OFFICIAL GENERAL FREE AGENCY/TRADE THREAD (No Kawhi, But Lakers Sign Green, Cook, KCP, Caruso, Cousins, Dudley, Daniels, McGee & Bradley)
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pjiddy
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:13 pm    Post subject:

I can already see the Ramona article.


"There were some in the organization who were reluctant to do the deal, but Kurt felt the chance to get AD, who could be a future Laker Legend, was too good to pass up and signed off on the trade. This was a big step for Kurt toward becoming the dominant voice in the Lakers' front office."
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:15 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
YSong wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
YSong wrote:
Randle is gone. Move on

If he was this amazing 20/10 player how come he’s not getting that 4/$100mm deal?


He might get close that this summer depending on what other max FAs do.

I can easily see him getting 4yrs/80m this summer.


Gosh if only I could wager you a few thousand $$$


If only you had a few thousand $$...



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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:18 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
What the Lakers do with #4 will tell us how confident they are with signing a max FA.

If there is no trade agreed to before the draft, the Lakers still feel they can get Kawhi, Kyrie, or Kemba.


It may not be that way. In fact, knowing they have a commit from a top free agent may actually embolden them to become even more aggressive for AD.


It is more so if they agree to trade for say Beal before the draft, it means they aren't confident they can get another star FA.

Even for AD, Pelicans would want to decide who is picked at #4 and Lakers would have to construct a trade with enough salary to make it work post FA signings.

One other curve ball is Pelicans might even say AD has to be absorbed into our space on July 1st so that Lakers can't go after another max FA.

Would the trade parameters really change for the Lakers before and after 7/1? It's Ball/#4/Hart/Kuz/Moe/future 1st regardless.


There are two factors that change the parameters.

1) The value of the #4 pick changes if the Lakers are deciding on the player or the team we are trading the pick to chooses the players.

NO might greatly value Culver, but doesn't value Hunter. My guess is NO or another team will have a very strong opinion on who they'd want at #4 and agreeing to the trade before the draft give #4 the most value.

2) The trade construction has be different if the Lakers want first sign a max FA and then complete the trade.

Theoretically the Lakers could just trade the #4 for AD if they didn't want to sign another max FA and NO would agree to it.

If the Lakers want to sign another Max and then trade, they'd have to include Ingram, Ball, Kuzma, #4 (after 30 days) and even more salary just to make the numbers work.


Last edited by LakerMindLA on Wed May 15, 2019 10:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:18 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
I can already see the Ramona article.


"There were some in the organization who were reluctant to do the deal, but Kurt felt the chance to get AD, who could be a future Laker Legend, was too good to pass up and signed off on the trade. This was a big step for Kurt toward becoming the dominant voice in the Lakers' front office."


I wish I knew what was going on in that head of his.
Was he on board with sending every player?
I mean, how many morons can there be in one Front Office?
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:22 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
I can already see the Ramona article.


"There were some in the organization who were reluctant to do the deal, but Kurt felt the chance to get AD, who could be a future Laker Legend, was too good to pass up and signed off on the trade. This was a big step for Kurt toward becoming the dominant voice in the Lakers' front office."


And I can already see the media spin. Allow me to give you the two versions:

Lakers get AD
Woj: "In speaking with several executives around the league, they were shocked at what the Lakers gave up for a player they feel is similar to Kevin Love, racking up stats on average-to-below-average teams and who is best suited for a #2 or even #3 role on a title team."

Windhorst: "David Griffin is the early favorite for Executive Of The Year honors, and he essentially fleeced whomever is running the Lakers in this deal. Lonzo Ball and Jarrett Culver and Kyle Kuzma have incredible potential and now Griffin gets to start his tenure with Zion plus the haul from the Lakers and now he can look to move Jrue for even more assets."

Any other team gets AD
Woj: "What a seismic shift this is in the NBA, for (insert team here) to get a generational big man like Davis, who can spread the floor, fly to the rim in transition, and anchor a defense. Credit (insert executive here) for getting this done, and as for the Lakers, apparently they were asleep at the wheel yet again."

Windhorst: "The Lakers miss the boat yet again, as they refused to part with the likes of Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, and Kyle Kuzma, guys are aren't even sure things and who aren't likely to ever be All-Stars. What a major setback for LeBron James, who I have to imagine is going to ask for a trade."
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:25 pm    Post subject:

LakerMindLA wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
What the Lakers do with #4 will tell us how confident they are with signing a max FA.

If there is no trade agreed to before the draft, the Lakers still feel they can get Kawhi, Kyrie, or Kemba.


It may not be that way. In fact, knowing they have a commit from a top free agent may actually embolden them to become even more aggressive for AD.


It is more so if they agree to trade for say Beal before the draft, it means they aren't confident they can get another star FA.

Even for AD, Pelicans would want to decide who is picked at #4 and Lakers would have to construct a trade with enough salary to make it work post FA signings.

One other curve ball is Pelicans might even say AD has to be absorbed into our space on July 1st so that Lakers can't go after another max FA.

Would the trade parameters really change for the Lakers before and after 7/1? It's Ball/#4/Hart/Kuz/Moe/future 1st regardless.


There are two factors that change the parameters.

1) The value of the #4 pick changes if the Lakers are deciding on the player or the team we are trading the pick to chooses the players.

NO might greatly value Culver, but doesn't value Hunter. My guess is NO or another team will have a very strong opinion on who they'd want at #4 and agreeing to the trade before the draft give #4 the most value.

2) The trade construction has be different if the Lakers want first sign a max FA and then complete the trade.

Theoretically the Lakers could just trade the #4 for AD if they didn't want to sign another max FA and NO would agree to it.

If the Lakers want to sign another Max and then trade, they'd have to include Ingram, Ball, Kuzma, #4 (after 30 days) and even more salary just to make the numbers work.


No they don't. The #4 pick can be signed to 120% of scale, increasing the salary amount there by over $1MM. Jemerrio Jones can be moved. You can do it by keeping one of Lonzo/BI/#4, and maybe even one or both of Kuz/Hart, too. (Note that it would be easier to do it with Ball, since he makes about $1.5MM more than BI next year.)

I'm not saying that the Pels would agree to any deal that doesn't include all 3 of Lonzo/BI/#4 plus at least one of Kuz/Hart, but I'm simply saying that you can get up to enough salary to make the trade work if you were to keep BI and both Kuz/Hart out of it.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:29 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
I can already see the Ramona article.


"There were some in the organization who were reluctant to do the deal, but Kurt felt the chance to get AD, who could be a future Laker Legend, was too good to pass up and signed off on the trade. This was a big step for Kurt toward becoming the dominant voice in the Lakers' front office."


And I can already see the media spin. Allow me to give you the two versions:

Lakers get AD
Woj: "In speaking with several executives around the league, they were shocked at what the Lakers gave up for a player they feel is similar to Kevin Love, racking up stats on average-to-below-average teams and who is best suited for a #2 or even #3 role on a title team."

Windhorst: "David Griffin is the early favorite for Executive Of The Year honors, and he essentially fleeced whomever is running the Lakers in this deal. Lonzo Ball and Jarrett Culver and Kyle Kuzma have incredible potential and now Griffin gets to start his tenure with Zion plus the haul from the Lakers and now he can look to move Jrue for even more assets."

Any other team gets AD
Woj: "What a seismic shift this is in the NBA, for (insert team here) to get a generational big man like Davis, who can spread the floor, fly to the rim in transition, and anchor a defense. Credit (insert executive here) for getting this done, and as for the Lakers, apparently they were asleep at the wheel yet again."

Windhorst: "The Lakers miss the boat yet again, as they refused to part with the likes of Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, and Kyle Kuzma, guys are aren't even sure things and who aren't likely to ever be All-Stars. What a major setback for LeBron James, who I have to imagine is going to ask for a trade."


Nailed it.
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pjiddy
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:32 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
I can already see the Ramona article.


"There were some in the organization who were reluctant to do the deal, but Kurt felt the chance to get AD, who could be a future Laker Legend, was too good to pass up and signed off on the trade. This was a big step for Kurt toward becoming the dominant voice in the Lakers' front office."


And I can already see the media spin. Allow me to give you the two versions:

Lakers get AD
Woj: "In speaking with several executives around the league, they were shocked at what the Lakers gave up for a player they feel is similar to Kevin Love, racking up stats on average-to-below-average teams and who is best suited for a #2 or even #3 role on a title team."

Windhorst: "David Griffin is the early favorite for Executive Of The Year honors, and he essentially fleeced whomever is running the Lakers in this deal. Lonzo Ball and Jarrett Culver and Kyle Kuzma have incredible potential and now Griffin gets to start his tenure with Zion plus the haul from the Lakers and now he can look to move Jrue for even more assets."

Any other team gets AD
Woj: "What a seismic shift this is in the NBA, for (insert team here) to get a generational big man like Davis, who can spread the floor, fly to the rim in transition, and anchor a defense. Credit (insert executive here) for getting this done, and as for the Lakers, apparently they were asleep at the wheel yet again."

Windhorst: "The Lakers miss the boat yet again, as they refused to part with the likes of Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, and Kyle Kuzma, guys are aren't even sure things and who aren't likely to ever be All-Stars. What a major setback for LeBron James, who I have to imagine is going to ask for a trade."


Lol, totally. The only way to get a positive media spin is if they can do the deal without one of Lonzo or Ingram.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:35 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
I can already see the Ramona article.


"There were some in the organization who were reluctant to do the deal, but Kurt felt the chance to get AD, who could be a future Laker Legend, was too good to pass up and signed off on the trade. This was a big step for Kurt toward becoming the dominant voice in the Lakers' front office."


And I can already see the media spin. Allow me to give you the two versions:

Lakers get AD
Woj: "In speaking with several executives around the league, they were shocked at what the Lakers gave up for a player they feel is similar to Kevin Love, racking up stats on average-to-below-average teams and who is best suited for a #2 or even #3 role on a title team."

Windhorst: "David Griffin is the early favorite for Executive Of The Year honors, and he essentially fleeced whomever is running the Lakers in this deal. Lonzo Ball and Jarrett Culver and Kyle Kuzma have incredible potential and now Griffin gets to start his tenure with Zion plus the haul from the Lakers and now he can look to move Jrue for even more assets."

Any other team gets AD
Woj: "What a seismic shift this is in the NBA, for (insert team here) to get a generational big man like Davis, who can spread the floor, fly to the rim in transition, and anchor a defense. Credit (insert executive here) for getting this done, and as for the Lakers, apparently they were asleep at the wheel yet again."

Windhorst: "The Lakers miss the boat yet again, as they refused to part with the likes of Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, and Kyle Kuzma, guys are aren't even sure things and who aren't likely to ever be All-Stars. What a major setback for LeBron James, who I have to imagine is going to ask for a trade."


Lol, totally. The only way to get a positive media spin is if they can do the deal without one of Lonzo or Ingram.


I actually think it's quite plausible that we will be able to do that. But I'm probably too optimistic in my proposal of Lonzo/#4/Wagner/Bonga/Jemerrio Jones and future picks. But I do think that by adding Kuzma in there, or certainly both Kuzma and Hart, that we'd have a strong bid. I don't think it will take all 3 of our best assets (Lonzo/BI/#4), because I don't see who is beating that offer in this marketplace. You never know about a surprise team, and I know yinoma floated an idea of CJ McCollum for AD, but I just don't think that's what Griffin wants to do. I don't think that fits their new timeline with Zion. I think they are going to want to go young and build it back up, not try to compete on the fly. Indiana and San Antonio were trying to still compete on the fly when they traded PG and Kawhi, respectively. They didn't want to just go young and accumulate assets. I believe that Griffin will, however.


Last edited by ChickenStu on Wed May 15, 2019 10:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:35 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
What the Lakers do with #4 will tell us how confident they are with signing a max FA.

If there is no trade agreed to before the draft, the Lakers still feel they can get Kawhi, Kyrie, or Kemba.


It may not be that way. In fact, knowing they have a commit from a top free agent may actually embolden them to become even more aggressive for AD.


It is more so if they agree to trade for say Beal before the draft, it means they aren't confident they can get another star FA.

Even for AD, Pelicans would want to decide who is picked at #4 and Lakers would have to construct a trade with enough salary to make it work post FA signings.

One other curve ball is Pelicans might even say AD has to be absorbed into our space on July 1st so that Lakers can't go after another max FA.

Would the trade parameters really change for the Lakers before and after 7/1? It's Ball/#4/Hart/Kuz/Moe/future 1st regardless.


There are two factors that change the parameters.

1) The value of the #4 pick changes if the Lakers are deciding on the player or the team we are trading the pick to chooses the players.

NO might greatly value Culver, but doesn't value Hunter. My guess is NO or another team will have a very strong opinion on who they'd want at #4 and agreeing to the trade before the draft give #4 the most value.

2) The trade construction has be different if the Lakers want first sign a max FA and then complete the trade.

Theoretically the Lakers could just trade the #4 for AD if they didn't want to sign another max FA and NO would agree to it.

If the Lakers want to sign another Max and then trade, they'd have to include Ingram, Ball, Kuzma, #4 (after 30 days) and even more salary just to make the numbers work.


No they don't. The #4 pick can be signed to 120% of scale, increasing the salary amount there by over $1MM. Jemerrio Jones can be moved. You can do it by keeping one of Lonzo/BI/#4, and maybe even one or both of Kuz/Hart, too. (Note that it would be easier to do it with Ball, since he makes about $1.5MM more than BI next year.)


Need to get to $22m.

What are estimating #4 pick is at 120%?

I have Ball (8.7), Jones (1.4), Kuzma (2) and Hart (1.9) and #4 (7.6m) falling just short to get AD.


Last edited by LakerMindLA on Wed May 15, 2019 10:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:40 pm    Post subject:

All you AD pipe dreamers, dream of some other player if you want your dreams to come true.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:41 pm    Post subject:

LakerMindLA wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
What the Lakers do with #4 will tell us how confident they are with signing a max FA.

If there is no trade agreed to before the draft, the Lakers still feel they can get Kawhi, Kyrie, or Kemba.


It may not be that way. In fact, knowing they have a commit from a top free agent may actually embolden them to become even more aggressive for AD.


It is more so if they agree to trade for say Beal before the draft, it means they aren't confident they can get another star FA.

Even for AD, Pelicans would want to decide who is picked at #4 and Lakers would have to construct a trade with enough salary to make it work post FA signings.

One other curve ball is Pelicans might even say AD has to be absorbed into our space on July 1st so that Lakers can't go after another max FA.

Would the trade parameters really change for the Lakers before and after 7/1? It's Ball/#4/Hart/Kuz/Moe/future 1st regardless.


There are two factors that change the parameters.

1) The value of the #4 pick changes if the Lakers are deciding on the player or the team we are trading the pick to chooses the players.

NO might greatly value Culver, but doesn't value Hunter. My guess is NO or another team will have a very strong opinion on who they'd want at #4 and agreeing to the trade before the draft give #4 the most value.

2) The trade construction has be different if the Lakers want first sign a max FA and then complete the trade.

Theoretically the Lakers could just trade the #4 for AD if they didn't want to sign another max FA and NO would agree to it.

If the Lakers want to sign another Max and then trade, they'd have to include Ingram, Ball, Kuzma, #4 (after 30 days) and even more salary just to make the numbers work.


No they don't. The #4 pick can be signed to 120% of scale, increasing the salary amount there by over $1MM. Jemerrio Jones can be moved. You can do it by keeping one of Lonzo/BI/#4, and maybe even one or both of Kuz/Hart, too. (Note that it would be easier to do it with Ball, since he makes about $1.5MM more than BI next year.)


Need to get to $22m.

What are estimating #4 pick is at 120%?

I have Ball, Jones, Kuzma and Hart and #4 falling just short of enough to get AD.


I laid it all out in a post a few pages back (last night), but I assure you that I have the numbers right. The 120% # for the pick comes in at just over $7MM (I forget the exact total but that's about it). Jones would have to be given a first-year salary of something like $2.33MM, and the rules are that sign-and-trades must be 3 years, though the 2nd and 3rd years can be unguaranteed. If you did Lonzo, #4, Wagner, Bonga, and Jones, you get up to enough salary for the trade to be legal. I believe the salary we have to send out is just a shade under $21.6MM.

Of course, you can replace Jones in this scenario with both Kuzma and Hart and it works, and it's probably a good bet that we would be including at least one future 1st Round pick. There are different scenarios depending on which players are included, but you can potentially keep at least one (or both) of Kuz and Hart if you give Jones enough of an amount to make the money work. Maybe we compromise with them and we get to keep one or both of Kuz/Hart, with the offshoot being that they get an extra future 1st out of it or something.


Last edited by ChickenStu on Wed May 15, 2019 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:43 pm    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
All you AD pipe dreamers, dream of some other player if you want your dreams to come true.


dream of Kawhi

AD feels unlikely
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:45 pm    Post subject:

2019 wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
All you AD pipe dreamers, dream of some other player if you want your dreams to come true.


dream of Kawhi

AD feels unlikely


I'm an optimist and I'm hoping for both. But don't want to trade every young piece to get AD; if that's what it will take to get him, I'd rather just get a max guy and keep the depth and go to war, while still being able to potentially swing a different trade for an All-Star somewhere down the road.

I don't get the posters who are so quick to poo-poo the chances of getting AD. Our chances have gone up significantly since the Lottery results.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:48 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
I can already see the Ramona article.


"There were some in the organization who were reluctant to do the deal, but Kurt felt the chance to get AD, who could be a future Laker Legend, was too good to pass up and signed off on the trade. This was a big step for Kurt toward becoming the dominant voice in the Lakers' front office."


And I can already see the media spin. Allow me to give you the two versions:

Lakers get AD
Woj: "In speaking with several executives around the league, they were shocked at what the Lakers gave up for a player they feel is similar to Kevin Love, racking up stats on average-to-below-average teams and who is best suited for a #2 or even #3 role on a title team."

Windhorst: "David Griffin is the early favorite for Executive Of The Year honors, and he essentially fleeced whomever is running the Lakers in this deal. Lonzo Ball and Jarrett Culver and Kyle Kuzma have incredible potential and now Griffin gets to start his tenure with Zion plus the haul from the Lakers and now he can look to move Jrue for even more assets."

Any other team gets AD
Woj: "What a seismic shift this is in the NBA, for (insert team here) to get a generational big man like Davis, who can spread the floor, fly to the rim in transition, and anchor a defense. Credit (insert executive here) for getting this done, and as for the Lakers, apparently they were asleep at the wheel yet again."

Windhorst: "The Lakers miss the boat yet again, as they refused to part with the likes of Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, and Kyle Kuzma, guys are aren't even sure things and who aren't likely to ever be All-Stars. What a major setback for LeBron James, who I have to imagine is going to ask for a trade."


Lol, totally. The only way to get a positive media spin is if they can do the deal without one of Lonzo or Ingram.


I actually think it's quite plausible that we will be able to do that. But I'm probably too optimistic in my proposal of Lonzo/#4/Wagner/Bonga/Jemerrio Jones and future picks. But I do think that by adding Kuzma in there, or certainly both Kuzma and Hart, that we'd have a strong bid. I don't think it will take all 3 of our best assets (Lonzo/BI/#4), because I don't see who is beating that offer in this marketplace. You never know about a surprise team, and I know yinoma floated an idea of CJ McCollum for AD, but I just don't think that's what Griffin wants to do. I don't think that fits their new timeline with Zion. I think they are going to want to go young and build it back up, not try to compete on the fly. Indiana and San Antonio were trying to still compete on the fly when they traded PG and Kawhi, respectively. They didn't want to just go young and accumulate assets. I believe that Griffin will, however.


Bonga and Wagner are non-assets. I know there's some enthusiasm about Bonga around here, but I don't see it. Sun Yue 1.1. Wagner is a 9th man at best. Every team can offer future picks, so that's basically cancelled out.

So you're offering Ball/#4/Kuzma/Hart. Might get to keep Hart if the trade puts NO over the roster limit.

Compare:

Knicks: Knox/DSJ/Mitchell Robinson/#3/2 future Dallas 1st rounders.

Ball is probably the best prospect here, but Mitchell Robinson would be next. The Knicks have the higher pick and they can offer two more first rounders than we can, first rounders that won't automatically become late 20s picks just by having AD on your team. And Ball's value is mitigated by his reported refusal to play there and the fact he can't play more than 50 games. I don't think we have the slam dunk best offer. Especially since we're in-conference and the Knicks are not.

Clippers: SGA/Shamet/Harrell/Robinson/Heat pick

SGA>>Lonzo Ball.
Shamet/Harrell>Hart/Kuzma (especially if Kuz can't find his shot or learn to defend)
Heat pick could be better than the #4 or at least of equivalent value.

Both offers are close enough for Griffin to drag it out and get the Lakers to cough up Ingram, especially since they couldn't stomach the idea of AD going to the Clippers. Kawhi passing on the Lakers and AD ending up with him on the Clippers, and making a deep playoff run, with a path to the Finals wide open is an absolute nightmare for Jeanie.


Last edited by pjiddy on Wed May 15, 2019 10:51 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:49 pm    Post subject:

I hope Kawhi ain't about the money and winning.

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:50 pm    Post subject:

^
You think Mitchell Robinson has more value than the #4 pick in this draft? No way, man. I know it's a weak draft but still, no.

I would also dispute that SGA is better than Ball, even though he has an extra year of team control and even though he is the better shooter. I suppose some could disagree, sure.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:50 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
What the Lakers do with #4 will tell us how confident they are with signing a max FA.

If there is no trade agreed to before the draft, the Lakers still feel they can get Kawhi, Kyrie, or Kemba.


It may not be that way. In fact, knowing they have a commit from a top free agent may actually embolden them to become even more aggressive for AD.


It is more so if they agree to trade for say Beal before the draft, it means they aren't confident they can get another star FA.

Even for AD, Pelicans would want to decide who is picked at #4 and Lakers would have to construct a trade with enough salary to make it work post FA signings.

One other curve ball is Pelicans might even say AD has to be absorbed into our space on July 1st so that Lakers can't go after another max FA.

Would the trade parameters really change for the Lakers before and after 7/1? It's Ball/#4/Hart/Kuz/Moe/future 1st regardless.


There are two factors that change the parameters.

1) The value of the #4 pick changes if the Lakers are deciding on the player or the team we are trading the pick to chooses the players.

NO might greatly value Culver, but doesn't value Hunter. My guess is NO or another team will have a very strong opinion on who they'd want at #4 and agreeing to the trade before the draft give #4 the most value.

2) The trade construction has be different if the Lakers want first sign a max FA and then complete the trade.

Theoretically the Lakers could just trade the #4 for AD if they didn't want to sign another max FA and NO would agree to it.

If the Lakers want to sign another Max and then trade, they'd have to include Ingram, Ball, Kuzma, #4 (after 30 days) and even more salary just to make the numbers work.


No they don't. The #4 pick can be signed to 120% of scale, increasing the salary amount there by over $1MM. Jemerrio Jones can be moved. You can do it by keeping one of Lonzo/BI/#4, and maybe even one or both of Kuz/Hart, too. (Note that it would be easier to do it with Ball, since he makes about $1.5MM more than BI next year.)


Need to get to $22m.

What are estimating #4 pick is at 120%?

I have Ball, Jones, Kuzma and Hart and #4 falling just short of enough to get AD.


I laid it all out in a post a few pages back (last night), but I assure you that I have the numbers right. The 120% # for the pick comes in at just over $7MM (I forget the exact total but that's about it). Jones would have to be given a first-year salary of something like $2.33MM, and the rules are that sign-and-trades must be 3 years, though the 2nd and 3rd years can be unguaranteed. If you did Lonzo, #4, Wagner, Bonga, and Jones, you get up to enough salary for the trade to be legal. I believe the salary we have to send out is just a shade under $21.6MM.

Of course, you can replace Jones in this scenario with both Kuzma and Hart and it works. There are different scenarios depending on which players are included, but you can potentially keep at least one (or both) of Kuz and Hart if you give Jones enough of an amount to make the money work.


I don't think the Lakers can even discuss a S&T trade option with Jones until after July 1st. He is actually also under contract, so they'd first have to waive him and then do a S&T, which again, probably isn't possible.

My assumption is that NO would want to agree to this deal before the draft so they can decide the pick, so a deal that has to include a S&T is doubtful and likely illegal to even discuss before July 1st.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:51 pm    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:
I hope Kawhi ain't about the money and winning.



We already know he's not about the money. He forced his way out of a team that was going to eventually pay him a supermax.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:51 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
2019 wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
All you AD pipe dreamers, dream of some other player if you want your dreams to come true.


dream of Kawhi

AD feels unlikely


I'm an optimist and I'm hoping for both. But don't want to trade every young piece to get AD; if that's what it will take to get him, I'd rather just get a max guy and keep the depth and go to war, while still being able to potentially swing a different trade for an All-Star somewhere down the road.

I don't get the posters who are so quick to poo-poo the chances of getting AD. Our chances have gone up significantly since the Lottery results.


AD if he really wants to be a Laker can just chill for a year.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:54 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
I hope Kawhi ain't about the money and winning.



We already know he's not about the money. He forced his way out of a team that was going to eventually pay him a supermax.


Toronto can still offer more than us or the Clips.

He will lose more money and more games in the Wild West.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:54 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
I can already see the Ramona article.


"There were some in the organization who were reluctant to do the deal, but Kurt felt the chance to get AD, who could be a future Laker Legend, was too good to pass up and signed off on the trade. This was a big step for Kurt toward becoming the dominant voice in the Lakers' front office."


And I can already see the media spin. Allow me to give you the two versions:

Lakers get AD
Woj: "In speaking with several executives around the league, they were shocked at what the Lakers gave up for a player they feel is similar to Kevin Love, racking up stats on average-to-below-average teams and who is best suited for a #2 or even #3 role on a title team."

Windhorst: "David Griffin is the early favorite for Executive Of The Year honors, and he essentially fleeced whomever is running the Lakers in this deal. Lonzo Ball and Jarrett Culver and Kyle Kuzma have incredible potential and now Griffin gets to start his tenure with Zion plus the haul from the Lakers and now he can look to move Jrue for even more assets."

Any other team gets AD
Woj: "What a seismic shift this is in the NBA, for (insert team here) to get a generational big man like Davis, who can spread the floor, fly to the rim in transition, and anchor a defense. Credit (insert executive here) for getting this done, and as for the Lakers, apparently they were asleep at the wheel yet again."

Windhorst: "The Lakers miss the boat yet again, as they refused to part with the likes of Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, and Kyle Kuzma, guys are aren't even sure things and who aren't likely to ever be All-Stars. What a major setback for LeBron James, who I have to imagine is going to ask for a trade."


Lol, totally. The only way to get a positive media spin is if they can do the deal without one of Lonzo or Ingram.


I actually think it's quite plausible that we will be able to do that. But I'm probably too optimistic in my proposal of Lonzo/#4/Wagner/Bonga/Jemerrio Jones and future picks. But I do think that by adding Kuzma in there, or certainly both Kuzma and Hart, that we'd have a strong bid. I don't think it will take all 3 of our best assets (Lonzo/BI/#4), because I don't see who is beating that offer in this marketplace. You never know about a surprise team, and I know yinoma floated an idea of CJ McCollum for AD, but I just don't think that's what Griffin wants to do. I don't think that fits their new timeline with Zion. I think they are going to want to go young and build it back up, not try to compete on the fly. Indiana and San Antonio were trying to still compete on the fly when they traded PG and Kawhi, respectively. They didn't want to just go young and accumulate assets. I believe that Griffin will, however.


Bonga and Wagner are non-assets. I know there's some enthusiasm about Bonga around here, but I don't see it. Sun Yue 1.1. Wagner is a 9th man at best. Every team can offer future picks, so that's basically cancelled out.

So you're offering Ball/#4/Kuzma/Hart. Might get to keep Hart if the trade puts NO over the roster limit.

Compare:

Knicks: Knox/DSJ/Mitchell Robinson/#3/2 future Dallas 1st rounders.

Ball is probably the best prospect here, but Mitchell Robinson would be next. The Knicks have the higher pick and they can offer two more first rounders than we can, first rounders that won't automatically become late 20s picks just by having AD on your team. And Ball's value is mitigated by his reported refusal to play there and the fact he can't play more than 50 games. I don't think we have the slam dunk best offer. Especially since we're in-conference and the Knicks are not.

Clippers: SGA/Shamet/Harrell/Robinson/Heat pick

SGA>>Lonzo Ball.
Shamet/Harrell>Hart/Kuzma (especially if Kuz can't find his shot or learn to defend)
Heat pick could be better than the #4 or at least of equivalent value.

Both offers are close enough for Griffin to drag it out and get the Lakers to cough up Ingram, especially since they couldn't stomach the idea of AD going to the Clippers. Kawhi passing on the Lakers and AD ending up with him on the Clippers, and making a deep playoff run, with a path to the Finals wide open is an absolute nightmare for Jeanie.

The Lonzo slander is getting ridiculous.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:54 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
^
You think Mitchell Robinson has more value than the #4 pick in this draft? No way, man. I know it's a weak draft but still, no.

I would also dispute that SGA is better than Ball, even though he has an extra year of team control and even though he is the better shooter. I suppose some could disagree, sure.


I was talking about current players. THe knicks #3 pick trumps our #4

In order of player asset value its:

1. SGA
2. Lonzo
3. Mitchell Robinson
4. Knox
5. Shamet
6. Kuzma
7. DSJ
8. Harrell
9. Hart
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:54 pm    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
2019 wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
All you AD pipe dreamers, dream of some other player if you want your dreams to come true.


dream of Kawhi

AD feels unlikely


I'm an optimist and I'm hoping for both. But don't want to trade every young piece to get AD; if that's what it will take to get him, I'd rather just get a max guy and keep the depth and go to war, while still being able to potentially swing a different trade for an All-Star somewhere down the road.

I don't get the posters who are so quick to poo-poo the chances of getting AD. Our chances have gone up significantly since the Lottery results.


AD if he really wants to be a Laker can just chill for a year.


Not if we sign a max guy. We wouldn't have the cap space. I think it's now or never. If we punt cap space yet again on LeBron's second season, I mean, why the hell did we sign him? It's time to sink or swim.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:55 pm    Post subject:

LakerMindLA wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
What the Lakers do with #4 will tell us how confident they are with signing a max FA.

If there is no trade agreed to before the draft, the Lakers still feel they can get Kawhi, Kyrie, or Kemba.


It may not be that way. In fact, knowing they have a commit from a top free agent may actually embolden them to become even more aggressive for AD.


It is more so if they agree to trade for say Beal before the draft, it means they aren't confident they can get another star FA.

Even for AD, Pelicans would want to decide who is picked at #4 and Lakers would have to construct a trade with enough salary to make it work post FA signings.

One other curve ball is Pelicans might even say AD has to be absorbed into our space on July 1st so that Lakers can't go after another max FA.

Would the trade parameters really change for the Lakers before and after 7/1? It's Ball/#4/Hart/Kuz/Moe/future 1st regardless.


There are two factors that change the parameters.

1) The value of the #4 pick changes if the Lakers are deciding on the player or the team we are trading the pick to chooses the players.

NO might greatly value Culver, but doesn't value Hunter. My guess is NO or another team will have a very strong opinion on who they'd want at #4 and agreeing to the trade before the draft give #4 the most value.

2) The trade construction has be different if the Lakers want first sign a max FA and then complete the trade.

Theoretically the Lakers could just trade the #4 for AD if they didn't want to sign another max FA and NO would agree to it.

If the Lakers want to sign another Max and then trade, they'd have to include Ingram, Ball, Kuzma, #4 (after 30 days) and even more salary just to make the numbers work.


No they don't. The #4 pick can be signed to 120% of scale, increasing the salary amount there by over $1MM. Jemerrio Jones can be moved. You can do it by keeping one of Lonzo/BI/#4, and maybe even one or both of Kuz/Hart, too. (Note that it would be easier to do it with Ball, since he makes about $1.5MM more than BI next year.)


Need to get to $22m.

What are estimating #4 pick is at 120%?

I have Ball (8.7), Jones (1.4), Kuzma (2) and Hart (1.9) and #4 (7.6m) falling just short to get AD.

Moe goes out, as well.
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