Carmelo to Rockets
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CandyCanes
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:17 am    Post subject: Carmelo to Rockets

Harden and Carmelo on the same team with D'Antoni as coach.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:31 am    Post subject:

2nd best move by the Lakers FO this offseason....not going after 'Melo (or I assume we did not).
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:45 am    Post subject:

1 year 2.4 mil.

Rockets new owner is a no nonsense business guy if you watch his show billionaire buyer. Kinda surprised he signed off on this pick up.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:57 pm    Post subject:

a net negative for the Rockets. One of the worst type of players to have is a former star who refuses to accept his declining abilities.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:17 pm    Post subject:

Great signing for the minimum. He will play with a true PG for the first time since he played with Kidd. CP3 will get him great looks.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:31 pm    Post subject:

This could go either way. This will come down to whether Carmelo can check his ego, accept he's not a star anymore, and contribute in a niche role.

If he accepts (as he reportedly is willing to do) being a scorer off the bench, he could be an OK pickup.

If he thinks of himself as part of "The Big Three," and doesn't accept how much he's declined, it could get rocky. I see more risk than reward in this, and their roster this year looks weaker defensively without any offensive upgrade.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:00 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Great signing for the minimum. He will play with a true PG for the first time since he played with Kidd. CP3 will get him great looks.

As long as CP3 actually has the ball in his hands it might actually work on offense...
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:05 pm    Post subject:

Only way Melo can win a ring at this point in his career is to embrace the bench/role player role.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:47 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Great signing for the minimum. He will play with a true PG for the first time since he played with Kidd. CP3 will get him great looks.


Kidd?
Didn't Melo play with Chauncy in Denver?
He wasn't shabby
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:03 am    Post subject:

Was Carmelo really even that good to begin with? Flashy offensive game but no defense and he's never done much other than that trip to the WCF against us when he had Billups.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:36 am    Post subject:

kball wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Great signing for the minimum. He will play with a true PG for the first time since he played with Kidd. CP3 will get him great looks.


Kidd?
Didn't Melo play with Chauncy in Denver?
He wasn't shabby


Since Kidd. He played with Kidd after he left Denver. He had success with Billups too. Another reason I'm not worried.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:41 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
This could go either way. This will come down to whether Carmelo can check his ego, accept he's not a star anymore, and contribute in a niche role.

If he accepts (as he reportedly is willing to do) being a scorer off the bench, he could be an OK pickup.

If he thinks of himself as part of "The Big Three," and doesn't accept how much he's declined, it could get rocky. I see more risk than reward in this, and their roster this year looks weaker defensively without any offensive upgrade.


Carmelo isn't an offensive upgrade over the other forwards on the roster?

He doesn't need to come off the bench. Over the last two seasons Ryan Anderson has started 66 and 72 games (all 72 he played that year). The Rockets won 65 and 55 games with a PF that can't defend as their starter, and he isn't a better offensive player than Anthony. Agreed that he does need to accept his role. I don't think he will beef with his best friend (CP3) about the ball, and CP3 will get him good looks.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:06 pm    Post subject:

I posted these in the Trade and Free Agency forum a while back:

Carmelo describes his idea team.

How Carmelo fits in with the Rockets.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:33 pm    Post subject:

Melo shot only 40% last season, and he's only shot as high as 45% in one of the last seven seasons. He also doesn't play any defense and doesn't pass the ball much. Simply put, he seems washed up.

Plus now they have three guys who need the ball in their hands to score and are ball stoppers. They made it work with two of those guys, but three of them just makes it much more complex. Is Melo able and willing to play off the ball now?

Unless he has a renaissance and shots well from the field I don't see how this helps Houston. In fact I could see him hurting the team at times.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:22 pm    Post subject:

slavavov wrote:
Melo shot only 40% last season, and he's only shot as high as 45% in one of the last seven seasons. He also doesn't play any defense and doesn't pass the ball much. Simply put, he seems washed up.


Melo was playing in a bad system last year with a PG that isn't great at getting guys great shots. He's now playing in a good offensive system with a PG that's historically great at getting guys great shots. He will have the Ryan Anderson role, and his %'s last season on the type of shots Anderson gets in our system were good. Anderson also doesn't play any defense and can't pass.

slavavov wrote:

Plus now they have three guys who need the ball in their hands to score and are ball stoppers.


Harden and CP3 are very good off the ball shooters. They don't need the ball in their hands to score, but both are obviously better with it. Melo will get the wide open looks that Ariza and Anderson got.

slavavov wrote:
Is Melo able and willing to play off the ball now?


That's the magic question. Will he accept his role.

slavavov wrote:
Unless he has a renaissance and shots well from the field I don't see how this helps Houston. In fact I could see him hurting the team at times.


He'd be just fine shooting what he shot on wide open shots last season. Those are the type of shots that he will get in Houston. Based on what we tried to do with Joe Johnson last year, they may try to post him some since the team doesn't really have a post option.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:53 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
slavavov wrote:
Melo shot only 40% last season, and he's only shot as high as 45% in one of the last seven seasons. He also doesn't play any defense and doesn't pass the ball much. Simply put, he seems washed up.


Melo was playing in a bad system last year with a PG that isn't great at getting guys great shots. He's now playing in a good offensive system with a PG that's historically great at getting guys great shots. He will have the Ryan Anderson role, and his %'s last season on the type of shots Anderson gets in our system were good. Anderson also doesn't play any defense and can't pass.

slavavov wrote:

Plus now they have three guys who need the ball in their hands to score and are ball stoppers.


Harden and CP3 are very good off the ball shooters. They don't need the ball in their hands to score, but both are obviously better with it. Melo will get the wide open looks that Ariza and Anderson got.

slavavov wrote:
Is Melo able and willing to play off the ball now?


That's the magic question. Will he accept his role.

slavavov wrote:
Unless he has a renaissance and shots well from the field I don't see how this helps Houston. In fact I could see him hurting the team at times.


He'd be just fine shooting what he shot on wide open shots last season. Those are the type of shots that he will get in Houston. Based on what we tried to do with Joe Johnson last year, they may try to post him some since the team doesn't really have a post option.

Melo was not a good fit in OKC last season. But saying that a guy who averaged 10 assists a game the last couple seasons is not great at getting guys shots doesn't sound right to me.

I'm skeptical about if Melo would fit on this team. You said he'll play the role that Ryan Anderson played, but you also admitted that you're not sure if Melo would accept that role. Even if he did, it's hard to break 15 years of habitually pounding the ball for several seconds or most of the shot clock to get your own shot.

I also wonder if the rest of the league will catch up to how Houston changed from an uptempo offense to a slower, iso-heavy offense. If I were coaching against them I might throw hard double teams at Melo and see if he's willing and able to hit the open man consistently.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:00 pm    Post subject:

Melo has played a full 82 game season only once in his career...his rookie year. Even though he is a mid 20's PPG player for his career, I say he averages 15PPG this year, even worse than his 16 PPG last season with the OKC Blunder. Dude needs to call it a career already, he sucks.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:47 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Was Carmelo really even that good to begin with? Flashy offensive game but no defense and he's never done much other than that trip to the WCF against us when he had Billups.


After 2009 when the team picked up Artest, there was excitement about Artest being able to guard Paul Pierce. There was also excitement because Denver was a tough opponent in the conference finals, and nobody on the team could stop Carmelo (Ariza certainly couldn’t and I say that as a big fan of his). With Artest, the team had a guy that would give him a much bigger challenge.

But Denver really fell off after 2009 so a rematch of the 2009 conference finals never happened.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:54 pm    Post subject:

Most posts are about the Rockets offense. What is going to happen to the defense? Will the defense even be average anymore? Worse than average? Above average? Bad?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:43 am    Post subject:

He's there on a minimum deal. If he causes a problem he can be cut.

This is a bit different from OKC who traded for him and his ridiculous contract.

I think offensively Melo will be fine. Defensively, he is a big negative compared to Ariza/Luc.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:59 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
He's there on a minimum deal. If he causes a problem he can be cut.

His contract situation is definitly a positive. But that's about it. If can leave his ego somewhere in outer space and at least tries to play some defense Rocket fans will love him. Actually they seem to do so already now. Poor guys...
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:57 am    Post subject:

slavavov wrote:

Melo was not a good fit in OKC last season. But saying that a guy who averaged 10 assists a game the last couple seasons is not great at getting guys shots doesn't sound right to me.


I said he's not great at getting guys great shots. It's easy for Westbrook to rack up assists based on his volume, same as Harden (notice I didn't say he was great at getting guys great shots either, though I think he's also better at it than Westbrook).

slavavov wrote:

I'm skeptical about if Melo would fit on this team.
.

I'm not as skeptical because he's playing with his best friend, who just so happens to be one of the best in history at getting guys great shots. With Ariza and Anderson's shots, there will be plenty of shots to go around. But yes, it all depends on if he is willing to accept that role.

slavavov wrote:

I also wonder if the rest of the league will catch up to how Houston changed from an uptempo offense to a slower, iso-heavy offense.


I think the coach won't play the exact same way he played last year now that he has another option. That's the benefit of having a coach who knows offense. He and CP3 should be able to get the best out of him offensively if he buys in.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:58 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
Most posts are about the Rockets offense. What is going to happen to the defense? Will the defense even be average anymore? Worse than average? Above average? Bad?


OKC had a top 10 defense last season when Melo was on the court. How much the defense falls off without Ariza/Luc will depend on James Ennis. Again, Melo isn't there to replace Ariza/Luc. He's there to replace the no defending PF that has started the majority of his games for us over the past two seasons.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
Most posts are about the Rockets offense. What is going to happen to the defense? Will the defense even be average anymore? Worse than average? Above average? Bad?


OKC had a top 10 defense last season when Melo was on the court. How much the defense falls off without Ariza/Luc will depend on James Ennis. Again, Melo isn't there to replace Ariza/Luc. He's there to replace the no defending PF that has started the majority of his games for us over the past two seasons.


Carmelo had a DRPM of -1.25. He was 73rd out of 83 PFs. If OKC had a top 10 defense when he was on the court, it wasn't because of Carmelo.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:04 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
slavavov wrote:

Melo was not a good fit in OKC last season. But saying that a guy who averaged 10 assists a game the last couple seasons is not great at getting guys shots doesn't sound right to me.


I said he's not great at getting guys great shots. It's easy for Westbrook to rack up assists based on his volume, same as Harden (notice I didn't say he was great at getting guys great shots either, though I think he's also better at it than Westbrook).

slavavov wrote:

I'm skeptical about if Melo would fit on this team.
.

I'm not as skeptical because he's playing with his best friend, who just so happens to be one of the best in history at getting guys great shots. With Ariza and Anderson's shots, there will be plenty of shots to go around. But yes, it all depends on if he is willing to accept that role.

slavavov wrote:

I also wonder if the rest of the league will catch up to how Houston changed from an uptempo offense to a slower, iso-heavy offense.


I think the coach won't play the exact same way he played last year now that he has another option. That's the benefit of having a coach who knows offense. He and CP3 should be able to get the best out of him offensively if he buys in.

Those are very fair points. But offense wasn't really Houston's problem. If they needed to improve on something offensively, it's their 3-pt efficiency, where they ranked 13th. With all the 3s they shoot, I would've instead signed one or two dead-eye 3-pt shooters so that they won't go on a cold streak like they did in Game 7 of the WCF.

Melo may not be a bad 3-pt shooter when he's open, but he's not exactly a great one either. His shooting out there has always been up and down. He's not exactly the threat that Ryan Anderson is from downtown.

At the very least maybe Houston should change their philosophy and not shoot nearly as many 3s.

And we haven't even talked about defense that much. Without Ariza I would've looked to pick up a good wing defender to replace him. Even when he was in his prime Melo didn't seem to play much defense, and he definitely doesn't play any D these days.
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