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DaMuleRules
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 Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | My question for you is whether you think it does any good to go on rants about white people. I see a lot of this on the left. White people are evil homophobic bigots. Men are violent sexist abusers of women. If we could just purge white men from existence, the world would be a better place. Do you actually think that this kind of divisiveness accomplishes anything? |
And my question for you is do you think it does any good to engage in that kind of intellectual dishonesty?
No one said anything remotely even like that. Nor has one has said, "White people are evil homophobic bigots". People have simply pointed out there is a segment of white society that exhibit those traits, and they have become quite vocal lately. No one has even hinted that it is all white people (and many of the people pointing it out are white themselves). It's comically and disgustingly ironic how you attempt to attack the left for making sweeping statements that haven't been made when you engage in some of the grossest examples of hyperbolic nonsense of anyone.
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Some day we will all share similar skin color and race will be "human" |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | My question for you is whether you think it does any good to go on rants about white people. I see a lot of this on the left. White people are evil homophobic bigots. Men are violent sexist abusers of women. If we could just purge white men from existence, the world would be a better place. Do you actually think that this kind of divisiveness accomplishes anything? |
And my question for you is do you think it does any good to engage in that kind of intellectual dishonesty?
No one said anything remotely even like that. Nor has one has said, "White people are evil homophobic bigots". People have simply pointed out there is a segment of white society that exhibit those traits, and they have become quite vocal lately. No one has even hinted that it is all white people (and many of the people pointing it out are white themselves). It's comically and disgustingly ironic how you attempt to attack the left for making sweeping statements that haven't been made when you engage in some of the grossest examples of hyperbolic nonsense of anyone. |
This is the same justification used by bigots. “I’m not saying they’re all that way, just some of em”.
I think both sides could come a long way if they’d stop that kind of stuff. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | This is the same justification used by bigots. “I’m not saying they’re all that way, just some of em”. |
“Some of my best friends are white people.”
I don’t mean to take this to an extreme. I’m not saying that people on the left are a bunch of raging maniacs who want to persecute white people. However, the left has an enormous blind spot when it comes to its attitudes toward various groups of people. The left demonizes groups of people it dislikes (white people, southerners and more generally people from “flyover country,” Christians) while treating treating other groups (racial minorities and women) as captive demographics.
Anyway, this thread is about Nike. I really don’t have a problem with people who want to canonize Colin Kaepernick, even if I think it’s misguided. But I do have a problem with Nike marketing its shoes by appealing to an aspect of our national dysfunctionality. |
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governator
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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U lawyers are too skillful at debates!!!
We went from talking about blacks being victim of police brutality with Colin/Nike news... end up with Whites being the victim! Spin Master level: KellyAnn Conway |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | U lawyers are too skillful at debates!!!
We went from talking about blacks being victim of police brutality with Colin/Nike news... end up with Whites being the victim! Spin Master level: KellyAnn Conway |
What about the commercials original intent, JUST DO IT? Anytime CK is mentioned the message is smothered.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | U lawyers are too skillful at debates!!!
We went from talking about blacks being victim of police brutality with Colin/Nike news... end up with Whites being the victim! Spin Master level: KellyAnn Conway |
Imagine me flashing my middle finger at you. I am much better than Kellyanne Conway.
Seriously, I'm not saying that white people are the victims of anything. I'm saying that demonizing white people, men, Christians, heterosexuals, or whoever is not fundamentally different from demonizing minorities, feminists, immigrants, homosexuals, or whoever. These are just different flavors of hate and anger. This is an era of dysfunctionality that we need to move past. We are not going to move past it because one side "wins." Eventually, we're going to move past it because society as a whole stops letting the zealots control the agenda.
Nike, however, sees this as a way to make a fast buck. To hell with Nike. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | U lawyers are too skillful at debates!!!
We went from talking about blacks being victim of police brutality with Colin/Nike news... end up with Whites being the victim! Spin Master level: KellyAnn Conway |
AH actually makes KellyAnn look downright respectable in the Spin department, and Conway is completely inept.
I get it though. When you are a middle aged white guy who is confronted with a changing world that threatens the entitlement you have grown accustom to, it's a scary thing. And I say that as a fellow middle aged white guy. Some people just react to it better than others. AH tries to present himself as an intelligent and compassionate being. If that's true, that will show up eventually.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now
Last edited by DaMuleRules on Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:49 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: |
Seriously, I'm not saying that white people are the victims of anything. |
Yeah, you did. As a simple scan of the thread will reveal.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:51 am Post subject: |
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I’m not moderating this thread because I’m a participant, and I apologize if I’ve been too personal, but can we stick to attacking arguments and positions, not calling people names?
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Anyway, this thread is about Nike. I really don’t have a problem with people who want to canonize Colin Kaepernick, even if I think it’s misguided. But I do have a problem with Nike marketing its shoes by appealing to an aspect of our national dysfunctionality. |
Nike has been doing that at least since 1992 with their "If You Let Them Play" campaign which appealed to an aspect of our national dysfunctionality (gender equality). So why wait 26 years to voice your problem with Nike capitalizing on social issues unless there is something specific to this social issue. Regardless, this is a trend in advertising that hundreds of companies have used (to varying degrees) and is still gaining traction:
The hottest trend in advertising: a social cause |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | I’m not moderating this thread because I’m a participant, and I apologize if I’ve been too personal, but can we stick to attacking arguments and positions, not calling people names? |
I've only just read this page, but based on this page alone, very well stated.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Anyway, this thread is about Nike. I really don’t have a problem with people who want to canonize Colin Kaepernick, even if I think it’s misguided. But I do have a problem with Nike marketing its shoes by appealing to an aspect of our national dysfunctionality. |
Nike has been doing that at least since 1992 with their "If You Let Them Play" campaign which appealed to an aspect of our national dysfunctionality (gender equality). So why wait 26 years to voice your problem with Nike capitalizing on social issues unless there is something specific to this social issue. Regardless, this is a trend in advertising that hundreds of companies have used (to varying degrees) and is still gaining traction:
The hottest trend in advertising: a social cause |
I don’t have a problem with using social issues. I’d like to buy the world a Coke, right? Sometimes it backfires (hello, Kendall Jenner), but that’s a different matter. I do have a problem with appealing to divisiveness. |
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Anyway, this thread is about Nike. I really don’t have a problem with people who want to canonize Colin Kaepernick, even if I think it’s misguided. But I do have a problem with Nike marketing its shoes by appealing to an aspect of our national dysfunctionality. |
Nike has been doing that at least since 1992 with their "If You Let Them Play" campaign which appealed to an aspect of our national dysfunctionality (gender equality). So why wait 26 years to voice your problem with Nike capitalizing on social issues unless there is something specific to this social issue. Regardless, this is a trend in advertising that hundreds of companies have used (to varying degrees) and is still gaining traction:
The hottest trend in advertising: a social cause |
I don’t have a problem with using social issues. I’d like to buy the world a Coke, right? Sometimes it backfires (hello, Kendall Jenner), but that’s a different matter. I do have a problem with appealing to divisiveness. |
Racism is divisive but sexism is not? |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Racism is divisive but sexism is not? |
Colin Kaepernick and kneeling for the national anthem are divisive. I’m not sure what you are referring to about sexism. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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I think I understand AH better after listening to Dave Zirin’s podcast about this issue. Not exactly what AH is saying per se but close to it.
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Racism is divisive but sexism is not? |
Colin Kaepernick and kneeling for the national anthem are divisive. I’m not sure what you are referring to about sexism. |
| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Nike has been doing that at least since 1992 with their "If You Let Them Play" campaign which appealed to an aspect of our national dysfunctionality (gender equality). |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Racism is divisive but sexism is not? |
Colin Kaepernick and kneeling for the national anthem are divisive. I’m not sure what you are referring to about sexism. |
If KP was kneeling to protest the lack of medical and support benefits given to veterans (which is a crime btw), neither Kap nor kneeling for the national anthem would be particularly divisive.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Racism is divisive but sexism is not? |
Colin Kaepernick and kneeling for the national anthem are divisive. |
OK. So explain how it's divisive. And do so without engaging in your own divineness. As you've told us over and over, you're a slick lawyer. Shouldn't be much of a challenge for you.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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governator
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Racism is divisive but sexism is not? |
Colin Kaepernick and kneeling for the national anthem are divisive. I’m not sure what you are referring to about sexism. |
If KP was kneeling to protest the lack of medical and support benefits given to veterans (which is a crime btw), neither Kap nor kneeling for the national anthem would be particularly divisive. |
If the anger/backlash is not due to the flag kneeling, what are y'all mad at? |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Racism is divisive but sexism is not? |
Colin Kaepernick and kneeling for the national anthem are divisive. I’m not sure what you are referring to about sexism. |
| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Nike has been doing that at least since 1992 with their "If You Let Them Play" campaign which appealed to an aspect of our national dysfunctionality (gender equality). |
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Seriously? You really think that is analogous? If suppose "I'd like to buy the world a Coke" falls into that category, too.
If you really can't see the point, then I'm not going to fix the problem by throwing more words at you. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Racism is divisive but sexism is not? |
Colin Kaepernick and kneeling for the national anthem are divisive. I’m not sure what you are referring to about sexism. |
If KP was kneeling to protest the lack of medical and support benefits given to veterans (which is a crime btw), neither Kap nor kneeling for the national anthem would be particularly divisive. |
So what is your point? |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Racism is divisive but sexism is not? |
Colin Kaepernick and kneeling for the national anthem are divisive. I’m not sure what you are referring to about sexism. |
If KP was kneeling to protest the lack of medical and support benefits given to veterans (which is a crime btw), neither Kap nor kneeling for the national anthem would be particularly divisive. |
So what is your point? |
That the divisive part is what he’s kneeling about.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Racism is divisive but sexism is not? |
Colin Kaepernick and kneeling for the national anthem are divisive. I’m not sure what you are referring to about sexism. |
If KP was kneeling to protest the lack of medical and support benefits given to veterans (which is a crime btw), neither Kap nor kneeling for the national anthem would be particularly divisive. |
So what is your point? |
That the divisive part is what he’s kneeling about. |
Sure, it’s all connected. Kaepernick was (or at least claimed to be) kneeling during the national anthem to protest police violence against black people. I am not sure what point you are trying to make. It was Hector who was arguing that the Nike commercials have nothing to do with race. At least, that’s what I think he was saying. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:31 am Post subject: |
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Hector can argue his own point, and you with him. Stick with me here, and the arguments you have made that I’m addressing. Your assertion is that who Kaepernick is (a disgruntled guy who is by your implication not genuinely protesting what he’s protesting) and the manner in which he’s protesting (kneeling during the national anthem) and the duration of the protests are the reason people (at least reasonable people, I believe you would allow that racists would hate such a protest in any form) are divided. I’m positing that those are not really the issues at play. What is dividing people is the content of the protest. And I posited a protest by Kaepernick doing the same thing that the vast swaths of the same people who are disgusted by him would either not mind or totally support, as an illustration of this position.
As a side note, most football experts believe that Kaepernick is well within the skill and talent level to be in the league, ranging from borderline starter to solid backup. And further, many of the men who have joined him are or were starting level players when they began to kneel, so the narrative that this is all about one guy’s disgruntlement rings hollow.
Every significant organized protest by or on behalf of black people in this country seeking equal treatment by the agencies of government has been received in this way by a significant portion of the population, with most of the same dismissals and attacks on the character and motives of the leaders of the protest, the methods, and the divisiveness of it all.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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