Would you rather have Butler + Leonard or just Lebron?
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Would you rather have Butler + Leonard or just Lebron?
LeBron
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 82%  [ 24 ]
Butler and Leonard
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 17%  [ 5 ]
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:39 am    Post subject:

If Kawhi of new is equal to Kawhi of old, I'd take him alone over LeBron, so I guess I'd take the two as well.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:48 am    Post subject:

Lebron. I still want to see how Kwahi perform outside of Pop system. I like Butler but he ain’t a franchise changer kind of player.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:54 am    Post subject:

matrixskillz wrote:
Butler was never a good fit. He can't shoot 3s and is no better than Josh Hart will be in a couple years.

Your post got me thinking so I looked it up and compared their rookie per-36 minute stats, both at age 22.

Butler: 10.9 pts, 5.6 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 1.1 steals, 0.5 blocks, 1.4 turnovers
Hart: 12.2 pts, 6.5 rebounds, 2.0 assists, 1.2 steals, 0.4 blocks, 1.2 turnovers

Butler: 40.5 fg%, 18.2 3pt%, 76.8 ft%, 52.6 ts%
Hart: 46.9 fg%, 39.6 3pt%, 70.2 ft%, 59.6 ts%

In fact, even if you compare Butler's second season (age 23) to Hart's first season, Hart is still better in points per 36, rebounds per 36, assists per 36, fg%, 3pt%, and ts%.

Yes, it does seem entirely possible that Hart will match or pass Butler in the next few years.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:58 am    Post subject:

In a vacuum, assuming none of the max guys come next year, someone like Middleton may be the type of personality/fit that works, though he would be an overpay (max or near max b/c of massive cap space that teams will have).

I don't think Middleton fancies himself a star like Butler/KL, and fits role-wise. I think he's clearly below the pecking order of KD/KL/Klay/Butler, but in theory, would be the kind of 3/D guy that would fit.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:05 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Killakobe81 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I think we need to be honest here.

1. if Butler joined us as a FA in 2019, I'd say most of us would be very pleased. He's an all-NBA player who is very good.

2. however, as would be the case even if we got him, a few things have clearly emerged: 1) he wants to be the unquestioned #1 alpha on the team. Things got dicey with KAT (and Wiggins) b/c they are trying to be the leads of the team. 2) injury concerns. He misses a decent amount of games and seems to have lots of nagging injuries. Plus he has Thibs mileage and will be 30-34 on his next deal.

3. we can't realistcally trade for him without inlcuding both BI/Lonzo, which we won't and shouldn't do.

So it's a bit disingenous to slander Butler all of a sudden b/c he wants out and didn't pick us. But it's also good to know these things about him (alpha lead guy, haven't got along with teammates recently).


Disagree.
1. I did not want PG at max so why would I want one that may be tougher but is a worse shooter and missed more games?
2. He has a lot of miles on that ODO. Just look at Deng and look how quickly those heavy mins caught up to him.
3. I hope he goes to Clips or knicks and leaves a big $30 million salary cap spot on one of our "rivals" for FA's while he misses 12-15 games and is limited due to injury (not wishing injury just rather he collects those checks while he is injured elsewhere)

He is a top 15-20 player just like PG and arguably at least top 10 if you talking as a two-way player ... I conceded that. but he is overrated and will soon be overpaid. Pass, even if in FA if he is asking for $30 million. At $20 we can talk. Otherwise enjoy playing for the "B" team in L.A.


What are you disagreeing with? It's just #1, and you admit he's still a top 15 player (by virtue of an all NBA slot he should be a top 15 player).

If it's no max FA or Butler (assuming everyone passes), you would be ok with passing on him?


At $30 million I would prefer none versus overpaying for Butler. I get Lebron has accelerated everyone in to "win now" mode while Lebron is great but I would still rather our FO stay the course and save our max salary cap spot for a player truly deserving of the max. We could sign two really good players to one year deals and punt the space if no one comes.

Signing Butler because you are afraid of being left out in FA is like, marrying the ex that cheated on you because you are afraid of being alone ...

We will be fine even if KL, Butler and Klay dont come ...
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:07 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Signing Butler because you are afraid of being left out in FA is like, marrying the ex that cheated on you because you are afraid of being alone ...

We will be fine even if KL, Butler and Klay dont come ...


Not really. Then you'll have LBJ in his final good years, youngsters developing. What does that yield? Why even get LBJ in the first place?

The reality will be the team will likely have to spend it on other non-stars, or try to trade for a player.

Butler is my 3rd/4th choice, but I find it humorous (maybe you weren't in this camp) that folks are now dumping on him b/c he didn't include the Lakers on his list (when we all know from a cap standpoint why we can't even trade for him now).
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:17 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
In a vacuum, assuming none of the max guys come next year, someone like Middleton may be the type of personality/fit that works, though he would be an overpay (max or near max b/c of massive cap space that teams will have).

I don't think Middleton fancies himself a star like Butler/KL, and fits role-wise. I think he's clearly below the pecking order of KD/KL/Klay/Butler, but in theory, would be the kind of 3/D guy that would fit.


I actually like him but wouldn't overpay for him either.
Yinoma not picking a fight, just a bit picky about spending max dollars.
I get we only have nabbed one huge FA (Bron) in the past 20 years or so but let's not panic like we don't have options.

to keep the analogy going ... we are still the "hot guy" with good credit, a great job, and a beach-house. Sure we have demanding parents (Magic/Lebron/fans) and some precocious kids. But Lakers are still a "catch".

Lets not act like a 40 year old virgin.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:22 am    Post subject:

Killakobe81 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
In a vacuum, assuming none of the max guys come next year, someone like Middleton may be the type of personality/fit that works, though he would be an overpay (max or near max b/c of massive cap space that teams will have).

I don't think Middleton fancies himself a star like Butler/KL, and fits role-wise. I think he's clearly below the pecking order of KD/KL/Klay/Butler, but in theory, would be the kind of 3/D guy that would fit.


I actually like him but wouldn't overpay for him either.
Yinoma not picking a fight, just a bit picky about spending max dollars.
I get we only have nabbed one huge FA (Bron) in the past 20 years or so but let's not panic like we don't have options.

to keep the analogy going ... we are still the "hot guy" with good credit, a great job, and a beach-house. Sure we have demanding parents (Magic/Lebron/fans) and some precocious kids. But Lakers are still a "catch".

Lets not act like a 40 year old virgin.


Again, what's the point of getting LBJ then? Just let him take us to the playoffs, maybe at one point reach the WCF? I highly doubt that is what Magic/Rob want.

I would somewhat agree with you if we didn't get LBJ (though I have no doubts we would have taken PG13/Butler, etc. on a max deal if they wanted to come).

The options are getting smaller if Butler doesn't want to come here. That's my point. Don't want to spend MORE money on a non-max level player just b/c we lost out on true max FAs.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:27 am    Post subject:

Butler is an annoying, two faced idiot. Drama queen clown.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:27 am    Post subject: Re: Would you rather have Butler + Leonard or just Lebron?

BigBallerBrand wrote:
Sounds like bc we got lebron, we might not get Butler or Leonard. Clippers might actually be better than us next year. Which player(s) would you rather have?




Clippers are done they will never be better then the Lakers. LeBron is better then their whole damn team with butler and kl
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:28 am    Post subject:

Remember, this is the last season we will likely have a max slot. Ingram's cap hold would be huge in 2020 gobbling up most of the cap space. It's pretty hard to just "punt" to 2020 unless BI is no longer in our long term picture.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:30 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Killakobe81 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
In a vacuum, assuming none of the max guys come next year, someone like Middleton may be the type of personality/fit that works, though he would be an overpay (max or near max b/c of massive cap space that teams will have).

I don't think Middleton fancies himself a star like Butler/KL, and fits role-wise. I think he's clearly below the pecking order of KD/KL/Klay/Butler, but in theory, would be the kind of 3/D guy that would fit.


I actually like him but wouldn't overpay for him either.
Yinoma not picking a fight, just a bit picky about spending max dollars.
I get we only have nabbed one huge FA (Bron) in the past 20 years or so but let's not panic like we don't have options.

to keep the analogy going ... we are still the "hot guy" with good credit, a great job, and a beach-house. Sure we have demanding parents (Magic/Lebron/fans) and some precocious kids. But Lakers are still a "catch".

Lets not act like a 40 year old virgin.


Again, what's the point of getting LBJ then? Just let him take us to the playoffs, maybe at one point reach the WCF? I highly doubt that is what Magic/Rob want.

I would somewhat agree with you if we didn't get LBJ (though I have no doubts we would have taken PG13/Butler, etc. on a max deal if they wanted to come).

The options are getting smaller if Butler doesn't want to come here. That's my point. Don't want to spend MORE money on a non-max level player just b/c we lost out on true max FAs.


The idea is one of our 4 studs will become a Star.

Add klay or KL and you are set. We need to build like GS not like the heat did.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:33 am    Post subject:

noahp45 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Killakobe81 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
In a vacuum, assuming none of the max guys come next year, someone like Middleton may be the type of personality/fit that works, though he would be an overpay (max or near max b/c of massive cap space that teams will have).

I don't think Middleton fancies himself a star like Butler/KL, and fits role-wise. I think he's clearly below the pecking order of KD/KL/Klay/Butler, but in theory, would be the kind of 3/D guy that would fit.


I actually like him but wouldn't overpay for him either.
Yinoma not picking a fight, just a bit picky about spending max dollars.
I get we only have nabbed one huge FA (Bron) in the past 20 years or so but let's not panic like we don't have options.

to keep the analogy going ... we are still the "hot guy" with good credit, a great job, and a beach-house. Sure we have demanding parents (Magic/Lebron/fans) and some precocious kids. But Lakers are still a "catch".

Lets not act like a 40 year old virgin.


Again, what's the point of getting LBJ then? Just let him take us to the playoffs, maybe at one point reach the WCF? I highly doubt that is what Magic/Rob want.

I would somewhat agree with you if we didn't get LBJ (though I have no doubts we would have taken PG13/Butler, etc. on a max deal if they wanted to come).

The options are getting smaller if Butler doesn't want to come here. That's my point. Don't want to spend MORE money on a non-max level player just b/c we lost out on true max FAs.


The idea is one of our 4 studs will become a Star.

Add klay or KL and you are set. We need to build like GS not like the heat did.


Yes. Just add KL or Klay. That's the whole point. We need top end talent which IMO is in tiers, KD/KL, then Klay/Butler. To say we would reject Jimmy if he wanted to join in 2019 (assuming others don't) is unlikely.

It's just interesting seeing so many people suddenly bash Butler after his trade destinations didn't include the Lakers.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:35 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
noahp45 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Killakobe81 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
In a vacuum, assuming none of the max guys come next year, someone like Middleton may be the type of personality/fit that works, though he would be an overpay (max or near max b/c of massive cap space that teams will have).

I don't think Middleton fancies himself a star like Butler/KL, and fits role-wise. I think he's clearly below the pecking order of KD/KL/Klay/Butler, but in theory, would be the kind of 3/D guy that would fit.


I actually like him but wouldn't overpay for him either.
Yinoma not picking a fight, just a bit picky about spending max dollars.
I get we only have nabbed one huge FA (Bron) in the past 20 years or so but let's not panic like we don't have options.

to keep the analogy going ... we are still the "hot guy" with good credit, a great job, and a beach-house. Sure we have demanding parents (Magic/Lebron/fans) and some precocious kids. But Lakers are still a "catch".

Lets not act like a 40 year old virgin.


Again, what's the point of getting LBJ then? Just let him take us to the playoffs, maybe at one point reach the WCF? I highly doubt that is what Magic/Rob want.

I would somewhat agree with you if we didn't get LBJ (though I have no doubts we would have taken PG13/Butler, etc. on a max deal if they wanted to come).

The options are getting smaller if Butler doesn't want to come here. That's my point. Don't want to spend MORE money on a non-max level player just b/c we lost out on true max FAs.


The idea is one of our 4 studs will become a Star.

Add klay or KL and you are set. We need to build like GS not like the heat did.


Yes. Just add KL or Klay. That's the whole point. We need top end talent which IMO is in tiers, KD/KL, then Klay/Butler. To say we would reject Jimmy if he wanted to join in 2019 (assuming others don't) is unlikely.

It's just interesting seeing so many people suddenly bash Butler after his trade destinations didn't include the Lakers.


The dude Has issue's!

He also didn't put Boston on his list. Which is crazy since they are in the east and they have a great squad.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:39 am    Post subject:

Quote:
The dude Has issue's!


Sure, as noted in my original post, he seems to want to be the Man, and it's also rumored he messed around with KAT's GF.

Regardless, there are issues surrounding KL (health and his strange behavior with the team).

Then you're asking KD or Klay to leave a possible 3 peat team.

It's not as easy as some make it out to be.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:39 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
noahp45 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Killakobe81 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
In a vacuum, assuming none of the max guys come next year, someone like Middleton may be the type of personality/fit that works, though he would be an overpay (max or near max b/c of massive cap space that teams will have).

I don't think Middleton fancies himself a star like Butler/KL, and fits role-wise. I think he's clearly below the pecking order of KD/KL/Klay/Butler, but in theory, would be the kind of 3/D guy that would fit.


I actually like him but wouldn't overpay for him either.
Yinoma not picking a fight, just a bit picky about spending max dollars.
I get we only have nabbed one huge FA (Bron) in the past 20 years or so but let's not panic like we don't have options.

to keep the analogy going ... we are still the "hot guy" with good credit, a great job, and a beach-house. Sure we have demanding parents (Magic/Lebron/fans) and some precocious kids. But Lakers are still a "catch".

Lets not act like a 40 year old virgin.


Again, what's the point of getting LBJ then? Just let him take us to the playoffs, maybe at one point reach the WCF? I highly doubt that is what Magic/Rob want.

I would somewhat agree with you if we didn't get LBJ (though I have no doubts we would have taken PG13/Butler, etc. on a max deal if they wanted to come).

The options are getting smaller if Butler doesn't want to come here. That's my point. Don't want to spend MORE money on a non-max level player just b/c we lost out on true max FAs.


The idea is one of our 4 studs will become a Star.

Add klay or KL and you are set. We need to build like GS not like the heat did.


Yes. Just add KL or Klay. That's the whole point. We need top end talent which IMO is in tiers, KD/KL, then Klay/Butler. To say we would reject Jimmy if he wanted to join in 2019 (assuming others don't) is unlikely.

It's just interesting seeing so many people suddenly bash Butler after his trade destinations didn't include the Lakers.


I think some of it is salt that we are seeing Clippers in the limelight. We don't want to get good again especially if it directly affects our success. Call it big brother syndrome or whatever.

Also the sports media is taking jabs at us every time even though they don't understand that our salary situation is currently not favorable for trading for a star. I havn't heard one fox or espn broadcast on this topic without a jab against us. "Butler would rather play with the Clippers than the Lakers, Wuuuuuuut"



For all we know Butler just listed teams that could easily trade for him and extend him. According to Shams, the list could increase to 5 to 6.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:42 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
The dude Has issue's!


Sure, as noted in my original post, he seems to want to be the Man, and it's also rumored he messed around with KAT's GF.

Regardless, there are issues surrounding KL (health and his strange behavior with the team).

Then you're asking KD or Klay to leave a possible 3 peat team.

It's not as easy as some make it out to be.


I don't think people understand how much money it will cost to pay all 4 to stay together. One is leaving for sure
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:45 am    Post subject:

noahp45 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
The dude Has issue's!


Sure, as noted in my original post, he seems to want to be the Man, and it's also rumored he messed around with KAT's GF.

Regardless, there are issues surrounding KL (health and his strange behavior with the team).

Then you're asking KD or Klay to leave a possible 3 peat team.

It's not as easy as some make it out to be.


I don't think people understand how much money it will cost to pay all 4 to stay together. One is leaving for sure


I saw something last year that Warriors would have to pay around 500 mill in 2020 or 2021 to keep their team around. Maybe they can shed Iggy and Livingston's contract to save some money. Or maybe they just have infinite money. Darn you Silicon Valley
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:45 am    Post subject:

noahp45 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
The dude Has issue's!


Sure, as noted in my original post, he seems to want to be the Man, and it's also rumored he messed around with KAT's GF.

Regardless, there are issues surrounding KL (health and his strange behavior with the team).

Then you're asking KD or Klay to leave a possible 3 peat team.

It's not as easy as some make it out to be.


I don't think people understand how much money it will cost to pay all 4 to stay together. One is leaving for sure


Maybe. Or maybe not. That is why the Lakers wouldn't foreclose on Butler being a possible FA (and nothing precludes him from hitting FA in 2019 since an extension now would mean he loses out on $).

But folks are treating this as if it's 2016, 2017, or 2018 summer, and that we can just "punt" a max in perpetuity while LBJ's biological championship clock dwindles down. This is effectively the last summer we will have a max slot and they're going to spend it. Would you rather spend 32m on Butler or Kemba/Boogie?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:46 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Killakobe81 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
In a vacuum, assuming none of the max guys come next year, someone like Middleton may be the type of personality/fit that works, though he would be an overpay (max or near max b/c of massive cap space that teams will have).

I don't think Middleton fancies himself a star like Butler/KL, and fits role-wise. I think he's clearly below the pecking order of KD/KL/Klay/Butler, but in theory, would be the kind of 3/D guy that would fit.


I actually like him but wouldn't overpay for him either.
Yinoma not picking a fight, just a bit picky about spending max dollars.
I get we only have nabbed one huge FA (Bron) in the past 20 years or so but let's not panic like we don't have options.

to keep the analogy going ... we are still the "hot guy" with good credit, a great job, and a beach-house. Sure we have demanding parents (Magic/Lebron/fans) and some precocious kids. But Lakers are still a "catch".

Lets not act like a 40 year old virgin.


Again, what's the point of getting LBJ then? Just let him take us to the playoffs, maybe at one point reach the WCF? I highly doubt that is what Magic/Rob want.

I would somewhat agree with you if we didn't get LBJ (though I have no doubts we would have taken PG13/Butler, etc. on a max deal if they wanted to come).

The options are getting smaller if Butler doesn't want to come here. That's my point. Don't want to spend MORE money on a non-max level player just b/c we lost out on true max FAs.


I would table this speculation until after the season. The likelihood of Kuz or BI presenting themselves as a max player is certainly not out of the question.

While my 1st choice would be to max KD or Klay to weaken the champs...I am very curious to see how we stack up in the RS...and in the playoffs.

And truth be told I'd rather that max slot go to AD before it goes to anyone not named Durant or Klay...so it's not absurd to hold on to it and let other teams pay 2nd tier stars max money going into their 30s.

I personally wouldn't want 2 guys over 30 on max deals...
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:56 am    Post subject:

I think AD will be moved b/f he hits FA, and likely re-sign on the team he is traded to (i.e. Boston).
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:57 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Remember, this is the last season we will likely have a max slot. Ingram's cap hold would be huge in 2020 gobbling up most of the cap space. It's pretty hard to just "punt" to 2020 unless BI is no longer in our long term picture.


Not a capologist, but won't Ingram's cap-hold be less than what we are paying Rondo/KCP/Beasley who are all on one-year deals?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:02 pm    Post subject:

I suppose this could be posted in any number of other threads, and if so, shame on me for missing it, but . . .

Free agency rumors: Clippers emeging as frontrunner for Kawhi
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:03 pm    Post subject:

LeBron, it's a nice feeling knowing you'll have the best player on the floor day in, day out.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:03 pm    Post subject:

LeBron, it's a nice feeling knowing you'll have the best player on the floor day in, day out.
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