What SG should start next to Lebron (poll)
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Who should start at SG?
KCP
60%
 60%  [ 84 ]
Josh Hart
40%
 40%  [ 56 ]
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lakerican
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:37 am    Post subject:

KCP will always start. Hart almost all the time will finish games with the exception when KCP is really hot, or Hart is really cold.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:00 am    Post subject:

I just don't think it matters that much who starts are who comes off the bench. It's having a solid rotation that matters.

Nobody ever thought less of Cooper because he came off the bench, dude was a stud and everyone knew it. He wasn't going to start over Magic or Nixon or Scott, but he always got his minutes and other players around the league respected his game.

Truth is, we got more guards than we know what to do with, Ball, Hart, KCP and Rondo are the basics. If they are all healthy, there will not be enough minutes for all of them. If anyone steps up, they will get the most minutes, I could actually see Ball getting the least even if he starts. Just for one more year while he is learning the ropes and honing his skills. I hope for him to surprise me!
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:05 pm    Post subject:

Fortnite? Hart
NBA? KCP
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:21 pm    Post subject:

Josh Hart is gonna be good as soon as this year, but people keep sleeping on KCP, he is still relatively very young, as a Laker fanatic I would love to see both Hart and Pope do good together rather debating which 1 is better, if both play well together we will be ALOT better as a team.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:54 pm    Post subject:

kball wrote:
Judah wrote:
I highly doubt that the FO was ”forced” to re-sign KCP. That's a pretty strange and unnecessarily presumptive theory. I also don't think KCP is guaranteed the starting spot simply because he's a Klutch client. You guys do realize that LeBron James is already a Laker, right? I don't see why appeasing Rich Paul would still be a necessity at this point. If KCP starts it'll be because he earned it.


Oh i don't know...
Maybe Rob wants to rightfully be seen as an executive with a reputation that agents and players want to be a part of because he makes good situations even better and tough situations tolerable?

Reputations are EARNED over the long term.
But DESTROYED in the blink of an eye

If we accept He and Magic are building something here, we need to watch the smaller moves as well as the larger ones

If KCP isn't here next season, or even at the end of this upcoming one, you can bet Rob first tries to move KCP to a contender or if that fails, to an also ran that guarantees a bunch of playing time so he rolls that into his next contract wherever that turns out

And of course its also possible KCP plays a crucial role in our upcoming season and playoffs as we hope to upset some tougher opponents

I'd guess he starts but like everything else with this team as constructed, i really don't know

You masterfully missed the point I was making. I wasn't implying in the smallest way that there isn't a place for appeasing agents through the way you treat their clients. That's an elementary concept that most well-reasoned folks understand about the business. What I was referring to was more so the perceived privilege that KCP had last season because the Lakers were presumably trying to rub elbows with Paul to set up their pursuit of LeBron. What I'm pushing back on is this assumption that people are making that that privilege will continue for the upcoming season, which is supposedly why KCP will be starting no matter what.

The Lakers have already succeeded in their goal of getting LeBron and they have him for a minimum of three seasons. To whatever degree that it was true that KCP enjoyed a certain privilege last season because he was a client of Paul, that is no longer the case because the Lakers have already met their bigger goal of getting LeBron. If you aren't able to understand the precise difference between what I'm saying and what you're saying, I don't think it's because I'm lacking in clarity. I think I'm being pretty clear and reasonable, and have yet to hear a worthwhile counter-argument that I can take seriously.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:02 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
Josh Hart is gonna be good as soon as this year, but people keep sleeping on KCP, he is still relatively very young, as a Laker fanatic I would love to see both Hart and Pope do good together rather debating which 1 is better, if both play well together we will be ALOT better as a team.


At what point did I wish that one wasn't successful? Defensively one is better than the other. Shooting wise one is better than the other. You want to maximize our best player this season. We need someone to be able to defend the best perimeter player on the opposing team. We also need a player who can knock down open 3s. Who's better at these skills? IMO Hart is capable of defending SG-small ball PFs shot a higher % ( on two less attempts ) better rebounder too.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:05 pm    Post subject:

Its not who starts, but who finishes.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:09 pm    Post subject:

Car54 wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Josh Hart is gonna be good as soon as this year, but people keep sleeping on KCP, he is still relatively very young, as a Laker fanatic I would love to see both Hart and Pope do good together rather debating which 1 is better, if both play well together we will be ALOT better as a team.


At what point did I wish that one wasn't successful? Defensively one is better than the other. Shooting wise one is better than the other. You want to maximize our best player this season. We need someone to be able to defend the best perimeter player on the opposing team. We also need a player who can knock down open 3s. Who's better at these skills? IMO Hart is capable of defending SG-small ball PFs shot a higher % ( on two less attempts ) better rebounder too.


1 thing that Hart has over Pope is his mass physical attributes, also Pope is a good rebounder when he wants to be, as we all saw he did a good job getting double digit rebounds.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:10 pm    Post subject:

KCP plays with a little bit more speed and burst which I think is a good fit in that starting 5. However, Hart and KCP are neck and neck in terms of players
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:37 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
I highly doubt that the FO was ”forced” to re-sign KCP. That's a pretty strange and unnecessarily presumptive theory. I also don't think KCP is guaranteed the starting spot simply because he's a Klutch client. You guys do realize that LeBron James is already a Laker, right? I don't see why appeasing Rich Paul would still be a necessity at this point. If KCP starts it'll be because he earned it.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:59 pm    Post subject:

Hart plays a more intelligent game, and he's proven himself every bit as trustworthy against NBA competition as KCP, as evidenced by how he closed games last year with a win on the line. Perhaps more trustworthy than KCP when you factor in decision making.

This idea Hart hasn't proven himself against NBA competition is flat out wrong.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:19 pm    Post subject:

I know who should get the most minutes next to LeBron at the 2 slot.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:39 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
I know who should get the most minutes next to LeBron at the 2 slot.

A secret?
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Last edited by Annihilator on Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:59 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:46 pm    Post subject:

TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
Hart plays a more intelligent game, and he's proven himself every bit as trustworthy against NBA competition as KCP, as evidenced by how he closed games last year with a win on the line. Perhaps more trustworthy than KCP when you factor in decision making.

This idea Hart hasn't proven himself against NBA competition is flat out wrong.

Agree. The summer league performance was just another example of the work he puts in. I have mentioned previously, if you put KCP's and Hart's salaries together into a single account and then paid both of them from that total amount based on their performances over the course of the season, how much would each of them earn? That could make for a very interesting result.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:55 pm    Post subject:

Hart does everything better than KCP.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:14 am    Post subject:

Annihilator wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
I know who should get the most minutes next to LeBron at the 2 slot.

A secret?


does he shoot 40% threes?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:29 am    Post subject:

The accepted inconsistency here is mind boggling. KAT, Ben Simmons, Embiid, and others are accepted as can't miss types because of what they did in college, or others based on what they did in workouts. Hart did it on an NBA floor, then clearly improved over the summer but because it wasn't against NBA players, it didn't happen. Are you kidding me? When from a standstill, he looked a defender in the eye, drove to his left, and dunked on him left handed, it was clearly something KCP could never do. He was named MVP because he showed he can penetrate at will in both directions, unlike last year, unlike KCP. His shot is clearly better than KCP.

A lot of people here are sleeping on Josh Hart. He's more than just a nice player who you consider throwing in for a malcontent rental like Butler. John Ireland said the Lakers are extremely high on Hart. For the poster who said KCP has more shake on his dribble, that's what Hart has been working on this summer, and we already saw it helped him win summer MVP..

KCP didn't seem to improve any aspect of his game last year. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't have reason to anticipate that he will be better than last year. Hart appears to be more focused and determined to improve his skill set

In the end, Lakers politics aren't going to win. LeBron's politics will win. He was at courtside loving what he saw Hart doing in the summer.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:20 am    Post subject:

lakersboy wrote:
The accepted inconsistency here is mind boggling. KAT, Ben Simmons, Embiid, and others are accepted as can't miss types because of what they did in college, or others based on what they did in workouts. Hart did it on an NBA floor, then clearly improved over the summer but because it wasn't against NBA players, it didn't happen. Are you kidding me? When from a standstill, he looked a defender in the eye, drove to his left, and dunked on him left handed, it was clearly something KCP could never do. He was named MVP because he showed he can penetrate at will in both directions, unlike last year, unlike KCP. His shot is clearly better than KCP.

A lot of people here are sleeping on Josh Hart. He's more than just a nice player who you consider throwing in for a malcontent rental like Butler. John Ireland said the Lakers are extremely high on Hart. For the poster who said KCP has more shake on his dribble, that's what Hart has been working on this summer, and we already saw it helped him win summer MVP..

KCP didn't seem to improve any aspect of his game last year. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't have reason to anticipate that he will be better than last year. Hart appears to be more focused and determined to improve his skill set

In the end, Lakers politics aren't going to win. LeBron's politics will win. He was at courtside loving what he saw Hart doing in the summer.


It's b/c coaches, unless directed by management, will tend to lean on and trust veterans. I don't think that's always a good thing but with KCP, I think Luke will initially do that.

Now, I have no illusions of KCP being our future SG, but for at least the first half, I have little doubt he starts.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:49 am    Post subject:

KCP...$12 million.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:39 am    Post subject:

I'm really not worried about who starts.

I think we all agree Hart is the future and depending on who we sign in 2019, he may be the starter then.

It's a GREAT problem to have two starter quality SGs, each with different strengths.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:02 am    Post subject:

lakersboy wrote:
The accepted inconsistency here is mind boggling. KAT, Ben Simmons, Embiid, and others are accepted as can't miss types because of what they did in college, or others based on what they did in workouts. Hart did it on an NBA floor, then clearly improved over the summer but because it wasn't against NBA players, it didn't happen. Are you kidding me? When from a standstill, he looked a defender in the eye, drove to his left, and dunked on him left handed, it was clearly something KCP could never do. He was named MVP because he showed he can penetrate at will in both directions, unlike last year, unlike KCP. His shot is clearly better than KCP.

A lot of people here are sleeping on Josh Hart. He's more than just a nice player who you consider throwing in for a malcontent rental like Butler. John Ireland said the Lakers are extremely high on Hart. For the poster who said KCP has more shake on his dribble, that's what Hart has been working on this summer, and we already saw it helped him win summer MVP..

KCP didn't seem to improve any aspect of his game last year. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't have reason to anticipate that he will be better than last year. Hart appears to be more focused and determined to improve his skill set

In the end, Lakers politics aren't going to win. LeBron's politics will win. He was at courtside loving what he saw Hart doing in the summer.


Seriously? The guy couldn't miss from 3-pt range after the ASB (42%; TS .601).
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:53 am    Post subject:

lakersboy wrote:
The accepted inconsistency here is mind boggling. KAT, Ben Simmons, Embiid, and others are accepted as can't miss types because of what they did in college, or others based on what they did in workouts. Hart did it on an NBA floor, then clearly improved over the summer but because it wasn't against NBA players, it didn't happen. Are you kidding me? When from a standstill, he looked a defender in the eye, drove to his left, and dunked on him left handed, it was clearly something KCP could never do. He was named MVP because he showed he can penetrate at will in both directions, unlike last year, unlike KCP. His shot is clearly better than KCP.

A lot of people here are sleeping on Josh Hart. He's more than just a nice player who you consider throwing in for a malcontent rental like Butler. John Ireland said the Lakers are extremely high on Hart. For the poster who said KCP has more shake on his dribble, that's what Hart has been working on this summer, and we already saw it helped him win summer MVP..

KCP didn't seem to improve any aspect of his game last year. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't have reason to anticipate that he will be better than last year. Hart appears to be more focused and determined to improve his skill set

In the end, Lakers politics aren't going to win. LeBron's politics will win. He was at courtside loving what he saw Hart doing in the summer.


wait you said kcp couldnt make that move that josh did in the spl? i think you havent watched enough tape on kcp.

in addition, you talk about he didnt improve. for one he was in jail half the time. what do you think going in and out of jail not being able to play consistent games and travel with the team would do to ones consistency and timing? it would harm a player a lot. which it did. the moment he was out of jail and could be more consistent with travelling with the team and playing games. all of a sudden he started looking a lot better. imagine if he had a full year of that( i know his fault he was in jail. thats not the point)?

i dont know who will end up being better at the end because to me both have nice upsides. LG is a place where we get so hyped off of a what have you done for me lately situation that we actually start to talk negatively about other laker players we dont even need to be negative about just to make our point correct.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:57 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
lakersboy wrote:
The accepted inconsistency here is mind boggling. KAT, Ben Simmons, Embiid, and others are accepted as can't miss types because of what they did in college, or others based on what they did in workouts. Hart did it on an NBA floor, then clearly improved over the summer but because it wasn't against NBA players, it didn't happen. Are you kidding me? When from a standstill, he looked a defender in the eye, drove to his left, and dunked on him left handed, it was clearly something KCP could never do. He was named MVP because he showed he can penetrate at will in both directions, unlike last year, unlike KCP. His shot is clearly better than KCP.

A lot of people here are sleeping on Josh Hart. He's more than just a nice player who you consider throwing in for a malcontent rental like Butler. John Ireland said the Lakers are extremely high on Hart. For the poster who said KCP has more shake on his dribble, that's what Hart has been working on this summer, and we already saw it helped him win summer MVP..

KCP didn't seem to improve any aspect of his game last year. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't have reason to anticipate that he will be better than last year. Hart appears to be more focused and determined to improve his skill set

In the end, Lakers politics aren't going to win. LeBron's politics will win. He was at courtside loving what he saw Hart doing in the summer.


wait you said kcp couldnt make that move that josh did in the spl? i think you havent watched enough tape on kcp.

in addition, you talk about he didnt improve. for one he was in jail half the time. what do you think going in and out of jail not being able to play consistent games and travel with the team would do to ones consistency and timing? it would harm a player a lot. which it did. the moment he was out of jail and could be more consistent with travelling with the team and playing games. all of a sudden he started looking a lot better. imagine if he had a full year of that( i know his fault he was in jail. thats not the point)?

i dont know who will end up being better at the end because to me both have nice upsides. LG is a place where we get so hyped off of a what have you done for me lately situation that we actually start to talk negatively about other laker players we dont even need to be negative about just to make our point correct.

yea im going to have to piggy back on this...
There seems to be a lot of undervaluing of kcp in this thread. We are lucky to have him, there are almost no proven scorers otherwise left on the squad. I think it is highly doubtful hart will outperform kcp. We have this love affair (suprise) with kuzma and hart right now that is going to be a big letdown for people expecting them to be stars.
We have these love affairs on one hand, and on the other hand, we don't think much of guys like KCP, Lou, Nick Young, Clarkson, etc....and the only trend i see there is that anytime someone shows a decent ability to score, we don't like them much. What is this, some kind of anti-kobe backlash? I don't get it. We valued Dlo over all those guys mentioned. We loved Randle, who basically sucks at shooting. We loved Nance, also sucks. Clarskson? Oh he was a ballhog, good riddance, black hole. Young? oh, he's a goof, good riddance, gimme someone with good defense and hustle lol (meanwhile, he was our best defender, and GSW uses him for defense lol). KCP? Will he be as good as Hart?? lol!
We love Lebron! basically the anti-Kobe as far as skills go. I can't wait until the first week and we see how he actually plays.

So how long until we get a shooter as good as Lou or Nick? Let's see. Either one of our guys will blossom into one, or we get one from outside. We had one in IT and he just left also, geez. We literally have nobody that we can say is an above average 3pt shooter on the NBA level. If lebron doesn't get the ref love that he usually does, we will be bricking and losing a lot. The way i see it with this squad, our entire strategy depends on how the officials call lebron.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:29 pm    Post subject:

Right now KCP can play the Byron Scott role pretty well. He shot over 38% from downtown last season and his TS% was 56%. Between New Year's and the end of March he shot well over 40% from downtown. He is an off-ball player, he finishes well in transition and his defense is somewhat underrated.

It's hard to predict how Hart's summer league performance will translate to the real NBA. I'm interested in seeing how much better he will be, but we need to make him earn his starting spot. Given that he has some ability to create his own shot, he seems better suited to come off the bench.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:51 pm    Post subject:

I don't care who starts but Hart should get more minutes because he's the better rebounder and if Lebron is going to play center, we're going to need Hart's rebounding in a small line-up.
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