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defense
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Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 39537
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 Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:43 am Post subject: |
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I think we have 3 guys not including LeBron who has shown defensive ability.
Lonzo
Hart
KCP
Mcgee, Rondo and LeBron are all capable but will they? We shall see...
We could be top 10. It wouldn't surprise me. We weren't exactly a defensive power house individually last season and they did well. I'm optimistic this season. I see the same know it all's making negative claims like always. I suspect they will be wrong like they were about so many other things. We will be a good team. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| Christopher Walken wrote: | all defensive but good FT lineup:
KCP
Hart
lance
BI
Bron
(and all can switch except KCP can't D center) |
And Lance can’t guard an open parking spot.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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lakersboy
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Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 8518
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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People who believe the defense will be poor are looking at the wrong things. Good defenses don't have 5 lockdown defenders. The Showtime Lakers had one defensive stand out, but they played good team defense, even with old Kareem in the lineup. They had good athletes.
Other than Rodman, none of the Bad Boys Pistons we're known for playing good honest defense (without grabbing or knocking someone down). In 2004, the Pistons featured Ben Wallace, Tayshaun Prince and the rest.
People confuse points allowed with bad defense. This team is going to allow some points because they are going to score a lot more. They should be creating a lot of turnovers that lead to points.
Someone mentioned Nance and Randle being gone, but so are Clarkson and IT, and both of them got plenty of minutes last year. I even expect Mcgee's minutes to be better than Lopez on D.
Lockdown defenders are a myth, but LeBron can still get in the passing lane, just like KCP. Ingram, Hart, Lonzo, and even Kuzma are quick, athletic, energetic, and long enough to be part of that, perfectly supporting a good team defense.
Imo, some people just think it's wise to doubt positive Lakers vibes so that no one accuses them of drinking kool aid. Until 5 Marcus Banks' arrive to lockdown and shut out opponents, this team has no chance to be good defensively, by some people's standards.
There's no reason to believe this team should not have a very good defense, this year, even better than last year. |
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h2omike
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 2811
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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eddiejonze
Star Player
Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 7251
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersboy wrote: | People who believe the defense will be poor are looking at the wrong things. Good defenses don't have 5 lockdown defenders. The Showtime Lakers had one defensive stand out, but they played good team defense, even with old Kareem in the lineup. They had good athletes.
Other than Rodman, none of the Bad Boys Pistons we're known for playing good honest defense (without grabbing or knocking someone down). In 2004, the Pistons featured Ben Wallace, Tayshaun Prince and the rest.
People confuse points allowed with bad defense. This team is going to allow some points because they are going to score a lot more. They should be creating a lot of turnovers that lead to points.
Someone mentioned Nance and Randle being gone, but so are Clarkson and IT, and both of them got plenty of minutes last year. I even expect Mcgee's minutes to be better than Lopez on D.
Lockdown defenders are a myth, but LeBron can still get in the passing lane, just like KCP. Ingram, Hart, Lonzo, and even Kuzma are quick, athletic, energetic, and long enough to be part of that, perfectly supporting a good team defense.
Imo, some people just think it's wise to doubt positive Lakers vibes so that no one accuses them of drinking kool aid. Until 5 Marcus Banks' arrive to lockdown and shut out opponents, this team has no chance to be good defensively, by some people's standards.
There's no reason to believe this team should not have a very good defense, this year, even better than last year. |
I like the Marcus Banks reference... a very slight jab at the infatuation he had on this site in years past.
I agree about people trying to be contrarian for contrarians sake, sadly, it's what fuels LG ( if everyone agreed on every issue, kumbaya but it would also be a boring convo...)
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Creatures crawl in search of blood, To terrorize y'alls neighborhood. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersboy wrote: | People who believe the defense will be poor are looking at the wrong things. Good defenses don't have 5 lockdown defenders. The Showtime Lakers had one defensive stand out, but they played good team defense, even with old Kareem in the lineup. They had good athletes.
Other than Rodman, none of the Bad Boys Pistons we're known for playing good honest defense (without grabbing or knocking someone down). In 2004, the Pistons featured Ben Wallace, Tayshaun Prince and the rest.
People confuse points allowed with bad defense. This team is going to allow some points because they are going to score a lot more. They should be creating a lot of turnovers that lead to points.
Someone mentioned Nance and Randle being gone, but so are Clarkson and IT, and both of them got plenty of minutes last year. I even expect Mcgee's minutes to be better than Lopez on D.
Lockdown defenders are a myth, but LeBron can still get in the passing lane, just like KCP. Ingram, Hart, Lonzo, and even Kuzma are quick, athletic, energetic, and long enough to be part of that, perfectly supporting a good team defense.
Imo, some people just think it's wise to doubt positive Lakers vibes so that no one accuses them of drinking kool aid. Until 5 Marcus Banks' arrive to lockdown and shut out opponents, this team has no chance to be good defensively, by some people's standards.
There's no reason to believe this team should not have a very good defense, this year, even better than last year. |
| lakersboy wrote: | | People who believe the defense will be poor are looking at the wrong things. Good defenses don't have 5 lockdown defenders. The Showtime Lakers had one defensive stand out, but they played good team defense, even with old Kareem in the lineup. They had good athletes. |
Showtime was a good, not great defensive team. They ranked 9-13th in the league in defensive during the ring years. Oh, for our first two rings, Kareem was still making the all-defensive team.
As far as the Pistons, in addition to Rodman they had Dumars, who was considered a great defender. You're not going to be a great defensive team without some great defenders. |
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3baller
Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 Oct 2017
Posts: 992
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Here's how I look at it. Our expected starting lineup of Lonzo/KCP/BI/Bron/McGee is basically a wash defensively compared to last year where we had Jules and Lopez instead of Bron and McGee.
The difference it would seem would be on the bench where we lost Nance but also lost Clarkson who was a liability on D. Here's our Offensive and Defensive rating on Feb and March last season:
February Offensive Rating: 110.3
Defensive Rating: 105.1
March Offensive Rating: 108.4
Defensive Rating: 107.2
2017-2018 Season Offensive Rating 104.4:
Defensive Rating: 105.6
February was the month we lost Nance and Clarkson. Addition by subtraction, we substantially improved offensively by losing Nance, Clarkson and Corey Brewer and got only a little worse defensively.
Our steals per game evidently suffered with the loss of those 3 guys specifically Nance but our overall defense didn't suffer too much.
So while I think that we will take a dip defensively to around the 15th to 18th in the league, our offense will take a huge leap and take us from 23rd in the league last year to 6th-8th this year. I think that will still be good for 47-50 wins.
All this with the caveat that Lance Stephenson doesn't get major minutes off the bench. And have Zubac or Wagner be our backup center and not Beasley as some are suggesting. Kuzma and Beasley will be a terrible frontcourt duo on the defensive end with no rim protection whatsoever. |
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lakersboy
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 8518
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: |
People who believe the defense will be poor are looking at the wrong things. Good defenses don't have 5 lockdown defenders. The Showtime Lakers had one defensive stand out, but they played good team defense, even with old Kareem in the lineup. They had good athletes. |
Showtime was a good, not great defensive team. They ranked 9-13th in the league in defensive during the ring years. Oh, for our first two rings, Kareem was still making the all-defensive team.
As far as the Pistons, in addition to Rodman they had Dumars, who was considered a great defender. You're not going to be a great defensive team without some great defenders. |
I agree that Showtime had a good defense, as highlighted above.
I recall Dumars being called a good defender during a time his team held Jordan below his average by beating him up and knocking him down. Few others employed that style of play and it makes me retroactively wonder how much of his reputation was based on fouling and intimidation, instead of athletic ability.
As far as Kareem's age, he was part of Showtime for 10 years, until he was 41, so a lot of the team's success was when he was past his prime. |
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splashmtn
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersboy wrote: | People who believe the defense will be poor are looking at the wrong things. Good defenses don't have 5 lockdown defenders. The Showtime Lakers had one defensive stand out, but they played good team defense, even with old Kareem in the lineup. They had good athletes.
Other than Rodman, none of the Bad Boys Pistons we're known for playing good honest defense (without grabbing or knocking someone down). In 2004, the Pistons featured Ben Wallace, Tayshaun Prince and the rest.
People confuse points allowed with bad defense. This team is going to allow some points because they are going to score a lot more. They should be creating a lot of turnovers that lead to points.
Someone mentioned Nance and Randle being gone, but so are Clarkson and IT, and both of them got plenty of minutes last year. I even expect Mcgee's minutes to be better than Lopez on D.
Lockdown defenders are a myth, but LeBron can still get in the passing lane, just like KCP. Ingram, Hart, Lonzo, and even Kuzma are quick, athletic, energetic, and long enough to be part of that, perfectly supporting a good team defense.
Imo, some people just think it's wise to doubt positive Lakers vibes so that no one accuses them of drinking kool aid. Until 5 Marcus Banks' arrive to lockdown and shut out opponents, this team has no chance to be good defensively, by some people's standards.
There's no reason to believe this team should not have a very good defense, this year, even better than last year. |
you mentioned the bad boy pistons and said only rodman. uhhh did you forget joe dumars? Lock down defense. but your point is made.
ask yourself what team had the best defense last year? when i say best defense I need stats to back it up but also eye test to back it up. |
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lewis
Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2013
Posts: 1165
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:03 am Post subject: |
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No way. We don't have good one on one defenders or rim protectors. We can have a sneaky good defense if we switch everything have good communication/rotations and smaller guys hold their own, but locked down defense ...no way.
For example I think ICP is till our best on ball defender and maybe Ingram could become one. Lonzo and Hart are great off ball defenders but average when defending the point of attack. Add 0 rim protection and I would be happy with a top 15 defense |
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