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USCandLakers
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 Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| eureca wrote: | | Every time I see Luka Doncic had another dominate performance, I curse the Atlanta Hawks for sending him to the West. We will have to deal with him for over a decade and the Mavs will probably be able to build a great team around him in the years to come. |
The Suns passed on him too. We avoided a Booker/Doncic stack.
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LakerLogic
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: | | eureca wrote: | | Every time I see Luka Doncic had another dominate performance, I curse the Atlanta Hawks for sending him to the West. We will have to deal with him for over a decade and the Mavs will probably be able to build a great team around him in the years to come. |
The Suns passed on him too. We avoided a Booker/Doncic stack. |
Suns have the worst scouts in the league by far. They've missed on so many lottery picks. |
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USCandLakers
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | eureca wrote: | | Every time I see Luka Doncic had another dominate performance, I curse the Atlanta Hawks for sending him to the West. We will have to deal with him for over a decade and the Mavs will probably be able to build a great team around him in the years to come. |
The Suns passed on him too. We avoided a Booker/Doncic stack. |
Suns have the worst scouts in the league by far. They've missed on so many lottery picks. |
Young/Booker would have been ridiculous too.
It's better for us that the talent is spread out. Suns could have been one more lotto pick away from being another OKC.
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Let’s be real here.. no one thought Luka would have looked this good at such a young age, even Mavericks legend Dirk Nowitzki thought it would take time for Doncic to get used to the NBA... |
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | Pesci, you have to take into account the human element of this.
AD was involved in getting Cook here. It’s similar to Rondo and AD wanting Cousins here.
Not opposed to Jackson, just think they wouldn’t trade Cook for him. |
But what are you really saying?
It sounds like you're saying that Cook is virtually untradeable.
That's ridiculous. This is not salary dump like the Beat did with Mike Miller when James was there. This is not some scandalous, salacious trade with questionable motives. It's simply a team doing its very best to win a championship.
You are overstating Cook's importance on this team and, more importantly, the place he holds in Anthony Davis (and LeBron James') heart.
The Lakers were waiting for Leonard. They have a short list of guys they could get for the minimum and low-end deals. Davis and James wanted Cook because he they thought he'd fit well as a jumpshooter and a cheap contract. That's all.
I've considered the human element. I think you're drowning in your own lack of nuance here. Cook and Davis' relationship is nothing like his relationship with Cousins or Rondo.
If Janes and Davis have half a brain, you explain to them what this team lacks and how Jackson potwntially fills all the holes. He's a top four pick from a few years back who's been stuck on awful teams in awfull environments. If Davis and James are smart they'd welcome this kid with open arms knowing how much he could help their cause.
When I examine the human element, I see an acquisition of Jackson as galvanizing, not destructive. Context shows me thst this team is loaded with vets. Jackson will be nurtured and guided on the Lakers. The team will rally around him and celebrate every good thing he does.
He'll become a man in this environment, and the men already here will be ever so proud at what they helped build.
Cook for Jackson is a no-brainer.
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | Memphis saves money (2-4 million) in a Jackson for Cook trade.
Are there any other teams likely to offer "more" for a guy as stigmatized as Josh Jackson? Houston?
Y'all can talk negatively about a simple Cook for Jackson deal and espouse the dangers of negatively effecting team chemistry, but just understand the severe need on this team of a guy like Jackson and that many here, including myself mind you, was saying the very same things about Dwight Howard.
Point is: Calculated risks are necessary in life ... building this team is no different.
I'm still waiting on someone to explain to me why losing Cook would be so detrimental to this team's morale.
Somebody has to be cut or traded, even if it is for a young, unproven, upstart with a checkered past. This team can withstand the shadow of Josh Jackson. I promise you that. |
Memphis has too many PGs. They aren’t doing that for Cook even if we ask really nicely. |
Unless they get a better offer, they do this to save money. That's it.
Remember, they're going to lose him anyway. He'll be an UFA.
Cook makes four million less than Jackson.
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Pesci, all I’m saying is this is a Klutch team. Cook is one of AD’s people...
It’s not about it being a no-brainer. Even if it is, good luck convincing a tanking Memphis team that doesn’t need Cook. |
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Carushow
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I remember the Lakers being very high on Doncic before the draft, exploring options to trade for him and such. |
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | Pesci, all I’m saying is this is a Klutch team. Cook is one of AD’s people...
It’s not about it being a no-brainer. Even if it is, good luck convincing a tanking Memphis team that doesn’t need Cook. |
Memphis doesn't like saving money?
Is Cook untradeable from the Lakers?
Be clear.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | Memphis saves money (2-4 million) in a Jackson for Cook trade.
Are there any other teams likely to offer "more" for a guy as stigmatized as Josh Jackson? Houston?
Y'all can talk negatively about a simple Cook for Jackson deal and espouse the dangers of negatively effecting team chemistry, but just understand the severe need on this team of a guy like Jackson and that many here, including myself mind you, was saying the very same things about Dwight Howard.
Point is: Calculated risks are necessary in life ... building this team is no different.
I'm still waiting on someone to explain to me why losing Cook would be so detrimental to this team's morale.
Somebody has to be cut or traded, even if it is for a young, unproven, upstart with a checkered past. This team can withstand the shadow of Josh Jackson. I promise you that. |
Memphis has too many PGs. They aren’t doing that for Cook even if we ask really nicely. |
Unless they get a better offer, they do this to save money. That's it.
Remember, they're going to lose him anyway. He'll be an UFA.
Cook makes four million less than Jackson. |
Wouldn’t Cook still lock up a roster spot and about $3M in cap space for them next year? |
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | Memphis saves money (2-4 million) in a Jackson for Cook trade.
Are there any other teams likely to offer "more" for a guy as stigmatized as Josh Jackson? Houston?
Y'all can talk negatively about a simple Cook for Jackson deal and espouse the dangers of negatively effecting team chemistry, but just understand the severe need on this team of a guy like Jackson and that many here, including myself mind you, was saying the very same things about Dwight Howard.
Point is: Calculated risks are necessary in life ... building this team is no different.
I'm still waiting on someone to explain to me why losing Cook would be so detrimental to this team's morale.
Somebody has to be cut or traded, even if it is for a young, unproven, upstart with a checkered past. This team can withstand the shadow of Josh Jackson. I promise you that. |
Memphis has too many PGs. They aren’t doing that for Cook even if we ask really nicely. |
Unless they get a better offer, they do this to save money. That's it.
Remember, they're going to lose him anyway. He'll be an UFA.
Cook makes four million less than Jackson. |
Wouldn’t Cook still lock up a roster spot and about $3M in cap space for them next year? |
Yes. You're right. Memphis stills saves a little but would have to send him to a third team for an expiring minimum deal to get the full money savings I was mentioning.
You're right though. I was under the faulty assumption that Cook was signed a one year deal, not two.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, if Memphis wanted to save money, they’d probably want to find a way to move Tyus Jones. Under contract for 2 more seasons after this one at about $7.8M per.
They can keep Melton cheap to backup Morant and call it a day. |
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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Thx Pesci...I’m a fan of your movies btw!
I agree that Cook should be on block if it addresses our needs. Frontline/wing depth is more of need than shooting is. If Cook helped with playmaking, he probably is off limits, but so far he’s not a playmaker for us.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Tim_NBA/status/1204284248812904449
The thing about Memphis is they ain’t anywhere near paying a luxury tax, so as a small market team, they could save money swapping those salaries, but it’s no where near the savings they would get if they were in the tax.
Also Cook is a partially guaranteed deal next year that pays him 1m to start the season and then another 2m in January 2021. So we could technically throw 1m at the Griz so that they can waive him and recoup costs on the 2nd year of that deal.
The other thing about Cook is he’s one of the GoodFellas with Bron/AD...he’s a made man that could be valued as a keeper to be our superstar whisperer. I would take a flyer on Josh, but I can’t see Cook as the outgoing piece. Maybe Dudz or Daniels and a 2023 2nd.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHHR9JuX0AIyX4t?format=jpg&name=large
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSoJa6Ad9xn_SDG4_7-qg_8MjE5wVwWPdRCQxmoDMtlrkTcR2n-
Last edited by vasashi17+ on Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | People act as if the buyout market is exclusively all Lakers. Look at where buyout guys went last year. Random teams to be honest. |
Last year the buyouts probably preferred only money or minutes, as the Warriors were virtually crowned champions before the playoffs started.
We'd have very little chance of nabbing Tristan Thompson or a guard, but wings would consider us strongly. There's no role for them on the Clippers, Sixers, Bucks, or Celtics. Rockets maybe, but they already have a wing who can't get regular minutes, even with Eric Gordon out.
I'm all for limiting LeBron's responsibilities when playing the Clippers, but who is he guarding if not Kawhi/PG? Are we starting AD at the 5 in the playoffs and benching our Centers? He could guard PG, as George has been mostly used as a 3-point specialist when Kawhi is on the court. |
PG is a bad matchup for LBJ bc he runs screens and darts around the perimeter off ball. LBJ is actually better suited to guard a guy like KL of the two
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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Upon further research, only 1 milion of Cook's deal is guaranteed for next season.
The Grizzlies save about 3 million in a Jackson for Cook swap, a million more if they are able to offload Cook on a team in need of shooting for a second round pick.
If Jackson isn't in their plans, they have NOTHING to lose in dumping him to save some coin.
If noone else is knocking on their door for Jackson, dumping him for money makes a ton of sense.
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LaLaLakeShow
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Joined: 04 Aug 2019
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | People act as if the buyout market is exclusively all Lakers. Look at where buyout guys went last year. Random teams to be honest. |
Last year the buyouts probably preferred only money or minutes, as the Warriors were virtually crowned champions before the playoffs started.
We'd have very little chance of nabbing Tristan Thompson or a guard, but wings would consider us strongly. There's no role for them on the Clippers, Sixers, Bucks, or Celtics. Rockets maybe, but they already have a wing who can't get regular minutes, even with Eric Gordon out.
I'm all for limiting LeBron's responsibilities when playing the Clippers, but who is he guarding if not Kawhi/PG? Are we starting AD at the 5 in the playoffs and benching our Centers? He could guard PG, as George has been mostly used as a 3-point specialist when Kawhi is on the court. |
PG is a bad matchup for LBJ bc he runs screens and darts around the perimeter off ball. LBJ is actually better suited to guard a guy like KL of the two |
For sure
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | Memphis saves money (2-4 million) in a Jackson for Cook trade.
Are there any other teams likely to offer "more" for a guy as stigmatized as Josh Jackson? Houston?
Y'all can talk negatively about a simple Cook for Jackson deal and espouse the dangers of negatively effecting team chemistry, but just understand the severe need on this team of a guy like Jackson and that many here, including myself mind you, was saying the very same things about Dwight Howard.
Point is: Calculated risks are necessary in life ... building this team is no different.
I'm still waiting on someone to explain to me why losing Cook would be so detrimental to this team's morale.
Somebody has to be cut or traded, even if it is for a young, unproven, upstart with a checkered past. This team can withstand the shadow of Josh Jackson. I promise you that. |
Jackson is worth the risk to me.
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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drae
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Posts: 16144
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | Memphis saves money (2-4 million) in a Jackson for Cook trade.
Are there any other teams likely to offer "more" for a guy as stigmatized as Josh Jackson? Houston?
Y'all can talk negatively about a simple Cook for Jackson deal and espouse the dangers of negatively effecting team chemistry, but just understand the severe need on this team of a guy like Jackson and that many here, including myself mind you, was saying the very same things about Dwight Howard.
Point is: Calculated risks are necessary in life ... building this team is no different.
I'm still waiting on someone to explain to me why losing Cook would be so detrimental to this team's morale.
Somebody has to be cut or traded, even if it is for a young, unproven, upstart with a checkered past. This team can withstand the shadow of Josh Jackson. I promise you that. |
Jackson is worth the risk to me. |
What makes Jackson so good? (Haven't seen him play) |
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | Thx Pesci...I’m a fan of your movies btw!
I agree that Cook should be on block if it addresses our needs. Frontline/wing depth is more of need than shooting is. If Cook helped with playmaking, he probably is off limits, but so far he’s not a playmaker for us.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Tim_NBA/status/1204284248812904449
The thing about Memphis is they ain’t anywhere near paying a luxury tax, so as a small market team, they could save money swapping those salaries, but it’s no where near the savings they would get if they were in the tax.
Also Cook is a partially guaranteed deal next year that pays him 1m to start the season and then another 2m in January 2021. So we could technically throw 1m at the Griz so that they can waive him and recoup costs on the 2nd year of that deal.
The other thing about Cook is he’s one of the GoodFellas with Bron/AD...he’s a made man that could be valued as a keeper to be our superstar whisperer. I would take a flyer on Josh, but I can’t see Cook as the outgoing piece. Maybe Dudz or Daniels and a 2023 2nd.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHHR9JuX0AIyX4t?format=jpg&name=large
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSoJa6Ad9xn_SDG4_7-qg_8MjE5wVwWPdRCQxmoDMtlrkTcR2n- |
Trading Daniels is preferable, but Daniels alone doesn't make enough money. In spite of our pictures, Rondo, Dudley, and Cousins all seem to be the ones who are off limits, not Cook.
But I could be wrong.
If given the chance, I doubt Davis or James veto a Cook for Jackson swap. It just makes too much sense.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | Memphis saves money (2-4 million) in a Jackson for Cook trade.
Are there any other teams likely to offer "more" for a guy as stigmatized as Josh Jackson? Houston?
Y'all can talk negatively about a simple Cook for Jackson deal and espouse the dangers of negatively effecting team chemistry, but just understand the severe need on this team of a guy like Jackson and that many here, including myself mind you, was saying the very same things about Dwight Howard.
Point is: Calculated risks are necessary in life ... building this team is no different.
I'm still waiting on someone to explain to me why losing Cook would be so detrimental to this team's morale.
Somebody has to be cut or traded, even if it is for a young, unproven, upstart with a checkered past. This team can withstand the shadow of Josh Jackson. I promise you that. |
Jackson is worth the risk to me. |
What makes Jackson so good? (Haven't seen him play) |
He isn’t good. But he has the potential to be. |
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | Pesci, all I’m saying is this is a Klutch team. Cook is one of AD’s people...
It’s not about it being a no-brainer. Even if it is, good luck convincing a tanking Memphis team that doesn’t need Cook. |
Memphis doesn't like saving money?
Is Cook untradeable from the Lakers?
Be clear. |
I’m not fighting you 
Memphis has no interest in Cook imo, they will look for picks/other assets.
Cook is not untradeable. It just won’t be for Jackson and it will have to get the ok from Klutch and AD imo. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | Pesci, all I’m saying is this is a Klutch team. Cook is one of AD’s people...
It’s not about it being a no-brainer. Even if it is, good luck convincing a tanking Memphis team that doesn’t need Cook. |
Memphis doesn't like saving money?
Is Cook untradeable from the Lakers?
Be clear. |
I’m not fighting you
Memphis has no interest in Cook imo, they will look for picks/other assets.
Cook is not untradeable. It just won’t be for Jackson and it will have to get the ok from Klutch and AD imo. |
This is my feeling as well. The reason he is pressing Cook is because it makes sense for us so Memphis be damned.
If I were Memphis, and I wanted to move JJ, I would do it for someone I can take a flyer on AND save some money at the same time. Cook is a known quantity. Now if we include THT in the deal, that might make more sense for them. |
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KeepItRealOrElse
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Posts: 32767
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | Memphis saves money (2-4 million) in a Jackson for Cook trade.
Are there any other teams likely to offer "more" for a guy as stigmatized as Josh Jackson? Houston?
Y'all can talk negatively about a simple Cook for Jackson deal and espouse the dangers of negatively effecting team chemistry, but just understand the severe need on this team of a guy like Jackson and that many here, including myself mind you, was saying the very same things about Dwight Howard.
Point is: Calculated risks are necessary in life ... building this team is no different.
I'm still waiting on someone to explain to me why losing Cook would be so detrimental to this team's morale.
Somebody has to be cut or traded, even if it is for a young, unproven, upstart with a checkered past. This team can withstand the shadow of Josh Jackson. I promise you that. |
Jackson is worth the risk to me. |
What makes Jackson so good? (Haven't seen him play) |
he's not good per say.. he's a young player who makes a lot of mistakes from what I've heard.
But his flashes on the defensive side of the ball are special. Reminds me of Laker-Lonzo with the steals and blocks I've seen. IMO he's someone who any given night, can be our best non-AD defender, and possibly our 3rd best playmaker any given night as well, providing juice in how he pushes the ball and passes ----- although he's iffy with the ball in his hands (not cuz a lack of handle, just young guy IQ stuff from a wing trying to create) |
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23788
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | Pesci, all I’m saying is this is a Klutch team. Cook is one of AD’s people...
It’s not about it being a no-brainer. Even if it is, good luck convincing a tanking Memphis team that doesn’t need Cook. |
Memphis doesn't like saving money?
Is Cook untradeable from the Lakers?
Be clear. |
I’m not fighting you
Memphis has no interest in Cook imo, they will look for picks/other assets.
Cook is not untradeable. It just won’t be for Jackson and it will have to get the ok from Klutch and AD imo. |
This is my feeling as well. The reason he is pressing Cook is because it makes sense for us so Memphis be damned.
If I were Memphis, and I wanted to move JJ, I would do it for someone I can take a flyer on AND save some money at the same time. Cook is a known quantity. Now if we include THT in the deal, that might make more sense for them. |
No doubt, and if I’m the Lakers I say no on THT.
It’s not a match right now and I would like Jackson because he is that young wing defender with pedigree, but it’s too much to add THT for a guy with some question marks in character and off court stuff. |
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vasashi17+
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Posts: 5612
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | Thx Pesci...I’m a fan of your movies btw!
I agree that Cook should be on block if it addresses our needs. Frontline/wing depth is more of need than shooting is. If Cook helped with playmaking, he probably is off limits, but so far he’s not a playmaker for us.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Tim_NBA/status/1204284248812904449
The thing about Memphis is they ain’t anywhere near paying a luxury tax, so as a small market team, they could save money swapping those salaries, but it’s no where near the savings they would get if they were in the tax.
Also Cook is a partially guaranteed deal next year that pays him 1m to start the season and then another 2m in January 2021. So we could technically throw 1m at the Griz so that they can waive him and recoup costs on the 2nd year of that deal.
The other thing about Cook is he’s one of the GoodFellas with Bron/AD...he’s a made man that could be valued as a keeper to be our superstar whisperer. I would take a flyer on Josh, but I can’t see Cook as the outgoing piece. Maybe Dudz or Daniels and a 2023 2nd.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHHR9JuX0AIyX4t?format=jpg&name=large
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSoJa6Ad9xn_SDG4_7-qg_8MjE5wVwWPdRCQxmoDMtlrkTcR2n- |
Trading Daniels is preferable, but Daniels alone doesn't make enough money. In spite of our pictures, Rondo, Dudley, and Cousins all seem to be the ones who are off limits, not Cook.
But I could be wrong.
If given the chance, I doubt Davis or James veto a Cook for Jackson swap. It just makes too much sense. |
I agree bro. You make the deal if it makes sense.
But upon a further look, the problem is the cents. We need a minimum of 4m in outgoing salary to bring in JJ’s 7.1m deal. Cook makes 3m, so we need to add Daniels or Dudz at a minimum to Cook. I would still entertain it cause it’s a 2 for 1 and it opens up a roster spot for someone like Iggy/Jae down the line. Btw I can’t believe Memphis has all these wing targets for us and we got Dwight/Av from then too.
It would have to be McGee’s 4m deal for a straight up 1 for 1 deal. In that case, I probably would wait on JJ becoming a buyout candidate before we give him a look. Memphis throw us another bone please. Haha |
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