OFFICIAL GENERAL FREE AGENCY/TRADE THREAD (Available 2019 FAs, LAL Cap Space & KD, KL & AD Scenarios w/ #4 Pick, p.1)
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:52 am    Post subject:

AirKobe8 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I want Dedmon too. And I don't think he'll be as expensive as some are making out, otherwise he wouldn't have taken his 6m player option this summer and tested FA. I think he can be had closer to the room exception range.


I like Dedmon, he's got a nice game for a modern and strong big.

But I also have him on my fantasy team and he usually misses a few games due to knee issues and load management. Sometimes he has minutes restrictions too.

This season he's played 57 out of 69 games. His game totals the past 4 seasons have been 59, 58, 76 and 62. He turns 30 before next season.

We should really go after guys like him, I just feel that today many of the serviceable bigs in the league are often missing games. Maybe it's the pace of the game or whatever, but we need to take that into account and look to have a big rotation of C/PFs. I'd go after at least 2 Dedmon-like guys + Wagner + Johnathan Williams to be safe.

Agreed sir.

Muscala will more than likely be that guy (third string center behind Dedmon and Wagner), with Chandler there as insurance as well.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:52 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Butler, Cousins, and Walker don't really fill any real need.


I'll have to disagree with that.

I'm not a fan of Boogie so let's just cut him out.

Walker:
-pros: initiator, high level scorer, someone who can shoot or attack the rim. Will reduce the load on LBJ, and can actually play off ball too.
-cons: size (we like to switch a lot). Defense isn't horrific but not great either. A little dribble happy though he has a ton of great moves. How will he age as basically a 6 foot PG during age 29-32?

Butler:
-pros: intense defender. Willing 3 point shooter now on decent volume. Shot creator and is a 22+ppg scorer. Intense player who doesn't dog it (which our teams have had a recent history of doing).
-cons: how will he fare in the locker room? Has bristled with his role, etc. on 3 teams now. Will be 30 in September, how does he age? Has been a bit injury prone. How will he fit off ball?
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:53 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
AirKobe8 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I want Dedmon too. And I don't think he'll be as expensive as some are making out, otherwise he wouldn't have taken his 6m player option this summer and tested FA. I think he can be had closer to the room exception range.


I like Dedmon, he's got a nice game for a modern and strong big.

But I also have him on my fantasy team and he usually misses a few games due to knee issues and load management. Sometimes he has minutes restrictions too.

This season he's played 57 out of 69 games. His game totals the past 4 seasons have been 59, 58, 76 and 62. He turns 30 before next season.

We should really go after guys like him, I just feel that today many of the serviceable bigs in the league are often missing games. Maybe it's the pace of the game or whatever, but we need to take that into account and look to have a big rotation of C/PFs. I'd go after at least 2 Dedmon-like guys + Wagner + Johnathan Williams to be safe.

Agreed sir.

Muscala will more than likely be that guy (third string center behind Dedmon and Wagner), with Chandler there as insurance as well.


Yeah. I'd be cool with a reasonably cheap center rotation of:

Dedmon (room exception)
Wags
Tyson
Zu...(wait).
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:55 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I want Dedmon too. And I don't think he'll be as expensive as some are making out, otherwise he wouldn't have taken his 6m player option this summer and tested FA. I think he can be had closer to the room exception range.

I'm not sure what his price will be but he could very well be a waste of money if the Lakers don't have a coach who fosters jumpshooting (Budenholzer did for Dedmon, Lopez, Horford, and Muscala).
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:58 am    Post subject:

Vonleh is another guy who could fill that third string 3&D center role (instead of Muscala).
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:59 am    Post subject:

Get Bradley Beale this summer and maybe kemba not super glamorous but nice for brons last 3 years
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:08 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Butler, Cousins, and Walker don't really fill any real need.


I'll have to disagree with that.

I'm not a fan of Boogie so let's just cut him out.

Walker:
-pros: initiator, high level scorer, someone who can shoot or attack the rim. Will reduce the load on LBJ, and can actually play off ball too.
-cons: size (we like to switch a lot). Defense isn't horrific but not great either. A little dribble happy though he has a ton of great moves. How will he age as basically a 6 foot PG during age 29-32?

Butler:
-pros: intense defender. Willing 3 point shooter now on decent volume. Shot creator and is a 22+ppg scorer. Intense player who doesn't dog it (which our teams have had a recent history of doing).
-cons: how will he fare in the locker room? Has bristled with his role, etc. on 3 teams now. Will be 30 in September, how does he age? Has been a bit injury prone. How will he fit off ball?

You just gave me a scouting report. They're both great players. The Lakers just have other more pressing needs.

40 million dollars would cover those needs pretty nicely.

I'd rather have Reddick or Bogdanovic than Walker or Butler. Why? Because the Lakers need Reddick or Bogdanovic's skillsets much more than Walker or Butlers' ... and they (Reddick or Bogs) will be cheaper which will free more money to fill the other needs.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:13 am    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
Get Bradley Beale this summer and maybe kemba not super glamorous but nice for brons last 3 years


I'd prefer one or the other between Beal and Kemba. They'd be somewhat redundant together. Even though Beal is younger, I'd prefer getting Kemba because we don't have to give up assets.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:14 am    Post subject:

^^^if Butler is available, then Reddick is likely not available
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:17 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
^^^if Butler is available, then Reddick is likely not available


I think Philly will just keep everybody if noone wants to jump ship, unless their playoff campaign is a disaster.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:18 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Butler, Cousins, and Walker don't really fill any real need.


I'll have to disagree with that.

I'm not a fan of Boogie so let's just cut him out.

Walker:
-pros: initiator, high level scorer, someone who can shoot or attack the rim. Will reduce the load on LBJ, and can actually play off ball too.
-cons: size (we like to switch a lot). Defense isn't horrific but not great either. A little dribble happy though he has a ton of great moves. How will he age as basically a 6 foot PG during age 29-32?

Butler:
-pros: intense defender. Willing 3 point shooter now on decent volume. Shot creator and is a 22+ppg scorer. Intense player who doesn't dog it (which our teams have had a recent history of doing).
-cons: how will he fare in the locker room? Has bristled with his role, etc. on 3 teams now. Will be 30 in September, how does he age? Has been a bit injury prone. How will he fit off ball?

You just gave me a scouting report. They're both great players. The Lakers just have other more pressing needs.

40 million dollars would cover those needs pretty nicely.

I'd rather have Reddick or Bogdanovic than Walker or Butler. Why? Because the Lakers need Reddick or Bogdanovic's skillsets much more than Walker or Butlers' ... and they (Reddick or Bogs) will be cheaper which will free more money to fill the other needs.


But my pros as described are things we need too.

Jimmy: Perimeter defender/offensive creator/someone to take LBJ's load if he's out, etc. Check. Look at the collapse of this team when LBJ went down for 18 games.

Kemba: scorer, could actually be a 25ppg+ scorer off of LBJ, same as above. He checks a lot of boxes too.

I understand we need shooters, but we just got an elite one in Bullock and look what happened. We need a better system first (and coach). Spending 37m on Reddick/Bog is pretty crazy to me, particularly when Reddick is what, 35 and a defensive liability.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:19 am    Post subject:

AirKobe8 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
^^^if Butler is available, then Reddick is likely not available


I think Philly will just keep everybody if noone wants to jump ship, unless their playoff campaign is a disaster.


Re-sign Tobias to max.
Extend Ben.
Keep JJ (15-16m/year)
Re-sign Jimmy to max?

I don't see Jimmy at all.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:28 am    Post subject:

LBJ formula includes shooters.

But his Finals teams also had a dependable #2 scoring option (Wade, Kyrie).

To just have system shooters but not a #2 scoring option (who may emerge as #1 as LBJ declines) is also not capitalizing on what works for a LBJ centric team.

Sadly we need both. Obviously KD, Klay, KL work but I doubt they are coming here.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:33 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Butler, Cousins, and Walker don't really fill any real need.


I'll have to disagree with that.

I'm not a fan of Boogie so let's just cut him out.

Walker:
-pros: initiator, high level scorer, someone who can shoot or attack the rim. Will reduce the load on LBJ, and can actually play off ball too.
-cons: size (we like to switch a lot). Defense isn't horrific but not great either. A little dribble happy though he has a ton of great moves. How will he age as basically a 6 foot PG during age 29-32?

Butler:
-pros: intense defender. Willing 3 point shooter now on decent volume. Shot creator and is a 22+ppg scorer. Intense player who doesn't dog it (which our teams have had a recent history of doing).
-cons: how will he fare in the locker room? Has bristled with his role, etc. on 3 teams now. Will be 30 in September, how does he age? Has been a bit injury prone. How will he fit off ball?

You just gave me a scouting report. They're both great players. The Lakers just have other more pressing needs.

40 million dollars would cover those needs pretty nicely.

I'd rather have Reddick or Bogdanovic than Walker or Butler. Why? Because the Lakers need Reddick or Bogdanovic's skillsets much more than Walker or Butlers' ... and they (Reddick or Bogs) will be cheaper which will free more money to fill the other needs.


But my pros as described are things we need too.

Jimmy: Perimeter defender/offensive creator/someone to take LBJ's load if he's out, etc. Check. Look at the collapse of this team when LBJ went down for 18 games.

Kemba: scorer, could actually be a 25ppg+ scorer off of LBJ, same as above. He checks a lot of boxes too.

I understand we need shooters, but we just got an elite one in Bullock and look what happened. We need a better system first (and coach). Spending 37m on Reddick/Bog is pretty crazy to me, particularly when Reddick is what, 35 and a defensive liability.

It would be silly to spend 37 million on Reddick or Bogdanovic. Not sure where you gathered that.

The Lakers only need Butler or Walker if Ingram is done. Otherwise they'll just be spending just to spend. Unless Butler/Walker become 40% shooters, you might as well tell Ingram to live in a tiny house, because his game will become completely hampered and constricted.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:34 am    Post subject:

The LBJ formula is pretty straightforward.

It's LBJ + second scorer + two 3 and D + rebounding big

Off the bench it's playmaker + microwave scorer + two 3 and D + rebounding big.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:36 am    Post subject:

I think Butler’s mid range game, occasional three, is good enough because he’s a much better defender than Bog or Red. One will argue defense has been a disaster this year and could be just as important as a knock down 3 shooter. So Butler is my choice. Then spend the exceptions on a shooters and a 3D center/PF.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:37 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
^^^if Butler is available, then Reddick is likely not available

You're right. Reddick really loves Phila, but he might be able to be stolen for the right price.

Admitedly, it's a longshot, which is why you go for Bogs and Eric Gordon as well.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:38 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Butler, Cousins, and Walker don't really fill any real need.


I'll have to disagree with that.

I'm not a fan of Boogie so let's just cut him out.

Walker:
-pros: initiator, high level scorer, someone who can shoot or attack the rim. Will reduce the load on LBJ, and can actually play off ball too.
-cons: size (we like to switch a lot). Defense isn't horrific but not great either. A little dribble happy though he has a ton of great moves. How will he age as basically a 6 foot PG during age 29-32?

Butler:
-pros: intense defender. Willing 3 point shooter now on decent volume. Shot creator and is a 22+ppg scorer. Intense player who doesn't dog it (which our teams have had a recent history of doing).
-cons: how will he fare in the locker room? Has bristled with his role, etc. on 3 teams now. Will be 30 in September, how does he age? Has been a bit injury prone. How will he fit off ball?

You just gave me a scouting report. They're both great players. The Lakers just have other more pressing needs.

40 million dollars would cover those needs pretty nicely.

I'd rather have Reddick or Bogdanovic than Walker or Butler. Why? Because the Lakers need Reddick or Bogdanovic's skillsets much more than Walker or Butlers' ... and they (Reddick or Bogs) will be cheaper which will free more money to fill the other needs.


But my pros as described are things we need too.

Jimmy: Perimeter defender/offensive creator/someone to take LBJ's load if he's out, etc. Check. Look at the collapse of this team when LBJ went down for 18 games.

Kemba: scorer, could actually be a 25ppg+ scorer off of LBJ, same as above. He checks a lot of boxes too.

I understand we need shooters, but we just got an elite one in Bullock and look what happened. We need a better system first (and coach). Spending 37m on Reddick/Bog is pretty crazy to me, particularly when Reddick is what, 35 and a defensive liability.

It would be silly to spend 37 million on Reddick or Bogdanovic. Not sure where you gathered that.

The Lakers only need Butler or Walker if Ingram is done. Otherwise they'll just be spending just to spend. Unless Butler/Walker become 40% shooters, you might as well tell Ingram to live in a tiny house, because his game will become completely hampered and constricted.


You're spending 37m in cap space on Reddick, Bullock, Dedmon, and Mbah Moute?

Quote:
PG - James - Ball
SG - Reddick - Bullock
C - Dedmon - Wagner
PF - Mbah a Moute - Kuzma
SF - Ingram - (James/Bullock)


BI has a blood clot that may or may not be resolved by July 1. If everyone else is off the table and Kemba/Jimmy say they'll come, do you think BI will really stop the Lakers from signing one of these guys?

Mbah is a minimum player.
We have Bird rights on Bullock if we want to keep him.
And Dedmon IMO can be a room exception signing.

So it's really a 35 year old JJ Reddick vs. a 29 year old Kemba/30 year old Jimmy. I'm going with the latter two.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:39 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
LBJ formula includes shooters.

But his Finals teams also had a dependable #2 scoring option (Wade, Kyrie).

To just have system shooters but not a #2 scoring option (who may emerge as #1 as LBJ declines) is also not capitalizing on what works for a LBJ centric team.

Sadly we need both. Obviously KD, Klay, KL work but I doubt they are coming here.


thats why we need to trade our first rounder for a shooter who is on rookie contract then we can spend cap exception on someone like Dedmon.

Huerter or Kennard would fit the role of shooter.

Kemba, Dedmon and Huerter/Kennard would solve our many problems
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:43 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
LBJ formula includes shooters.

But his Finals teams also had a dependable #2 scoring option (Wade, Kyrie).

To just have system shooters but not a #2 scoring option (who may emerge as #1 as LBJ declines) is also not capitalizing on what works for a LBJ centric team.

Sadly we need both. Obviously KD, Klay, KL work but I doubt they are coming here.

Agreed. Ingram, on the team I proposed, fulfills that role. He's the guy that becomes the second option. My shooter signing becomes the third option, integral to opening up the floor for James and Ingram.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:47 am    Post subject:

Palin wrote:


thats why we need to trade our first rounder for a shooter who is on rookie contract then we can spend cap exception on someone like Dedmon.

Huerter or Kennard would fit the role of shooter.

Kemba, Dedmon and Huerter/Kennard would solve our many problems


Pistons are very unlikely to be interested in moving Kennard....the whole reason they wanted to dump Bullock was to make room for Kennard....and I also see no reason the Hawks would consider moving Huerter.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:47 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LBJ formula includes shooters.

But his Finals teams also had a dependable #2 scoring option (Wade, Kyrie).

To just have system shooters but not a #2 scoring option (who may emerge as #1 as LBJ declines) is also not capitalizing on what works for a LBJ centric team.

Sadly we need both. Obviously KD, Klay, KL work but I doubt they are coming here.

Agreed. Ingram, on the team I proposed, fulfills that role. He's the guy that becomes the second option. My shooter signing becomes the third option, integral to opening up the floor for James and Ingram.


I'm not sure we will know whether BI is fully cleared from a blood clot issue by July, and whether we pass on getting a Kemba/Jimmy level (yes, Tier B, and of course I wish we could get KD/KL/Klay over them) assuming he's healthy enough. I think BI's extension price is going to be suppressed b/c of the blood clot, and he may remain a question mark for the near and long term due to that medical issue.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:51 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Butler, Cousins, and Walker don't really fill any real need.


I'll have to disagree with that.

I'm not a fan of Boogie so let's just cut him out.

Walker:
-pros: initiator, high level scorer, someone who can shoot or attack the rim. Will reduce the load on LBJ, and can actually play off ball too.
-cons: size (we like to switch a lot). Defense isn't horrific but not great either. A little dribble happy though he has a ton of great moves. How will he age as basically a 6 foot PG during age 29-32?

Butler:
-pros: intense defender. Willing 3 point shooter now on decent volume. Shot creator and is a 22+ppg scorer. Intense player who doesn't dog it (which our teams have had a recent history of doing).
-cons: how will he fare in the locker room? Has bristled with his role, etc. on 3 teams now. Will be 30 in September, how does he age? Has been a bit injury prone. How will he fit off ball?

You just gave me a scouting report. They're both great players. The Lakers just have other more pressing needs.

40 million dollars would cover those needs pretty nicely.

I'd rather have Reddick or Bogdanovic than Walker or Butler. Why? Because the Lakers need Reddick or Bogdanovic's skillsets much more than Walker or Butlers' ... and they (Reddick or Bogs) will be cheaper which will free more money to fill the other needs.


But my pros as described are things we need too.

Jimmy: Perimeter defender/offensive creator/someone to take LBJ's load if he's out, etc. Check. Look at the collapse of this team when LBJ went down for 18 games.

Kemba: scorer, could actually be a 25ppg+ scorer off of LBJ, same as above. He checks a lot of boxes too.

I understand we need shooters, but we just got an elite one in Bullock and look what happened. We need a better system first (and coach). Spending 37m on Reddick/Bog is pretty crazy to me, particularly when Reddick is what, 35 and a defensive liability.

It would be silly to spend 37 million on Reddick or Bogdanovic. Not sure where you gathered that.

The Lakers only need Butler or Walker if Ingram is done. Otherwise they'll just be spending just to spend. Unless Butler/Walker become 40% shooters, you might as well tell Ingram to live in a tiny house, because his game will become completely hampered and constricted.


You're spending 37m in cap space on Reddick, Bullock, Dedmon, and Mbah Moute?

Quote:
PG - James - Ball
SG - Reddick - Bullock
C - Dedmon - Wagner
PF - Mbah a Moute - Kuzma
SF - Ingram - (James/Bullock)


BI has a blood clot that may or may not be resolved by July 1. If everyone else is off the table and Kemba/Jimmy say they'll come, do you think BI will really stop the Lakers from signing one of these guys?

Mbah is a minimum player.
We have Bird rights on Bullock if we want to keep him.
And Dedmon IMO can be a room exception signing.

So it's really a 35 year old JJ Reddick vs. a 29 year old Kemba/30 year old Jimmy. I'm going with the latter two.

I don't Dedmon and Mbah a Moute come to the Lakers for the contracts you predict. Dedmon will require midlevel money (6-9 mill) and Mbah a Moute will require 3-5 mill.

Reddick or Bogdanovic will require 20 mill.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:57 am    Post subject:

Quote:
I don't Dedmon and Mbah a Moute come to the Lakers for the contracts you predict. Dedmon will require midlevel money (6-9 mill) and Mbah a Moute will require 3-5 mill.

Reddick or Bogdanovic will require 20 mill.


Dedmon picked up a 6m player option when he could have hit the FA market this summer. I think he checked the market and found it was tepid. Plus, he's turning 30 and is a role player. I think the room exception of close to 5m (4.8m or something) will be more than enough for him so long as it's more than 1 year.

Mbah hasn't exactly lit the world on fire this year. He's played in 4 games. No way anyone is paying him 3-5m/year as he is already 32, and missed most of this season. I think he may be a biannual exception level player.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:03 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
I don't Dedmon and Mbah a Moute come to the Lakers for the contracts you predict. Dedmon will require midlevel money (6-9 mill) and Mbah a Moute will require 3-5 mill.

Reddick or Bogdanovic will require 20 mill.


Dedmon picked up a 6m player option when he could have hit the FA market this summer. I think he checked the market and found it was tepid. Plus, he's turning 30 and is a role player. I think the room exception of close to 5m (4.8m or something) will be more than enough for him so long as it's more than 1 year.

Mbah hasn't exactly lit the world on fire this year. He's played in 4 games. No way anyone is paying him 3-5m/year as he is already 32, and missed most of this season. I think he may be a biannual exception level player.


I agree. And also, centers have been having difficulties getting big deals in the past offseasons, it's just what the league has become.

Last offseason a guy like Nurkic, starting level guy and still young got only 12 mil/per. Any perimeter player of the same tier would've gotten 20+ easily.

Kyle O'Quinn signed for 4.5 million with the Pacers
Brook went for 3.4 mil to Milwaukee
Ed Davis 4.4 in Brooklyn
We got JaVale for the min
Nerlens Noel is playing for 1.7 mil for the Thunder
Looney 1.5 with GSW

Even Randle who is 2/3 levels above all those guys got a very cheap contract at 9 mil per. The market hasn't been good to bigs, and I don't think it'll change. The big man spot in the NBA has been crippled and their role has been reduced to a point where teams just don't care who's there, they sign plug and play guys basically.

Mbah a Moute signed for 4.3 million last year. He's barely played this season and is 32. I don't even know if I'd want him, but he's definitely not getting big bucks either.
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