Gilbert Arenas on How to Score on Anyone-Talking about kobe, Ingram, Lonzo, other Nba players
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:08 pm    Post subject: Gilbert Arenas on How to Score on Anyone-Talking about kobe, Ingram, Lonzo, other Nba players



Someone needs to pass this on to every young player in the league. But especially our young guys. specifically Ingram and zo. he's specifically talking about ingram and zo around the 35 to 40 mins mark or so.

I would advise anyone that loves the detail of basketball to listen to the entire thing/watch it as well. Gil is breaking it down to the Nth degree.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:21 pm    Post subject:

Good to see a former great player speak highly of our young guys.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:34 am    Post subject:

His comment about Lebron is the reason why i am not a fun asking Lebron to post up. Because that takes away all his advantage.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:34 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
Good to see a former great player speak highly of our young guys.
I would assume Gilbert is a laker fan he did graduate from Grant High in the Valley. So he probably watches laker games. But the stuff he's breaking down in this video could change any players approach to scoring and possibly defense. This is on some Kobe Detail show type of stuff.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:37 am    Post subject:

Bishop* wrote:
His comment about Lebron is the reason why i am not a fun asking Lebron to post up. Because that takes away all his advantage.
well i wouldnt say all because he's actually gotten better at his post ups in the past 2 seasons. If it was 3 or 4 years ago, I would agree.

Not sure how old you are bishop but when you put a guy in the post that can also pass well. its deadly. Go watch some youtube of magic or Gary payton in the post and watch how they manipulate the defense.

Even kobe in the post but kobe COULD pass but that wasnt his natural instinct. magic, bron, gp, these type of dudes are more floor generals by nature. So they are daring a team to double in the post.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:54 am    Post subject:

I'm about to throw our boy Jordan Clarkson under the bus a little bit.

As good of a player he is as a late pickup. What stops him from becoming a star like say a gilber arenas? It's not playing time. It's not the plays being ran for him or not being ran for him. It's him. he progressed but then it seemed as if he stopped progressing. Now its still early so he could figure it out and blossom like crazy. But notice something you heard Gil say in that video when talking about how to work out. We've all heard the kobe stories too.

This is something you can't see as a Scout or even us armchair scouts that dont actually know these guys personally. We can see talent, skill, length,size, athleticism. But we dont know how intelligent these guys are. Nor do we know how much they want to be the best and/or win.

If you have a super smart guy, but who isnt that serious about being the best. he's going to be a pretty good player but thats as far as its going to go even if he's super talented/skilled. you will see glimpses.

if the guy isnt the brightest guy but works his butt off. even if he was born with a ton of athleticism/size. you will see glimpses but he will never be able to put it all together.

Do i think clarkson is in the higher tier in basketball IQ? No.
Do i think clarkson is in the lower tier? No

he's some where in the middle.

Do i think clarkson wants to win like the crazy legends that wanted to win? No

Do i think clarkson wants to win more than a bunch of dudes thats just happy to be in the nba? Yes.

You add those two things together and you think about clarkson's body type/athletic ability and you realize hmmmm, he's a dime a dozen in the nba. Now if clarkson had the same two things above but he was 6'9, with a 7'5 wing span, uber athletic. The combination of that stuff with his average IQ and average desire to win among nba guys would be enough for him to be a borderline superstar for awhile.

This is the same thing with DLO. I think DLO actually had a higher Bball IQ than clarkson, but he was less athletic. I also think DLO wanted to win as much as clarkson or even a bit more so. But since his desire to win was not INSANE and crazy like a gil, like a kobe. and when i say win i dont just mean win rings. I mean win anything. win the matchup for the night(gil,kobe), win the game(gil, kobe), win it all(kobe.) So he doesnt have insane anything. So that means at best he' Kyle lowry. a darn good player./borderline allstar. Lowry can't lead your team to a championship. He can be apart of a ring team. but he can't be your #1 guy.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:09 am    Post subject:

And when Gil talked about Team Defense vs individual defense. And how that team defense forces the individual to play you the offensive guy a certain way means you always have the advantage if you already know how a TEAM(coaching staff) has been instructed to play you and your team. What is this coaches philosophy on defense. This means whatever the philosophy is, no matter how great of a defender an individual may be he can only do what the team is expecting him to do or else the entire team defense breaks down and the coach gets pissed. But playing this defense leaves the individual open to get burned by smart scorers like gil, kobe, etc. Can you stomach getting torched if you win the game? are you willing to let your ego go in order to win the game/the series? or does your coach have a defensive concept that isnt going to work vs this type of big time scorer because it hampers the best defender too much?

That is some serious chess playing right there.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:34 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
I'm about to throw our boy Jordan Clarkson under the bus a little bit.

As good of a player he is as a late pickup. What stops him from becoming a star like say a gilber arenas? It's not playing time. It's not the plays being ran for him or not being ran for him. It's him. he progressed but then it seemed as if he stopped progressing. Now its still early so he could figure it out and blossom like crazy. But notice something you heard Gil say in that video when talking about how to work out. We've all heard the kobe stories too.

This is something you can't see as a Scout or even us armchair scouts that dont actually know these guys personally. We can see talent, skill, length,size, athleticism. But we dont know how intelligent these guys are. Nor do we know how much they want to be the best and/or win.

If you have a super smart guy, but who isnt that serious about being the best. he's going to be a pretty good player but thats as far as its going to go even if he's super talented/skilled. you will see glimpses.

if the guy isnt the brightest guy but works his butt off. even if he was born with a ton of athleticism/size. you will see glimpses but he will never be able to put it all together.

Do i think clarkson is in the higher tier in basketball IQ? No.
Do i think clarkson is in the lower tier? No

he's some where in the middle.

Do i think clarkson wants to win like the crazy legends that wanted to win? No

Do i think clarkson wants to win more than a bunch of dudes thats just happy to be in the nba? Yes.

You add those two things together and you think about clarkson's body type/athletic ability and you realize hmmmm, he's a dime a dozen in the nba. Now if clarkson had the same two things above but he was 6'9, with a 7'5 wing span, uber athletic. The combination of that stuff with his average IQ and average desire to win among nba guys would be enough for him to be a borderline superstar for awhile.

This is the same thing with DLO. I think DLO actually had a higher Bball IQ than clarkson, but he was less athletic. I also think DLO wanted to win as much as clarkson or even a bit more so. But since his desire to win was not INSANE and crazy like a gil, like a kobe. and when i say win i dont just mean win rings. I mean win anything. win the matchup for the night(gil,kobe), win the game(gil, kobe), win it all(kobe.) So he doesnt have insane anything. So that means at best he' Kyle lowry. a darn good player./borderline allstar. Lowry can't lead your team to a championship. He can be apart of a ring team. but he can't be your #1 guy.


Didn’t Clarkson date a Kardashian that is probably why his NBA career went down hill after his rookie year.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:35 am    Post subject:

Gilbert would be perfect in our run & gun offense
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject:

Was not too impressed when he did the old "This is what's wrong with the NBA today" like every retired player says about the successive era, while simultaneously trying to criticize Steph for "bailing out" big men by shooting over them. He doesn't display a good understanding of modern day guard efficiency when he says probably the greatest 3-point shooter of all time shouldn't take an open shot worth three points when he has a slow big man on his heels.

Not a shocker though, he was a great and talented scorer, much of it based on speed and quickness, but never was never really a high IQ player. As evidenced by well known bone-headed incidents.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:16 am    Post subject:

Hellspawn wrote:
Was not too impressed when he did the old "This is what's wrong with the NBA today" like every retired player says about the successive era, while simultaneously trying to criticize Steph for "bailing out" big men by shooting over them. He doesn't display a good understanding of modern day guard efficiency when he says probably the greatest 3-point shooter of all time shouldn't take an open shot worth three points when he has a slow big man on his heels.

Not a shocker though, he was a great and talented scorer, much of it based on speed and quickness, but never was never really a high IQ player. As evidenced by well known bone-headed incidents.

What incidents?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:20 am    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
Hellspawn wrote:
Was not too impressed when he did the old "This is what's wrong with the NBA today" like every retired player says about the successive era, while simultaneously trying to criticize Steph for "bailing out" big men by shooting over them. He doesn't display a good understanding of modern day guard efficiency when he says probably the greatest 3-point shooter of all time shouldn't take an open shot worth three points when he has a slow big man on his heels.

Not a shocker though, he was a great and talented scorer, much of it based on speed and quickness, but never was never really a high IQ player. As evidenced by well known bone-headed incidents.

What incidents?


Probably talking about the Gun incident in the locker room
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:26 pm    Post subject:

splash, i usually agree, but i thought clarkson was worth keeping. he may not have a high bball iq, but that's hard for me to see given what he is playing with. I liked him, I don't know about a dime a dozen, I'd rate him a tad higher, but yes, currently in the league, a player like him can end up in that place.
I think the roster we have now reflects the desires of the fanbase that I've been seeing, and that i don't entirely agree with. We have swerved to desire almost all the anti-kobe traits....we don't want "selfish" scorers. We want "high bball iq" stuff, and like that white board says, a bunch of players who are good at things that do not require talent. Things like hard work, good teammates, defense first, rebounds...definitely not scoring. and here we are with the biggest star in the league supposedly and possibly the worst shooting team in the league. anyone who came by in the past 5 years who was even remotely good at shooting is gone now. Meeks, CLarkson, Lou, Nick, IT...if you can shoot, you're off the lakers. I am seriously thankful we even have kcp and beasley right now.

The fans have literally placed the shooting hopes of this team on kuzma and hart. I may be wrong, but our fans are expecting these two to somehow become curry, ray allen, klay, etc. types. good luck. i do not see anything like that. At best, I see the two of them having good stretches, but I do not see them carrying a championship team with their outside shooting.

sorry, may be a bit off topic, but the clarkson talk got me going. I wanted to keep him.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:33 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
Judah wrote:
Hellspawn wrote:
Was not too impressed when he did the old "This is what's wrong with the NBA today" like every retired player says about the successive era, while simultaneously trying to criticize Steph for "bailing out" big men by shooting over them. He doesn't display a good understanding of modern day guard efficiency when he says probably the greatest 3-point shooter of all time shouldn't take an open shot worth three points when he has a slow big man on his heels.

Not a shocker though, he was a great and talented scorer, much of it based on speed and quickness, but never was never really a high IQ player. As evidenced by well known bone-headed incidents.

What incidents?


Probably talking about the Gun incident in the locker room

Here: Link to article.
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Last edited by Annihilator on Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:58 pm    Post subject:

I thought that must've been what he was referring to but didn't want to assume. So since/if that's the case, that incident has no relationship with basketball IQ. Those two things are on totally different planets. Basketball IQ has to do with a player's understanding of the game. That's it.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:10 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
I thought that must've been what he was referring to but didn't want to assume. So since/if that's the case, that incident has no relationship with basketball IQ. Those two things are on totally different planets. Basketball IQ has to do with a player's understanding of the game. That's it.


Yeah he wasn't really known for either.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:19 pm    Post subject:

Hellspawn wrote:
Was not too impressed when he did the old "This is what's wrong with the NBA today" like every retired player says about the successive era, while simultaneously trying to criticize Steph for "bailing out" big men by shooting over them. He doesn't display a good understanding of modern day guard efficiency when he says probably the greatest 3-point shooter of all time shouldn't take an open shot worth three points when he has a slow big man on his heels.

Not a shocker though, he was a great and talented scorer, much of it based on speed and quickness, but never was never really a high IQ player. As evidenced by well known bone-headed incidents.


Yeah, I thought his analysis of Ingram & Lonzo was particularly poor.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:25 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Hellspawn wrote:
Was not too impressed when he did the old "This is what's wrong with the NBA today" like every retired player says about the successive era, while simultaneously trying to criticize Steph for "bailing out" big men by shooting over them. He doesn't display a good understanding of modern day guard efficiency when he says probably the greatest 3-point shooter of all time shouldn't take an open shot worth three points when he has a slow big man on his heels.

Not a shocker though, he was a great and talented scorer, much of it based on speed and quickness, but never was never really a high IQ player. As evidenced by well known bone-headed incidents.


Yeah, I thought his analysis of Ingram & Lonzo was particularly poor.


I didn't even make it that far in the video haha. Arenas is a nice guy though, chatted with him before, lives nearby I think.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:30 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Hellspawn wrote:
Was not too impressed when he did the old "This is what's wrong with the NBA today" like every retired player says about the successive era, while simultaneously trying to criticize Steph for "bailing out" big men by shooting over them. He doesn't display a good understanding of modern day guard efficiency when he says probably the greatest 3-point shooter of all time shouldn't take an open shot worth three points when he has a slow big man on his heels.

Not a shocker though, he was a great and talented scorer, much of it based on speed and quickness, but never was never really a high IQ player. As evidenced by well known bone-headed incidents.


Yeah, I thought his analysis of Ingram & Lonzo was particularly poor.


Yeah. He said Ingram plays small and I don’t think that at all. Who dribbles drives with the ball over their head? That’s impossible. Lol.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:38 am    Post subject:

lol what a surprise that you guys disagree with an elite scorer.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:43 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Hellspawn wrote:
Was not too impressed when he did the old "This is what's wrong with the NBA today" like every retired player says about the successive era, while simultaneously trying to criticize Steph for "bailing out" big men by shooting over them. He doesn't display a good understanding of modern day guard efficiency when he says probably the greatest 3-point shooter of all time shouldn't take an open shot worth three points when he has a slow big man on his heels.

Not a shocker though, he was a great and talented scorer, much of it based on speed and quickness, but never was never really a high IQ player. As evidenced by well known bone-headed incidents.


Yeah, I thought his analysis of Ingram & Lonzo was particularly poor.


Yeah. He said Ingram plays small and I don’t think that at all. Who dribbles drives with the ball over their head? That’s impossible. Lol.


Did he say to protect the ball over the head on his gather while driving? Because that’s exactly what Ingram usually does.. he even practices pre-game. Gil’s too ridiculous for me to listen to, he’s literally Swaggy P with talent and a gun
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:01 pm    Post subject:

arenas is a legit elite offensive player. the gun thing clouds everyones judgement, just like colorado for kobe. What is ridiculous about what he's saying? that's all great stuff there.

arenas is one of very very few guys that outdueled kobe one time during that year when he was on fire! the only other one i can remember is antawn jamison. it is a rare thing.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:44 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:


But we dont know how intelligent these guys are.


Uhh, disagree - I think it's pretty obvious that Jordan Clarkson was a (bleep) dummy.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:21 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Hellspawn wrote:
Was not too impressed when he did the old "This is what's wrong with the NBA today" like every retired player says about the successive era, while simultaneously trying to criticize Steph for "bailing out" big men by shooting over them. He doesn't display a good understanding of modern day guard efficiency when he says probably the greatest 3-point shooter of all time shouldn't take an open shot worth three points when he has a slow big man on his heels.

Not a shocker though, he was a great and talented scorer, much of it based on speed and quickness, but never was never really a high IQ player. As evidenced by well known bone-headed incidents.


Yeah, I thought his analysis of Ingram & Lonzo was particularly poor.


Yeah. He said Ingram plays small and I don’t think that at all. Who dribbles drives with the ball over their head? That’s impossible. Lol.


Did he say to protect the ball over the head on his gather while driving? Because that’s exactly what Ingram usually does.. he even practices pre-game. Gil’s too ridiculous for me to listen to, he’s literally Swaggy P with talent and a gun


No, he said Ingram needs to have the ball over his head when he gets in the lane, on the move. Not really sure how you do that without traveling. He was critiquing that Ingram cups the ball on the move.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:13 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Hellspawn wrote:
Was not too impressed when he did the old "This is what's wrong with the NBA today" like every retired player says about the successive era, while simultaneously trying to criticize Steph for "bailing out" big men by shooting over them. He doesn't display a good understanding of modern day guard efficiency when he says probably the greatest 3-point shooter of all time shouldn't take an open shot worth three points when he has a slow big man on his heels.

Not a shocker though, he was a great and talented scorer, much of it based on speed and quickness, but never was never really a high IQ player. As evidenced by well known bone-headed incidents.


Yeah, I thought his analysis of Ingram & Lonzo was particularly poor.


Yeah. He said Ingram plays small and I don’t think that at all. Who dribbles drives with the ball over their head? That’s impossible. Lol.
if you dont think ingram plays small. then you dont understand what playing small for a guy his length means.

I've known this since ingram came into the league. he plays like a smaller person. But he admitted in an interview to the reason why. Not that they asked him"why do you play small." they were asking him about his insane length and working with magic and the coaching staff on trying to really utilize it. He admitted to growing so quickly and basically out of no where becoming plastic man over night. Meant he still doesnt really realize how long he is. when he said that, I said Ohhhhh thats why he plays like that. It made perfectly good sense. Imagine if you were for fun sake...5'5 today, but by the time this time next year you're 6'4. Sure you would utilize some of your new found height, but you would not realllly know how to utilize vs a person that was 6'2 today and grew 2 more inches to become 6'4 this time next year. This is ingram's issue, that he has admitted to out of his own mouth. SO what gil just stated was on par with what ingram said about himself. Then if you pay attention to how other super long players play that didnt just get long last week. or guys that are finally use to their length(anthony davis, the greek is getting there, etc.) You would understand that ingram does not YET properly utilize his length on offense.

and what he specially stated about ingram folding himself up, then having to unpack himself is an exact example of what he does on offense. but the older he gets the less he does it. its not just about him getting stronger. its him realizing how long he is in comparison to guys in the rest of the league.
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