial trade (b/c of impending RFA status). So he was stuck in some middleground.net.
Lakers did jerk him around, and they probably thought they could keep him around as insurance if no max FAs joined in 2018, and when that time came after LBJ committed and PG didn't, there was some acrimony that was brewing for a while. Lakers offered the QO which is half of what he's getting now and only 1 year, and Jules/Mintz asked for a release which the Lakers gave.
Lakers could have played hard ball and forcibly kept him here but they didn't. Was that right or wrong? Too soon to tell.
I give them until 2019 FA to make that determination. I do think Deng's cap hogging deal hurt Jules's chances of staying long-term. |
If their plans were to eventually phase Randle out, then why wasn't a second round pick good enough?
They could have played hard ball, but his cap hold of $12.4 million would have held back other things while Randle & Mintz had a staring contest with Magic & Pelinka for the summer. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cital
Star Player
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 3649
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
Still rumblings that LeBron wants to play with lillard...
Would you guys do Ball, Pope, Zubac, and a 1st for Lillard?
If we pulled off this trade we would still have around 17.5 million in cap space, plus the room exception, to sign other players next summer... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | James playing well has little to do with the Lakers not keeping Randle. |
Never said that. But people are antsy right now b/c the Lakers/LBJ haven't played yet, and many are extrapolating from the great game Jules played last night. 82 games is a marathon and as we saw from last year, a motivated (contract year again) Jules is a hungry player.
When we see the greatness of LBJ tonight when he's playing 34 minutes instead of 15, some of this will go away and we will see why the Lakers made the painful moves to get him.
| Quote: | | Lakers will rely on finesse. |
Maybe. But LBJ is a brute force player that very few teams can match up with. People seem to forget this.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | If their plans were to eventually phase Randle out, then why wasn't a second round pick good enough?
They could have played hard ball, but his cap hold of $12.4 million would have held back other things while Randle & Mintz had a staring contest with Magic & Pelinka for the summer. |
Like I said, he probably started playing too well once they stopped jerking him around and started him. So the offers probably were too insulting to them (and maybe they wanted him as insurance in case things went awry in 2018).
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pjiddy
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29077
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I can honestly say that the FO has done a fabulous job AND lament Jules being let go. It's not contradictory. When you really look at how we got to where we are, you realize how crippling Moz/Deng was on this team. Unfortunately DLO/Jules were lottery guys that were the price the team paid to get rid of them (or were the cap causalities). |
DLO at least had an identifiable return in the form of an extra pick and shedding salary. And given everything GT has passed along about him and his personality, and his clear lack of growth and injury issues, it seems like the right move. Maybe Randle will never make another 3 pointer again, but there was a point where the Lakers knew they weren't keeping him (agree with BVH it was probably before the season even started) and had time to find something for him, while doing their best to manage egos in case they wanted to keep him.
I remember Mitch got a lot of flak for not trading Pau and just letting him go for nothing. In this league, margins matter. Squeezing an extra pick down the road can be the difference between getting a Kuzma or Hart on your team, or having that extra asset that gets you a superstar in a trade. A 7 game series can come down to a guy fouling out or getting an injured and do you have someone that can step up in their place. That's why it's not "nitpicking" to not simply satisfy yourself with "we got LeBron." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| pjiddy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I can honestly say that the FO has done a fabulous job AND lament Jules being let go. It's not contradictory. When you really look at how we got to where we are, you realize how crippling Moz/Deng was on this team. Unfortunately DLO/Jules were lottery guys that were the price the team paid to get rid of them (or were the cap causalities). |
DLO at least had an identifiable return in the form of an extra pick and shedding salary. And given everything GT has passed along about him and his personality, and his clear lack of growth and injury issues, it seems like the right move. Maybe Randle will never make another 3 pointer again, but there was a point where the Lakers knew they weren't keeping him (agree with BVH it was probably before the season even started) and had time to find something for him, while doing their best to manage egos in case they wanted to keep him.
I remember Mitch got a lot of flak for not trading Pau and just letting him go for nothing. In this league, margins matter. Squeezing an extra pick down the road can be the difference between getting a Kuzma or Hart on your team, or having that extra asset that gets you a superstar in a trade. A 7 game series can come down to a guy fouling out or getting an injured and do you have someone that can step up in their place. That's why it's not "nitpicking" to not simply satisfy yourself with "we got LeBron." |
That's if you assume that we only have 1 season left.
LBJ's 4 year deal shows he's here for the long haul. Our full championship level squad won't be assembled until 2019. So getting LBJ to me was a major first step. We are lamenting taking 4 steps forward (LBJ) after taking 1 step back (Jules being let go).
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pjiddy
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29077
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| cital wrote: | Still rumblings that LeBron wants to play with lillard...
Would you guys do Ball, Pope, Zubac, and a 1st for Lillard?
If we pulled off this trade we would still have around 17.5 million in cap space, plus the room exception, to sign other players next summer... |
I'm not big on Lillard. I think we need more help defensively and Lonzo might be an All-Defense level PG, while Lillard is someone you attack. Does the extra offense Lillard provides offset the defense? I think Lonzo's passing and defense will provide just as much value to this team, and that's before he starts knocking down shots. If he becomes a 37% shooter from deep, it's not even a question for me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
You guys also forget that maybe LBJ had a hand in picking who he wanted to play with. Maybe these wacky choices are the price we had to pay in order to land the big fish.
Again, I'm cool with the maneuverings as long as we end up with the 2nd big signing. I'm still operating with the working theory that we passed up on PG to sign KD or Kawhi. I find it very hard to believe that he didn't want to come here when we would be a championship contender, when he was willing to come here when we were a bad, unproven team.
So the Randle thing could be a LBJ call as well... knowing that we had a KD or Kawhi locked up behind the scenes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bard207
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 7713
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | If their plans were to eventually phase Randle out, then why wasn't a second round pick good enough?
They could have played hard ball, but his cap hold of $12.4 million would have held back other things while Randle & Mintz had a staring contest with Magic & Pelinka for the summer. |
Like I said, he probably started playing too well once they stopped jerking him around and started him. So the offers probably were too insulting to them (and maybe they wanted him as insurance in case things went awry in 2018). |
If I have it remembered correctly, Pau Gasol was getting phased out and the previous FO wouldn't settle for a second round pick. Eventually he left and there was zero compensation.
Why the continued desire with the new FO to expect more than being offered and eventually get nothing at all? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
noahp45
Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 6572
Location: Oceanside Ca
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | The year-long competition between Paul George's buyer's remorse and scorned Lakers fans' schadenfreude will be epically pathetic. |
Same with randle scenario right? |
I don't know, maybe if you stop posting about him it will all go away. Worth a try, right? |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerSD
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23789
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| pjiddy wrote: | | cital wrote: | Still rumblings that LeBron wants to play with lillard...
Would you guys do Ball, Pope, Zubac, and a 1st for Lillard?
If we pulled off this trade we would still have around 17.5 million in cap space, plus the room exception, to sign other players next summer... |
I'm not big on Lillard. I think we need more help defensively and Lonzo might be an All-Defense level PG, while Lillard is someone you attack. Does the extra offense Lillard provides offset the defense? I think Lonzo's passing and defense will provide just as much value to this team, and that's before he starts knocking down shots. If he becomes a 37% shooter from deep, it's not even a question for me. |
So to recap...most of the smoke recently has been KD, AD or Lillard.
Wonder if it’s someone else like Klay or some out of left field trade (like Kyrie scenario) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
noahp45
Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 6572
Location: Oceanside Ca
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Isn't this the "Free agency and trade thread" Why are people crying about players that belong to other teams? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| cital wrote: | Still rumblings that LeBron wants to play with lillard...
Would you guys do Ball, Pope, Zubac, and a 1st for Lillard?
If we pulled off this trade we would still have around 17.5 million in cap space, plus the room exception, to sign other players next summer... |
Portland has been rocked by the loss of Paul Allen. Who knows what new ownership will do, but trading a fan favorite in Lillard not only within their division, but to the despised Lakers would cause a mini-revolt in Portland. There's a definite Lakers tax in the Pacific Division. Also, Lillard is under contract through 2021 and has almost zero leverage in trade demands - if a team like Philly came in with an offer of Fultz, Saric, their 2020 1st and the Heat's 2021 1st, I bet the Blazers jump on it and ship Dame far, far away.
Why not throw in guaranteed 2019 salary to Ingram and Moe (instead of Zu) to try and get closer to a third max? Ingram, Lillard, and Lebron seems to be one of the least enticing groupings potentially available this year.
_________________
Under New Management |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Bard207 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | If their plans were to eventually phase Randle out, then why wasn't a second round pick good enough?
They could have played hard ball, but his cap hold of $12.4 million would have held back other things while Randle & Mintz had a staring contest with Magic & Pelinka for the summer. |
Like I said, he probably started playing too well once they stopped jerking him around and started him. So the offers probably were too insulting to them (and maybe they wanted him as insurance in case things went awry in 2018). |
If I have it remembered correctly, Pau Gasol was getting phased out and the previous FO wouldn't settle for a second round pick. Eventually he left and there was zero compensation.
Why the continued desire with the new FO to expect more than being offered and eventually get nothing at all? |
It's natural. And remember they had his RFA rights so maybe he was the insurance plan if things went south. Could always keep him in that case.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
noahp45
Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 6572
Location: Oceanside Ca
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
lillard is not worth much.
KLAY
KL
KD
Greek
booker
are the Guys to be had. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jesusdelonla
Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 15430
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | The year-long competition between Paul George's buyer's remorse and scorned Lakers fans' schadenfreude will be epically pathetic. |
Same with randle scenario right? |
I don't know, maybe if you stop posting about him it will all go away. Worth a try, right? |
hmm i didnt made a single crying post about his game yesterday. so there is that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
2019
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10813
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| pjiddy wrote: | | cital wrote: | Still rumblings that LeBron wants to play with lillard...
Would you guys do Ball, Pope, Zubac, and a 1st for Lillard?
If we pulled off this trade we would still have around 17.5 million in cap space, plus the room exception, to sign other players next summer... |
I'm not big on Lillard. I think we need more help defensively and Lonzo might be an All-Defense level PG, while Lillard is someone you attack. Does the extra offense Lillard provides offset the defense? I think Lonzo's passing and defense will provide just as much value to this team, and that's before he starts knocking down shots. If he becomes a 37% shooter from deep, it's not even a question for me. |
I'd have a hard time turning down that deal. We'd instantly have our #2 scorer who can erupt for 50 on any night, still gives you 8 assists, and hits big time shots. If BI, Kuz, and Hart develop to the levels we all think they can (particularly BI and Kuz), IMO we'd have the pieces needed to take on GS and with smart FA signings in 2019, we could beat them. Let's say we talk Middleton to coming aboard and both Rondo and McGee take minimum/exceptipon: Lillard/Middleton/Ingram/LeBron/McGee + Kuz, Hart, Svi, Moe, Rondo.
Yeah, I can't turn that down. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
