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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:04 pm    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
not sold on Zion at all. I dont think he's a bust but think chances are he will be one of those players who will be more highlights and flash than substance. And he's one of those players who's already been through elite player development programs so even though he is young he may have already fleshed out a good amount of the skills he can reasonably develop.


What else does he have left to show?

This isn't even elite player development when he was doing this from the get go.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:20 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
not sold on Zion at all. I dont think he's a bust but think chances are he will be one of those players who will be more highlights and flash than substance. And he's one of those players who's already been through elite player development programs so even though he is young he may have already fleshed out a good amount of the skills he can reasonably develop.


What else does he have left to show?

This isn't even elite player development when he was doing this from the get go.


yeah, if healthy, I just can not see a way he is not an All Star within 3 years. He has weaknesses, but even they appear to be improving on a faster track than could have been expected. I do not think he will dominate the NBA from day 1 or anything....he will go through some type of learning curve, and I think he will shed a few pounds to protect his joints long term.....but in my mind, the debate is over about if he will be a star in the NBA.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:55 pm    Post subject:

Zion is one of the best prospects of all time. It's not just the athleticism, it's the ball-handling and court-vision that go with it. His jumper hasn't been bad either over the last month. He has monster offensive and defensive potential.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:29 pm    Post subject:

LakerLogic wrote:
Zion is one of the best prospects of all time. It's not just the athleticism, it's the ball-handling and court-vision that go with it. His jumper hasn't been bad either over the last month. He has monster offensive and defensive potential.


Yup. Super Randle got a cape and is wearing a Duke uniform.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:45 pm    Post subject:

I thought the Kemp comp I heard today in regards to physical style of play was solid. Zion may be a better prospect than Kemp, but Kemp was a beast that could jump out of the gym. Kemp's career also was shortened and derailed by off court issues....but out of high school and early in the NBA, Kemp was special.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:17 pm    Post subject:

a look back at the 2018 draft....a few of us were interested in taking a late draft flyer or undrafted pickup of TCU's Kenrich Williams. He eventually was not drafted and signed with the Pels. Has not played much most of the season, but has been getting minutes lately and appears to have legit NBA ability. A small sample size, but over the last 5 games....14.4 Points, 7.4 Rebounds, 3 Assists....and shooting 46% from 3.

The point is only to consider him when coming across a prospect like him in future drafts....a little older, very high BBIQ, good size, etc.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:51 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
There’s scouts from the Lakers, Pelicans, Nets and Rockets here and I’m pretty sure they’re liking what they see from Naz Reid

https://twitter.com/ZacharyJunda/status/1094334460861005825
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:41 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
Quote:
There’s scouts from the Lakers, Pelicans, Nets and Rockets here and I’m pretty sure they’re liking what they see from Naz Reid

https://twitter.com/ZacharyJunda/status/1094334460861005825


Ugh. Offense is fine. Defense is a disaster.

It's a Caleb Swanigan case.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:15 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
32 wrote:
Quote:
There’s scouts from the Lakers, Pelicans, Nets and Rockets here and I’m pretty sure they’re liking what they see from Naz Reid

https://twitter.com/ZacharyJunda/status/1094334460861005825


Ugh. Offense is fine. Defense is a disaster.

It's a Caleb Swanigan case.


But a better athlete and physical attributes than Swanigan makes him intriguing.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:46 pm    Post subject:

What a closeout block by Zion
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:04 pm    Post subject:

Sleeper I'd look at if I'm the Lakers is PJ Washington as a potential steal in this draft.

Mocks have us taking Romeo Langford (if we remain where we are in the draft), which is solid, though I'd really look at PJ Washington and seeing about transitioning him into a wing(or a 3). I'd put Grant Williams in the same boat as PJ Washington in that regard. I think they are very much a steal if you can transition them into the wing position(or 3) in the NBA. But they also have good tools in general to be steals at their positions. Both are WAY under the radar.

PJ Washington
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngq_6y2xuQs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFLd7Y4bD5g

Grant Williams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OtSXfaJcTk
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:15 pm    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
32 wrote:
Quote:
There’s scouts from the Lakers, Pelicans, Nets and Rockets here and I’m pretty sure they’re liking what they see from Naz Reid

https://twitter.com/ZacharyJunda/status/1094334460861005825


Ugh. Offense is fine. Defense is a disaster.

It's a Caleb Swanigan case.


But a better athlete and physical attributes than Swanigan makes him intriguing.


I don't know man. The athleticism is there on offense, not on defense. It's SO bad.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:16 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Sleeper I'd look at if I'm the Lakers is PJ Washington as a potential steal in this draft.

Mocks have us taking Romeo Langford (if we remain where we are in the draft), which is solid, though I'd really look at PJ Washington and seeing about transitioning him into a wing(or a 3). I'd put Grant Williams in the same boat as PJ Washington in that regard. I think they are very much a steal if you can transition them into the wing position(or 3) in the NBA. But they also have good tools in general to be steals at their positions. Both are WAY under the radar.

PJ Washington
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngq_6y2xuQs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFLd7Y4bD5g

Grant Williams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OtSXfaJcTk


I like PJ Washington's talent, but I *hate* bigs with inconsistent motors. That's a bit of a flag unless workouts say otherwise.

People have been frustrated with Ayton's motor a bit this season, even when he showed it all last year at AZ.

Not sure I could deal with that well for an inbound rookie. It's WAY too rare to improve motor as a player.

Honestly in a draft like this, it feels like everything is a crapshoot in the same tier, so I'd just be tempted to take Thybulle or Haliberton as high as mid-1st and then let them develop for 3 years with zero expectations of production at the NBA level for the first two.
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Last edited by Mike@LG on Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:22 pm    Post subject:

Zion is the next Shawn Kemp
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:32 pm    Post subject:

matrixskillz wrote:
Zion is the next Shawn Kemp


Nah, that's an insult to Zion. It also ignores his skillset, which is way more advanced than Kemp's ever was.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:45 pm    Post subject:

Zion reminds me a lot of Larry Johnson ... but even more explosive which is crazy
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:46 pm    Post subject:

YSong wrote:
Zion reminds me a lot of Larry Johnson ... but even more explosive which is crazy


Better comparison with skill set.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:00 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
matrixskillz wrote:
Zion is the next Shawn Kemp


Nah, that's an insult to Zion. It also ignores his skillset, which is way more advanced than Kemp's ever was.


I just don't see the comparison. Different type of players especially when comparing skill set. However not sure it is an insult to Zion as in his prime Kemp was a damn good player. Maybe underrating Zion.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:03 pm    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
matrixskillz wrote:
Zion is the next Shawn Kemp


Nah, that's an insult to Zion. It also ignores his skillset, which is way more advanced than Kemp's ever was.


I just don't see the comparison. Different type of players especially when comparing skill set. However not sure it is an insult to Zion as in his prime Kemp was a damn good player. Maybe underrating Zion.


Prime Kemp was foul prone, couldn't make advanced reads, and barely had an average jumper from mid-range. That's why I find it insulting.

Kemp got away with athletic tools for such a long time, but never really applied it all over the floor in the way that Zion did.

I even think Kemp was a twitchier athlete, but Zion just brings all that strength/power/explosiveness in combination, that it may be the only thing really comparable between the two. Kemp wasn't one for advanced dribble moves in the high post, reads on the fly, etc.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:13 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Sleeper I'd look at if I'm the Lakers is PJ Washington as a potential steal in this draft.

Mocks have us taking Romeo Langford (if we remain where we are in the draft), which is solid, though I'd really look at PJ Washington and seeing about transitioning him into a wing(or a 3). I'd put Grant Williams in the same boat as PJ Washington in that regard. I think they are very much a steal if you can transition them into the wing position(or 3) in the NBA. But they also have good tools in general to be steals at their positions. Both are WAY under the radar.

PJ Washington
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngq_6y2xuQs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFLd7Y4bD5g

Grant Williams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OtSXfaJcTk


Grant Williams is just a meh player for me. Hard to compare to an existing NBA player. Maybe PJ Tucker but not as athletic. Would be disappointed if drafted by the Lakers.

PJ is a semi meh player for me. Can he develop into a Taj Gibson type player? Maybe at the tail end of the first but not late teens or early/mid twenties.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:20 pm    Post subject:

I like Grant Williams, but to a point.

it's really really tough for me to gauge where Mark Aguirre (there's an 80's reference) would fit in the modern NBA.

Aguirre was a strong SF, forced to play 3, because he was too short to play PF and PF was considered the weak/taboo position back then below centers.

Grant can play. I also think he made the NBA leap in terms of NBA physicality just like SChofield, and both guys are taking advantage of it. It's somewhat safe to say they already made their first "NBA leap" of sorts considering both guys are incredible shape.

Usually young prospects are incredibly productive, before they get to that point. But once they do, they get breakout seasons like D'Angelo Russell, Caris LeVert, and Julius Randle.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:21 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
matrixskillz wrote:
Zion is the next Shawn Kemp


Nah, that's an insult to Zion. It also ignores his skillset, which is way more advanced than Kemp's ever was.


I just don't see the comparison. Different type of players especially when comparing skill set. However not sure it is an insult to Zion as in his prime Kemp was a damn good player. Maybe underrating Zion.


Prime Kemp was foul prone, couldn't make advanced reads, and barely had an average jumper from mid-range. That's why I find it insulting.

Kemp got away with athletic tools for such a long time, but never really applied it all over the floor in the way that Zion did.

I even think Kemp was a twitchier athlete, but Zion just brings all that strength/power/explosiveness in combination, that it may be the only thing really comparable between the two. Kemp wasn't one for advanced dribble moves in the high post, reads on the fly, etc.


Agree with everything you mentioned and why I did not see the comparison. However I still remember how much impact he had on the game and how unstoppable he could be. That Supersonic team with Chambers, Ellis and Kemp was scary.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:26 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
That Supersonic team with Chambers, Ellis and Kemp was scary.


I think Kemp was the flawed player that ruined their championship hopes. I think he's overrated and his incredibly hyped by his showtime dunks.

All that talent, but just an All Star 6x. Career pretty much over by age 30/31.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:29 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
I like Grant Williams, but to a point.

it's really really tough for me to gauge where Mark Aguirre (there's an 80's reference) would fit in the modern NBA.

Aguirre was a strong SF, forced to play 3, because he was too short to play PF and PF was considered the weak/taboo position back then below centers.

Grant can play. I also think he made the NBA leap in terms of NBA physicality just like SChofield, and both guys are taking advantage of it. It's somewhat safe to say they already made their first "NBA leap" of sorts considering both guys are incredible shape.

Usually young prospects are incredibly productive, before they get to that point. But once they do, they get breakout seasons like D'Angelo Russell, Caris LeVert, and Julius Randle.


For me Mark Aguirre was Melo before Melo. Scoring machine from mid-range. Carried the Mavericks on his back.

When I can't match a prospect to an existing NBA player then I just cannot endorse them as a prospect. Is he similar to Jarnell Stokes? Williams might be more versatile but I still can't place him in a position in the NBA.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:32 pm    Post subject:

Oh noooooo. Grant Williams is WAY more skilled with the mid-range game and pivot work. I remember Jarnell, but Stokes was foul prone and his game was predicated around rebounding like Danny Fortson.

Grant Williams
Mark Aguirre
Adrian Dantley
Corliss Williamson
Danny Fortson
Jarnell Stokes
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