No rebounds, no rings
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slavavov
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:25 pm    Post subject: No rebounds, no rings

As much as I'm starting to love this Laker roster (at least on paper), I'm somewhat concerned about defense and rebounding. I think we'll be a great offensive team and average 110-115 a game. It also looks like Magic, Pelinka and Walton want us to be a hard core running team.

But as Pat Riley told Magic's showtime teams, no rebounds, no rings. Besides maybe Lebron, who else on this team is a good rebounder? Maybe McGee when he's in, but he can't play major minutes. I don't know if we can count on Zubac to do anything meaningful. Ball is a good rebounder for a guard, but he only good for about 6-7 rebounds a game. You can't run if you don't have the ball.

I also wonder if Magic and Pelinka are disregarding the center position and counting on having forwards just masquerading at the 5 for major minutes long term. If I'm them, then either next summer or by the trade deadline I'm looking to sign a C who is a good rebounder and rim protector, unless Zubac becomes exactly that this season. They don't necessarily need a Deandre Jordan or Clint Capela, but maybe someone who's on the next level down in those two departments.

Am I the only one who's concerned about rebounding, especially defensive rebounding? How will we be able to run teams out of the gym if we're not good at that?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:29 pm    Post subject:

We can become a good rebounding team by committee same for Defense, it’s a collective thing that the Lakers will need to have.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:32 pm    Post subject:

You forgot to mention Rondo, he’s a guy who can get double digit rebounds.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:47 pm    Post subject:

We were second in rebounding last season and we traded Julius for LeBron and all we need to do is exceed Lopez's four rebounds per game from our center by committee position. Seems doable to me.

Rondo rebounds better than IT or Caruso... upgrade there as well.

Free throws and threes were our weak spot, but I'm hoping LBJ and Svi helps with that.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:53 pm    Post subject:

Lebron and Zo are good rebounders. Kuz, Hart, KCP, and BI are all decent. I'm not too worried about it.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:59 pm    Post subject:

How did warriors do with rebounds?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:03 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
We were second in rebounding last season and we traded Julius for LeBron and all we need to do is exceed Lopez's four rebounds per game from our center by committee position. Seems doable to me.

Rondo rebounds better than IT or Caruso... upgrade there as well.

Free throws and threes were our weak spot, but I'm hoping LBJ and Svi helps with that.


Yup, these two are still the biggest areas of concern.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:08 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
We were second in rebounding last season and we traded Julius for LeBron and all we need to do is exceed Lopez's four rebounds per game from our center by committee position. Seems doable to me.

Rondo rebounds better than IT or Caruso... upgrade there as well.

Free throws and threes were our weak spot, but I'm hoping LBJ and Svi help with that.

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Luminous8
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:27 pm    Post subject:

People tend to forget also how good of a rebounder Stephenson is. That dude gets boards. Beasley is no slouch either. I'd expect a better year from.Kuz as well. Gang rebounding will be the theme and I fully expect everyone to buy in.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:27 pm    Post subject:

What you don't seem to be factoring in is how much the game has changed and how it impacts rebounding. Teams shoot a bunch of threes now. A bunch. And as they say, 'long shot, long rebound.' You don't necessarily need a huge guy in the paint who can gobble up boards for you to be an elite rebounding team in today's league. A decade or so ago (let alone over 30 years ago during the Showtime era) teams still valued mid range shots and ran their offense through the post, which means there weren't too many long rebounds. But now many of the rebounds are long because of the high volume of three point attempts.

LeBron will lead the team in rebounds and Lonzo will most likely be second. Hart is an elite rebounder amongst guards and Rondo has always been a good rebounding guard throughout his career. Lance is a pretty strong wing and one of several guys on this team who are consistent triple double threats (LeBron, Lonzo, and Rondo being the others), which requires a knack for rebounds. Kuz has also gotten a lot stronger this offseason (per Luke and Miles Simon), so I wouldn't be surprised if his rebounding is better since he'll be able to battle in traffic a little more than he did last year. But all in all, I think the rebounding will be fine. If anything they'll probably be among the best, if not the best. It's not an area of concern for me at all.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:35 pm    Post subject:

Luminous8 wrote:
People tend to forget also how good of a rebounder Stephenson is. That dude gets boards. Beasley is no slouch either. I'd expect a better year from.Kuz as well. Gang rebounding will be the theme and I fully expect everyone to buy in.


we were a great rebounding team last year with Lopez being a very poor rebounder, now we have guys who bring effort on that end.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:46 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
How did warriors do with rebounds?

https://stats.nba.com/teams/traditional/?sort=REB&dir=1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2018_ratings.html

GS 17th rebounding
GS 10th in opponent field goal shooting percentage
GS 12th in defensive rating

Hmm so it's some (bleep) adage that doesn't matter
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:58 pm    Post subject:

Raijin wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
How did warriors do with rebounds?

https://stats.nba.com/teams/traditional/?sort=REB&dir=1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2018_ratings.html

GS 17th rebounding
GS 10th in opponent field goal shooting percentage
GS 12th in defensive rating

Hmm so it's some (bleep) adage that doesn't matter

I think it depends on the team. The Laker's offense during Riley's time was centered on the fast break. Getting a defensive rebound started the offense. If the other team made a basket, the Lakers usually did not run. So, no rebounds meant no fast breaks and the Lakers had to go to offensive Plan B that involved Kareem trotting down the court.

The Warriors offense is not centered on running fast breaks so rebounding is not as important in starting their offense.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:36 pm    Post subject:

Raijin wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
How did warriors do with rebounds?

https://stats.nba.com/teams/traditional/?sort=REB&dir=1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2018_ratings.html

GS 17th rebounding
GS 10th in opponent field goal shooting percentage
GS 12th in defensive rating

Hmm so it's some (bleep) adage that doesn't matter


They were top 5 in defensive boards.

Bottom 5 in offensive.

The adage has some truth to it, it’s just not the be all end all.
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Sentient Meat
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:40 pm    Post subject:

Hard to get offensive boards when you never miss...lol
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:16 pm    Post subject:

I think you are forgetting we have Josh Barkley on the team.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:16 pm    Post subject:

im more concerned about being the worst shooting team in the league. we'll have loads of rebounds, at least offensive ones. the real bad sign would be if we were not just the worst shooting team in the league, but also the worst offensive rebounding team. that'll be the formula for doom.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:56 pm    Post subject:

Losing Randle was a considerable loss in terms of rebounding, but otherwise, Lopez boxed out on behalf of the team but didn't grab a high defensive rebound number. The team rebounds as a unit.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:00 pm    Post subject:

How do small lineups work if rebounding was an issue? The Warriors use small lineup all the time. If you have a small lineup in with a threat for fastbreaks, then the opposing team would not be so aggressive at trying to grab the offensive boards and set their players back in position to defend the fastbreaks better.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:04 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Losing Randle was a considerable loss in terms of rebounding, but otherwise, Lopez boxed out on behalf of the team but didn't grab a high defensive rebound number. The team rebounds as a unit.


If LeBron wants he can grab rebounds like Randle but he is so good at scoring and passing and rebounding that he can do all 3 at the same time.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:34 pm    Post subject:

Riley's adage was disproved by Riley's 2012-2013 Heat, ironically. Outside of James, no one could rebound.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:06 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Losing Randle was a considerable loss in terms of rebounding, but otherwise, Lopez boxed out on behalf of the team but didn't grab a high defensive rebound number. The team rebounds as a unit.


If LeBron wants he can grab rebounds like Randle but he is so good at scoring and passing and rebounding that he can do all 3 at the same time.


Sustained motor like that doesn't work for guys past age 32 unless it's the one thing they do best.

GT had mentioned before on a podcast that LeBron found ways to rest in the middle of the game, and was essentially running it at a walking pace.

Gotta find an alternative.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:11 pm    Post subject:

Lonzo and Hart both MONSTER rebounders at their positions.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:13 pm    Post subject: Re: No rebounds, no rings

slavavov wrote:
Am I the only one who's concerned about rebounding, especially defensive rebounding? How will we be able to run teams out of the gym if we're not good at that?


I am less concerned with defensive rebounding than with interior defense in general. It is a mistake to conflate the two. Just because you have a rebounding big man (say, Kevin Love in his Minneapolis days) does not mean that you are a good defensive rebounding team. A defensive rebound can go anywhere. Everyone has a role in getting the rebounds. You can be a good rebounding team without a dominant big man.

Interior defense is a different kettle of fish. JaVale McGee hasn't averaged more than 11.5 mpg since 2014. On a per 36 basis, he averaged 5.3 fouls per game last year. That's disturbing.

It isn't necessarily a question of opposing centers lighting it up against us. There aren't that many teams who can play that way in this era. People forget that post entry passes are not simple, and most centers are picked for their defense anyway. However, we may have zero rim protection. Some of our games may turn into layup drills for the other team.

That's the possibility that disturbs me, not the rebounding issue.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:13 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Losing Randle was a considerable loss in terms of rebounding, but otherwise, Lopez boxed out on behalf of the team but didn't grab a high defensive rebound number. The team rebounds as a unit.


losing randle, gaining lebron.

it's a wash in the rebounding category. in addition a good 1 of randle's 2 offensive boards was him rebounding his own miss.
lopez avg 4 a game at like 20 mins + per game. javale averaged 2.6 at 10 mins per game. you do the math. we didnt lose a thing in rebounding.
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