The beginning of the Gleague season was difficult to get a read. Forced too many bad shots and selfish. I also noticed this in his college games although I wasn't focusing in on him (i.e. Haliburton). However he flashed so much skill (handles, body control) I just wanted to wait before commenting. When both Jackson and Stockton went down he became more of a distributor and again flashed passing skills I had no idea he possessed.
This past 5-10 games it seems the game has really slowed down for him and damn he looks really good. Still gets tunnel vision with the ball in his hands but I would be hard pressed to move him. Ever if it came down to Kuzma or THT I am leaning on keeping THT.
Having both SBay PG's go down may have been a blessing for THT's development as he now controls the ball a significant amount of time and is allowed the opportunity to develop his game further than I thought possible this early in his career. This is similar to how I see both LaMelo and Lonzo's game was allowed to develop.
KIROE you still like Caboclo? I have been thinking about him and agree with your thoughts about acquiring him for his wing defense.
yea his PG chops impressed me a lot in one of the games I watched.. do you think he should be developed as a PG? or at least a split-duties guard in a lineup with a Caruso?
his athleticism confuses me a bit; but this is low center of gravity is a boon
a lot of flashes as a pick pocket on defense too
yea I'd still take Bruno for sure..despite down 3pt % numbers.. G league the last few years and last NBA season he shot the 3 well.. do i trust it completely no, but i trust he can at least hit like 33% if not more. his defense, I still believe can be impactful here and there ya...
I believe he could run PG for short periods of time or run tandem with Caruso like you mentioned. That could develop into a nice defensive backcourt. Just for comparison I feel Melton is more of a PG than THT. He needs a solid summer working with trainers for sure to tighten his body.
That's how I feel about Caboclo. If he could provide 15-18 minutes of solid defense any offense would be a bonus.
Ya Melton plays the PG role better than Caruso and THT - better than THT simply cuz he seems to be looking to pass first this year.. And better than Caruso because he's smaller and can get into crevices in the P&R, and beat his defender more naturally...all 3 do or will suffer from the typical awkwardness that converted PGs suffer from - they get stuck in awkward spots, picking up their dribble in the P&R, that stuff.... so without quickness as a tool, idk how THT will avoid those mistakes.. I know smart fans who think THT should stay as a lead ball handler though...
And Bruno also is versatile defensively... you could throw him out there at Center and he wouldn't object...if he's shooting well for a stretch and has gravity.. if the Center is like Capela size, he could fair decently and space the floor for AD. although AD should matchup w Capela without objection anyway.
I would say THT has the best vision of the 3.
THT can be a 3 level scorer which will be how he creates for others - again similar to Doncic. Will he ever reach that level, probably not, but that is his archetype IMO.
The beginning of the Gleague season was difficult to get a read. Forced too many bad shots and selfish. I also noticed this in his college games although I wasn't focusing in on him (i.e. Haliburton). However he flashed so much skill (handles, body control) I just wanted to wait before commenting. When both Jackson and Stockton went down he became more of a distributor and again flashed passing skills I had no idea he possessed.
This past 5-10 games it seems the game has really slowed down for him and damn he looks really good. Still gets tunnel vision with the ball in his hands but I would be hard pressed to move him. Ever if it came down to Kuzma or THT I am leaning on keeping THT.
Having both SBay PG's go down may have been a blessing for THT's development as he now controls the ball a significant amount of time and is allowed the opportunity to develop his game further than I thought possible this early in his career. This is similar to how I see both LaMelo and Lonzo's game was allowed to develop.
KIROE you still like Caboclo? I have been thinking about him and agree with your thoughts about acquiring him for his wing defense.
yea his PG chops impressed me a lot in one of the games I watched.. do you think he should be developed as a PG? or at least a split-duties guard in a lineup with a Caruso?
his athleticism confuses me a bit; but this is low center of gravity is a boon
a lot of flashes as a pick pocket on defense too
yea I'd still take Bruno for sure..despite down 3pt % numbers.. G league the last few years and last NBA season he shot the 3 well.. do i trust it completely no, but i trust he can at least hit like 33% if not more. his defense, I still believe can be impactful here and there ya...
I believe he could run PG for short periods of time or run tandem with Caruso like you mentioned. That could develop into a nice defensive backcourt. Just for comparison I feel Melton is more of a PG than THT. He needs a solid summer working with trainers for sure to tighten his body.
That's how I feel about Caboclo. If he could provide 15-18 minutes of solid defense any offense would be a bonus.
Ya Melton plays the PG role better than Caruso and THT - better than THT simply cuz he seems to be looking to pass first this year.. And better than Caruso because he's smaller and can get into crevices in the P&R, and beat his defender more naturally...all 3 do or will suffer from the typical awkwardness that converted PGs suffer from - they get stuck in awkward spots, picking up their dribble in the P&R, that stuff.... so without quickness as a tool, idk how THT will avoid those mistakes.. I know smart fans who think THT should stay as a lead ball handler though...
And Bruno also is versatile defensively... you could throw him out there at Center and he wouldn't object...if he's shooting well for a stretch and has gravity.. if the Center is like Capela size, he could fair decently and space the floor for AD. although AD should matchup w Capela without objection anyway.
I would say THT has the best vision of the 3.
THT can be a 3 level scorer which will be how he creates for others - again similar to Doncic. Will he ever reach that level, probably not, but that is his archetype IMO.
he does see over the top of defenses well and make those passes - solid height at 6'4 and his long arms let him make passes from all angles. From his best passing game I've seen, and his best passes in general, I do agree on the Doncic-lite element.
The beginning of the Gleague season was difficult to get a read. Forced too many bad shots and selfish. I also noticed this in his college games although I wasn't focusing in on him (i.e. Haliburton). However he flashed so much skill (handles, body control) I just wanted to wait before commenting. When both Jackson and Stockton went down he became more of a distributor and again flashed passing skills I had no idea he possessed.
This past 5-10 games it seems the game has really slowed down for him and damn he looks really good. Still gets tunnel vision with the ball in his hands but I would be hard pressed to move him. Ever if it came down to Kuzma or THT I am leaning on keeping THT.
Having both SBay PG's go down may have been a blessing for THT's development as he now controls the ball a significant amount of time and is allowed the opportunity to develop his game further than I thought possible this early in his career. This is similar to how I see both LaMelo and Lonzo's game was allowed to develop.
KIROE you still like Caboclo? I have been thinking about him and agree with your thoughts about acquiring him for his wing defense.
yea his PG chops impressed me a lot in one of the games I watched.. do you think he should be developed as a PG? or at least a split-duties guard in a lineup with a Caruso?
his athleticism confuses me a bit; but this is low center of gravity is a boon
a lot of flashes as a pick pocket on defense too
yea I'd still take Bruno for sure..despite down 3pt % numbers.. G league the last few years and last NBA season he shot the 3 well.. do i trust it completely no, but i trust he can at least hit like 33% if not more. his defense, I still believe can be impactful here and there ya...
I believe he could run PG for short periods of time or run tandem with Caruso like you mentioned. That could develop into a nice defensive backcourt. Just for comparison I feel Melton is more of a PG than THT. He needs a solid summer working with trainers for sure to tighten his body.
That's how I feel about Caboclo. If he could provide 15-18 minutes of solid defense any offense would be a bonus.
Ya Melton plays the PG role better than Caruso and THT - better than THT simply cuz he seems to be looking to pass first this year.. And better than Caruso because he's smaller and can get into crevices in the P&R, and beat his defender more naturally...all 3 do or will suffer from the typical awkwardness that converted PGs suffer from - they get stuck in awkward spots, picking up their dribble in the P&R, that stuff.... so without quickness as a tool, idk how THT will avoid those mistakes.. I know smart fans who think THT should stay as a lead ball handler though...
And Bruno also is versatile defensively... you could throw him out there at Center and he wouldn't object...if he's shooting well for a stretch and has gravity.. if the Center is like Capela size, he could fair decently and space the floor for AD. although AD should matchup w Capela without objection anyway.
I would say THT has the best vision of the 3.
THT can be a 3 level scorer which will be how he creates for others - again similar to Doncic. Will he ever reach that level, probably not, but that is his archetype IMO.
he does see over the top of defenses well and make those passes - solid height at 6'4 and his long arms let him make passes from all angles. From his best passing game I've seen, and his best passes in general, I do agree on the Doncic-lite element.
For him to be a star, he has to master the high pick and roll.
What gives him the chance is his wingspan and unique body. Will PGs bounce off him if he can play at 240.
The beginning of the Gleague season was difficult to get a read. Forced too many bad shots and selfish. I also noticed this in his college games although I wasn't focusing in on him (i.e. Haliburton). However he flashed so much skill (handles, body control) I just wanted to wait before commenting. When both Jackson and Stockton went down he became more of a distributor and again flashed passing skills I had no idea he possessed.
This past 5-10 games it seems the game has really slowed down for him and damn he looks really good. Still gets tunnel vision with the ball in his hands but I would be hard pressed to move him. Ever if it came down to Kuzma or THT I am leaning on keeping THT.
Having both SBay PG's go down may have been a blessing for THT's development as he now controls the ball a significant amount of time and is allowed the opportunity to develop his game further than I thought possible this early in his career. This is similar to how I see both LaMelo and Lonzo's game was allowed to develop.
KIROE you still like Caboclo? I have been thinking about him and agree with your thoughts about acquiring him for his wing defense.
yea his PG chops impressed me a lot in one of the games I watched.. do you think he should be developed as a PG? or at least a split-duties guard in a lineup with a Caruso?
his athleticism confuses me a bit; but this is low center of gravity is a boon
a lot of flashes as a pick pocket on defense too
yea I'd still take Bruno for sure..despite down 3pt % numbers.. G league the last few years and last NBA season he shot the 3 well.. do i trust it completely no, but i trust he can at least hit like 33% if not more. his defense, I still believe can be impactful here and there ya...
I believe he could run PG for short periods of time or run tandem with Caruso like you mentioned. That could develop into a nice defensive backcourt. Just for comparison I feel Melton is more of a PG than THT. He needs a solid summer working with trainers for sure to tighten his body.
That's how I feel about Caboclo. If he could provide 15-18 minutes of solid defense any offense would be a bonus.
Ya Melton plays the PG role better than Caruso and THT - better than THT simply cuz he seems to be looking to pass first this year.. And better than Caruso because he's smaller and can get into crevices in the P&R, and beat his defender more naturally...all 3 do or will suffer from the typical awkwardness that converted PGs suffer from - they get stuck in awkward spots, picking up their dribble in the P&R, that stuff.... so without quickness as a tool, idk how THT will avoid those mistakes.. I know smart fans who think THT should stay as a lead ball handler though...
And Bruno also is versatile defensively... you could throw him out there at Center and he wouldn't object...if he's shooting well for a stretch and has gravity.. if the Center is like Capela size, he could fair decently and space the floor for AD. although AD should matchup w Capela without objection anyway.
I would say THT has the best vision of the 3.
THT can be a 3 level scorer which will be how he creates for others - again similar to Doncic. Will he ever reach that level, probably not, but that is his archetype IMO.
Melton is a capable passer on the move with the ball. Shows vision and the right passing angles. Don't recall seeing THT doing that. THT does pass well when stationary or slowly probing the defense.
The beginning of the Gleague season was difficult to get a read. Forced too many bad shots and selfish. I also noticed this in his college games although I wasn't focusing in on him (i.e. Haliburton). However he flashed so much skill (handles, body control) I just wanted to wait before commenting. When both Jackson and Stockton went down he became more of a distributor and again flashed passing skills I had no idea he possessed.
This past 5-10 games it seems the game has really slowed down for him and damn he looks really good. Still gets tunnel vision with the ball in his hands but I would be hard pressed to move him. Ever if it came down to Kuzma or THT I am leaning on keeping THT.
Having both SBay PG's go down may have been a blessing for THT's development as he now controls the ball a significant amount of time and is allowed the opportunity to develop his game further than I thought possible this early in his career. This is similar to how I see both LaMelo and Lonzo's game was allowed to develop.
KIROE you still like Caboclo? I have been thinking about him and agree with your thoughts about acquiring him for his wing defense.
yea his PG chops impressed me a lot in one of the games I watched.. do you think he should be developed as a PG? or at least a split-duties guard in a lineup with a Caruso?
his athleticism confuses me a bit; but this is low center of gravity is a boon
a lot of flashes as a pick pocket on defense too
yea I'd still take Bruno for sure..despite down 3pt % numbers.. G league the last few years and last NBA season he shot the 3 well.. do i trust it completely no, but i trust he can at least hit like 33% if not more. his defense, I still believe can be impactful here and there ya...
I believe he could run PG for short periods of time or run tandem with Caruso like you mentioned. That could develop into a nice defensive backcourt. Just for comparison I feel Melton is more of a PG than THT. He needs a solid summer working with trainers for sure to tighten his body.
That's how I feel about Caboclo. If he could provide 15-18 minutes of solid defense any offense would be a bonus.
Ya Melton plays the PG role better than Caruso and THT - better than THT simply cuz he seems to be looking to pass first this year.. And better than Caruso because he's smaller and can get into crevices in the P&R, and beat his defender more naturally...all 3 do or will suffer from the typical awkwardness that converted PGs suffer from - they get stuck in awkward spots, picking up their dribble in the P&R, that stuff.... so without quickness as a tool, idk how THT will avoid those mistakes.. I know smart fans who think THT should stay as a lead ball handler though...
And Bruno also is versatile defensively... you could throw him out there at Center and he wouldn't object...if he's shooting well for a stretch and has gravity.. if the Center is like Capela size, he could fair decently and space the floor for AD. although AD should matchup w Capela without objection anyway.
I would say THT has the best vision of the 3.
THT can be a 3 level scorer which will be how he creates for others - again similar to Doncic. Will he ever reach that level, probably not, but that is his archetype IMO.
he does see over the top of defenses well and make those passes - solid height at 6'4 and his long arms let him make passes from all angles. From his best passing game I've seen, and his best passes in general, I do agree on the Doncic-lite element.
For him to be a star, he has to master the high pick and roll.
What gives him the chance is his wingspan and unique body. Will PGs bounce off him if he can play at 240.
For him to be a star he has to be a near D’angelo Russell level shooter.. and have a great floater. Cuz I don’t believe in his athleticism making him an above average finisher at the rim or putting above average pressure on the rim... he’s got a methodical game kinda like DLo (but yes more attacking) , needs a shot in DLo’s ballpark to be a star.
For him to be a star he has to be a near D’angelo Russell level shooter.. and have a great floater. Cuz I don’t believe in his athleticism making him an above average finisher at the rim or putting above average pressure on the rim... he’s got a methodical game kinda like DLo (but yes more attacking) , needs a shot in DLo’s ballpark to be a star.
Agreed, though I’d say that any modern NBA primary creator under 6’6” has to be a near knock-down shooter to be a star. The only player that isn’t is Westbrook.
THT is just so unique if he can play PG as a primary creator. He has a standing reach of a SF and his wingspan is outrageous. The only PG that has similar measurements is SGA and I actually wasn’t that high on SGA out of Kentucky because I doubted his athleticism and pace but you can’t teach a 8’8” standing reach.
For him to be a star he has to be a near D’angelo Russell level shooter.. and have a great floater. Cuz I don’t believe in his athleticism making him an above average finisher at the rim or putting above average pressure on the rim... he’s got a methodical game kinda like DLo (but yes more attacking) , needs a shot in DLo’s ballpark to be a star.
Agreed, though I’d say that any modern NBA primary creator under 6’6” has to be a near knock-down shooter to be a star. The only player that isn’t is Westbrook.
THT is just so unique if he can play PG as a primary creator. He has a standing reach of a SF and his wingspan is outrageous. The only PG that has similar measurements is SGA and I actually wasn’t that high on SGA out of Kentucky because I doubted his athleticism and pace but you can’t teach a 8’8” standing reach.
That’s exactly why I doubted SGA too..combined w no 3ball.
And SGA is one of the guys THT should look at to take some things from his game..he and Donavan Mitchell. THT is right in their ballpark of pure off the dribble skill.
I see THT being more of a 6’4 Lamar Odom, than a lead guard star.
I even look at Joe Ingles success playmaking in the P&R, at his pace, being a decent model for THT...on the other end of the spectrum, I don’t think it’s wild to even try for see some current CP3 in his game - They both are so crafty with the ball in the midrange area, keeping defenders somehow at bay while doing great dribble moves to advance - D’angelo is very predictable in how he keeps defenders at bay in that area , right on his back for a floater...while THT and Cp3 do more creative moves in that area and can advance or pull any shot
Okay, to please those in the 'keep THT' brigade, here's a deal that could probably net us Rose and Morris. Don't know if we're giving up too much but
Detroit get Kyle Kuzma (Lakers) and Denzel Valentine (Bulls)
Lakers get Derrick Rose and Markieff Morris (both Pistons)
Bulls get Avery Bradley (Lakers), 2021 2nd (Pistons), 2023 2nd (Lakers)
Detroit gets two young pieces that fit pretty easily into their rotation (dependent on them trading Galloway, which they will), who will still be on their rookie contracts until June 2021. Lakers get an elite bench creative scorer and distributor whilst also getting someone that fits into the hole Kuzma leaves with ease. Bulls get a player that fits in their rotation but won't hurt their tank, whilst getting a couple of 2nds for Valentine.
Waive Daniels, sign Collison, and you're golden _________________ #18 next...
Remember when you could trade players to another team, their new team could cut them, then the old team could resign him? That could be seen as unethical but it was done up until the NBA created an explicit rule against it.
Remember when you could resign a player who was more or less unofficially retired just to match salaries in a trade? The Lakers, I believe, did this Aaron McKim in the infamous Pau Gasol trade. That was definitely manipulating and gaming the system, but there wasn't a peep.
My point is that until there are explicit rules against certain practices, execs take creative license with the rules all of the time ... as they should. Winning execs are ALWAYS looking for loopholes and cracks in the cement.
Memphis is perfectly within the rules to buy out Iguodala one week then accept Horton-Tucker, 4 million cash, Cook, and Daniels for Josh Jackson the following week.
It's all above board until they create a rule against it.
In your first example the NBA put a stop to it as they obviously saw this as a problem.
I don't see an issue with the second example as it has no effect on the GM's reputation.
My point is if this favor is done for the Lakers or any team for that matter then the Memphis GM will tarnish his reputation and put himself and byproduct his team in a position where other GM's may become leery of working with him.
Once animosity is created between teams/GM's then you put yourself and again your team at a disadvantage in the future. I don't believe any GM would put themself in this position which could possibly jeopardize his job.
Maybe you have better memory than I do but I cannot recall any transaction of this type happening and I will leave it at that.
One item I do want to bring up is you have advocated when proposing trades to think in fairness to the other teams rotation/roster. In this same respect when you propose a multi player for 1 trade you need to consider in fairness who will the other team need to cut to complete this trade. For Memphis that would be a tough call especially if it is 3 to 1.
I actually misrepresented the trade proposal. It's not Horton-Tucker, 4 million cash, Cook, and Daniels for Jackson and an Iguodala buyout promise, it's Horton-Tucker, 4 million cash, and McGee or Cousins for Jackson and Iguodala (buyout promise).
Obviously, McGee can only be traded with permission. After a few weeks out of the rotation, which I am proposing, he may be amenable to that. Why would McGee all of sudden go from starter to out of the rotation? Because the first move I make is the Kuzma/Cook/Daniels for Rose/Morris trade, and after this trade I have McGee out of the rotation:
PG - James - Rose - Rondo
SG - Bradley - Caruso - Horton-Tucker
C - Howard - Morris - McGee
PF - Davis - Dudley - (Cousins)
SF - Green - Pope -
If McGee refuses to agree to be traded to the Grizzlies, I send Cousins instead and hope that Memphis waives him so I can bring him back as a special assistant/consultant to stay around the team and continue his rehab.
My next move near the deadline is signing Collison and an already bought out Iguodala (as per the forthcoming deal) followed up by the actual trade in question (Horton-Tucker, 4 million cash, and Cousins for Josh Jackson).
These moves set the roster for a championship run:
PG - Collison - Rose - Rondo
SG - Green - Bradley - Caruso
C - Howard - Morris - Cousins
PF - Davis - Iguodala - Dudley
SF - James - Pope - Jackson
Now that I've established the proper order of operations, I can address your points. Memphis would not have to cut or waive anyone. Iguodala would be bought out in the lead up to the actual trade opening up a roster spot for the Grizzlies to absorb Horton-Tucker and Cousins.
Now, your main concerns: I do not see this as a favor for the Lakers. Memphis would be motivated purely by the idea that the Lakers are presenting them with the best trade "for Iguodala". I sincerely and objectively believe that no other team will beat an offer of Horton-Tucker and 4 million cash "for Iguodala". If that's the best offer for them, then they execute this trade not as a favor for the Lakers but as a favor for themselves. Not only do they get Horton-Tucker and a bag of cash, they also get the goodwill that comes from not being seen as the organization that hijacked an NBA vetearn out of sheer greed. Buying him out, instantly, among NBA players, gives the appearance that the Grizz are sympathetic and not dogmatic in how they deal with their players. A win for them all around.
So I don't pervieve this type of move as objectively being viewed as some back-bending favor for the Lakers at all. I look at it as, in my opinion, it should be viewed: Memphis taking the best "offer for Iguodala". Period.
I don't see any future negative ramifications bestowed upon the Grizzlies' front office. If anything, most GMs know that noone is offering very much for Iguodala, and they would not be surprised at all to see him reach the buyout market -- all above board. When the actual trade were to go down, the response around the league would be that Memphis creatively did the best they could do in a dry market for Iguodala. Any hate exuded from rival GMs is the same latent hate that was always there to begin with.
When you reexamine the trade within the context of it not being percieved as a favor for the Lakers but as a shrewd acquisition of an asset by Memphis, I think it severely takes the edge off the tarnishing of a reputation angle you are espousing.
Lastly, you're right. I'm pretty sure nothing of this sort has ever been done before, but maybe it has. Maybe it was done in such a way, by a less high-profile organization, that it simply flew under the radar.
But, make no mistake, just because it may have never been done, doesn't mean it's not to be done (reference some of Daryl Morey's more creative cap machinations).
I'll let you research Morey's past cap manipulations while I brush up on the legalities of collusion. _________________ A creative scorer, a wing defender, and a shooter.
Okay, to please those in the 'keep THT' brigade, here's a deal that could probably net us Rose and Morris. Don't know if we're giving up too much but
Detroit get Kyle Kuzma (Lakers) and Denzel Valentine (Bulls)
Lakers get Derrick Rose and Markieff Morris (both Pistons)
Bulls get Avery Bradley (Lakers), 2021 2nd (Pistons), 2023 2nd (Lakers)
Detroit gets two young pieces that fit pretty easily into their rotation (dependent on them trading Galloway, which they will), who will still be on their rookie contracts until June 2021. Lakers get an elite bench creative scorer and distributor whilst also getting someone that fits into the hole Kuzma leaves with ease. Bulls get a player that fits in their rotation but won't hurt their tank, whilst getting a couple of 2nds for Valentine.
Waive Daniels, sign Collison, and you're golden
Detroit would do this deal without the inclusion of Valentine (and Avery Bradley).
I don't see any objective reason why Detroit wouldn't simply accept Kuzma and filler for Rose and Morris. Kuzma, although not exactly a good fit when Griffin returns, represents the most young value they can get for two guys who are not even in their future. They are losing Morris in the offseason for nothing, and Rose takes the ball out of other guys' hands and wins them more games than they would like to win.
Cashing in with Kuzma, in a season where Griffin won't be returning, to play alongside a very versatile defender in Doumbouya is a tremendous win for Detroit.
If they somehow get a dynamic lead guard in the draft (Lamelo Ball) to pair with Kennard, Doumbouya, Kuzma, and some well-placed veterans who can teach their pups the ropes (it seems OKC-native Blake Griffin for Chris Paul would make sense for both parties), they would have the makings of something special.
There is no need for the Lakers to throw in Bradley to get Valentine to sweeten the pot for Detroit. It's sweet enough with just Kuzma. _________________ A creative scorer, a wing defender, and a shooter.
Okay, to please those in the 'keep THT' brigade, here's a deal that could probably net us Rose and Morris. Don't know if we're giving up too much but
Detroit get Kyle Kuzma (Lakers) and Denzel Valentine (Bulls)
Lakers get Derrick Rose and Markieff Morris (both Pistons)
Bulls get Avery Bradley (Lakers), 2021 2nd (Pistons), 2023 2nd (Lakers)
Detroit gets two young pieces that fit pretty easily into their rotation (dependent on them trading Galloway, which they will), who will still be on their rookie contracts until June 2021. Lakers get an elite bench creative scorer and distributor whilst also getting someone that fits into the hole Kuzma leaves with ease. Bulls get a player that fits in their rotation but won't hurt their tank, whilst getting a couple of 2nds for Valentine.
Waive Daniels, sign Collison, and you're golden
Detroit would do this deal without the inclusion of Valentine (and Avery Bradley).
I don't see any objective reason why Detroit wouldn't simply accept Kuzma and filler for Rose and Morris. Kuzma, although not exactly a good fit when Griffin returns, represents the most young value they can get for two guys who are not even in their future. They are losing Morris in the offseason for nothing, and Rose takes the ball out of other guys' hands and wins them more games than they would like to win.
Cashing in with Kuzma, in a season where Griffin won't be returning, to play alongside a very versatile defender in Doumbouya is a tremendous win for Detroit.
If they somehow get a dynamic lead guard in the draft (Lamelo Ball) to pair with Kennard, Doumbouya, Kuzma, and some well-placed veterans who can teach their pups the ropes (it seems OKC-native Blake Griffin for Chris Paul would make sense for both parties), they would have the makings of something special.
There is no need for the Lakers to throw in Bradley to get Valentine to sweeten the pot for Detroit. It's sweet enough with just Kuzma.
The problem is, if we want to get both Rose and Collison (which I think would be hugely important for us), we need to move Bradley on. Either him or Caruso would be out of the rotation in the event of getting both, and I think Bradley is the odd man out, being older, and not as good a 3pt shooter, playmaker and slasher. Of course, someone like Bradley would want to get consistent minutes for the team he's on, so it'd be best for both parties in that instance to move on from each other
I don't think Detroit would want to take Bradley back on again, so you'd need to find another way to move him. Not sure of the teams that would be the best fit, but I thought it could be another way to sweeten the deal more for Detroit by getting not one, but two good value pieces for Rose and Morris. But you could palm him off to any team, even by getting a lesser player and a pick for the future. Hope that makes sense.
For the record - if you're not getting Collison, moving Bradley is unimportant
EDIT: One more thing - that kind of trade allows us to keep Cook, which I think could be useful for chemistry reasons, seems very close to Bron and AD. Has proved recently that with minutes, he can really light it up with his shooting, too _________________ #18 next...
I completely understand your sentiment, alley, about Bradley becoming unnecessary, but, for a stretch title run where anything can happen, what's the harm in having massive guard depth.
Yes, Caruso would not play nightly in favor of Bradley in a new bench role, but why is that so bad?
You don't have to press to trade Bradley at all. This team would still need him even with Collison (and Rose) in tow.
Bradley would still get his minutes (coming off the bench) and Caruso would be a good soldier. The Lakers would have supreme guard depth in case of an injury -- a win all-around in my book.
Trading Bradley now would harm the spirit of this team as well.
The time to assess which member of the backcourt should be let go is in the offseason, not now, not in middle of a title run.
Depth is good, especially when guys like Caruso are humble enough to accept a reduced role. _________________ A creative scorer, a wing defender, and a shooter.
I completely understand your sentiment, alley, about Bradley becoming unnecessary, but, for a stretch title run where anything can happen, what's the harm in having massive guard depth.
Yes, Caruso would not play nightly in favor of Bradley in a new bench role, but why is that so bad?
You don't have to press to trade Bradley at all. This team would still need him even with Collison (and Rose) in tow.
Bradley would still get his minutes (coming off the bench) and Caruso would be a good soldier. The Lakers would have supreme guard depth in case of an injury -- a win all-around in my book.
Trading Bradley now would harm the spirit of this team as well.
The time to assess which member of the backcourt should be let go is in the offseason, not now, not in middle of a title run.
Depth is good, especially when guys like Caruso are humble enough to accept a reduced role.
Caruso's the kind of energy guy that has to have a bigger role than a 'good soldier' - he's proven he's worthy of consistent NBA minutes now, and is earning them big time with his solid all-round play. Also a fan favourite, which I know won't mean much to the coaches, but is someone that the Laker Nation probably consistently gets behind more than any one. Extremely important to have in the rotation, and trust me, he'll be the type that comes up big in the playoffs if given the opportunity, more so than Avery
Also, who says that trading Bradley will hurt the spirit of the team more than, saying, trading Cook? Quinn seems like a guy that everyone loves to be around from the footage I've seen, the team will probably be bummed about him being gone too. I'm not saying Bradley isn't a fun guy, but you could make the 'harm the spirit of the team' argument about anyone, including Kuzma. You know what does hurt team chemistry without doubt, though? Players in the locker room acting up because they know they aren't getting the minutes they deserve
In the case that we do Kuz/Cook/Daniels for Rose/Morris though - a 10 man rotation like this is great:
LeBron - Rose
Bradley - Caruso
Green - KCP
Davis - Morris
McGee - Howard
What I'd do in that case, however, is not sign Collison. He will not be needed, as we already have our three playmakers in LeBron (who will do the large part of the playmaking, on ball kind of stuff in the playoffs), Rose and Rondo. What you then need is a very solid depth shooter who can guard positions 1-3 to replace Cook/Daniels. Any of those guys that you could get on the buyout market? _________________ #18 next...
There's nothing wrong with depth though. Matter of fact, the only problem with depth are negative attitudes, and I just don't see that being the case with Bradley and Caruso.
This team is good because of depth. Say what you want about Cook and Daniels, but they are excellent end of bench guys, always ready to help make an impact.
With Collison and Rose added, Rondo and Caruso take Cook and Daniels place ... and that's great for now, as they prepare themselves for a title run.
Trust me, you'll be wishing you had kept Bradley if anything happens to Rose, Pope, or Collison.
Also, yes, Bradley, to me, is clearly a linchpin of this defense. He is a tone setter for the rest of the team. He brings a spirit that is not measurable and would be missed.
The Lakers need the depth, dude. For all we know, Collison could flame out. There are too many variables. Keep Bradley, have unquestionably elite guard depth in case of injury, win a title, and figure out the logjam in the summer. _________________ A creative scorer, a wing defender, and a shooter.
D Rose helps one side of the ball. That too if he is able to get the usage.
Kuzma can help the Lakers on the other side as well.
No other team in the league can give you these kind of looks up front
Howard-AD-Lebron
AD-Kuz-Lebron
McGee-AD-Lebron
We have 3 completely different lineups we can play - one with McGee inside. The other with Howard. A third with AD. Now you bring in Kuz with that group, and you have a 5 man rotation up front that is the best in the NBA. AD, Lebron, Kuzma, Howard and McGee. Not a single team in the league has that kind of size, skill, talent up front. With Lebrons PG skill, he is basically able to play a backcourt role as well.
I would look for help in the backcourt in the form of a 3 point shooter and dribble penetration threat, but not at the cost of Kuzma, unless it was someone very significant. I think we should hang on to Kuzma unless we can get a 3rd star for him. Lebron will decline over these 3 seasons. In that time, it is critical we get a 3rd star that can carry the load a bit. Either Kuzma needs to become that player or we need to trade him (in a package) for one.
D Rose helps one side of the ball. That too if he is able to get the usage.
Kuzma can help the Lakers on the other side as well.
No other team in the league can give you these kind of looks up front
Howard-AD-Lebron
AD-Kuz-Lebron
McGee-AD-Lebron
We have 3 completely different lineups we can play - one with McGee inside. The other with Howard. A third with AD. Now you bring in Kuz with that group, and you have a 5 man rotation up front that is the best in the NBA. AD, Lebron, Kuzma, Howard and McGee. Not a single team in the league has that kind of size, skill, talent up front. With Lebrons PG skill, he is basically able to play a backcourt role as well.
I would look for help in the backcourt in the form of a 3 point shooter and dribble penetration threat, but not at the cost of Kuzma, unless it was someone very significant. I think we should hang on to Kuzma unless we can get a 3rd star for him. Lebron will decline over these 3 seasons. In that time, it is critical we get a 3rd star that can carry the load a bit. Either Kuzma needs to become that player or we need to trade him (in a package) for one.
The big assumption here is that Kuzma will either become a 3rd star or will garner enough trade value that will net you a 3rd star.
What if neither happens? Why does the third leading scorer have to be a "star"? Why can't that third guy simply be a guy who gives 12-15 a game? Does that guy have to be under thirty? Why can't the third guy be Rose in the same way the Clippers' third guy is Williams?
Isn't Rose a thousand times more consistent than Kuzma? Wouldn't Rose help this team more now?
You mentioned Rose's ineffectiveness when not getting usage, but I see a huge void for a third guy to get usage. _________________ A creative scorer, a wing defender, and a shooter.
D Rose helps one side of the ball. That too if he is able to get the usage.
Kuzma can help the Lakers on the other side as well.
No other team in the league can give you these kind of looks up front
Howard-AD-Lebron
AD-Kuz-Lebron
McGee-AD-Lebron
We have 3 completely different lineups we can play - one with McGee inside. The other with Howard. A third with AD. Now you bring in Kuz with that group, and you have a 5 man rotation up front that is the best in the NBA. AD, Lebron, Kuzma, Howard and McGee. Not a single team in the league has that kind of size, skill, talent up front. With Lebrons PG skill, he is basically able to play a backcourt role as well.
I would look for help in the backcourt in the form of a 3 point shooter and dribble penetration threat, but not at the cost of Kuzma, unless it was someone very significant. I think we should hang on to Kuzma unless we can get a 3rd star for him. Lebron will decline over these 3 seasons. In that time, it is critical we get a 3rd star that can carry the load a bit. Either Kuzma needs to become that player or we need to trade him (in a package) for one.
The big assumption here is that Kuzma will either become a 3rd star or will garner enough trade value that will net you a 3rd star.
What if neither happens? Why does the third leading scorer have to be a "star"? Why can't that third guy simply be a guy who gives 12-15 a game? Does that guy have to be under thirty? Why can't the third guy be Rose in the same way the Clippers' third guy is Williams?
Isn't Rose a thousand times more consistent than Kuzma? Wouldn't Rose help this team more now?
You mentioned Rose's ineffectiveness when not getting usage, but I see a huge void for a third guy to get usage.
LMAO, Rose is like a regular season bruh. We can’t lose Kuz for a damaged good. When playoff hits, it’s Lebron ball for over 40 plus minutes and Rose will probably play less because he can’t guard a lick.
D Rose helps one side of the ball. That too if he is able to get the usage.
Kuzma can help the Lakers on the other side as well.
No other team in the league can give you these kind of looks up front
Howard-AD-Lebron
AD-Kuz-Lebron
McGee-AD-Lebron
We have 3 completely different lineups we can play - one with McGee inside. The other with Howard. A third with AD. Now you bring in Kuz with that group, and you have a 5 man rotation up front that is the best in the NBA. AD, Lebron, Kuzma, Howard and McGee. Not a single team in the league has that kind of size, skill, talent up front. With Lebrons PG skill, he is basically able to play a backcourt role as well.
I would look for help in the backcourt in the form of a 3 point shooter and dribble penetration threat, but not at the cost of Kuzma, unless it was someone very significant. I think we should hang on to Kuzma unless we can get a 3rd star for him. Lebron will decline over these 3 seasons. In that time, it is critical we get a 3rd star that can carry the load a bit. Either Kuzma needs to become that player or we need to trade him (in a package) for one.
Other dude sounds desperate with the last leg of Rose of all people. Rose is like a buyout pick up kinda dude. You don’t give away a young asset for a fragile damaged good.
It's already been reported that he is looking for a young guy and a high 1st round pick or 2 lower 1sr rounders
Not saying he is getting that but it tells he is looking for Young assets over 1 foot in grave players like d rose
Yeah, the only players that have leaked were Brogdan and RoCo. He's looking for a young piece who fills a need. Either a ballhandling guard who can shoot, or a wing who can defend.
Derrick Rose is simply a slightly younger Lou Williams.
He'd provide the same impact, a better iso threat than even James.
LeBron-Ball is a real thing, for sure, but when a guy he's playing with is elite as an iso threat, and there's a role for that guy to get touches, James has shown the ability to make room for a player like thst (ie. Irving and Wade).
Make no mistake, Rose is an elite iso threat.
Healthwise, of course he's a risk. He'd be on a minutes restriction and he'd probably only play 24 minutes a game, but his skillset is EXACTLY what this team needs.
They need Collison's shooting, speed, and defense -- sign him too -- but they need Rose's one on one ability.
There's room in James' Bron Ball universe for Rose. _________________ A creative scorer, a wing defender, and a shooter.
It's already been reported that he is looking for a young guy and a high 1st round pick or 2 lower 1sr rounders
Not saying he is getting that but it tells he is looking for Young assets over 1 foot in grave players like d rose
And avoiding an unhappy AD with a Cavs 2.0 roster.
Other then next year's 1st, we have no assets other then kuzma and tht.
Looking at recent history dlo became all star in 4th year and bi is baking in 4th year. Its kuzma's 3rd year still. So he needs time
DLo and BI were teenagers when they came in the league. There was just more room for them to grow. Kuz has already gone from a relatively unknown in college to a household name. It's more reasonable to think he's near his ceiling.
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