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Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:32 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | PG would be better than AD... yet no one was pushing us to trade the whole team for PG.
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They wanted more than BI though. It's revisionist to say it was just BI. IIRC there were reports they wanted BI + 2nd pick.
I don't think AD would a be a guarantee in 2020 as a FA if we don't trade for him. IMO you either trade for him now or just walk away from the whole AD angle. |
My point still remains that it was a rational trade.
You know how much I like BI... I think he will become a star if healthy... but I can concede if he's the cost to sign AD... it makes sense to lose him to get it done.
What I can't make sense of is losing Zo and Garland or Culver and keeping only Kuzma for a player we can sign next season.
The main difference between PG and AD... is that AD is under Klutch's control... if it wasn't for LBJ's limited window... it would be clear the best play is for AD to let some dumb team trade for him... even a limited package... and then jump ship to a full team with the #4 pick and deeper core.
But because LBJ is the most important part of Klutch... they are trying to force the issue this season.
Again... good for LBJ... but not as good for the Lakers long term sustainability nor for AD who will be stuck with a weaker team and probably fewer picks and assets to rebuild. |
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Joe Pesci Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2017 Posts: 3885
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:34 am Post subject: |
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Car54 wrote: | Joe Pesci wrote: | Car54 wrote: | JustaObserver wrote: | I just dont get giving away anyone.....WHEN YOU CAN GET HIM FOR FREE NEXT SEASON OR GET HIM FOR A BAG OF GUMMIE BEARS WHEN HE GETS HURT NEAR TRADE DEADLINE.. |
Like we got Paul George? |
George ain't repped by Rich Paul -- huge difference there.
Remember the influence Mintz exerted on George?
Comparing George (and Leonard) to this Davis situation is an egregious violation analyzing context.
Comparing George to Davis is superficial/shallow analysis at best. |
I see the difference but it’s foolish to wait. I love the kids but we’re on the clock with Lebrons prime. The time is now. We have two seasons don’t make it one by holding off. |
Okay, new argument.
If you believe the influence of James and Paul are real, then you'd feel confident that he'd come eventually.
If you're worried about James having the opportunity to win more rings, wouldn't he need the best team possible?
Aren't his chances for a ring better with Ball and Garland than without?
I know you're worried about "a year of waste" on Lebron, but this is a clear case of delayed gratification. If the Lakers wait, they keep Ball, who is a championship role-player, and Garland who is an elite shooter shot creator. If they want their cake immediately, they're left scrambling to scrape a full-team together and probably won't challenge for a ring in year one anyway.
If you're truly concerned with James' legacy, you should be in favor of keeping these young horses. If anything, they'll help him win rings.
Davis is all but a Laker. They just have to not be desperate ... and wait.
Their team will be markedly better if they do ... despite a possible year of averageness. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:35 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | What I can't make sense of is losing Zo and Garland or Culver and keeping only Kuzma for a player we can sign next season. |
I don't think you will be able to carve out a max for AD unless you dump Zo and/or BI after we sign a max FA in 2019.
So that's why if we don't trade for him now, we move on forward as if we are going without AD.
So your assumption that we can just sign him outright in 2020 is illusory IMO. B/c you end up losing all of these young guys anyways (and don't get AD for a year and waste another year) to carve out 35m in cap space for 2020 (which would likely, and ironically take getting rid of #4/Zo/BI). _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:35 am Post subject: |
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JustaObserver wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | PG would be better than AD... yet no one was pushing us to trade the whole team for PG.
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They wanted more than BI though. It's revisionist to say it was just BI. IIRC there were reports they wanted BI + 2nd pick.
I don't think AD would a be a guarantee in 2020 as a FA if we don't trade for him. IMO you either trade for him now or just walk away from the whole AD angle. |
IF PG is better than AD....THEN WHY NOW WE GIVING UP THE FARM?
MY opinion you give 1 Player + 2nd rounder...DONT LIKE IT?
SEE YA AD in 2020
Lebron and Klunk: looking sideways
Me(MY Jerry WEST Feelings): You want to play with AD? I can put you on that plane this second and on draft night have ZION be in LA. |
Just a pro tip. Using CAPS doesn't make your argument MORE PERSUASIVE. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:36 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, this doesn't hold much value. If you sign a max FA, then your 2020 AD plans essentially go out the window. So either you trade for him now or just walk away completely from AD. There is a slim chance of 2020 AD unless you trade away everything you didn't want to trade away in the summer of 2019. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:38 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | I know you're worried about "a year of waste" on Lebron, but this is a clear case of delayed gratification. If the Lakers wait, they keep Ball, who is a championship role-player, and Garland who is an elite shooter shot creator. If they want their cake immediately, they're left scrambling to scrape a full-team together and probably won't challenge for a ring in year one anyway. |
This is why I can't subscribe to the "but we can just get AD in 2020" counterargument. It's weak and not really rooted in reality unless we completely whiff out on a max FA again and have to sign a placeholder team all over again. That isn't desireable IMO.
If we don't trade for AD, let's move on. Build with a 2nd max and the YUTES. Stop having the Sword of AD-Damacles hang over the franchise in perpetuity. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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JustaObserver Star Player
Joined: 20 May 2017 Posts: 3039
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:39 am Post subject: |
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Sentient Meat wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | PG would be better than AD... yet no one was pushing us to trade the whole team for PG.
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They wanted more than BI though. It's revisionist to say it was just BI. IIRC there were reports they wanted BI + 2nd pick.
I don't think AD would a be a guarantee in 2020 as a FA if we don't trade for him. IMO you either trade for him now or just walk away from the whole AD angle. |
My point still remains that it was a rational trade.
You know how much I like BI... I think he will become a star if healthy... but I can concede if he's the cost to sign AD... it makes sense to lose him to get it done.
What I can't make sense of is losing Zo and Garland or Culver and keeping only Kuzma for a player we can sign next season.
The main difference between PG and AD... is that AD is under Klutch's control... if it wasn't for LBJ's limited window... it would be clear the best play is for AD to let some dumb team trade for him... even a limited package... and then jump ship to a full team with the #4 pick and deeper core.
But because LBJ is the most important part of Klutch... they are trying to force the issue this season.
Again... good for LBJ... but not as good for the Lakers long term sustainability nor for AD who will be stuck with a weaker team and probably fewer picks and assets to rebuild. |
^ THIS! THIS! THIS! IS WHAT IM GETTING AT!
You want BI? Fine but you not about to gut the team for this guy! Just because Klutch want him over here...WHO ARE THEY?! WE THE LAKERS WE TRUMP YOU ALL DAY EVERY DAY!!! ALSO ANOTHER REASON MAGIC WAS A PUTZ....HE was like he was in Klutch's pocket trading everyone!!! SEEMS JUST TO APPEASE L'KING and KLUTCH where WEST or BUSS would have told them to kick rocks!! |
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Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:40 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | What I can't make sense of is losing Zo and Garland or Culver and keeping only Kuzma for a player we can sign next season. |
I don't think you will be able to carve out a max for AD unless you dump Zo and/or BI after we sign a max FA in 2019.
So that's why if we don't trade for him now, we move on forward as if we are going without AD.
So your assumption that we can just sign him outright in 2020 is illusory IMO. B/c you end up losing all of these young guys anyways (and don't get AD for a year and waste another year) to carve out 35m in cap space for 2020 (which would likely, and ironically take getting rid of #4/Zo/BI). |
Which is why I said you sacrifice future all star BI. (I don't want this, but I understand it)
But you still keep Zo and Garland or Culver
Then maybe you keep the best of the point guards to use with AD.
The only person it benefits to rush the timeline is LBJ.
That's why this is happening.
We will be good next season... but very quickly that will change as LBJ turns 36 and 37. |
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3baller Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 Oct 2017 Posts: 992
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:41 am Post subject: |
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HAWAIIGUY27 wrote: | Car54 wrote: | JustaObserver wrote: | I just dont get giving away anyone.....WHEN YOU CAN GET HIM FOR FREE NEXT SEASON OR GET HIM FOR A BAG OF GUMMIE BEARS WHEN HE GETS HURT NEAR TRADE DEADLINE.. |
Like we got Paul George? |
It's different. PG's agent is Aaron Mintz. AD's is Rich Paul. |
Davis already said that he would re-sign with the Knicks and there's a good chance he would do the same with the Clippers. Both teams are still trying to trade for Davis.
If either of those teams do get Davis via trade, there's no guarantee that he would leave those teams for the lakers next year even if Rich Paul is his agent. |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:43 am Post subject: |
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3baller wrote: | HAWAIIGUY27 wrote: | Car54 wrote: | JustaObserver wrote: | I just dont get giving away anyone.....WHEN YOU CAN GET HIM FOR FREE NEXT SEASON OR GET HIM FOR A BAG OF GUMMIE BEARS WHEN HE GETS HURT NEAR TRADE DEADLINE.. |
Like we got Paul George? |
It's different. PG's agent is Aaron Mintz. AD's is Rich Paul. |
Davis already said that he would re-sign with the Knicks and there's a good chance he would do the same with the Clippers. Both teams are still trying to trade for Davis.
If either of those teams do get Davis via trade, there's no guarantee that he would leave those teams for the lakers next year even if Rich Paul is his agent. |
the reports are they aren't. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:43 am Post subject: |
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Sentient Meat wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | What I can't make sense of is losing Zo and Garland or Culver and keeping only Kuzma for a player we can sign next season. |
I don't think you will be able to carve out a max for AD unless you dump Zo and/or BI after we sign a max FA in 2019.
So that's why if we don't trade for him now, we move on forward as if we are going without AD.
So your assumption that we can just sign him outright in 2020 is illusory IMO. B/c you end up losing all of these young guys anyways (and don't get AD for a year and waste another year) to carve out 35m in cap space for 2020 (which would likely, and ironically take getting rid of #4/Zo/BI). |
Which is why I said you sacrifice future all star BI. (I don't want this, but I understand it)
But you still keep Zo and Garland or Culver
Then maybe you keep the best of the point guards to use with AD.
The only person it benefits to rush the timeline is LBJ.
That's why this is happening.
We will be good next season... but very quickly that will change as LBJ turns 36 and 37. |
The point is if you sign a max, you can't keep Zo/#4 and have 35m (projected 7-9 year max in 2020) for AD. You have to get rid of them too and you ironically will have the same 3 max FA team.
Now if you're arguing that we should completely forgo signing a max FA this summer so we can sign AD in 2020, that still requires getting rid of one of Zo/BI/#4 in 2020 to have the cap space if my math is right.
The "wait for AD in 2020" is not a panacea at all. It will require painful YUTES cuts too. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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lakersgreat24 Sixth Man
Joined: 18 May 2015 Posts: 99
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Joe Pesci Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2017 Posts: 3885
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:43 am Post subject: |
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Sentient Meat wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | PG would be better than AD... yet no one was pushing us to trade the whole team for PG.
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They wanted more than BI though. It's revisionist to say it was just BI. IIRC there were reports they wanted BI + 2nd pick.
I don't think AD would a be a guarantee in 2020 as a FA if we don't trade for him. IMO you either trade for him now or just walk away from the whole AD angle. |
My point still remains that it was a rational trade.
You know how much I like BI... I think he will become a star if healthy... but I can concede if he's the cost to sign AD... it makes sense to lose him to get it done.
What I can't make sense of is losing Zo and Garland or Culver and keeping only Kuzma for a player we can sign next season.
The main difference between PG and AD... is that AD is under Klutch's control... if it wasn't for LBJ's limited window... it would be clear the best play is for AD to let some dumb team trade for him... even a limited package... and then jump ship to a full team with the #4 pick and deeper core.
But because LBJ is the most important part of Klutch... they are trying to force the issue this season.
Again... good for LBJ... but not as good for the Lakers long term sustainability nor for AD who will be stuck with a weaker team and probably fewer picks and assets to rebuild. |
Agreed. Looking at it through a James lense, all you'll see is now, now , now, but if James weren't here, the overwhelming consensus would be to wait.
Clearly James wants him now, but he has no stake in the 2025 Lakers. His only concern is his basketball mortality.
Jocks are warriors and meatheads at the same time. You have to lead them, not the other way around. James has no idea what's best for him from a roster construction standpoint.
Like a child, you do what's best for them even if they don't understand at the time. |
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noahp45 Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 6572 Location: Oceanside Ca
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:43 am Post subject: |
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If KD resigns with GS for max would they still max Klay, even thou they won't have KD for the whole year? |
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LakerSD Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23731
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:45 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | “The Celtics can trade for AD, but it’ll be for one year,” Paul says. “I mean: If the Celtics traded for Anthony Davis, we would go there and we would abide by our contractual [obligations] and we would go into free agency in 2020.
via @AntDavis23 agent Rich Paul | 📝@SInow
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Rich Paul warns... |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:45 am Post subject: |
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Lakerchaq wrote: | Why should we give up all these guys?
Pick two
Ingram
Ball
4th
Kuzma
Or we sign him next off season |
The desire to keep a max slot. And we still give up at least one to sign Davis in 2020. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:45 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Agreed. Looking at it through a James lense, all you'll see is now, now , now, but if James weren't here, the overwhelming consensus would be to wait. |
Let's take this a step further. So if instead of LBJ, we had PG13, you don't think we would be considering AD as well as pursuing a 2nd max FA this summer? I don't think LBJ necessarily changes the equation. He's a popular punching bag with Klutch, but if we had PG13, IMO we are still looking to trade for AD and build a PG/max FA/AD team. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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lakersgreat24 Sixth Man
Joined: 18 May 2015 Posts: 99
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:47 am Post subject: |
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Celtics fans are pissed about Rich Paul's comments. I dont think they understand that Boston isn't a place people want to play. I hate them because of the Lakers but bias aside I'd never want to play there. The racism some of the teams used to experience there and to an extent today is an issue. |
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danzag Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013 Posts: 22244 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:48 am Post subject: |
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LakerSD wrote: | Quote: | “The Celtics can trade for AD, but it’ll be for one year,” Paul says. “I mean: If the Celtics traded for Anthony Davis, we would go there and we would abide by our contractual [obligations] and we would go into free agency in 2020.
via @AntDavis23 agent Rich Paul | 📝@SInow
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Rich Paul warns... |
Delicious |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:49 am Post subject: |
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lakersgreat24 wrote: | Celtics fans are pissed about Rich Paul's comments. I dont think they understand that Boston isn't a place people want to play. I hate them because of the Lakers but bias aside I'd never want to play there. The racism some of the teams used to experience there and to an extent today is an issue. |
I don't think it's the racism issues today about Boston.
If you read AD's dad's comments about Boston, IIRC it was how they treated IT that really irked him.
I mean some big time FAs have signed with Boston (Horford, Hayward most recently) and other RFAs have re-upped there (Smart). _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:52 am Post subject: |
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IMO a clear example of impatience is not AD, as I think reasonable minds can differ. It's trading our cap space and #4 pick/young assets for someone like Conley or CP3. That would mean they're strictly trying to appease LBJ.
AD is 26 so he's someone you're going to build around in the future with other max level FAs once LBJ retires. People make it sound like AD is some rotation level player who is 35. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:52 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | JustaObserver wrote: | Car54 wrote: | JustaObserver wrote: | I just dont get giving away anyone.....WHEN YOU CAN GET HIM FOR FREE NEXT SEASON OR GET HIM FOR A BAG OF GUMMIE BEARS WHEN HE GETS HURT NEAR TRADE DEADLINE.. |
Like we got Paul George? |
just because you didnt get him you going to cry about it? or Say "Hey the next star that shows up..we going to trade all our talent for and make sure we get them?" SAD...i wont..did they make the finals in OKC or is it GS STILL?
Also they had a window to get PG but they instead went after LB and KL INSTEAD OF HIM...and he felt disrespected...soooo owell |
I've posted actual quotes by PG13 about why he chose OKC over the Lakers. Where did he ever say the bolded? Agenda much? |
When he said he was upset that the Lakers didn’t try to trade for him? _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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lakersgreat24 Sixth Man
Joined: 18 May 2015 Posts: 99
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:52 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | lakersgreat24 wrote: | Celtics fans are pissed about Rich Paul's comments. I dont think they understand that Boston isn't a place people want to play. I hate them because of the Lakers but bias aside I'd never want to play there. The racism some of the teams used to experience there and to an extent today is an issue. |
I don't think it's the racism issues today about Boston.
If you read AD's dad's comments about Boston, IIRC it was how they treated IT that really irked him.
I mean some big time FAs have signed with Boston (Horford, Hayward most recently) and other RFAs have re-upped there (Smart). |
From an outsider's perspective this is what I see. Fair or not. Remember KG declining to go there before they got Ray Allen? |
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Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:52 am Post subject: |
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That's the one selling point we have over all the elite teams.
We never pressure anyone to play... lol
That should be our new team motto.
Forget SA with Pop... Boston with IT... GSW with crocodile tears Bob Myers...
Come to LA... where convalescence is king!
Sprain your ankle? No problem... sit out the rest of the season... |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:55 am Post subject: |
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HAWAIIGUY27 wrote: | Car54 wrote: | JustaObserver wrote: | I just dont get giving away anyone.....WHEN YOU CAN GET HIM FOR FREE NEXT SEASON OR GET HIM FOR A BAG OF GUMMIE BEARS WHEN HE GETS HURT NEAR TRADE DEADLINE.. |
Like we got Paul George? |
It's different. PG's agent is Aaron Mintz. AD's is Rich Paul. |
True, Mintz has shown to be much sharper than Paul. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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