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Official General 2019 NBA Draft Talk Thread (Lakers Get 46th Pick/Talen Horton-Tucker, Sign Cacok, Norvell, Caroline)
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The God Particle
Star Player

Joined: 01 May 2015
Posts: 2196

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:19 pm Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:

The God Particle wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

The God Particle wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

The God Particle wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

You all fell in love with DLo.

He brought Brooklyn to the playoffs with his shooting, then what happened when his efficiency went down?

The team went down with it.

Garland is not better than Dlo or is he?

MUCH better.

Based on 5 games?

BASED ON 3!! I didn't need to see the final 2 games to see it.

So he is a better shooter and his shooting will be more consistent than DLo...

Yes. And his handle is much better (at same age) than DLo's and thus it makes him a better shot creator and playmaker.

Please rank CP3, Kyrie, Curry, Dame and Garland pre-draft.

In terms of...?

Hero Ball
Star Player

Joined: 26 May 2015
Posts: 4403

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:20 pm Post subject:

The God Particle wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

The God Particle wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

The God Particle wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

The God Particle wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

MUCH better.

Based on 5 games?

BASED ON 3!! I didn't need to see the final 2 games to see it.

So he is a better shooter and his shooting will be more consistent than DLo...

Yes. And his handle is much better (at same age) than DLo's and thus it makes him a better shot creator and playmaker.

Please rank CP3, Kyrie, Curry, Dame and Garland pre-draft.

In terms of...?

BPA
_________________
Trade AD now.

The God Particle
Star Player

Joined: 01 May 2015
Posts: 2196

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:21 pm Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:

Jesusdelonla wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

Jesusdelonla wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

dlo is so slow with no attacking game at all

He is slow but crafty.

His floater is money.

still doesnt change the fact that he cant get no FTs and create easy looks for his teammates

So does Klay...Garland better than Klay?

At 19, yes.

CamReddish
Star Player

Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 7939

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:22 pm Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:

The God Particle wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

The God Particle wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

The God Particle wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

The God Particle wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

MUCH better.

Based on 5 games?

BASED ON 3!! I didn't need to see the final 2 games to see it.

So he is a better shooter and his shooting will be more consistent than DLo...

Yes. And his handle is much better (at same age) than DLo's and thus it makes him a better shot creator and playmaker.

Please rank CP3, Kyrie, Curry, Dame and Garland pre-draft.

In terms of...?

BPA

I would say CP3, Kyrie, Curry, Garland , Dame during their draft years and the buzz and rankings
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Previously LBJ23

The God Particle
Star Player

Joined: 01 May 2015
Posts: 2196

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:29 pm Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:

The God Particle wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

The God Particle wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

The God Particle wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

The God Particle wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

MUCH better.

Based on 5 games?

BASED ON 3!! I didn't need to see the final 2 games to see it.

So he is a better shooter and his shooting will be more consistent than DLo...

Yes. And his handle is much better (at same age) than DLo's and thus it makes him a better shot creator and playmaker.

Please rank CP3, Kyrie, Curry, Dame and Garland pre-draft.

In terms of...?

BPA

You really can't. Dame and Curry were drafted at 22 and 21 years old, but if it's any indication, DG had a much better freshman season than either, against better competition.

If I would rank them as BPA after their freshman season, I'd go...

CP3 (he was a monster the second he stepped foot at Wake Forest)
Kyrie (he was injured, but he was widely considered a can't miss)
Garland
Curry
Dame

Hero Ball
Star Player

Joined: 26 May 2015
Posts: 4403

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:36 pm Post subject:

The God Particle wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

The God Particle wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

The God Particle wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

The God Particle wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

The God Particle wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

MUCH better.

Based on 5 games?

BASED ON 3!! I didn't need to see the final 2 games to see it.

So he is a better shooter and his shooting will be more consistent than DLo...

Yes. And his handle is much better (at same age) than DLo's and thus it makes him a better shot creator and playmaker.

Please rank CP3, Kyrie, Curry, Dame and Garland pre-draft.

In terms of...?

BPA

Garland better shooter than Curry at that point?

or better overall.
_________________
Trade AD now.

The God Particle
Star Player

Joined: 01 May 2015
Posts: 2196

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:42 pm Post subject:

Better overall...but as freshmen, if you take %'s into consideration, shooting too.

Hero Ball
Star Player

Joined: 26 May 2015
Posts: 4403

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:52 pm Post subject:

The God Particle wrote:

Better overall...but as freshmen, if you take %'s into consideration, shooting too.

So based on those, you would totally pick Garland over Curry.
_________________
Trade AD now.

epak
Retired Number

Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:57 pm Post subject:

Lol. This banter is great

Beir32
Star Player

Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Posts: 1710
Location: Western PA

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:03 pm Post subject:

epak wrote:

Lol. This banter is great

Yeah it's less draft talk and more "who's on first" up in here right now.

The God Particle
Star Player

Joined: 01 May 2015
Posts: 2196

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:04 pm Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:

The God Particle wrote:

Better overall...but as freshmen, if you take %'s into consideration, shooting too.

So based on those, you would totally pick Garland over Curry.

YES!!!

At 19 years old, after his freshman season, there was two people who thought he was gonna be what he is today. His mom, and his grandma.

Not even Dell Curry believed when his son was 19. lol

Hero Ball
Star Player

Joined: 26 May 2015
Posts: 4403

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:11 pm Post subject:

The God Particle wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

The God Particle wrote:

Better overall...but as freshmen, if you take %'s into consideration, shooting too.

So based on those, you would totally pick Garland over Curry.

YES!!!

At 19 years old, after his freshman season, there was two people who thought he was gonna be what he is today. His mom, and his grandma.

Not even Dell Curry believed when his son was 19. lol

That's why the Knicks fans still can't get over the Warriors picking him...up to this day.
_________________
Trade AD now.

JustaObserver
Star Player

Joined: 20 May 2017
Posts: 3170

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:28 pm Post subject:

oww wow we hyping up some guy...who only played in highschool and 5 whole games of college ball against nobody...lol. If thats the case can we move downward and get #8 and #10 with one being Bol Bol and 1 2nf round getting carson edwards and sign Taco Fall or buy a second pick for him?

JustaObserver
Star Player

Joined: 20 May 2017
Posts: 3170

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:32 pm Post subject:

heck if garland going to be lou Williams..cant we just tell the clippers "here take Mascula back..and give us lou back...we want a refund for this defective product"

Beir32
Star Player

Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Posts: 1710
Location: Western PA

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:34 pm Post subject:

JustaObserver wrote:

oww wow we hyping up some guy...who only played in highschool and 5 whole games of college ball against nobody...lol.

If thats the case can we move downward and get #8 and #10 with one being Bol Bol and 1 2nf round getting carson edwards and sign Taco Fall or buy a second pick for him?

So since you believe it's so outlandish, why do you think it is that Garland is a consensus top 6 pick amongst people who get paid to make such decisions?

JustaObserver
Star Player

Joined: 20 May 2017
Posts: 3170

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:59 pm Post subject:

Beir32 wrote:

JustaObserver wrote:

So since you believe it's so outlandish, why do you think it is that Garland is a consensus top 6 pick amongst people who get paid to make such decisions?

Yeah and why do you think people like Oden/ Anthoney Bennet/ Kwame Brown/Tuskevilli/Flyn/Evan Turner/Lonzo(he can shoot check his college shot chart pfft lol)/ were high but busts? The same media feed you this junk and people fall for it every time..pffft lmao!

Beir32
Star Player

Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Posts: 1710
Location: Western PA

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 8:09 pm Post subject:

JustaObserver wrote:

Beir32 wrote:

JustaObserver wrote:

So since you believe it's so outlandish, why do you think it is that Garland is a consensus top 6 pick amongst people who get paid to make such decisions?

So since you answered my question with a question I'll answer…because it's an imperfect process. No one knows how these kids will turn out. That's why Jokic and Draymond and Manu went in the second round.

Your turn.

adkindo
Retired Number

Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 8:18 pm Post subject:

JustaObserver wrote:

Beir32 wrote:

JustaObserver wrote:

So since you believe it's so outlandish, why do you think it is that Garland is a consensus top 6 pick amongst people who get paid to make such decisions?

but not you....you see straight through the conspiracy....

Beir32
Star Player

Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Posts: 1710
Location: Western PA

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 8:22 pm Post subject:

adkindo wrote:

JustaObserver wrote:

Beir32 wrote:

JustaObserver wrote:

So since you believe it's so outlandish, why do you think it is that Garland is a consensus top 6 pick amongst people who get paid to make such decisions?

but not you....you see straight through the conspiracy....

gooner
Starting Rotation

Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 448

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 8:25 pm Post subject:

JustaObserver wrote:

Beir32 wrote:

JustaObserver wrote:

So since you believe it's so outlandish, why do you think it is that Garland is a consensus top 6 pick amongst people who get paid to make such decisions?

So what are your top 10 picks for the record (uninfluenced by media junk) so we can come back here in 3-4 years and validate your insight?

Runway8
Franchise Player

Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 22854
Location: La Jolla, San Diego

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:09 pm Post subject:

JustaObserver wrote:

Beir32 wrote:

JustaObserver wrote:

So since you believe it's so outlandish, why do you think it is that Garland is a consensus top 6 pick amongst people who get paid to make such decisions?

My favorite types of poster this time of the year! Time and time again, history tells us that we really don't know squat. Even people paid millions to do this job know squat. Otherwise, guys like Greek Freak, Kobe, Kawhi, Joker, etc. would all be #1 picks. But I just love this time of the year when fans get snarky and pissy because they just know they are right and others are wrong. LOL! Okay, you're not high on Darius Garland. We got it. I just thought college kids going to the NBA represents the hopeful future of the NBA as well as the team that drafts them, the hype and excitement is the "possibility" that this guy, or that guy is going to be great.

But maybe you're right, Darius Garland is the chosen one by the media this year, to play a joke on some NBA that will draft him. They're just trying to hype up a guy who they know is going to be a bust for sh*ts and giggles.

And what world did you come from where they hyped Anthony Bennett? I can see how you're sour now by this whole process if someone hyped Bennett to you. But that "someone" wasn't the media. Might have been just your buddy. In my world, that was a surprise #1 pick by the Cavs. Or perhaps you're just using 20/20 hindsight to lists a bunch of bust to try and make your point. BTW, Lonzo shouldn't be on that list just quite yet.

LAL1947
Star Player

Joined: 26 Dec 2018
Posts: 1855

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:08 am Post subject:

The God Particle wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

Garland better shooter than Curry at that point?

or better overall.

Better overall...but as freshmen, if you take %'s into consideration, shooting too.

This question intrigued me, so I took the time to look it up.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/darius-garland-1.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/stephen-curry-1.html

If you are speaking strictly from a stats perspective when both were freshman, then I disagree about DG being better overall. I've used what I could find and stuck to the stats that are available for both... think they favor Steph as the better player in their 1st year:

Stat - Steph vs. Garland (inference)
----------------------------------------
WS/40 - .268 vs. .148 (Steph contributed to more wins)
Points/40 - 27.8 vs. 23.3 (Steph scored more)
TS% - .617 vs. .657 (DG shot better)
FTA/40 - 5.5 vs 4.6 (Steph was harder to guard and/or drove to the hoop more?)
ASTs/40 - 3.6 vs. 3.7 (Both involve team mates equally)
TOVs/40 - 3.6 vs. 4.3 (Steph has better handle/decision making or is DG less risk averse?)
STLs/40 - 2.4 vs. 1.2 (Steph more active in defense)
BLKs/40 - 0.2 vs. 0.6 (since the STL rate is lower, DG being better at BLKs might indicate longer reach)
PFs/40 - 3.3 vs 2.0 (Since both aren't known for defense, this might indicate Steph more active in defense)

Regarding shooting...

Stat - Steph vs. Garland
---------------------------
Games played - 33 vs. 5
TS% - .617 vs. .657
2PA/40 - 8.5 vs. 8.9
2P%/40 - .526 vs. .581
3PA/40 - 11.4 vs. 6.6
3P%/40 - .408 vs. .478
FTA - 5.5 vs. 4.6
FT% - .855 vs .750

Both guys have high percentages. DG's TS, 2P and 3P percentages are higher for the 5 games he played, which is great for him! The obvious question to ask is... could we expect the same percentages over the 33 games Steph played? Or were they the result of a patch of good form over those 5 games and would they normalize at a lower level over 33 games? Steph also jacked up a lot more threes over 40 mins... did he do so because he's a better shooter and/or more confident in his shot? I'm also keeping in mind the model which indicates that players with a better FT% usually end up being better shooters and Steph's FT% is 10.5 percentage points higher on more FT attempts. If they were peers and we were trying to judge who was the better shooter after their 1st years, I think the jury might be split 55-45 to Steph because he proved consistent over a whole season while DG didn't get the chance to do that (no fault of his).

Btw, if you compare these basic stats for Garland's vs Lillard's first years in college, I think those two guys are closer.

Last edited by LAL1947 on Wed May 22, 2019 4:51 am; edited 2 times in total

JustaObserver
Star Player

Joined: 20 May 2017
Posts: 3170

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 4:25 am Post subject:

Beir32 wrote:

JustaObserver wrote:

Beir32 wrote:

JustaObserver wrote:

So since you believe it's so outlandish, why do you think it is that Garland is a consensus top 6 pick amongst people who get paid to make such decisions?

Just waking up...basically..anybody that looked at the video could tell "some" of my mentioned guys sucked but the media saiiiiid this is the #1 pick or this guy is going to be a star...by the way he cant shoot...or by the way he hasnt played mAny college games...by the way he cant shoot a free throw....by the way he cant dribble...by the way he commits too many fouls..you see a pattern?

JustaObserver
Star Player

Joined: 20 May 2017
Posts: 3170

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 4:26 am Post subject:

adkindo wrote:

JustaObserver wrote:

Beir32 wrote:

JustaObserver wrote:

So since you believe it's so outlandish, why do you think it is that Garland is a consensus top 6 pick amongst people who get paid to make such decisions?

but not you....you see straight through the conspiracy....

soooo if i play super star basket ball at my LOCAL highschool...and then play maybe three games at college really well. and then claim injury and stay out all season...Hey i can declare for NBA and get drafted high? The media hypes me up based on my HIGHSCHOOL "STATS"...heck CAM should have done that lonnnnng time ago....people would be saying "wait till he gets better and comes to the NBA he going to be A STAR!!!"....lol

Last edited by JustaObserver on Wed May 22, 2019 4:31 am; edited 1 time in total

The God Particle
Star Player

Joined: 01 May 2015
Posts: 2196

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 4:30 am Post subject:

LAL1947 wrote:

The God Particle wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

Garland better shooter than Curry at that point?

or better overall.

Better overall...but as freshmen, if you take %'s into consideration, shooting too.

This question intrigued me, so I took the time to look it up.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/darius-garland-1.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/stephen-curry-1.html

If you are speaking strictly from a stats perspective when both were freshman, then I disagree about DG being better overall. I've used what I could find and stuck to the stats that are available for both... think they favor Steph as the better player in their 1st year:

Stat - Steph vs. Garland (inferences aside from the obvious)
----------------------------------------
WS/40 - .268 vs. .148 (Steph contributed to more wins)
Points/40 - 27.8 vs. 23.3 (Steph scored more)
TS% - .617 vs. .657 (DG shot better)
FTA/40 - 5.5 vs 4.6 (Steph was harder to guard and/or drove to the hoop more?)
ASTs/40 - 3.6 vs. 3.7 (Both involve team mates equally)
TOVs/40 - 3.6 vs. 4.3 (Steph has better handle/decision making or is DG less risk averse?)
STLs/40 - 2.4 vs. 1.2 (Steph more active in defense)
BLKs/40 - 0.2 vs. 0.6 (since the STL rate is lower, DG being better at BLKs might indicate longer reach)
PFs/40 - 3.3 vs 2.0 (Since both aren't known for defense, this might indicate Steph more active in defense)

Regarding shooting...

Stat - Steph vs. Garland
---------------------------
Games played - 33 vs. 5
TS% - .617 vs. .657
2PA/40 - 8.5 vs. 8.9
2P%/40 - .526 vs. .581
3PA/40 - 11.4 vs. 6.6
3P%/40 - .408 vs. .478
FTA - 5.5 vs. 4.6
FT% - .855 vs .750

Both guys have high percentages. DG's TS, 2P and 3P percentages are higher for the 5 games he played, which is great for him! The obvious question to ask is... could we expect the same percentages over the 33 games Steph played? Or were they the result of a patch of good form over those 5 games and would they normalize at a lower level over 33 games? Steph also jacked up a lot more threes over 40 mins... did he do so because he's a better shooter and/or more confident in his shot? I'm also keeping in mind the model which indicates that players with a better FT% usually end up being better shooters and Steph's FT% is 10.5 percentage points higher on more FT attempts. If they were peers and we were trying to judge who was the better shooter after their 1st years, I think the jury might be split 55-45 to Steph because he proved consistent over a whole season while DG didn't get the chance to do that (no fault of his).

Btw, if you compare these basic stats for Garland's vs Lillard's first years, I think they are closer.

Good sleuthing LAL1947!

I can comeback with a half-arsed "But it was Davidson".... but that wouldn't be fair of me, because I really think Curry would have succeeded in any conference.

As is the case with most "superstars".... in hindsight, when looking at their tapes of their "before they were..." it is glaringly obvious that they were themselves since well before the pros. When I look at Curry play at Davidson, I think "Curry was already Curry before the pros".... When I see Kobes summer league games at 17 I think the same thing....when I see games and footage of Giannis playing in high school gyms in those obscure leagues I think "Giannis was ALREADY Giannis at 15"...

Imperfect process I suppose.

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