Botham Jean Shooting
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:01 pm    Post subject:

AH, not sure what you mean by mundane reasons. What is a "mundane reason" to shoot someone like that? Lover's quarrel? Argument that went overboard with her pulling out her service weapon and killing him?

Trying to understand what you mean.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:14 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
AH, not sure what you mean by mundane reasons. What is a "mundane reason" to shoot someone like that? Lover's quarrel? Argument that went overboard with her pulling out her service weapon and killing him?

Trying to understand what you mean.

Me too!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:33 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
AH, not sure what you mean by mundane reasons. What is a "mundane reason" to shoot someone like that? Lover's quarrel? Argument that went overboard with her pulling out her service weapon and killing him?

Trying to understand what you mean.


"Mundane" in the sense that stuff like this happens every day. In fact, somewhere in the country, it probably happens every hour. The exact motivation is known only to the people involved, and one of them is dead. Sex? Love? Jealousy? Rejection? Who knows?

The only reason why this story even registered in the public consciousness is that the woman was a cop, and she tossed out an unlikely story about going into the wrong apartment and thinking that the guy was an intruder. That doesn't make sense even if she is drunk or high (well, maybe LSD or mushrooms, but that's not likely). If you walk into an apartment, what's the first thing you do? You turn on the light. Are we supposed to believe that this guy was sitting in a dark room by himself? That he didn't have a light on, or the TV running, or something?

For that matter, when you go into someone else's home, it usually just doesn't smell right -- not in an unpleasant way, but other people's lives have a different odor, whether due to cooking or air freshener or furniture or whatever. I think everyone has had the experience of walking into someone's house or apartment and noticing, at least as a passing thought, that it smells different.

Even if she was drunk or high, there is no way that she thought she was in her own apartment. Occam's Razor cuts that story to pieces. The mundane story is a lot more likely.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject:

There is something seriously fishy about her story and it all relates to the fact that his apartment was on a DIFFERENT FLOOR and happened to be directly under hers.

Noise complaints. IMO here is what went down: Guy probably liked to listen to music, maybe at a louder volume. I used to live in apartments and I admit that it would drive me nuts listening to my neighbor's crappy music or TV. Thin walls or floors suck! So she gets home from a long shift and wants to relax after a stressful day. But there is noise coming from downstairs. She goes downstairs and looses it on this guy then concocts the wrong apartment story to cover it up.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:43 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
There is something seriously fishy about her story and it all relates to the fact that his apartment was on a DIFFERENT FLOOR and happened to be directly under hers.

Noise complaints. IMO here is what went down: Guy probably liked to listen to music, maybe at a louder volume. I used to live in apartments and I admit that it would drive me nuts listening to my neighbor's crappy music or TV. Thin walls or floors suck! So she gets home from a long shift and wants to relax after a stressful day. But there is noise coming from downstairs. She goes downstairs and looses it on this guy then concocts the wrong apartment story to cover it up.


AH-gotcha. Tying it with this, maybe it's as "mundane" as what DF is saying. Who knows. Still, incredibly tragic. But wasn't she wearing her uniform and killed him with her service gun? That aspect isn't mundane at all.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:49 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
There is something seriously fishy about her story and it all relates to the fact that his apartment was on a DIFFERENT FLOOR and happened to be directly under hers.

Noise complaints. IMO here is what went down: Guy probably liked to listen to music, maybe at a louder volume. I used to live in apartments and I admit that it would drive me nuts listening to my neighbor's crappy music or TV. Thin walls or floors suck! So she gets home from a long shift and wants to relax after a stressful day. But there is noise coming from downstairs. She goes downstairs and looses it on this guy then concocts the wrong apartment story to cover it up.


I had similar thoughts. Mine were, the guy lived above her. I used to live below a tenant that walked hard and practiced dancing. It drove me nuts. Maybe she didn't like the noise he made walking, moving things around etc. She went to discuss it the discussion went south.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:53 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
AH, not sure what you mean by mundane reasons. What is a "mundane reason" to shoot someone like that? Lover's quarrel? Argument that went overboard with her pulling out her service weapon and killing him?

Trying to understand what you mean.


"Mundane" in the sense that stuff like this happens every day. In fact, somewhere in the country, it probably happens every hour. The exact motivation is known only to the people involved, and one of them is dead. Sex? Love? Jealousy? Rejection? Who knows?

The only reason why this story even registered in the public consciousness is that the woman was a cop, and she tossed out an unlikely story about going into the wrong apartment and thinking that the guy was an intruder. That doesn't make sense even if she is drunk or high (well, maybe LSD or mushrooms, but that's not likely). If you walk into an apartment, what's the first thing you do? You turn on the light. Are we supposed to believe that this guy was sitting in a dark room by himself? That he didn't have a light on, or the TV running, or something?

For that matter, when you go into someone else's home, it usually just doesn't smell right -- not in an unpleasant way, but other people's lives have a different odor, whether due to cooking or air freshener or furniture or whatever. I think everyone has had the experience of walking into someone's house or apartment and noticing, at least as a passing thought, that it smells different.

Even if she was drunk or high, there is no way that she thought she was in her own apartment. Occam's Razor cuts that story to pieces. The mundane story is a lot more likely.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:01 pm    Post subject:

The problem for me is that she's so far floated two different stories. The first was that she was at the door and her key wouldn't work and he opened the door and BLAM! That apparently didn't sound like a good case of self defense, so her next story has her in the apartment and he's a shadowy figure and she gives him commands he ignores. Couple that with the neighbor's story and it sounds fishy.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:50 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
There is something seriously fishy about her story and it all relates to the fact that his apartment was on a DIFFERENT FLOOR and happened to be directly under hers.

Noise complaints. IMO here is what went down: Guy probably liked to listen to music, maybe at a louder volume. I used to live in apartments and I admit that it would drive me nuts listening to my neighbor's crappy music or TV. Thin walls or floors suck! So she gets home from a long shift and wants to relax after a stressful day. But there is noise coming from downstairs. She goes downstairs and looses it on this guy then concocts the wrong apartment story to cover it up.


AH-gotcha. Tying it with this, maybe it's as "mundane" as what DF is saying. Who knows. Still, incredibly tragic. But wasn't she wearing her uniform and killed him with her service gun? That aspect isn't mundane at all.


Not really. The not-mundane aspect is that it was a woman who was the cop with a service pistol. Some people may read the last sentence and think that I’m trying to be witty. I’m not.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:51 pm    Post subject:

She had 3 days to go over her story with her brothers in blue before she was arrested. That's why her story has changed multiple times. First it was that she worked at 12 hours shift. Now it's 15 hours. Btw, I work 12-15 hour shifts regularly and I've never walked into the wrong house or wrong apartment. 15 hours is not 30 hours, there's no reason she should've been that disoriented unless she was drunk or high.

She is definitely lying. I don't know what happened, but the stories coming out so far do not make any sense. Soon it will be that she "feared for her life". She should've been charged with 2nd degree murder at the minimum, not manslaughter. She is being protected by the police department.

Last thing, I saw a video online that shows how the doors in that apartment complex automatically slam shut, so there's no way the door could've been left ajar. The lies are starting to unravel.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:59 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
There is something seriously fishy about her story and it all relates to the fact that his apartment was on a DIFFERENT FLOOR and happened to be directly under hers.

Noise complaints. IMO here is what went down: Guy probably liked to listen to music, maybe at a louder volume. I used to live in apartments and I admit that it would drive me nuts listening to my neighbor's crappy music or TV. Thin walls or floors suck! So she gets home from a long shift and wants to relax after a stressful day. But there is noise coming from downstairs. She goes downstairs and looses it on this guy then concocts the wrong apartment story to cover it up.

In college, two times I took the wrong floor to my apartment/dorm room and ended up knocking on some random dorm instead of my own. I wasn't even drunk, just distracted (on my phone) and got off the elevator on someone else's exit instead of mine. Since the layouts are identical across floors, I ended up at the wrong door.

I don't think this part of the story (i.e. not including any other facts) is implausible. Based on this, I also think her first story that Omar posted ("she was at the door and her key wouldn't work and he opened the door and BLAM") is by far the most likely story.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:39 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
There is something seriously fishy about her story and it all relates to the fact that his apartment was on a DIFFERENT FLOOR and happened to be directly under hers.

Noise complaints. IMO here is what went down: Guy probably liked to listen to music, maybe at a louder volume. I used to live in apartments and I admit that it would drive me nuts listening to my neighbor's crappy music or TV. Thin walls or floors suck! So she gets home from a long shift and wants to relax after a stressful day. But there is noise coming from downstairs. She goes downstairs and looses it on this guy then concocts the wrong apartment story to cover it up.

In college, two times I took the wrong floor to my apartment/dorm room and ended up knocking on some random dorm instead of my own. I wasn't even drunk, just distracted (on my phone) and got off the elevator on someone else's exit instead of mine. Since the layouts are identical across floors, I ended up at the wrong door.

I don't think this part of the story (i.e. not including any other facts) is implausible. Based on this, I also think her first story that Omar posted ("she was at the door and her key wouldn't work and he opened the door and BLAM") is by far the most likely story.

There was a link that said the door was ajar.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:01 pm    Post subject:

Read someone explaining that in Texas she can get 2 years Probation for this under Manslaughter

She went in the home...

As AH pointed out.. How can you not know IMMEDIATELY you are not inside your own home..

and

^^wrong floor person.. There is a Big RED floor mat in front of the dead black mans door.. no others like it
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:13 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
In college, two times I took the wrong floor to my apartment/dorm room and ended up knocking on some random dorm instead of my own. I wasn't even drunk, just distracted (on my phone) and got off the elevator on someone else's exit instead of mine. Since the layouts are identical across floors, I ended up at the wrong door.

I don't think this part of the story (i.e. not including any other facts) is implausible. Based on this, I also think her first story that Omar posted ("she was at the door and her key wouldn't work and he opened the door and BLAM") is by far the most likely story.


Oh, it is plausible that she could have walked to the wrong door. The implausible part is that the door was conveniently ajar, that the occupant was sitting inside in the dark with no lights at all, that she did not flip on a light switch or something, but that she could see the guy well enough to shoot him.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:22 pm    Post subject:

ContagiousInspiration wrote:
Read someone explaining that in Texas she can get 2 years Probation for this under Manslaughter

She went in the home...

As AH pointed out.. How can you not know IMMEDIATELY you are not inside your own home..

and

^^wrong floor person.. There is a Big RED floor mat in front of the dead black mans door.. no others like it


LINK

Quote:
Some witnesses reported hearing yelling before shots were fired, which may have been those shouts from the officer. Several witnesses have questioned how Guyger didn’t notice the bright red door mat outside Jean’s apartment before she entered?

Photos of Jean’s doorway, turned memorial clearly shows the distinctive door mat. LINK Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:47 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
governator wrote:
So an off duty cop is 'regular' citizen right? That's what I'm confused about, cause reports that she was 'giving verbal commands' as a cop


No, you're a cop 24 hours a day. This doesn't mean that everything you do is official police business. It means that you have duties and responsibilities even if you are off duty.


This is always interesting to me. So can cops get hammered at night yet still be called upon to police when the time is necessary?

The civil suit should be interesting as the PD will assuredly be sued as well as the shooter in both capacities.


Locally not just law enforcement but all County workers. My wife is a fiscal technician for the County IT department and had to swear to assist during any incident when asked 24 hours a day.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:13 am    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
There is something seriously fishy about her story and it all relates to the fact that his apartment was on a DIFFERENT FLOOR and happened to be directly under hers.

Noise complaints. IMO here is what went down: Guy probably liked to listen to music, maybe at a louder volume. I used to live in apartments and I admit that it would drive me nuts listening to my neighbor's crappy music or TV. Thin walls or floors suck! So she gets home from a long shift and wants to relax after a stressful day. But there is noise coming from downstairs. She goes downstairs and looses it on this guy then concocts the wrong apartment story to cover it up.
This is what i think really happened. The guy was young. Lets all be honest when we were young we would blast our music and I dont care who you are, most people dont want to hear YOUR music in THEIR rooms. lol. And most neighbors will complain. And some will actually confront you about it. Especially when that neighbor is a cop(i got a badge and a gun...I aint scared.)

She confronts him maybe for the 5th time about it. He acts as if he doesnt care or gets mad back at her calling her names or just being plain nonchalant about it. That ticks her off. and we get what we got. Now here's where the race kicks in. If the guy was a young white guy, would she have been so quick to shoot the guy? probably not. she still would've ran up to his place to yell about his music because she's that kind of neighbor that isnt afraid to confront or she isnt afraid because she has that gun and badge. but the part about shooting the guy most likely only happened because the guy was not white. you see the white guy and she sees her idiot brother playing loud music she doesnt think about shooting him. and if thats how it went down thats the hidden cism inside a lot of people that dont want to admit it. This goes right along with the BLM phrase meaning My life matters TOO. It's a reminder for those that dont think about it in that manner. "dont forget.. my life matters too."

Who knows it could've been a trayvon like scenario where she went up there to confront him. he opens the door. she's talking crazy. he tries to close the door on her. and she isnt finished talking. she keeps her body and foot in the door. he keeps trying to close it like GET OUT. she's a cop, she doesnt take well to regular citizens giving her orders even in their own homes. So the back and forth continues until she decides to pull the gun out and shoot.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:15 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
governator wrote:
So an off duty cop is 'regular' citizen right? That's what I'm confused about, cause reports that she was 'giving verbal commands' as a cop


No, you're a cop 24 hours a day. This doesn't mean that everything you do is official police business. It means that you have duties and responsibilities even if you are off duty.


This is always interesting to me. So can cops get hammered at night yet still be called upon to police when the time is necessary?

The civil suit should be interesting as the PD will assuredly be sued as well as the shooter in both capacities.


Locally not just law enforcement but all County workers. My wife is a fiscal technician for the County IT department and had to swear to assist during any incident when asked 24 hours a day.
same for many public workers. if something occurs where they need their help. they are the next line of defense. officers/first responders, etc can actually ask the public workers to assist them if they need their assistance. and technically they have to help.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:22 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
Read someone explaining that in Texas she can get 2 years Probation for this under Manslaughter

She went in the home...

As AH pointed out.. How can you not know IMMEDIATELY you are not inside your own home..

and

^^wrong floor person.. There is a Big RED floor mat in front of the dead black mans door.. no others like it


LINK

Quote:
Some witnesses reported hearing yelling before shots were fired, which may have been those shouts from the officer. Several witnesses have questioned how Guyger didn’t notice the bright red door mat outside Jean’s apartment before she entered?

Photos of Jean’s doorway, turned memorial clearly shows the distinctive door mat. LINK Something is rotten in the state of Denmark


Perhaps. I had a person mistakenly enter my apartment once and I also had a distinctive doormat at the time. I don't know if the person was also a resident but he obviously felt comfortable enough to just walk in without knocking.

Fortunately, this happened during broad daylight on a weekend and the guy knew immediately he was in the wrong apartment when he saw me, apologized and quickly exited. However, I was so stunned to see this person walking in my front door I didn't say anything. I don't know what would have happened if I was armed at the time but I'm certain I would have pointed my gun at him just on instinct.

As far as Jean's family's assertion that he would never leave his door unlocked or walk around in the dark who hasn't done those things in their own home? This was around 10pm at night on a Thursday so he may have been asleep or preparing for it when he heard the sound of someone messing with his lock and got up to investigate.

It was also reported by the Dallas Mayor that she also parked on the wrong floor.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:25 am    Post subject:

Quote:
It was also reported by the Dallas Mayor that she also parked on the wrong floor.


Will be very interested to see the toxicology report (assuming they didn't let her "sleep it off for 2 days" b/c she's a fellow cop).
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:32 am    Post subject:

numero-ocho wrote:
jodeke wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
Read someone explaining that in Texas she can get 2 years Probation for this under Manslaughter

She went in the home...

As AH pointed out.. How can you not know IMMEDIATELY you are not inside your own home..

and

^^wrong floor person.. There is a Big RED floor mat in front of the dead black mans door.. no others like it


LINK

Quote:
Some witnesses reported hearing yelling before shots were fired, which may have been those shouts from the officer. Several witnesses have questioned how Guyger didn’t notice the bright red door mat outside Jean’s apartment before she entered?

Photos of Jean’s doorway, turned memorial clearly shows the distinctive door mat. LINK Something is rotten in the state of Denmark


Perhaps. I had a person mistakenly enter my apartment once and I also had a distinctive doormat at the time. I don't know if the person was also a resident but he obviously felt comfortable enough to just walk in without knocking.

Fortunately, this happened during broad daylight on a weekend and the guy knew immediately he was in the wrong apartment when he saw me, apologized and quickly exited. However, I was so stunned to see this person walking in my front door I didn't say anything. I don't know what would have happened if I was armed at the time but I'm certain I would have pointed my gun at him just on instinct.

As far as Jean's family's assertion that he would never leave his door unlocked or walk around in the dark who hasn't done those things in their own home? This was around 10pm at night on a Thursday so he may have been asleep or preparing for it when he heard the sound of someone messing with his lock and got up to investigate.

It was also reported by the Dallas Mayor that she also parked on the wrong floor.
Think maybe the person might have been a burglar and was surprised to see you? Do you normally leave your outer door unlocked?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:46 am    Post subject:

Murder charge, not manslaughter, best fits Botham Jean case because Dallas officer intended to shoot, experts say

LINK

I think murder would be harder to prove. It wouldn't surprise me if no charges are filed. If I have it right that's up to the Grand Jury.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:48 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Think maybe the person might have been a burglar and was surprised to see you?


I'll never know thankfully. I do know he never came back.

I also find it curious that if Jean didn't know this person and was the cautious person his family claimed, then why would he allow this stranger in his apartment late at night, especially if her reason for being there was confrontational.

Witnesses reportedly heard someone knocking on a door and woman's voice saying, "Let me in!" but I would think if a confrontation escalates to where a gun his drawn it would be a lot noisier.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:33 am    Post subject:

I wonder if he opened the door for her. If so, that was his fatal mistake.
If she broke in and the cops are covering it up. Than there was nothing Botham could've done. He was screwed from the jump.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:35 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
I wonder if he opened the door for her. If so, that was his fatal mistake.
If she broke in and the cops are covering it up. Than there was nothing Botham could've done. He was screwed from the jump.


Isn't that crazy. Opening the door to your own abode and being gunned down by a police officer.
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