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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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 Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | Rubin wrote: |
Not sure the same applies here. Griff most certainly only takes that job if he’s assured of 100% autonomy over the AD situation. No way someone of his caliber takes that job if ownership tells him “to the Lakers over our dead bodies.” He’ll take the best deal. |
I don’t see Loomis giving 100% autonomy to anybody, and I doubt Griff was highly regarded enough to get that from him. I’d see a Jerry West or something.... |
Even Doc Buss over ruled West
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Intlakeshow wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Intlakeshow wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | Dude, my first post in the thread was explaining that the whole market for AD was basically Lakers/Knicks/Celtics, and that if you eliminate one of those teams because of spite(Lakers), you’re down to 2, and depending on what happens in free agency, that leverage could get even worse. Either you’re reading comprehension is terrible or you’re just trolling, because nobody in their right mind would think the Knicks are a “dark horse” team when they’re obviously very much in play for Davis. Now if you think that a two team market(possibly one) is a lot, then I don’t know what to tell you. |
Look at my post. I clearly mark Portland (not the Knicks) as a "darkhorse" team. Are you literally trolling me?
The market is way more than 2-3 teams. I don't understand how you think otherwise. |
Yeah Knicks and Celtics is “way more than 2-3 teams”, cool story bro. |
I'm glad you finally acknowledged that I didn't say the Knicks were a "darkhorse." 
You are literally creating fictional situations and passing them off as facts.
My assertion that there are more teams that will bid for AD than there were at the deadline is factually true. There will be many more than 2-3 teams that bid for him, even if you, self-appointed arbiter of trades, don't think the offers are great.
I know for sure we start with a thumb against us on the scales for just being the Lakers. Ask how it went with the KL/PG/AD-Feb 2019 trade talks. |
You’re too worried about being right to actually read why I’m writing. I have no idea where the trade deadline argument came from since I was never comparing the two. I had already mentioned the Knicks and Celtics to which you responded that there’s other dark horse teams out there, and after I asked you to named them, you listed the Knicks. It’s not my fault your reading comprehension sucks. Self appointed arbiter of trades? I, unlike you, can have a disagreement with someone without moving the goalposts and saying dumb stuff like this, you obviously get your feelings hurt easily so bye. |
Feelings hurt? You came at me, I pointed out what everyone else clearly saw. How can we just not debate, agree to disagree without you hurling "reading comprehension" insults at people?
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Wino wrote: | | LAL1947 wrote: | | iimarshon wrote: | | 0514 wrote: | Windhorst
“think Knicks are still in position if they want to trade for AD. For better or worse for LAL fans this draft breaks at 3. Wonderful day for LAL to move up from 11 to 4. W/ the 4th pick the Pels still dont like that trade w/ the LAL & still dont wanna do businnes w/ the LAL.” |
I totally get that, but also:
Ingram/Kuzma/Hart/Wagner beats Robinson/Trier/DSJ/Knox IMO
I kinda think Pels try to keep AD |
I don't think our offer there clearly wins over what the Knicks would most likely give TBH:
Ntilikina: $4,855,800
Smith Jr: $4,463,640
Knox: $4,380,120
Robinson: $1,559,712
#3 pick * 1.2: $6,560,640
-------------------------
Total = $21,819,912
The Pels will have a fully rebuilt team, with 8 young lottery picks... and Jrue and Robinson rounding them off to 10.
Payton / Smith
Jrue / Ntilikina
Barrett / Knox
Zion / Randle
Okafor / Robinson
+ Moore, Hill, Kenrich, etc.
If you were a Pels fan, wouldn't you be happy with that roster? |
And the Knicks are left with one player, AD. If they are able to sign Durant and Kyrie, then yeah, but when teams bank on shiz like this, is when they go down. You cannot bank on players coming your way on their own volition.
And Dolan still sucks, I find it amusing how everyone is down and Jeannie and say nobody will play here because she is such a cluster F, but they are knocking on Dolan's door with arms open.
If this isn't a con job and a hack towards the Buss family for simply being successful, then what is?? F every other NBA owner for screwing with us. Time to play some hard ball back Jeannie. F these people, beat their asses. |
There nothing Jeanie can do
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Intlakeshow
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Joined: 21 Jun 2017
Posts: 729
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Intlakeshow wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Intlakeshow wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | Dude, my first post in the thread was explaining that the whole market for AD was basically Lakers/Knicks/Celtics, and that if you eliminate one of those teams because of spite(Lakers), you’re down to 2, and depending on what happens in free agency, that leverage could get even worse. Either you’re reading comprehension is terrible or you’re just trolling, because nobody in their right mind would think the Knicks are a “dark horse” team when they’re obviously very much in play for Davis. Now if you think that a two team market(possibly one) is a lot, then I don’t know what to tell you. |
Look at my post. I clearly mark Portland (not the Knicks) as a "darkhorse" team. Are you literally trolling me?
The market is way more than 2-3 teams. I don't understand how you think otherwise. |
Yeah Knicks and Celtics is “way more than 2-3 teams”, cool story bro. |
I'm glad you finally acknowledged that I didn't say the Knicks were a "darkhorse."
You are literally creating fictional situations and passing them off as facts.
My assertion that there are more teams that will bid for AD than there were at the deadline is factually true. There will be many more than 2-3 teams that bid for him, even if you, self-appointed arbiter of trades, don't think the offers are great.
I know for sure we start with a thumb against us on the scales for just being the Lakers. Ask how it went with the KL/PG/AD-Feb 2019 trade talks. |
You’re too worried about being right to actually read why I’m writing. I have no idea where the trade deadline argument came from since I was never comparing the two. I had already mentioned the Knicks and Celtics to which you responded that there’s other dark horse teams out there, and after I asked you to named them, you listed the Knicks. It’s not my fault your reading comprehension sucks. Self appointed arbiter of trades? I, unlike you, can have a disagreement with someone without moving the goalposts and saying dumb stuff like this, you obviously get your feelings hurt easily so bye. |
Feelings hurt? You came at me, I pointed out what everyone else clearly saw. How can we just not debate, agree to disagree without you hurling "reading comprehension" insults at people? |
You’re the one that started mocking my posts with smiley faces for no reason and then started switching the goalposts. If you disagree with me, that’s fine. But it’s hard to have a normal debate with someone when they don’t even understand/read what you’re writing and are mocking you on top of it. |
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Bard207
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 7713
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| LBJ23 wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: | | LBJ23 wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: | | trablos wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | Jaren Jackson is getting paid 5.9m
So Ingram 7.2 + 6m #4 + 2m Wagner +2 m Hart= 17.2 m
4 m short of ad trade |
Sign Kyrie, find a way to keep Ball and make that offer to Nola maybe using a S&T using one our 1 year guys? |
What is the first year salary for the player sent to New Orleans via a sign and trade? |
I am still waiting for your response. |
It would have to be around 9 million with BI, Kuz, Mo, and Hart included |
No |
If you know why don't you tell us. If the 4 pick salary counts, it would be around 3 or 4 million for the s and t player? |
I asked a question of Trabalos last night and never received an answer.
Then Trabalos asks a question of me today and I responded.
I don't understand refusing to answer my question, yet asking a question of me less than 24 hours later.
Last edited by Bard207 on Wed May 15, 2019 12:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | That's why you agree to the trade first, on Draft night, which comes before free agency. At that point, you have not secured a max free agent. And then, you get the free agent, and you officially execute the trade after that. (Thirty days after the pick signs.)
The bottom line, to me, is that Griffin is going to do what's best for the franchise. If we have the best offer, he'll take it, I believe. If another team beats it, sure, he'll take that. I'm not suggesting that we can get him for mere peanuts. But he is an expiring, and we've seen time and again that star players in their walk year just don't get as much as what many think they can fetch. |
1. That is why we would want to do it on draft night, but it takes two to tango. It may be in the Pelicans’ interest to let the market open up. Even then, I interpret LS’s discussion on page 1 to mean that we would lose some of our cap space. I am NOT a cap guru, so I will accept correction on this.
2. Kawhi Leonard is the counter-example here. The Spurs did better than most people expected, though of course not what Kawhi would have commanded with more time on his contract. I do not dispute your logic, but everyone should remember — as you say — that Griffin will want to maximize his return.
3. With that in mind, I will speculate about how Griffin will see things. I don’t know how Griffin rates Ingram and Ball. They both have warts in their games, and they have health issues. But they have a lot of upside. I would expect him to be unimpressed with Kuzma and Hart. I would expect him to want, at a minimum, Ingram, Ball, the #4, and next year’s first. If we don’t offer it, I’d expect him to test the market. I may be proven wrong, but I would be surprised if Griffin sells cheaper than that. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Intlakeshow wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Intlakeshow wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Intlakeshow wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | Dude, my first post in the thread was explaining that the whole market for AD was basically Lakers/Knicks/Celtics, and that if you eliminate one of those teams because of spite(Lakers), you’re down to 2, and depending on what happens in free agency, that leverage could get even worse. Either you’re reading comprehension is terrible or you’re just trolling, because nobody in their right mind would think the Knicks are a “dark horse” team when they’re obviously very much in play for Davis. Now if you think that a two team market(possibly one) is a lot, then I don’t know what to tell you. |
Look at my post. I clearly mark Portland (not the Knicks) as a "darkhorse" team. Are you literally trolling me?
The market is way more than 2-3 teams. I don't understand how you think otherwise. |
Yeah Knicks and Celtics is “way more than 2-3 teams”, cool story bro. |
I'm glad you finally acknowledged that I didn't say the Knicks were a "darkhorse."
You are literally creating fictional situations and passing them off as facts.
My assertion that there are more teams that will bid for AD than there were at the deadline is factually true. There will be many more than 2-3 teams that bid for him, even if you, self-appointed arbiter of trades, don't think the offers are great.
I know for sure we start with a thumb against us on the scales for just being the Lakers. Ask how it went with the KL/PG/AD-Feb 2019 trade talks. |
You’re too worried about being right to actually read why I’m writing. I have no idea where the trade deadline argument came from since I was never comparing the two. I had already mentioned the Knicks and Celtics to which you responded that there’s other dark horse teams out there, and after I asked you to named them, you listed the Knicks. It’s not my fault your reading comprehension sucks. Self appointed arbiter of trades? I, unlike you, can have a disagreement with someone without moving the goalposts and saying dumb stuff like this, you obviously get your feelings hurt easily so bye. |
Feelings hurt? You came at me, I pointed out what everyone else clearly saw. How can we just not debate, agree to disagree without you hurling "reading comprehension" insults at people? |
You’re the one that started mocking my posts with smiley faces for no reason and then started switching the goalposts. If you disagree with me, that’s fine. But it’s hard to have a normal debate with someone when they don’t even understand/read what you’re writing and are mocking you on top of it. |
Oh my. Let's just move on.
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LAL1947
Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2018
Posts: 1855
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Wino wrote: | | And the Knicks are left with one player, AD. If they are able to sign Durant and Kyrie, then yeah, but when teams bank on shiz like this, is when they go down. You cannot bank on players coming your way on their own volition. |
Well, that's what I had in mind... i.e., the Knicks might make that offer like that if they were sure of getting KD + Kyrie. He wouldn't stay there otherwise. Too soon to know anything though. AD, KD and Kyrie might not even leave their teams. We'll have to wait and see. |
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Rubin
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Joined: 23 Aug 2017
Posts: 632
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | Rubin wrote: |
Not sure the same applies here. Griff most certainly only takes that job if he’s assured of 100% autonomy over the AD situation. No way someone of his caliber takes that job if ownership tells him “to the Lakers over our dead bodies.” He’ll take the best deal. |
I don’t see Loomis giving 100% autonomy to anybody, and I doubt Griff was highly regarded enough to get that from him. I’d see a Jerry West or something.... |
Maybe I’m being naive. But Griff is one of the most highly regarded execs in the league and sat on the sidelines for over a year. Dude was living his best life in Napa Valley with his wife. He didn’t have to take the Pels job — he could’ve kept waiting for a better gig. Without autonomy over the AD situation, the Pels job is pretty lousy (move from Napa to New Orleans, no young assets, poor cap situation, slightly below average roster, etc...) Why would he take it in that situation?
Again, not saying I even think a Lakers trade is likely. Just that I don’t buy the notion that he took the job with his superiors putting limitations on what he’s allowed to do. They even gave him an EVP title compared to Demps’ GM title. That says something about the power he’s being given. |
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SocalDevin
Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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4th pick when we were expecting 11..
We have a top 5 player in Bron on the roster..
Cap space for another elite top 5 player..
A talented young core of 4..
Great times.. There's some issues with the front office, but I don't see the shet show that everyone believes it is. We are in a great position.. |
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nzahir
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Jan 2019
Posts: 338
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Any semi expensive bigs we should look to trade for/sign if we miss out on AD?
If we miss on the big name FA's: I wonder if we could do BI, Wagner and 4 for Beal and 9
17M for Horford (assuming opt out). Get rid of Bonga. About 18M a year. 3 years 54M
Lonzo, Beal, Sign a SF with room exception, Lebron, Horford
Bullock, 9th pick, Hart, Kuzma, Chandler plus vet min pg, vet min small ball energy big, and a vet met min shooter
Maybe move Hart or rookie for a cheap starting sf? |
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Inspector Gadget
Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46638
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | 4th pick when we were expecting 11..
We have a top 5 player in Bron on the roster..
Cap space for another elite top 5 player..
A talented young core of 4..
Great times.. There's some issues with the front office, but I don't see the shet show that everyone believes it is. We are in a great position.. |
Preach |
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Rubin
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Posts: 632
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | In the end, it may just save the Lakers from offering up too many assets in a trade (and I love AD for the record). We may get a 2nd max FA, and keep BI/Lonzo/4th pick/Kuz/Hart, et. al. for a deeper team, and a chance to opportunistically trade later down the road.
I think the Pels trade angle may be asking to be strung along again as leverage when the deal is being catered to non Lakers team. We all know the Lakers leverage angle that is used against us by FAs and trade situations alike.
We should not feel it's AD or bust b/c it really isn't. |
Whole-heartedly agree. If we can sign a second superstar, part of me would prefer a trade for someone like Beal in which we keep one of Lonzo/Ingram/#4 as opposed to giving up everything for AD. Bron/Kawhi/Beal and one of Lonzo or Ingram is pretty tantalizing.
Regardless — the Lakers are in position to have an excellent summer. It would frankly be hard to screw this up. Here’s to hoping Jeanie and the Rambii don’t find a way to. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21455
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| If AD wants to be traded in the summer and the team decides to wait til the TDL to change his mind, AD should spend every day telling Zion how terrible it is to be in NO so he ends up hating it too. |
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noahp45
Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 6572
Location: Oceanside Ca
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Give me
Ad
Ball
Sg from the draft
Bron
Tobias |
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Freddie Buckets
Star Player
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 9131
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Bleacher Report
@BleacherReport
Pelicans are still not interested in trading AD to the Lakers, even after LA landed the No. 4 pick, per
@WindhorstESPN |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Rubin wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | In the end, it may just save the Lakers from offering up too many assets in a trade (and I love AD for the record). We may get a 2nd max FA, and keep BI/Lonzo/4th pick/Kuz/Hart, et. al. for a deeper team, and a chance to opportunistically trade later down the road.
I think the Pels trade angle may be asking to be strung along again as leverage when the deal is being catered to non Lakers team. We all know the Lakers leverage angle that is used against us by FAs and trade situations alike.
We should not feel it's AD or bust b/c it really isn't. |
Whole-heartedly agree. If we can sign a second superstar, part of me would prefer a trade for someone like Beal in which we keep one of Lonzo/Ingram/#4 as opposed to giving up everything for AD. Bron/Kawhi/Beal and one of Lonzo or Ingram is pretty tantalizing.
Regardless — the Lakers are in position to have an excellent summer. It would frankly be hard to screw this up. Here’s to hoping Jeanie and the Rambii don’t find a way to. |
Without Beal we would be devastating IMO.
Lonzo
BI
KL
LBJ
Room exception center.
You'd still have a #4 pick (Garland, Hunter, Culver, etc.), Hart, Kuz, Mo, Bonga, etc. plus any ring chasers.
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LAL1947
Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2018
Posts: 1855
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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May I attempt to explain where the disconnect seems to be?
The quote chain started when Yinoma said the Pelicans may send AD East simply because they do not want to deal with us. Then:
1) Intlakeshow responded saying it wouldn't be the best thing for the Pels to do because they'd be limiting themselves in terms of getting themselves the best deal, especially if we are willing to offer up trades that the Pels could use to drive up the bidding... which is true, but doesn't make Yinoma's point untrue.
2) Yinoma responded saying there are other teams in the fray and that a dark-horse (such as the Blazers) may even emerge to trade for AD using the KL/PG trades as examples... which is true, but doesn't make Intlakeshow's point untrue.
I'm para-phrasing... but that is how the two of you started off disagreeing. You two should kiss and make up. 
Last edited by LAL1947 on Wed May 15, 2019 12:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mini Mamba
Star Player
Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 6006
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Freddie Buckets wrote: | | Quote: | Bleacher Report
@BleacherReport
Pelicans are still not interested in trading AD to the Lakers, even after LA landed the No. 4 pick, per
@WindhorstESPN |
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We should forget about trading for AD and put our focus on Kawhi and Kyrie. |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| LAL1947 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | If the Lakers sign a max, then the threat of AD to Lakers in 2020 as a FA disappears. That leverage point evaporates. So that actually is in favor of the non-Lakers teams then.
I simply used the KL/PG points to illustrate: 1) there are always dark horse random teams that bid for stars (and got them); 2) teams have actively been against the Lakers getting a star via trade.
Not sure why this poster is so against these two self-evident points. |
May I attempt to explain where the disconnect seems to be? The quote chain started where you said the Pelicans may send AD East simply because they do not want to deal with us. Then:
1) He responded to this post saying it wouldn't be the best thing for the Pels to do because they'd be limiting themselves in terms of getting themselves the best deal, especially if we are willing to offer up trades that the Pels could use to drive up the bidding... which is true, but doesn't make your point untrue.
2) You responded to that by saying there are other teams in the fray and that a dark-horse (such as the Blazers) may even emerge to trade for AD using the KL/PG trades as examples... which is true, but doesn't make his point untrue.
I'm para-phrasing... but that is how the two of you started off disagreeing. You two should kiss and make up. |
Yeah I think you're right! 
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Freddie Buckets
Star Player
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 9131
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Mini Mamba wrote: | | Freddie Buckets wrote: | | Quote: | Bleacher Report
@BleacherReport
Pelicans are still not interested in trading AD to the Lakers, even after LA landed the No. 4 pick, per
@WindhorstESPN |
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We should forget about trading for AD and put our focus on Kawhi and Kyrie. |
I actually think our chances of signing Kyrie are pretty good. Not sure about Kawhi though |
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2019
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10801
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Freddie Buckets wrote: | | Quote: | Bleacher Report
@BleacherReport
Pelicans are still not interested in trading AD to the Lakers, even after LA landed the No. 4 pick, per
@WindhorstESPN |
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NY makes more sense from NO pov. Get him out if conference, don't give AD/Lakers/Kiutch what they want but still give him a good/great situation, and get RJ to pair with Zion.
Robinson
Zion | Knox
Barret
Jrue
Smith | Ntilikina
I'm stating to come to the conclusion we have no shot.... |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Rubin wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | Rubin wrote: |
Not sure the same applies here. Griff most certainly only takes that job if he’s assured of 100% autonomy over the AD situation. No way someone of his caliber takes that job if ownership tells him “to the Lakers over our dead bodies.” He’ll take the best deal. |
I don’t see Loomis giving 100% autonomy to anybody, and I doubt Griff was highly regarded enough to get that from him. I’d see a Jerry West or something.... |
Maybe I’m being naive. But Griff is one of the most highly regarded execs in the league and sat on the sidelines for over a year. Dude was living his best life in Napa Valley with his wife. He didn’t have to take the Pels job — he could’ve kept waiting for a better gig. Without autonomy over the AD situation, the Pels job is pretty lousy (move from Napa to New Orleans, no young assets, poor cap situation, slightly below average roster, etc...) Why would he take it in that situation?
Again, not saying I even think a Lakers trade is likely. Just that I don’t buy the notion that he took the job with his superiors putting limitations on what he’s allowed to do. They even gave him an EVP title compared to Demps’ GM title. That says something about the power he’s being given. |
Every owner of every team approves or disapproves major deals. No GM or EVP makes those decisions on their own.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Freddie Buckets wrote: | | Quote: | Bleacher Report
@BleacherReport
Pelicans are still not interested in trading AD to the Lakers, even after LA landed the No. 4 pick, per
@WindhorstESPN |
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I do think the Pels may act against their self interest b/c of their enmity towards LA. So be it. We will be just fine.
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 16702
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| I try #4 +? For Beal |
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