LakersGround.net :: View topic - Official General 2019 NBA Draft Talk Thread (Lakers Get 46th Pick/Talen Horton-Tucker, Sign Cacok, Norvell, Caroline)

Official General 2019 NBA Draft Talk Thread (Lakers Get 46th Pick/Talen Horton-Tucker, Sign Cacok, Norvell, Caroline)
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Sentient Meat
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:02 am Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

^ The point is that you advocated for non-shooters like Howard and Rondo (who was not "fine" at all) in free agency while freaking out about immediate shooting contributions from rookies in order to compete with the Warriors. That's totally ass backwards.

No, this is more like I chose to reinforce the chassis and the steering with Dwight and Rondo, yet wanting to draft and sign more horsepower (the shooters)

Baron Von Humongous
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:02 am Post subject:

Practice wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

^ I want some consistency. LG.com is in universal agreement that the Lakers need more shooting, but Sentient is acting like he's Dr. Thomas Stockmann over here.

Thank you Dennis Miller, but you might want to update your references and use something like Martin Brody which at least has a slight hope of being caught by a 21st century poster.

Dwight fulfilled the need of providing some interior defense and rebounding.

Rondo had a winning record as the backup point guard

Would still recommend them for those respective roles.

Were they shooters, of course not... but Rondo shot at an improved level and replaced a skillset that was essential. Same would apply to Dwight had we signed him.

There were still four to five other positions that could have been filled with shooters.

Rondo has been bad since he got hurt in Boston and has been getting by on reputation for years.

By RPM he was 91 out of 102 PGs who logged minutes this past season. Dude was bad.
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Sentient Meat
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:09 am Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

Practice wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

^ I want some consistency. LG.com is in universal agreement that the Lakers need more shooting, but Sentient is acting like he's Dr. Thomas Stockmann over here.

Rondo has been bad since he got hurt in Boston and has been getting by on reputation for years.

By RPM he was 91 out of 102 PGs who logged minutes this past season. Dude was bad.

I don't want him to be anything more than Lonzo's backup. If Caruso picks up where he left off... we probably don't need him but I'd still like him for the playoffs next year.

If we trade Lonzo, then yes we need someone better.

We had a winning record with Rondo as the backup.

To be clear I also like Clarke.

All I've said is that we need to add scoring and shooting.

I don't get why this is so controversial.

Baron Von Humongous
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:10 am Post subject:

lakerfanaticPT wrote:

Clarke helps other areas, i.e. the stupidity of the Lakers trading Nance because they had Randle and then letting Randle walk for zip. Ugh. Clarke replaces that and we need that. Clarke had the 2nd highest PER in college this year and would be awesome at 11. Free agency for a shooter or a second round pick to pick up a shooter ala Svi.

He posted a .700 TS% and did so through impeccable touch on floaters, hooks, etc. along with all the dunks.
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Baron Von Humongous
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:13 am Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

No, this is more like I chose to reinforce the chassis and the steering with Dwight and Rondo, yet wanting to draft and sign more horsepower (the shooters)

Going along with this tortured analogy, they specifically drafted "horsepower" and the engine stalled before it got out of the garage.
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Sentient Meat
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:14 am Post subject:

If Clarke truly becomes a shot blocking hybrid of Julius and Larry... 15 points 8 rebounds and 2 blocks every game... then I suppose you can't argue... But then one asks, if that were true, why is he there at 11?

Sentient Meat
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:15 am Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

No, this is more like I chose to reinforce the chassis and the steering with Dwight and Rondo, yet wanting to draft and sign more horsepower (the shooters)

Going along with this tortured analogy, they specifically drafted "horsepower" and the engine stalled before it got out of the garage.

Shamet was the horsepower I ordered. Never mentioned Moe once during draft season. Would have been quite happy developing Shamet and Svi.

Baron Von Humongous
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:25 am Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:

If Clarke truly becomes a shot blocking hybrid of Julius and Larry... 15 points 8 rebounds and 2 blocks every game... then I suppose you can't argue...

But then one asks, if that were true, why is he there at 11?

Because GMs are often dumb.
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Baron Von Humongous
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:28 am Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

No, this is more like I chose to reinforce the chassis and the steering with Dwight and Rondo, yet wanting to draft and sign more horsepower (the shooters)

Going along with this tortured analogy, they specifically drafted "horsepower" and the engine stalled before it got out of the garage.

Shamet was the horsepower I ordered. Never mentioned Moe once during draft season. Would have been quite happy developing Shamet and Svi.

I hope the Lakers draft Tyler Herro then so you can shut up.
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Sentient Meat
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:28 am Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Because GMs are often dumb.

lol... I see what you did there.

It's an interesting paradox/conundrum

Draft gurus all say the draft is weak and pathetic.

Yet a gem like Clarke who will play like a Julius/Nance hybrid with blocking ability is sitting there for us at 11.

Mind blown.

Practice
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:33 am Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Because GMs are often dumb.

That happens with pretty much every weak draft. Some players end up being better than people expected and because expectations are so low.

Baron Von Humongous
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:35 am Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

No, this is more like I chose to reinforce the chassis and the steering with Dwight and Rondo, yet wanting to draft and sign more horsepower (the shooters)

Going along with this tortured analogy, they specifically drafted "horsepower" and the engine stalled before it got out of the garage.

Shamet was the horsepower I ordered. Never mentioned Moe once during draft season. Would have been quite happy developing Shamet and Svi.

I hope the Lakers draft Tyler Herro then so you can shut up.

The Lakers should've drafted Jamal Murray over your boy Ingram.
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Sentient Meat
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:36 am Post subject:

Practice wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Because GMs are often dumb.

That happens with pretty much every weak draft. Some players end up being better than people expected and because expectations are so low.

I'm just playing... however, if Clarke really will be that productive... (and I can see that happen considering his TS and PER) I'm confused as to how the draft can be that weak.

Both things seem like they can't be true.

I can see someone like Garland panning out... or Bol... PJ...

If you have that many players becoming productive pros... is the draft really that weak?

Or is it just like any other draft?

Baron Von Humongous
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:37 am Post subject:

Practice wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Because GMs are often dumb.

That happens with pretty much every weak draft. Some players end up being better than people expected and because expectations are so low.

Landry Shamet lasted until pick #26. The Clippers drafted Jerome Robinson at #13. The same decisionmakers passed on Landry for Robinson, yet Shamet is the one earning meaningful minutes in a playoff game.

Makes ya think.
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Sentient Meat
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:40 am Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

No, this is more like I chose to reinforce the chassis and the steering with Dwight and Rondo, yet wanting to draft and sign more horsepower (the shooters)

Going along with this tortured analogy, they specifically drafted "horsepower" and the engine stalled before it got out of the garage.

Shamet was the horsepower I ordered. Never mentioned Moe once during draft season. Would have been quite happy developing Shamet and Svi.

I hope the Lakers draft Tyler Herro then so you can shut up.

The Lakers should've drafted Jamal Murray over your boy Ingram.

lol... I like Murray (though I still prefer Ingram)

lakerfanaticPT
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Posts: 1572

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:57 am Post subject:

Unfortunately for the Lakers, health has been the biggest obstacle. If, they hated word if, Lonzo and BI stayed healthy for the last two years the dialogue on hear and the league would be different. We, as Laker fans can only pray that next year we get lucky in that area and show the youngins off. Also Hart, he was banged up most of the year. Just very unfortunate

Eindhoven
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Posts: 1930
Location: Zürich

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:28 pm Post subject:

Practice wrote:

Eindhoven wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

Eindhoven wrote:

It's unreal to expect we'll always the draft player available, in hindsight. I hope Moe becomes a decent rotation player, which is expected of a late 1st rounder, but I'm not optimistic.

I'm some schlub on the internet who fills the void with overanalyzing young basketball players, but even I could see the value at #25 in the 2018 draft wasn't face-up bigs and that Wagner/Spellman would be reaches in the late-1st. Given how the actual draft went, I would've selected one of Melton (bad on offense in limited minutes, but better overall and younger than Moe), Robert Williams (impactful in limited minutes), or Mitchell Robinson at #25 and I would've had a 3-for-3 chance of getting the Lakers a better, younger player.

It was a good draft projection year for me - I would've taken Jonah Bolden over Kuz in 2017 as a glaring sign of my prognosticative fallibility overall - but I just don't see how the Lakers saw the shotblocking big talent at #5, compared it to the available floor-spacing big talent, and didn't just close their eyes and stubbornly draft for need.

I get it. What I mean is that Moe doesn't seem to be a good pick regardless the competition. I know every draft is different, but I have some expectations depending on where you pick:
#1-5: potential star
#6-15: potential starter
#16-30: potential rotation player
2nd round: roster filler

Considering Moe was already a Junior, his upside is not great and I don't see an NBA player there. FWIW, even Svi was a better pick.

We knew from the beginning that Wagner needed to get stronger and we’ll see what improvements he makes to his shot this offseason.

I really hope he improves, I like the guy and the energy he brings.
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Mike@LG
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:39 pm Post subject:

Eindhoven wrote:

It's unreal to expect we'll always the draft player available, in hindsight.

Why?
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Mike@LG
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:40 pm Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:

Mike@LG wrote:

2019 wrote:

Mike@LG wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

I think guys who are good at basketball will actually show you that they're good at basketball. Revolutionary thinking on my part, I know.

KPJ was not good at basketball this past year.

Bol has way more feel to the game.

My problem is getting him on the court, and making him stay there.

Sit him rookie season and just work on his body?

I had mentioned in a previous post, I'm all for that. If you're going to take on a project, go the 76ers route and have the dude take a year off, make an NBA body and change his shot.

Unfortunately, we don't have a PBO, a player development coach that uses that kind of method, or a training staff.

For those things alone, it's not even a good career move for Bol Bol to go to the Lakers.

I wonder if he's got a history of foot problems or if it's just an anomalous stress fracture. Also, if the fracture was relatively minor and he was pulled merely to heal it before it broke. Is he a Trevor Ariza case or a Bill Walton case? And if we do draft him, is it a good idea for him to gain a bunch of mass? We've been there with Bynum and though he had knee problems, I don't think the bulk provided more benefit to him than risk.

You see why I'm all for him taking a year off to work on an NBA body.
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Mike@LG
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:44 pm Post subject:

Eindhoven wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

Eindhoven wrote:

It's unreal to expect we'll always the draft player available, in hindsight. I hope Moe becomes a decent rotation player, which is expected of a late 1st rounder, but I'm not optimistic.

Those expectations are unfair when every draft class is so drastically different.

Some years you can look at 4 HS players and they look like HOFs.

Some years, yet get zero.

It's like saying the Harrison twins or Emmanuel Mudiay were the top projected PGs for their respected draft classes out of HS.

Are they All-Stars? No.
Are they starters? No.

They barely worked their way into being rotation players, and both Harrison twins are in-and-out of the league.

That's how drastically different each draft class is.

This draft class is more like:

#1: Perennial All-Star
#2-6: Potential starters
#7-45: Potential rotation players

And that's assuming that it's a BPA list in descending order from Top to Bottom
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Mike@LG
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:46 pm Post subject:

Quote:

BPA won't fix our 29th ranking in both FT and threes.

But if he's an actual NBA talent, does it even matter? Or would you prefer the higher risk of the player busting, and not even able to stick in the league?

This is why it's BPA mentality.
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Mike@LG
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:48 pm Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Because GMs are often dumb.

A rotation player within the lottery is a pretty weak prospect, considering.
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Sentient Meat
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:44 pm Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Because GMs are often dumb.

A rotation player within the lottery is a pretty weak prospect, considering.

So to be clear, you include Clarke within the potential starter group of 2 to 6?

Mike@LG
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:24 pm Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Mike@LG wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Because GMs are often dumb.

A rotation player within the lottery is a pretty weak prospect, considering.

So to be clear, you include Clarke within the potential starter group of 2 to 6?

Nope.

Not anymore after a rethink. Decided he was a guy that needed 4 legit NBA players next to him (Gonzaga wasn't quite just that, but it was awfully close). He's the perfect guy you put in GSW, HOU, or MIL because those rosters are pretty stacked. He fills the gaps perfectly by adding defensive presence and buying teams possessions. Frankly, every team needs that.

He's also, just slightly bigger than Shawn Marion. If he was 240 and built like a brickhouse, I'd consider him a Ben Wallace archetype. Not exactly DPOY stuff (though it wouldn't surprise me if he did accomplish that), but even having half of that kind of impact is definitely Top 6 worthy.

I just don't think he gets there.
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Sentient Meat
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:31 pm Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Mike@LG wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Because GMs are often dumb.

A rotation player within the lottery is a pretty weak prospect, considering.

So to be clear, you include Clarke within the potential starter group of 2 to 6?

So if you've demoted him to the 6 thru 45 group, who are the top three choices for you at 11?

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