Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 7844 Location: Orange County
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Florida Man Won’t Be Charged in Fatal Shooting Under ‘Stand Your Ground’ Law
Omar Little wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
This is a subject that's been discussed ad hominem since the death of Trayvon Martin.
In this particular case I think I'm being objective because of the video. It looks as though Markeis McGlockton (shover) was backing away at the sight of Michael Drejka (shooters) gun. The law says you should be in fear of your life. IMO the sight of the gun removed that threat.
I think Drejka should be charged with at least involuntary manslaughter.
I don’t think that you or I are qualified to know what he fears and doesn’t fear. That is why the law was written as it was.
I'm not even a lawyer and I know that's not how it works.
That is how it works, I deal with laws and regulations daily. They are written with purpose, most are written so that a regulator can interpret it to fit their opinions. One jurisdiction sees it one way, another sees it differently.
Sounds like you got your law degree at the same school where you studied climate science?
University of Phoenix? _________________ Don't let perfect be the enemy of good
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35750 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:42 am Post subject:
One of the things I find most puzzling about the Zimmerman case is why the prosecution didn't file a manslaughter charge as well. I actually think that the murder charge verdict was much more complicated than the media portrayed it...
Zimmerman was responsible for Trayvon's death because he instigated a conflict after being overtly instructed by the police not to. My guess is that he tried to "arrest" Trayvon or just didn't back off when told to. However, because he [Zimmerman] was punched, what he did seems closer to voluntary manslaughter than second degree murder.
You have to wonder if the prosecution, specifically Angela Corey, intentionally threw the case. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52624 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:50 am Post subject: Re: Florida Man Won’t Be Charged in Fatal Shooting Under ‘Stand Your Ground’ Law
venturalakersfan wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
This is a subject that's been discussed ad hominem since the death of Trayvon Martin.
In this particular case I think I'm being objective because of the video. It looks as though Markeis McGlockton (shover) was backing away at the sight of Michael Drejka (shooters) gun. The law says you should be in fear of your life. IMO the sight of the gun removed that threat.
I think Drejka should be charged with at least involuntary manslaughter.
I don’t think that you or I are qualified to know what he fears and doesn’t fear. That is why the law was written as it was.
I'm not even a lawyer and I know that's not how it works.
That is how it works, I deal with laws and regulations daily. They are written with purpose, most are written so that a regulator can interpret it to fit their opinions. One jurisdiction sees it one way, another sees it differently.
It's not. And whether you deal with laws and regulations everyday doesn't make it so. I also know that geologists working for petroleum companies don't have some special understanding off criminal law. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52624 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:51 am Post subject:
CandyCanes wrote:
One of the things I find most puzzling about the Zimmerman case is why the prosecution didn't file a manslaughter charge as well. I actually think that the murder charge verdict was much more complicated than the media portrayed it...
Zimmerman was responsible for Trayvon's death because he instigated a conflict after being overtly instructed by the police not to. My guess is that he tried to "arrest" Trayvon or just didn't back off when told to. However, because he [Zimmerman] was punched, what he did seems closer to voluntary manslaughter than second degree murder.
You have to wonder if the prosecution, specifically Angela Corey, intentionally threw the case.
The Zimmerman case got discussed here to great extent in its own thread. Let's not rehash it in this one. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
One of the things I find most puzzling about the Zimmerman case is why the prosecution didn't file a manslaughter charge as well. I actually think that the murder charge verdict was much more complicated than the media portrayed it...
Zimmerman was responsible for Trayvon's death because he instigated a conflict after being overtly instructed by the police not to. My guess is that he tried to "arrest" Trayvon or just didn't back off when told to. However, because he [Zimmerman] was punched, what he did seems closer to voluntary manslaughter than second degree murder.
You have to wonder if the prosecution, specifically Angela Corey, intentionally threw the case.
The Zimmerman case got discussed here to great extent in its own thread. Let's not rehash it in this one.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35750 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:59 am Post subject:
DaMuleRules wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
One of the things I find most puzzling about the Zimmerman case is why the prosecution didn't file a manslaughter charge as well. I actually think that the murder charge verdict was much more complicated than the media portrayed it...
Zimmerman was responsible for Trayvon's death because he instigated a conflict after being overtly instructed by the police not to. My guess is that he tried to "arrest" Trayvon or just didn't back off when told to. However, because he [Zimmerman] was punched, what he did seems closer to voluntary manslaughter than second degree murder.
You have to wonder if the prosecution, specifically Angela Corey, intentionally threw the case.
The Zimmerman case got discussed here to great extent in its own thread. Let's not rehash it in this one.
My bad. Anyway, I don't think this one is nearly as complex or ambiguous as the Zimmerman case. IMO shoving someone to the ground like that is assault, but it's not enough for a reasonable person to fear for his/her life. I don't see how this isn't murder. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52624 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:06 am Post subject:
CandyCanes wrote:
IMO shoving someone to the ground like that is assault, but it's not enough for a reasonable person to fear for his/her life. I don't see how this isn't murder.
Agree completely. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Florida Man Won’t Be Charged in Fatal Shooting Under ‘Stand Your Ground’ Law
Omar Little wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
This is a subject that's been discussed ad hominem since the death of Trayvon Martin.
In this particular case I think I'm being objective because of the video. It looks as though Markeis McGlockton (shover) was backing away at the sight of Michael Drejka (shooters) gun. The law says you should be in fear of your life. IMO the sight of the gun removed that threat.
I think Drejka should be charged with at least involuntary manslaughter.
I don’t think that you or I are qualified to know what he fears and doesn’t fear. That is why the law was written as it was.
I'm not even a lawyer and I know that's not how it works.
That is how it works, I deal with laws and regulations daily. They are written with purpose, most are written so that a regulator can interpret it to fit their opinions. One jurisdiction sees it one way, another sees it differently.
Sounds like you got your law degree at the same school where you studied climate science?
Again I deal with it daily. LA County sees the regulations one way, Ventura County differently, Kings County differently. You can think it isn’t like that, but you would be wrong. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13811 Location: Boulder ;)
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:19 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Not so, says the NRA's Marion Hammer, who lobbied Florida legislators to pass the Stand Your Ground law in 2005 and strengthen its protections for defendants in 2017. "Nothing in either the 2005 law or the 2017 law prohibits a Sheriff from making an arrest in a case where a person claims self-defense if there is probable cause that the use of force was unlawful," Hammer told Politico.
He will be charged soon is my bet. By Friday in custody.
If there is any credible proof he tried to be the handicap parking space cop previously and got into verbal fights with people at that same place then he is a serious threat to anyone he is near.
This lady needs to call for stand your ground law to cover her ass if he can
Quote:
The attack, which took place July 4 as Rodriguez took his regular walk around his Los Angeles neighborhood, was sparked because Rodriguez accidentally bumped into Jones’ toddler, according to a witness.
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: Florida Man Won’t Be Charged in Fatal Shooting Under ‘Stand Your Ground’ Law
venturalakersfan wrote:
Again I deal with it daily. LA County sees the regulations one way, Ventura County differently, Kings County differently. You can think it isn’t like that, but you would be wrong.
On the very narrow point that you are making in this comment, you are correct. Regulations can be interpreted differently in different jurisdictions. There is usually a court case or a major administrative ruling that resolves the conflicts, but sometimes that doesn't happen.
But stand your ground is not an administrative regulation. Different prosecutors in different places may make different decisions about what kinds of cases they will prosecute. That's just prosecutorial discretion. I live in Harris County, and the prosecutors here decided to stop taking misdemeanor pot cases to court. That didn't change the law. The next DA could start seeking prison sentences again.
With respect to stand your ground, the use of "reasonably" makes it an objective standard everywhere in Florida. It does not become a subjective standard just because the local sheriff thinks it is. If a local prosecutor decides not to bring the case, then the state prosecutor may be able to step in and bring the case. This varies from state to state, but I won't be surprised if this guy winds up getting charged.
Back when I used to carry, I was taught two really good rules about self defense:
1. The vast majority of self defense is prevention. Use care in entering situations that would elevate your risk, and always seek the way out that causes the least physical harm, which includes walking away from verbal altercations. Never fight any battle that doesn’t have to be fought.
2. Carrying a weapon requires you to be more vigilant about rule one, not less, despite the natural inclination to feel the opposite. When you carry, you carry more than a gun. You carry responsibility for the lives of strangers. Not only shouldnusing your gun be a last resort, it should be an only resort, and only after you took all preventative measures.
When I gave up carrying, I was struck by how hard it was to follow rule two. I found myself avoiding places and behaviors from my carry days as I adjusted to not feeling I had an “answer” to a confrontation.
The stand your ground law is designed to protect people who scoff at these rules.
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:59 am Post subject:
adkindo wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Short answer: The sheriff is misinterpreting the law. The standard is objective, not subjective, Did the shooter reasonably fear imminent bodily harm? I would say no.
in the end, not sure it matters.....the State Attorney makes the final decision on charges, correct?
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