SI: Top 100 players in the NBA
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KungPau
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:46 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
KungPau wrote:
Terrible top 100 list so far. But I can't really expect anything good to come from SI these days.


SI has a lot of relevant guys on that site like Lee Jenkins for example.


There's always a few diamonds hidden in the trash. But as an overall product, there's a reason I stopped subscribing to SI after 15 years.
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Inspector Gadget
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:49 am    Post subject:

KungPau wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
KungPau wrote:
Terrible top 100 list so far. But I can't really expect anything good to come from SI these days.


SI has a lot of relevant guys on that site like Lee Jenkins for example.


There's always a few diamonds hidden in the trash. But as an overall product, there's a reason I stopped subscribing to SI after 15 years.


FWIW, The only frustrating thing I recall with SI is when they thought the Lakers were gonna be fun in the 2012 season but it ended up being one of the frustrating seasons in Lakers history.. they do have quality stuff though. This list seems more like something to get the Laker fans rattled up.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:59 am    Post subject:

cyborgspider wrote:
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Meh. Same ol' story: some publication wants clicks, so they rag on the Lakers. No need to get worked up. Good thing the games aren't decided by blogger/writer rankings.

Just curious though, where were they at last year?


How does that work? How does ragging on Lakers generate more clicks?


It gets posted on Reddit. Lakers twitter. Popular Laker bloggers/internet personalities like Ry Cole, Anthony Irwin, Harrison Faigen, Darius Soriano, etc etc, get roped into either defending the players or defending the author.

The link goes around and around and around, it gets talked about on Locked On Lakers or Lakers Nation podcast. All the while, raking in clicks so casual fans and hardcore fans alike can read the article and see what all the hub-bub is about.

*EDIT: OH, and yeah, also, Inspector Gadget posting the link on a Lakers site and as of my writing, the thread has 1000 Views, so I know SOME of you clicked on it that wouldn't otherwise. That's how it generates more clicks, Long Beach Poly.


1,000 views. That’s alot.
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greenfrog
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:03 am    Post subject:

I'm sorry, what is controversial or offensive about the list? Are we pissed they're underselling or overselling certain Lakers?
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Inspector Gadget
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:16 am    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
I'm sorry, what is controversial or offensive about the list? Are we pissed they're underselling or overselling certain Lakers?


They have Josh Richardson ranked higher then BI and Lonzo, ask anyone out of Miami who that guy is and they probably won’t know.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:17 am    Post subject:

diando wrote:
I'll be the skeptical one here, and yes my signature does play a role into this opinion, it feels like they're marginalizing our young guns to prop up LeBron or to give him a potential excuse. Our young guns are not scrubs, especially not Kuzma.


There is a distinction between what fans hope that a young player may become and what a young player has actually done. Because of his defense, Ball ranked #90 in RPM last year. Kuzma ranked #305. We shall see whether Kuzma lives up to the hopes of Laker fans. Putting him in the top 100 at this point would have been silly.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:28 am    Post subject:

chantruong wrote:
Where's Spencer? Top 50?


SI would not insult our intelligence by ranking Spencer. This is a “best of the rest” list.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:50 am    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:


Only 4 players have averaged 10/7/7. One is a HOFer, one is the best player in the world, one was the rookie of the year, and the other is Lonzo. Fairly historic. And I’m not even gonna get into defense if that is your opinion. Guys his own size aren’t the ones who give him issues.



Yeah, but that's just playing with numbers.

The other rookies were:

Ben Simmons 18-8-8
Oscar Robertson 30-10-10
Magic Johnson 18-8-7

Ball didn't have a rookie season close to any of those guys. You are just making an arbitrary cutoff of 10-7-7 to group him with those three.

Heck, you make the cutoff 17-6-6 and suddenly Michael Carter-Williams is one of the four. I could make a billion different cutoffs like that, but there is nothing magical about 10-7-7.


Last edited by activeverb on Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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Inspector Gadget
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:56 am    Post subject:

You’re last post is ridiculous, Ball only made the 2nd rookie team because he played 50 games but most NBA peers thought he had Impact...
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:02 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
You’re last post is ridiculous, Ball only made the 2nd rookie team because he played 50 games but most NBA peers thought he had Impact...


Sure, he had a certain amount of impact and played well for a rookie. It's just ridiculous to say his rookie season was "historic" just because you found three statistical categories that you cut off at an arbitrary point to group him with three guys who were far superior as rookies.

I like Ball, but let's be real and not pretend his rookie season rivaled Magic's and Oscar Robertson's.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:10 am    Post subject:

I agree that he came no where close to the Impact Magic and Robertson had as a rookie, but still Impressive what he did, we probably make the playoffs if he plays at least 65 games, that’s Impressive..
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:37 am    Post subject:

I noticed that SI had a “snubs” section for players who did not make the top 100. Some of this is interesting.

Let’s start with UNSPEAKABLE HERESY:

Quote:
SPENCER DINWIDDIE, NETS

As a general rule, any player shooting worse than 40% from the field needs some undeniable contributions to make the cut. Dinwiddie (12.6 PPG, 3.2 RPG, 6.6 APG) falls short. He was so often the best thing the Nets had going last season, which in a sense was part of the problem; a lack of shot creators clearly forced Dinwiddie into a larger role than is most comfortable. What makes his assessment more difficult than most is his limited body of work. The best we’ve ever seen Dinwiddie play came in a starting role he wouldn’t have had under normal circumstances, gunning his way through the season because there were no better options. It was a strange year. On-court impact made him a borderline case, regardless, though a more efficient season could help punch his ticket. — RM


Casey P made the list:

Quote:
KENTAVIOUS CALDWELL-POPE, LAKERS

In the right light, Caldwell-Pope (13.4 PPG, 5.2 RPG, 2.2 APG) looks like a nice, up-and-coming three-and-D wing. Reality is more sobering. Last year was the first above-average three-point shooting season of Caldwell-Pope’s career and also his most negligent defensively. He’s had good shooting days and impressive defensive performances, but rarely do they seem to coincide; the most crucial dimensions of Caldwell-Pope’s play are simply too erratic to be reliable. This would seem rather inconvenient for a team with playoff aspirations, as the Lakers may soon find. Caldwell-Pope doesn’t lack for ability—only the consistency of performance and focus common to the NBA’s best role players. — RM


Kuzma made the list:

Quote:
KYLE KUZMA, LAKERS

Kuzma (16.1 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 1.8 APG) was a fantastic find by the Lakers at No. 27 in the 2017 draft, but he’s probably become a touch overrated. During a stellar rookie season, he drew rave reviews as a confident scorer and a textbook stretch four, hitting threes in volume and attacking mismatches from the perimeter. Less discussed? The fact that Kuzma had an unremarkable impact on his team’s offensive efficiency, and that he was a minus defender who lacks both the lateral quickness to handle wings and the length to be an interior force. If he was 19, a generous observer might be able to project him developing into a two-way contributor. Kuzma is already 23, though, and appears destined to become a situational frontcourt scorer with the ability to break open a game when he’s hot. — BG


Finally, Rondo made the list:

Quote:
RAJON RONDO, LAKERS

Even more damning than Rondo’s difficult personality is his difficult fit. Not everyone in the Top 100 is a model employee, but all of them make more sense than Rondo (8.3 PPG, 4.0 RPG, 8.2 APG) for the league at large. Building lineups around a point guard who outright refuses to shoot is brutal business; not only does Rondo’s team have to load up with shooting at every other position to stay afloat, they have to reckon with defenses that (rightly) never take the threat of Rondo’s scoring seriously. Frankly, Rondo’s passing—impressive as it is—isn’t worth the trouble. There are just too many quality point guards out there to dwell on Rondo, who tends to complicate every facet of running a team. — RM
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:54 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:


Only 4 players have averaged 10/7/7. One is a HOFer, one is the best player in the world, one was the rookie of the year, and the other is Lonzo. Fairly historic. And I’m not even gonna get into defense if that is your opinion. Guys his own size aren’t the ones who give him issues.



Yeah, but that's just playing with numbers.

The other rookies were:

Ben Simmons 18-8-8
Oscar Robertson 30-10-10
Magic Johnson 18-8-7

Ball didn't have a rookie season close to any of those guys. You are just making an arbitrary cutoff of 10-7-7 to group him with those three.

Heck, you make the cutoff 17-6-6 and suddenly Michael Carter-Williams is one of the four. I could make a billion different cutoffs like that, but there is nothing magical about 10-7-7.


I understand it’s arbitrary. I was simply pointing out that he had historic numbers. I guess you could say MCW had historical stats his rookie year too if your statement is true. I never said he was as good as those guys.

With that said, it’s no more arbitrary than saying he sucks simply because of his shooting percentages. That statement and mine ignore huge aspects of basketball.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:57 am    Post subject:

diando wrote:
Judah wrote:
diando wrote:
I'll be the skeptical one here, and yes my signature does play a role into this opinion, it feels like they're marginalizing our young guns to prop up LeBron or to give him a potential excuse. Our young guns are not scrubs, especially not Kuzma.

Can't make this stuff up. Incredible.

Well excuse me for holding a consistent view. I don't just automatically recant just because somebody is a Laker, especially when I campaigned for a whole year for that certain someone to not to sign with the Lakers.
This someone who was mentioned earlier, has a reputation of trying to control narratives.I for one did not sit through the Robert Sacre years for someone to come in to try to piggyback on certain narratives, especially ones related to Laker-lore, as well as ones that will probably diminish the contributions of our young core.

So you want credit for being consistent in your bias towards LeBron? Um, no.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:07 pm    Post subject:

did they list the top 30? I only see 100-31
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:48 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:


I understand it’s arbitrary. I was simply pointing out that he had historic numbers. I guess you could say MCW had historical stats his rookie year too if your statement is true. I never said he was as good as those guys.

With that said, it’s no more arbitrary than saying he sucks simply because of his shooting percentages. That statement and mine ignore huge aspects of basketball.


Yup, in Carter-Williams rookie season he was one of only three guys to average 16-6-6. Simmons joined them this year. I wouldn't call that "historic" in the way most people use the term (an event that is consequential or significant). However, it's a fun statistical curiosity. Anyway, I don't want to devolve into a semantics debate, so I will leave it at that.
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El Seano
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:41 am    Post subject:

diando wrote:

Well excuse me for holding a consistent view. I don't just automatically recant just because somebody is a Laker, especially when I campaigned for a whole year for that certain someone to not to sign with the Lakers.
This someone who was mentioned earlier, has a reputation of trying to control narratives.I for one did not sit through the Robert Sacre years for someone to come in to try to piggyback on certain narratives, especially ones related to Laker-lore, as well as ones that will probably diminish the contributions of our young core.


Well, what did you sit through the Robert Sacre years for? What would you have preferred to FO do this season?

I ask this in the utmost sincerity because I don't think I've seen anybody on here or on Reddit as vehemently opposed to us signing LeBron as you are. If it isn't a personal agenda you have against the man then I'm curious as to what you think we should have done instead.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:38 am    Post subject:

Klay outside top 20, PG13 over Kawhi... interesting
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:45 am    Post subject:

Mos def Ingram will be moving up there after this season
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:51 am    Post subject:

Okay I will say it... Al Horford at #16 LOL!!!! A 32 yr old vet that averaged less than 13 ppg last season and his impact is the only reason why he is ranked 16? I understand that stats lie, but if we brought on the 16th best player in the NBA on the Lakers is he going to impact our team that much???
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:55 am    Post subject:

roastem00 wrote:
Okay I will say it... Al Horford at #16 LOL!!!! A 32 yr old vet that averaged less than 13 ppg last season and his impact is the only reason why he is ranked 16? I understand that stats lie, but if we brought on the 16th best player in the NBA on the Lakers is he going to impact our team that much???


He is actually criminally underrated. I think he's a top 20 player. Take him away from the Celts and IMO that thing crumbles.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:11 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
roastem00 wrote:
Okay I will say it... Al Horford at #16 LOL!!!! A 32 yr old vet that averaged less than 13 ppg last season and his impact is the only reason why he is ranked 16? I understand that stats lie, but if we brought on the 16th best player in the NBA on the Lakers is he going to impact our team that much???


He is actually criminally underrated. I think he's a top 20 player. Take him away from the Celts and IMO that thing crumbles.


He was definitely a huge contribution to the Celtics playoff run but Tatum, Rozier, and Brown should not be undervalued what they did to close out games. Underrated yes! Top 20 player? No... Look what he did on the Hawks when they had no talent. He is a coach's dream when surrounded by talent but that makes him a marquee player?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:16 am    Post subject:

roastem00 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
roastem00 wrote:
Okay I will say it... Al Horford at #16 LOL!!!! A 32 yr old vet that averaged less than 13 ppg last season and his impact is the only reason why he is ranked 16? I understand that stats lie, but if we brought on the 16th best player in the NBA on the Lakers is he going to impact our team that much???


He is actually criminally underrated. I think he's a top 20 player. Take him away from the Celts and IMO that thing crumbles.


He was definitely a huge contribution to the Celtics playoff run but Tatum, Rozier, and Brown should not be undervalued what they did to close out games. Underrated yes! Top 20 player? No... Look what he did on the Hawks when they had no talent. He is a coach's dream when surrounded by talent but that makes him a marquee player?


I won't say as far as he was punkin young Embiid but he was teaching young Embiid
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:22 am    Post subject:

roastem00 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
roastem00 wrote:
Okay I will say it... Al Horford at #16 LOL!!!! A 32 yr old vet that averaged less than 13 ppg last season and his impact is the only reason why he is ranked 16? I understand that stats lie, but if we brought on the 16th best player in the NBA on the Lakers is he going to impact our team that much???


He is actually criminally underrated. I think he's a top 20 player. Take him away from the Celts and IMO that thing crumbles.


He was definitely a huge contribution to the Celtics playoff run but Tatum, Rozier, and Brown should not be undervalued what they did to close out games. Underrated yes! Top 20 player? No... Look what he did on the Hawks when they had no talent. He is a coach's dream when surrounded by talent but that makes him a marquee player?


You're looking at him the wrong way. He's not a primary scorer but an elite role player. I have no problems with him being a top 20 player.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:38 am    Post subject:

roastem00 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
roastem00 wrote:
Okay I will say it... Al Horford at #16 LOL!!!! A 32 yr old vet that averaged less than 13 ppg last season and his impact is the only reason why he is ranked 16? I understand that stats lie, but if we brought on the 16th best player in the NBA on the Lakers is he going to impact our team that much???


He is actually criminally underrated. I think he's a top 20 player. Take him away from the Celts and IMO that thing crumbles.


He was definitely a huge contribution to the Celtics playoff run but Tatum, Rozier, and Brown should not be undervalued what they did to close out games. Underrated yes! Top 20 player? No... Look what he did on the Hawks when they had no talent. He is a coach's dream when surrounded by talent but that makes him a marquee player?


He ranked 19th in RPM last year. Metrics are not conclusive, but the SI ranking is not out of line.
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