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Jon Lovitz
Starting Rotation
Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Posts: 325
Location: Silver City, New Mexico
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 Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Jon Lovitz wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Jon Lovitz wrote: | | Can we stop posting anything that comes from Arye. Reading through all these pages makes it seem like he's an actual insider. He's NOT. |
Are you the real Jon Lovitz? |
A Lifetime supply of Hummus!
Does that answer your question? |
I loved you in Rat Race! |
At least someone appreciates my work!
_________________
A Lifetime Supply of Hummus! |
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Stumpy25
Star Player
Joined: 27 Oct 2016
Posts: 1314
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | Anyone notice Larry Coon hasn't posted here on LG at all to confirm or dispel the supposed rumor that the Lakers made the Deal for AD without a capologist going over the numbers properly?
I say Lary Coon is busy being one of the Lakers said "capologists" and that's why he can't post here.
That also means that the media has it wrong, cause Larry wouldn't mess up like that .
Just my two cents... |
I thought someone claimed he had posted on Twitter about it and posted one of his tweets this week claiming the Lakers could not afford him. I am sure he was joking, but that likely suggests he is not involved. |
Larry Coon Twitter (June 16)
Thomas Browne
| Quote: |
Thomas Browne
@VirtueNotVice
@LarryCoon LC, would you consider working for the Lakers as
a "Cap Consultant"?
🤘🏼😎🤘🏼
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Larry Coon
| Quote: |
Rob can't afford me.right now
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What can I say,
the man goes straight for the punchline.
EJ - I only wish the Lakers would come and sweep him off his feet... |
Larry Coon is not the only capologist in the NBA, I'm sure there's a lot of guys and according to Ramona the Lakers do have someone. |
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scoobs
Star Player
Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 4746
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Stumpy25 wrote: | | epak wrote: | We dont believe you Arye 
| Quote: | Arye Abraham
@arye_abraham
An account of what truly unfolded during the Lakers/Pels trade negotiations and the trade completion date disagreement: During negotiations, Pelinka asked to have the 7/30 completion date. Griffin asked for a large sweetener. Pelinka replied that he’d rather (1/2) |
| Quote: | Arye Abraham
@arye_abraham
scan the market and pay less w/ a 3rd team involved. Now, Griffin would still agree to 7/30 but would still want the sweetener. This is why LAL agreed to a deal with the 7/6 completion date. Their backup plan is to delay to 7/30 and pay a sweetener to Griffin, sources say. (2/2) |
Bye Kuz if it means hello Kawhi is OK with me. |
Nobody knows what KL or KI is going to do, it's like blind faith. Keep Kuz and you have a pretty good player to mix with LBJ and AD. Take the rest of the money and fill the roster with shooters and good role players. |
I hear you and Kuz is great value for what he is paid. However, where would Kuz fit with AD anyway? Will AD play center? The Lakers experimented with Kuz at the 5 and he wasn't very good there. If AD is on board with moving to the 5, then that is great. But even then, if we move Kuz to create more space and we strike out on a free agent, there are still better stretch 4's and 5's on the free agent market anyway. Stretch 4s: Harris, Mirotic, the kid who played for Chicago/Washington, Marcus Morris and im sure there are others that I am leaving out. Stretch 5s: Lopez, Vucevic, Horford, and i'm sure there are more that im leaving out too. |
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epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | epak wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | epak wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | epak wrote: | We dont believe you Arye
| Quote: | Arye Abraham
@arye_abraham
An account of what truly unfolded during the Lakers/Pels trade negotiations and the trade completion date disagreement: During negotiations, Pelinka asked to have the 7/30 completion date. Griffin asked for a large sweetener. Pelinka replied that he’d rather (1/2) |
| Quote: | Arye Abraham
@arye_abraham
scan the market and pay less w/ a 3rd team involved. Now, Griffin would still agree to 7/30 but would still want the sweetener. This is why LAL agreed to a deal with the 7/6 completion date. Their backup plan is to delay to 7/30 and pay a sweetener to Griffin, sources say. (2/2) |
Bye Kuz if it means hello Kawhi is OK with me. |
more sweetener huh.
lmfao. |
Does it shock you? Rob is weird like that. |
it's true mans he negotiated this joint alone and messed it up |
Once most of the info comes out after the deals, I'll join you in dogging Rob if the team doesn't look good roster wise. |
info is out fam. he's a hack. he still got a chance to salvage this but the tab keeps getting longer on the pieces his inexperience is costing us |
Like I said, if our roster sucks, I will join you. |
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The Brow and the Bron
Starting Rotation
Joined: 31 Jan 2019
Posts: 391
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | The Brow and the Bron wrote: | The midnight tear fest begins. Still no FACTS, just hyperbole and hypothetical theory's.
Convicting without proof or facts is AWESOME. |
I agree we should wait to see what happens... but I've only see you post one sided posts that support your agenda as well |
That's the thing I really don't have an agenda.
I honestly do not believe reports good or bad. I read what I read, I see what I see and I base off of that. I love the Lakers, but I do not shy away from saying if something has been done wrong.
I don't know the parameters or the facts, so I'm witholding judgement based on what I know and I have researched on people,teams, and organizations.
If it is proven that what momo and arye and woj and everybody else says is fact , I will be the first one to hammer Rob and the Lakers, but I will allow for the process to play out before judging.
_________________
2 of my favorite players are now DEAD to me R.I.P. klaw and pg 13
WOJ is a (bleep) CUCARACHA
Cockroach |
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Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Stumpy25 wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | Anyone notice Larry Coon hasn't posted here on LG at all to confirm or dispel the supposed rumor that the Lakers made the Deal for AD without a capologist going over the numbers properly?
I say Lary Coon is busy being one of the Lakers said "capologists" and that's why he can't post here.
That also means that the media has it wrong, cause Larry wouldn't mess up like that .
Just my two cents... |
I thought someone claimed he had posted on Twitter about it and posted one of his tweets this week claiming the Lakers could not afford him. I am sure he was joking, but that likely suggests he is not involved. |
Larry Coon Twitter (June 16)
Thomas Browne
| Quote: |
Thomas Browne
@VirtueNotVice
@LarryCoon LC, would you consider working for the Lakers as
a "Cap Consultant"?
🤘🏼😎🤘🏼
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Larry Coon
| Quote: |
Rob can't afford me.right now
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What can I say,
the man goes straight for the punchline.
EJ - I only wish the Lakers would come and sweep him off his feet... |
Larry Coon is not the only capologist in the NBA, I'm sure there's a lot of guys and according to Ramona the Lakers do have someone. |
Bard identified him earlier today.
Forgot his name already. |
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Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| The Brow and the Bron wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | The Brow and the Bron wrote: | The midnight tear fest begins. Still no FACTS, just hyperbole and hypothetical theory's.
Convicting without proof or facts is AWESOME. |
I agree we should wait to see what happens... but I've only see you post one sided posts that support your agenda as well |
That's the thing I really don't have an agenda.
I honestly do not believe reports good or bad. I read what I read, I see what I see and I base off of that. I love the Lakers, but I do not shy away from saying if something has been done wrong.
I don't know the parameters or the facts, so I'm witholding judgement based on what I know and I have researched on people,teams, and organizations.
If it is proven that what momo and arye and woj and everybody else says is fact , I will be the first one to hammer Rob and the Lakers, but I will allow for the process to play out before judging. |
Fair enough... hopefully it won't come to that... but we don't land the elite... I hope to hear from you. |
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Bard207
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 7713
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | Anyone notice Larry Coon hasn't posted here on LG at all to confirm or dispel the supposed rumor that the Lakers made the Deal for AD without a capologist going over the numbers properly?
I say Lary Coon is busy being one of the Lakers said "capologists" and that's why he can't post here.
That also means that the media has it wrong, cause Larry wouldn't mess up like that .
Just my two cents... |
I thought someone claimed he had posted on Twitter about it and posted one of his tweets this week claiming the Lakers could not afford him. I am sure he was joking, but that likely suggests he is not involved. |
Larry Coon Twitter (June 16)
Thomas Browne
| Quote: |
Thomas Browne
@VirtueNotVice
@LarryCoon LC, would you consider working for the Lakers as
a "Cap Consultant"?
🤘🏼😎🤘🏼
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Larry Coon
| Quote: |
Rob can't afford me.right now
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What can I say,
the man goes straight for the punchline.
EJ - I only wish the Lakers would come and sweep him off his feet... |
He has a more recent post that might be related to this.
Larry Coon Twitter
Glenn D Brown
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@LarryCoon, do NBA teams consult with you on how to construct trades to their best advantage? For ex., could LAL contact you to help them undo what appears to be a massive FUBAR on their part re the AD trade? Thanks.
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Larry Coon
| Quote: |
What's the first rule of Fight Club?
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The Brow and the Bron
Starting Rotation
Joined: 31 Jan 2019
Posts: 391
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | The Brow and the Bron wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | The Brow and the Bron wrote: | The midnight tear fest begins. Still no FACTS, just hyperbole and hypothetical theory's.
Convicting without proof or facts is AWESOME. |
I agree we should wait to see what happens... but I've only see you post one sided posts that support your agenda as well |
That's the thing I really don't have an agenda.
I honestly do not believe reports good or bad. I read what I read, I see what I see and I base off of that. I love the Lakers, but I do not shy away from saying if something has been done wrong.
I don't know the parameters or the facts, so I'm witholding judgement based on what I know and I have researched on people,teams, and organizations.
If it is proven that what momo and arye and woj and everybody else says is fact , I will be the first one to hammer Rob and the Lakers, but I will allow for the process to play out before judging. |
Fair enough... hopefully it won't come to that... but we don't land the elite... I hope to hear from you. |
We will know soon enough, and maybe my definition of elite is different than yours. Nothing wrong with that.
Thank you for a normal discussion.
We are all Laker fans first and foremost.
_________________
2 of my favorite players are now DEAD to me R.I.P. klaw and pg 13
WOJ is a (bleep) CUCARACHA
Cockroach |
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Stumpy25
Star Player
Joined: 27 Oct 2016
Posts: 1314
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | Stumpy25 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Stumpy25 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Why tf would we need a sweetner? with all those picks and pick swaps Griffin should have agreed to any date we wanted to complete. No one could come close to topping our offer |
Because Griffin wants as much as he can get, and he tried to back the Lakers into a corner. I'd say dude I got what I wanted and I hope you become diabetic with all the sugar I gave you. I would have kept July 6 simply not to give Griffin any more. |
Rob got hustled by an elite GM. That's why. |
That's actually the opposite, he did not give in any longer and he got AD which is what he wanted. Gave them 3 good young players all with injury issues, and a bunch of worthless 1st round picks in late 20's. If the date change caused me to give up Kuzma as an example I'd say no, I'll figure another way to get money without giving you anything more. |
No, he got absolutely played by Griffin. We had all the leverage yet Rob still couldn't even get Griffin to agree to our timeline. Pathetic |
Not all the leverage they had to make this trade NOW! If you let Griffin trade AD to another team, that's another year that you loose on LBJ, and the window of the two stars together is shorter. People are totally wrong on this, it was of the utmost importance to get this deal now. The pressure was on the Lakers from Klutch Sports, Lebron and from the fact that they have not made the playoffs in 6 years. So this idea of the Lakers having the leverage is wrong, they made the best deal possible. Like I said Lonzo, BI and Hart are good but they all have health issues. It's possible BI may not ever play again, and we know Lonzo is a sprain away from missing half of the season. Hart has knee problems, and if the Lakers win 50 games or more most of those picks are useless. I'd rather keep my second round picks which I can use without much cost, and possibly grab a diamond in the rough. The way I look at it is that it was a fair deal for both sides with risks on both sides. |
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KeepItRealOrElse
Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | epak wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | epak wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | epak wrote: | We dont believe you Arye
| Quote: | Arye Abraham
@arye_abraham
An account of what truly unfolded during the Lakers/Pels trade negotiations and the trade completion date disagreement: During negotiations, Pelinka asked to have the 7/30 completion date. Griffin asked for a large sweetener. Pelinka replied that he’d rather (1/2) |
| Quote: | Arye Abraham
@arye_abraham
scan the market and pay less w/ a 3rd team involved. Now, Griffin would still agree to 7/30 but would still want the sweetener. This is why LAL agreed to a deal with the 7/6 completion date. Their backup plan is to delay to 7/30 and pay a sweetener to Griffin, sources say. (2/2) |
Bye Kuz if it means hello Kawhi is OK with me. |
more sweetener huh.
lmfao. |
Does it shock you? Rob is weird like that. |
it's true mans he negotiated this joint alone and messed it up |
Once most of the info comes out after the deals, I'll join you in dogging Rob if the team doesn't look good roster wise. |
info is out fam. he's a hack. he still got a chance to salvage this but the tab keeps getting longer on the pieces his inexperience is costing us |
Like I said, if our roster sucks, I will join you. |
I like JJ and Bonga... aint need to give them up |
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satria
Starting Rotation
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 526
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| satria wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Stumpy25 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Stumpy25 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Why tf would we need a sweetner? with all those picks and pick swaps Griffin should have agreed to any date we wanted to complete. No one could come close to topping our offer |
Because Griffin wants as much as he can get, and he tried to back the Lakers into a corner. I'd say dude I got what I wanted and I hope you become diabetic with all the sugar I gave you. I would have kept July 6 simply not to give Griffin any more. |
Rob got hustled by an elite GM. That's why. |
That's actually the opposite, he did not give in any longer and he got AD which is what he wanted. Gave them 3 good young players all with injury issues, and a bunch of worthless 1st round picks in late 20's. If the date change caused me to give up Kuzma as an example I'd say no, I'll figure another way to get money without giving you anything more. |
No, he got absolutely played by Griffin. We had all the leverage yet Rob still couldn't even get Griffin to agree to our timeline. Pathetic |
not if kL or Ki signs with LAL  |
Also Rob s job is to run to jeanie and the rambii s with what was presented to him by griffin, Rob doesn't have total control. the ultimate person/persons that signs off on the trade is jeanie and rambii , so they are to blame if it goes sour. btw if I remember correctly i read somewhere that Jim buss had 3 years to turn the ship around, maybe jeanie has the same time frame?
Rob cAnnot decline of accept Griffin s offer all he can do is bring it back to Jean/ram |
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Username
Star Player
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 4718
Location: Out There
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah I really don't understand this "we had all the leverage" stuff. The last 5 months we supposedly didn't have good enough assets to acquire AD. Now we not only "overpaid" for him, but also had all the leverage?  |
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epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: |
I like JJ and Bonga... aint need to give them up |
Now it makes sense
I"m still holding out for Kawhi. I'm a dreamer. |
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Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Username wrote: | | Yeah I really don't understand this "we had all the leverage" stuff. The last 5 months we supposedly didn't have good enough assets to acquire AD. Now we not only "overpaid" for him, but also had all the leverage? |
If your star player and his agency demands you get the trade done... it effectively neutralizes any leverage you might have.
I'm not saying this happened for sure... but either Rob drives a poor bargain or he had to get this done. |
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Username
Star Player
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 4718
Location: Out There
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | Username wrote: | | Yeah I really don't understand this "we had all the leverage" stuff. The last 5 months we supposedly didn't have good enough assets to acquire AD. Now we not only "overpaid" for him, but also had all the leverage? |
If your star player and his agency demands you get the trade done... it effectively neutralizes any leverage you might have.
I'm not saying this happened for sure... but either Rob drives a poor bargain or he had to get this done. |
Sure, but if the trade didn't get made, AD would have certainly not been the first player to demand a trade to the Lakers and not actually get traded to the Lakers. We've seen it each of the last two years. |
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Bard207
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 7713
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | Stumpy25 wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | Anyone notice Larry Coon hasn't posted here on LG at all to confirm or dispel the supposed rumor that the Lakers made the Deal for AD without a capologist going over the numbers properly?
I say Lary Coon is busy being one of the Lakers said "capologists" and that's why he can't post here.
That also means that the media has it wrong, cause Larry wouldn't mess up like that .
Just my two cents... |
I thought someone claimed he had posted on Twitter about it and posted one of his tweets this week claiming the Lakers could not afford him. I am sure he was joking, but that likely suggests he is not involved. |
Larry Coon Twitter (June 16)
Thomas Browne
| Quote: |
Thomas Browne
@VirtueNotVice
@LarryCoon LC, would you consider working for the Lakers as
a "Cap Consultant"?
🤘🏼😎🤘🏼
|
Larry Coon
| Quote: |
Rob can't afford me.right now
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|
What can I say,
the man goes straight for the punchline.
EJ - I only wish the Lakers would come and sweep him off his feet... |
Larry Coon is not the only capologist in the NBA, I'm sure there's a lot of guys and according to Ramona the Lakers do have someone. |
Bard identified him earlier today.
Forgot his name already. |
I would classify as capologists the people that have gotten multiple mentions in the back of the CBA FAQ.
| Quote: |
Revision History:
There were 41 revisions to the first version of this FAQ (covering the 1999 CBA), which have been consolidated into the 11/16/2005 item here. There were 23 revisions to the second version of this FAQ (covering the 2005 CBA), which have been consolidated into the 10/23/2011 item here. There were 16 revisions to the third version of this FAQ (covering the 2011 CBA), which have been consolidated into the 12/24/2016 item here.
8/30/1999 Initial release.
11/16/2005 Final revision covering the 1999 CBA. Thanks Patricia Bender, Robert Bradley, Steve Durrett, Tony Farr, Jon Hamm, Ron Haneberg, Ryan Hoak, Frank Hughes, Leon Jackson, Don Jones, Leaf, David Lord, Wes McDaniel, Dan Rosenbaum, Andy Stein, Ralph Wallace and Kevin Wilcutts for your contributions.
10/23/2011 Final revision covering the 2005 CBA. Thanks Patricia Bender, Robert Bradley, Gabe Feldman, Ryan Hoak, Dan Hoelzl, Zev Iosupovici, David Lord, Albert Nahmad, Eric Pincus, Dan Rosenbaum, Nick Silva, Andy Stein & Marc Stein for your contributions.
12/24/2016 Final revision covering the 2011 CBA. Thanks Josh Berman, Edward Gleason, Brett Greenberg, Ryan Hoak, Zev Iosupovici, Bernie Lee, David Lord, Albert Nahmad, Clint Peterson, Eric Pincus, Zach Schreiber, Nick Silva, Andy Stein.
6/30/2017 Extensive revision for the 2017 CBA. Thanks Nate Duncan, Ryan Hoak, David Lord, Kevin Pelton, Eric Pincus, Nick Silva.
7/1/2018 Updated questions 12, 14, 15, 16, 18, 19, 20, 22, 23, 25, 31, 98 with numbers for the 2018-19 season. Revised questions 84, 123.
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There are some others out there that are good, but aren't mentioned in the above credits.
**********
Marshall Rader is the guy working in the LAL FO
Salary Cap & CBA Analyst of the Los Angeles Lakers since 2018-2019 (Hired).
Basketball Operations Administrative Assistant of the San Antonio Spurs from 2015-2016 (Hired) to 2017-2018.
Basketball Operations Intern of the Indiana Pacers from 2014-2015 (Hired) to 2014-2015 (Resigned).
Basketball Operations Intern of the San Antonio Spurs from 2013-2014 (Hired) to 2013-2014 (Resigned).
Last edited by Bard207 on Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:20 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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LakerMindLA
Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 5344
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Username wrote: | | LakerMindLA wrote: | | Username wrote: | | LakerMindLA wrote: | | Username wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | Username wrote: | The Pelicans own the No. 4 inasmuch as Anthony Davis is a member of the Lakers. Which is to say - they do, and he is.
Based on the framework of the agreed upon trade, the Lakers are operating like a team that has absorbed Anthony Davis into its cap and maneuvering space around him. Just like the Pelicans are shopping a pick that belongs to them based on the framework of an agreed upon trade.
The Pelicans don’t have any say in what we do once we acquire Anthony Davis. Just like the Lakers don’t have any say on restricting a draft pick that we are trading away. If we wanted to control the outcome of the pick, we should have kept it. Once we agreed to trade it, we lose that right.
And just LOL @ “they can always tell the T-Wolves..” sure, they can ask, but that severely limits their ability to trade an asset that now belongs to them because what incentive does a third party have to agree to restrictions on a draft pick that solely benefits the Lakers? That’s not to say they couldn’t be talked into it, but until proven otherwise I don’t believe strictly enforcing that in a trade agreement is allowed within the CBA, no matter how badly you want it to be. |
Are you saying that it is your position that there was no way to do this deal where we insured we would have max cap space to sign a FA? That Pelinka had no options to make sure that was part of the agreement? |
I wouldn't say it's my position, but it's a question that I haven't seen answered.
Can we trade a draft pick, but still control the fate of that pick in terms of when that player will be available for whatever team he goes to? Can Minnesota trade for the 4 pick, but not be able to have (insert rookie here) in Summer League because they have to abide by a trade agreement to benefit the Lakers?
The answer to me seems to be no, and I can't recall it ever happening in the NBA, but I am open to being proven wrong on this. |
What you're arguing here is about value of the #4, not about ownership and rights.
The #4 pick has the most value to the Pelicans without any restrictions on it. The Twolves or any other team would be willing to pay more in a trade to have the #4 pick ASAP.
The #4 pick has less value with restrictions on it because the Pelicans would need to find a team would be wiling to work within those restrictions (No summer league). It doesn't mean they couldn't, it just makes it harder.
The Lakers have just entered into an agreement to trade a pick in the future (July 6th or 30th). There is nothing stopping the Pelicans from agreeing to a trade in the future with the Twolves for the #4 pick today. It might impact the return on the trade, but if that was part of the deal with the Lakers, the Pelicans would have to shop that pick with the known restrictions about timing.
And Minnesota wouldn't be abiding by a trade to benefit the Lakers, Pelicans would be trading based on when they have ownership of the pick. Minnesota would then have to decide what they would be willing to give up knowing of the delay until the 30th. |
It’s about value for the owner of the asset.
The Pelicans traded a valuable asset for valuable assets.
Why should they, or other teams who trade for the #4 pick, not be allowed to get the most value for the asset they are acquiring?
You’re looking at this as a Lakers fan, and missing the big picture. |
No, I am looking at this from a POV that the value of the #4 pick to the Pelicans can go up and down depending on the timing of the trade and that this should have been part of the negotiation within the larger overall trade package for AD.
The Pelicans would then be free to do whatever they please with the #4 pick within the restrictions they negotiated with the Lakers. Again, the key is the Pelican's negotiated around the restrictions since it impacts value. |
Why on earth would they agree to a restriction that depreciates the value of the asset they are acquiring?
And again, that doesn't answer the question of what are we LEGALLY ALLOWED to do. You keep saying we should have done this, and should have done that, but I've yet to see evidence of any trade in NBA history that was conducted with an iron-clad stipulation agreed to by the two teams that the trade, and all the assets attached to it, are frozen until a certain date. |
It is called a negotiation for a reason. If Lakers were only willing to trade the #4 with a restriction on it the Pelicans could have asked for something back in the trade.
They wouldn't just agree to decreasing the value without getting something back in return. At the same time, the Lakers could have asked for something back to trade the #4 pick without restrictions.
The date part is semantics. To be legal within the CBA, the trade as constructed right now can't be completed until the Lakers renounce their FAs. There is nothing stopping the Lakers from telling the Pelicans they won't renounce their FAs and want this trade completed as an over the cap team.
It then goes back to the 1st part, you negotiate the different pieces of the trade knowing the timing. |
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Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Username wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | Username wrote: | | Yeah I really don't understand this "we had all the leverage" stuff. The last 5 months we supposedly didn't have good enough assets to acquire AD. Now we not only "overpaid" for him, but also had all the leverage? |
If your star player and his agency demands you get the trade done... it effectively neutralizes any leverage you might have.
I'm not saying this happened for sure... but either Rob drives a poor bargain or he had to get this done. |
Sure, but if the trade didn't get made, AD would have certainly not been the first player to demand a trade to the Lakers and not actually get traded to the Lakers. We've seen it each of the last two years. |
We had control of his destination through his agent.
Bottom line LBJ is the boss and he wanted him now.
This was done for LBJ's window and Rob had no choice.
I think Griffin knew this and gently rode it as far as he could.
This extra sweetener is the last phase of a very painful overpay.
Maybe Rob divvied it up into two parts so the press wouldn't be so negative had he released all the assets in one fell swoop.
If we get Kyrie or Kawhi... I can still kind of understand it.
If we only sign 8 million dollar type players... I don't think I ever will. |
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Username
Star Player
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 4718
Location: Out There
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerMindLA wrote: |
It is called a negotiation for a reason. If Lakers were only willing to trade the #4 with a restriction on it the Pelicans could have asked for something back in the trade.
They wouldn't just agree to decreasing the value without getting something back in return. At the same time, the Lakers could have asked for something back to trade the #4 pick without restrictions. |
You are still working under this fantasy land assumption that you can legally attach restrictions to a draft pick, which is a fluid asset that could be traded elsewhere. As far as I'm aware, that's never before happened in the history of the NBA. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Just because you want it to be possible, doesn't mean it's actually possible.
| Quote: | The date part is semantics. To be legal within the CBA, the trade as constructed right now can't be completed until the Lakers renounce their FAs. There is nothing stopping the Lakers from telling the Pelicans they won't renounce their FAs and want this trade completed as an over the cap team.
It then goes back to the 1st part, you negotiate the different pieces of the trade knowing the timing. |
There is nothing stopping any number of a half-dozen different things from happening before this trade call is made, whether it's on July 6 or July 30, which is why I'm puzzled that you're so doom-and-gloom about it for no reason. |
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Bard207
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 7713
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | We dont believe you Arye
| Quote: | Arye Abraham
@arye_abraham
An account of what truly unfolded during the Lakers/Pels trade negotiations and the trade completion date disagreement: During negotiations, Pelinka asked to have the 7/30 completion date. Griffin asked for a large sweetener. Pelinka replied that he’d rather (1/2) |
| Quote: | Arye Abraham
@arye_abraham
scan the market and pay less w/ a 3rd team involved. Now, Griffin would still agree to 7/30 but would still want the sweetener. This is why LAL agreed to a deal with the 7/6 completion date. Their backup plan is to delay to 7/30 and pay a sweetener to Griffin, sources say. (2/2) |
Bye Kuz if it means hello Kawhi is OK with me. |
If that is true about New Orleans refusing to cooperate to delay for 30 days without sweetener/incentive, then Pelinka should have put the negotiations on hold before the announcement and reconfigured the trade with J Jones, Wagner and Bonga.
Maybe they wouldn't have been able to announce a deal until Sunday - Monday, but at least it would have portrayed Pelinka as being a sharp negotiator. Trying to patch the deal after the announcement gives the impression of having lost the initial round of negotiations. |
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Username
Star Player
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 4718
Location: Out There
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | Username wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | Username wrote: | | Yeah I really don't understand this "we had all the leverage" stuff. The last 5 months we supposedly didn't have good enough assets to acquire AD. Now we not only "overpaid" for him, but also had all the leverage? |
If your star player and his agency demands you get the trade done... it effectively neutralizes any leverage you might have.
I'm not saying this happened for sure... but either Rob drives a poor bargain or he had to get this done. |
Sure, but if the trade didn't get made, AD would have certainly not been the first player to demand a trade to the Lakers and not actually get traded to the Lakers. We've seen it each of the last two years. |
We had control of his destination through his agent.
Bottom line LBJ is the boss and he wanted him now.
This was done for LBJ's window and Rob had no choice.
I think Griffin knew this and gently rode it as far as he could.
This extra sweetener is the last phase of a very painful overpay.
Maybe Rob divvied it up into two parts so the press wouldn't be so negative had he released all the assets in one fell swoop.
If we get Kyrie or Kawhi... I can still kind of understand it.
If we only sign 8 million dollar type players... I don't think I ever will. |
Soooo what you're saying is, we didn't have all the leverage... I agree. |
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BigBallerBrand
Star Player
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 5802
Location: LA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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How the (bleep) have mods not banned anyone quoting that Arye idiot
_________________
Billions Billions Billions |
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Laker's Fan
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12861
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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Everyone assumes that Griff will have pretext to pull out of the deal if Pelinka demands it be delayed. There would only be a violation of principle, not an actual contract. The real question is, why the hell would Griff pull out over that? Once Kyrie is on another team is Boston coming in with a competitive deal? What is our risk?
It’s a game of chicken and Pelinka is on thin ice. So he folds.
I don’t blame him though. This is on crappy ownership. |
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| BigBallerBrand wrote: | | How the (bleep) have mods not banned anyone quoting that Arye idiot |
Ban yourself, Lavar |
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