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thumpinghead Star Player
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 5657
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:43 am Post subject: Orlando Assistant GM Says No Odom For Francis Deal |
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On Saturday, Otis Smith said there had been no trade talks between the Magic and the Lakers in the Florida Today.
As a Laker fan, I am so sick of seeing Lamar (who gets paid all-star money) play below expectation. Now in Odom's second year, I don't see Lamar and Kobe ever playing well together. Kobe makes his teamates better by demanding double teams and creating open looks. Kobe needs outside shooters, or finishers around the basket, not players who prefer to pass like Lamar.
Even when the Laker's played good Defense, they still lacked players who can finish other then Kobe. Fisher, Horry, Rush and even JJ could finish better then Sasha, Smush and Walton. Lets get Kobe some help, come on Mitch... _________________ Kevin Love. 2015. |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:45 am Post subject: |
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Duh
Who ever believed that Francis was going to become a Laker inplace of Odom is just silly.
There is no Phil Jackson team in the history of his career that has had a PG like Francis.
His SF's always are his primary initiators or point guards.
Pippen. KuKoc.
Bryant. Odom.
Marbury's, Francis' and Iverson's would never be Phil Jackson PG's. |
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Aphex Twin Starting Rotation
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 850
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:46 am Post subject: |
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There's already a thread on this. |
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Aussiesuede Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 10964
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:47 am Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | Duh
Who ever believed that Francis was going to become a Laker inplace of Odom is just silly.
There is no Phil Jackson team in the history of his career that has had a PG like Francis.
His SF's always are his primary initiators or point guards.
Pippen. KuKoc.
Bryant. Odom.
Marbury's, Francis' and Iverson's would never be Phil Jackson PG's. |
Point guard??? I though they wanted to bring in Francis to play power forward? _________________ I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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DaggerInTheHeart Star Player
Joined: 06 Feb 2006 Posts: 1459 Location: Sunshine State
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:48 am Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | His SF's always are his primary initiators or point guards.
Pippen. KuKoc.
Bryant. Odom. |
And we are sure having so much Sucess with Odom being the initiator right? |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:52 am Post subject: |
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DaggerInTheHeart wrote: | wolfpaclaker wrote: | His SF's always are his primary initiators or point guards.
Pippen. KuKoc.
Bryant. Odom. |
And we are sure having so much Sucess with Odom being the initiator right? |
Huh?
He's averaging 5+ assists and allowing Bryant to be a pure scorer like Jordan was.
Get this team a Grant or Rodman in their primes as well as some of the money shooters they had, and at the same time revert the rules back to the way they were in the 90's and this team wins a ton of more games too.
Try being honest with yourself and fair for once instead of blaming one player for everything.
Just like ESPN/Media does with Kobe, you are with LO. Totally unfair. |
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thumpinghead Star Player
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 5657
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:55 am Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | DaggerInTheHeart wrote: | wolfpaclaker wrote: | His SF's always are his primary initiators or point guards.
Pippen. KuKoc.
Bryant. Odom. |
And we are sure having so much Sucess with Odom being the initiator right? |
Huh?
He's averaging 5+ assists and allowing Bryant to be a pure scorer like Jordan was.
Get this team a Grant or Rodman in their primes as well as some of the money shooters they had, and at the same time revert the rules back to the way they were in the 90's and this team wins a ton of more games too.
Try being honest with yourself and fair for once instead of blaming one player for everything.
Just like ESPN/Media does with Kobe, you are with LO. Totally unfair. |
PF: K Brown, Odom, Cook, Turiaf
Looks good actually at PF.... _________________ Kevin Love. 2015. |
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DaggerInTheHeart Star Player
Joined: 06 Feb 2006 Posts: 1459 Location: Sunshine State
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | Huh?
He's averaging 5+ assists and allowing Bryant to be a pure scorer like Jordan was. |
No one is talking about his stat's but he rarely has any impact on the outcome of the game he actually helps us lose then helps us win games.
wolfpaclaker wrote: | Get this team a Grant or Rodman in their primes as well as some of the money shooters they had, and at the same time revert the rules back to the way they were in the 90's and this team wins a ton of more games too. |
They never had any good players besides Jordan-Pippen-Grant. they had players who had the will to win something this team lacks bad i mean we have a guy who always loves to make us lose thats enough to the reason on my own prospective.
wolfpaclaker wrote: | Try being honest with yourself and fair for once instead of blaming one player for everything. |
I blame, Mitch for surrounding Kobe with NBDL players but yeah...
wolfpaclaker wrote: |
Just like ESPN/Media does with Kobe, you are with LO. Totally unfair. |
Really? so what people do to Odom is unfair? then halleujah wolf let's all praise Odom for his good ways of losing us games in the final stretch when the game is already in the bag? you give to much credit for your own players. |
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62 Starting Rotation
Joined: 22 Dec 2005 Posts: 656
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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Think of the spacing with Francis and Turkoglu...you can't leave those guys open. _________________ Agent 62 |
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numero-ocho Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 18191 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | ames too.
Try being honest with yourself and fair for once instead of blaming one player for everything.
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I think that's a bigger pipe dream than KG.
If the Lakers had gotten Francis he'd be the new scapegoat if he didn't have as big an impact as they believe. All the people who supported this trade would then flame Kupchak for not getting more for Odom.
Let's just be glad this insanity was yet another groundless rumor and let this thread sink to the previous pages already. |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | No one is talking about his stat's but he rarely has any impact on the outcome of the game he actually helps us lose then helps us win games. |
That's the biggest double standard ever.
So he had a really bad play in Sacramento and maybe 2-3 others this season in the final minutes. Yet, I know of only 1 game (Sacto) where it was exclusively his decision making that started the downfall.
The team has lost 7 games where they are tied or have a lead in the final minute.
Only 1 of those losses is purely on Odom. The rest of them are a team thing. A team thing including Kobe taking bad shots, Lakers executing poorly on offense and defense.
Quote: | They never had any good players besides Jordan-Pippen-Grant. they had players who had the will to win something this team lacks bad i mean we have a guy who always loves to make us lose thats enough to the reason on my own prospective |
What bull.
Armstrong is way better than Parker.
Paxon was a way better shooter than Vujacic.
2nd 3 peat - Kukoc was way better than anyone on this team minus Bryant and Odom. Kerr was a money shooter that won 2 rings after the Bulls.
So please. The rosters aren't that comparable. Kobe is the only player that's as good as a player on the other team. Odom's between Kukoc and Pippen (not as good as Pippen but better than Kukoc)
Again - How's the rosters comparable?
Quote: | I blame, Mitch for surrounding Kobe with NBDL players but yeah |
Lakers are re-building. They were looking to win championships.
Big difference.
Quote: | Really? so what people do to Odom is unfair? then halleujah wolf let's all praise Odom for his good ways of losing us games in the final stretch when the game is already in the bag? you give to much credit for your own players |
Certain people - yes.
Odom credit? Apart from rebounding and allowing Kobe to be a pure scorer - I give Odom credit for nothing. I have never said he's more than that for this team. |
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RG73 Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2001 Posts: 11508
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | He's averaging 5+ assists |
You say that like it is impressive. Puts him around 25th in the league and below Francis.
Quote: | and allowing Bryant to be a pure scorer like Jordan was. |
You keep using this argument but it never becomes any more valid.
ANYONE who can dribble the ball down the court and make the initial pass of the offense would "allow" for Kobe to be on the wing. That's the difference--Kobe doesn't have to dribble down, make the first pass, then come back and get the pass later in the offense with time running down. Lamar is not making Kobe's life easier by being a great play maker.
When Sasha initiates he makes Kobe's life easier. When Smush does it, ditto. There is no specific thing or skill Lamar brings that makes it easier for Kobe. When you add in that he's not a scoring threat, that allows the defense to cheat off of him and crowd Kobe even more. Insofar as he can't be an effective #2, he actually makes life harder than it ought to be for Kobe.
And you watch the games, you know better. Lamar's initiating of late consists of dribbling over half court, getting the deer in the headlights look because he doesn't know what to do next and then passing to Kobe 30 feet out when he's swarmed by 2 or 3 defenders.
Quote: | Get this team a Grant or Rodman in their primes as well as some of the money shooters they had, and at the same time revert the rules back to the way they were in the 90's and this team wins a ton of more games too. |
Well rules back to the 90s and Kobe averages 45. And if we're going to play the little time machine game, just get me Magic and Kareem with Kobe and call it a day.
Quote: | Try being honest with yourself and fair for once instead of blaming one player for everything. |
I pretty much blame every player.
Quote: | Just like ESPN/Media does with Kobe, you are with LO. Totally unfair. |
Awwww, poor Lamar's feelings are hurt. So much so that his agent has to make up a story about him not being shopped. Awwww. Cry me a river. The guy clears 6 figures a game--I think he can stand a little criticism. Are you going to start a jihad here and start burning effigies of me and bounty because we made fun of Lamar? |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | You say that like it is impressive. Puts him around 25th in the league and below Francis |
For a starting SF?
It is. Probably the best in the league (or atleast one of) at PF/SF in that category.
Quote: | You keep using this argument but it never becomes any more valid.
ANYONE who can dribble the ball down the court and make the initial pass of the offense would "allow" for Kobe to be on the wing. That's the difference--Kobe doesn't have to dribble down, make the first pass, then come back and get the pass later in the offense with time running down. Lamar is not making Kobe's life easier by being a great play maker.
When Sasha initiates he makes Kobe's life easier. When Smush does it, ditto. There is no specific thing or skill Lamar brings that makes it easier for Kobe. When you add in that he's not a scoring threat, that allows the defense to cheat off of him and crowd Kobe even more. Insofar as he can't be an effective #2, he actually makes life harder than it ought to be for Kobe.
And you watch the games, you know better. Lamar's initiating of late consists of dribbling over half court, getting the deer in the headlights look because he doesn't know what to do next and then passing to Kobe 30 feet out when he's swarmed by 2 or 3 defenders. |
There's a difference.
Odom actually knows how to pass. Ask Mike or anyone with ball knowledge and they will tell you the difference in the level of passing of a Lamar Odom and a Sasha Vujacic/Smush Parker.
It's not even close. Odom isn't an elite PG - But he is an elite passing forward. That's the problem with you. You compare him in points with a SF (Lewis) but then in assists with a PG.
Complete double standrad from the LO hate club.
Quote: | Well rules back to the 90s and Kobe averages 45. And if we're going to play the little time machine game, just get me Magic and Kareem with Kobe and call it a day. |
Why do you butt into everything and twist it around?
That wasn't about you - It was in response to why the Lakers aren't as good or so much better.
They have limited help at other spots that elite teams have a ton of help in.
Quote: | Awwww, poor Lamar's feelings are hurt. So much so that his agent has to make up a story about him not being shopped. Awwww. Cry me a river. The guy clears 6 figures a game--I think he can stand a little criticism. Are you going to start a jihad here and start burning effigies of me and bounty because we made fun of Lamar |
No, but you are haters. Don't like it? Don't want to admit it? Fine go ahead and live in that world where you can't do anything but hate.
But we'll see who gets the last laugh. The Lakers - or you with your constant hating/whining, pissing and moaning abouy EVERYTHING Lakers. |
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Sage_10 Star Player
Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Posts: 6668
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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Thank God the Lakers came to their senses. |
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