A DNA test said a man was 4% black. Now he wants to qualify as a minority business owner.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:16 am    Post subject: A DNA test said a man was 4% black. Now he wants to qualify as a minority business owner.

As a biracial minority, I’ve long not been a fan of programs based on race. Here’s a great example of why:

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The legal battle got its start in 2013. With the test results in hand, Taylor applied to get his insurance agency certified as a minority-owned business by Washington state’s Office of Minority and Women’s Business Enterprises. As the Seattle Times first reported, he was initially rejected on the grounds that he wasn’t visibly identifiable as a minority.

...

Federal law defines black Americans as “persons having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.” Taylor’s lawsuit notes that the statute doesn’t set a minimum percentage of African DNA that an individual needs to be considered black.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/09/25/a-dna-test-said-he-was-4-black-now-he-wants-to-qualify-as-a-minority-business-owner/?noredirect=on
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:36 am    Post subject:

no idea how it works out legally....but my opinion is 100% No!. I would guess we are all some form of human mutt (mixed race/ethnicity) at this point in human history. I assume he appears Caucasian? The intent of those laws, whether you support them or not, are not to assist individuals because of their internal genetic makeup, but to overcome an expected or perceived discrimination based on their external appearance. I do not know what the % should be to normally result in a non-Caucasian external appearance....but would assume 20-25% minimum?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:39 am    Post subject:

Oh, I agree. Back in the early ‘90s, we structured a law firm so that my partner had 51%. This let her get government work because we were an MWOLF (minority or woman owned law firm). We weren’t truly abusing the system, because she did all of the government work. There were other firms that abused the hell out of it.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:47 am    Post subject:

Washington State again? This sure sounds familiar.

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Taylor acknowledges that he looks white. But despite being “visually Caucasian,” as he puts it, he considers himself to be multiracial.

“I’m a certified black man,” he told The Post. “I’m certified black in all 50 states. But the federal government doesn’t recognize me.”

Taylor said that he was a member of the NAACP, subscribed to Ebony magazine and was interested in black social issues.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:53 am    Post subject:

numero-ocho wrote:
Washington State again? This sure sounds familiar.

Quote:
Taylor acknowledges that he looks white. But despite being “visually Caucasian,” as he puts it, he considers himself to be multiracial.

“I’m a certified black man,” he told The Post. “I’m certified black in all 50 states. But the federal government doesn’t recognize me.”

Taylor said that he was a member of the NAACP, subscribed to Ebony magazine and was interested in black social issues.


certified black man? Is that the certification Russell Wilson was trying to obtain a few years ago?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:55 am    Post subject:

numero-ocho wrote:
Washington State again? This sure sounds familiar.

Quote:
Taylor acknowledges that he looks white. But despite being “visually Caucasian,” as he puts it, he considers himself to be multiracial.

“I’m a certified black man,” he told The Post. “I’m certified black in all 50 states. But the federal government doesn’t recognize me.”

Taylor said that he was a member of the NAACP, subscribed to Ebony magazine and was interested in black social issues.



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PIC LINK for above quote


You know he will label you racists if you start any trouble with him
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:58 am    Post subject:

^^^I take everything back....I can definitely see it now.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:35 am    Post subject:

For years he identified as white. Now he’s using a DNA test to claim minority status for his business

LINK

One-drop rule

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Last edited by jodeke on Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:01 pm    Post subject:

Sure, why not?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:45 pm    Post subject:

Odds are that most of us are black or Mongolian or both. Genghis Kahn is related to 10.percent of the population.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:16 pm    Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:
Odds are that most of us are black or Mongolian or both. Genghis Kahn is related to 10.percent of the population.


LINK 😈
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:03 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
For years he identified as white. Now he’s using a DNA test to claim minority status for his business

LINK

One-drop rule

LINK


Yeah but maybe that’s because he never took the DNA test prior to all that.

This is the problem with giving benefits to people based on how they look so now you have to say that to be black means you have to look a certain way and if you do not look that way you are not black.

So should it be based on genetics or looks?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:22 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
jodeke wrote:
For years he identified as white. Now he’s using a DNA test to claim minority status for his business

LINK

One-drop rule

LINK


Quote:
Yeah but maybe that’s because he never took the DNA test prior to all that.

Yeah maybe it wasn't beneficial to be Black prior to that. Don't know when he opened his business. Could be of late.

Quote:
This is the problem with giving benefits to people based on how they look so now you have to say that to be black means you have to look a certain way and if you do not look that way you are not black.

This melting pot called the human race is such a hodgepodge that looks can be deceiving.

Quote:
So should it be based on genetics or looks?

Genetics. But as I said if you use the one drop rule where do you draw the genetic line?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:49 pm    Post subject:

The Disadvantaged Business Enterprise program allows an applicant to submit a narrative which details the nature of their claim to be a member of a disadvantaged group. By my reckoning, this should be the only standard which should be used regardless of ones ethnicity. Anyone who applies should have to state the nature of how they've been disadvantaged and have a decision regarding acceptance into the program based on a determination of said disadvantage.

Sean Patrick McGuire, an 11th generation impoverished inbred redneck from from Pascagoula Mississippi, who was abandoned in the forest as a child and raised by feral pigs would more qualify as disadvantaged than say - Shareef O'Neal - Shaqs son.

Imo, ones actual disadvantage should be more of a factor than race or heritage.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:07 pm    Post subject:

^^^^ Didn't he apply through Office of Minority and Women’s Business Enterprises in DC? Isn't that different from DBE?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:46 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
^^^^ Didn't he apply through Office of Minority and Women’s Business Enterprises in DC? Isn't that different from DBE?


He applied 1st with Washington state’s Office of Minority and Women’s Business Enterprises, and they initially denied his application, but then reversed their decision after he appealed and claimed the guidelines were too vague. Then he later applied through the same agency for the U.S. Department of Transportation’s Disadvantaged Business Enterprise program, which is the Federal Program which approves parties for qualification to participate in lucrative government Set Asides.

So the Washington State Agency approved his application, but the Feds turned down his request. If you can prove via narrative, then the Feds will make exceptions to non historically deprived minorities to participate as minority owned business, but you have to first lay out just how you've been disadvantaged. I helped a Tunisian businessman achieve this status,even though the US government historically hasn't classified Arabs as a defined Disadvantaged class. His narrative was aided by his being in an industry where there's been abundant open discrimination since 9-11.

In this guys case, it's not at all surprising that he was accepted to the State Agency as that's an easier hurdle to jump. The defacto stance of the Feds,on the other hand, is to deny pretty much all non standard applications and place a barrier in front of those who are outside of historically disadvantaged classes.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:02 pm    Post subject:

He should ask the good Senator Warren to intercede on his behalf.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:03 pm    Post subject:

He should. The system is there to be taken advantage of
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:04 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
jodeke wrote:
For years he identified as white. Now he’s using a DNA test to claim minority status for his business

LINK

One-drop rule

LINK


Quote:
Yeah but maybe that’s because he never took the DNA test prior to all that.

Yeah maybe it wasn't beneficial to be Black prior to that. Don't know when he opened his business. Could be of late.

Quote:
This is the problem with giving benefits to people based on how they look so now you have to say that to be black means you have to look a certain way and if you do not look that way you are not black.

This melting pot called the human race is such a hodgepodge that looks can be deceiving.

Quote:
So should it be based on genetics or looks?

Genetics. But as I said if you use the one drop rule where do you draw the genetic line?


Well, this is why I have always had issues with group identity based benefit programs like this. And perhaps, in part, my position is the result of being a person who is biracial. (well, I haven't taken a DNA test yet, maybe I am tri- or quad-racial, haha). Because I never seem to fully "fit in" with one group or the other.

I agree with AussieSuede -- programs should be designed to help the disadvantaged, not people with a particular hue of skin color because then you end up denying people if their hue isn't light or dark enough.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:01 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
jodeke wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
jodeke wrote:
For years he identified as white. Now he’s using a DNA test to claim minority status for his business

LINK

One-drop rule

LINK


Quote:
Yeah but maybe that’s because he never took the DNA test prior to all that.

Yeah maybe it wasn't beneficial to be Black prior to that. Don't know when he opened his business. Could be of late.

Quote:
This is the problem with giving benefits to people based on how they look so now you have to say that to be black means you have to look a certain way and if you do not look that way you are not black.

This melting pot called the human race is such a hodgepodge that looks can be deceiving.

Quote:
So should it be based on genetics or looks?

Genetics. But as I said if you use the one drop rule where do you draw the genetic line?


Quote:
Well, this is why I have always had issues with group identity based benefit programs like this. And perhaps, in part, my position is the result of being a person who is biracial. (well, I haven't taken a DNA test yet, maybe I am tri- or quad-racial, haha). Because I never seem to fully "fit in" with one group or the other.

Programs like this were started to help those who were being overlooked because of their ethnicity. If you take the test and find one drop of Black blood will that change your perspective of who you are. I hope not.
Quote:
I agree with AussieSuede -- programs should be designed to help the disadvantaged, not people with a particular hue of skin color because then you end up denying people if their hue isn't light or dark enough.

There are programs in place designed to help those of who you speak. I think you may be overlooking them.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:06 am    Post subject:

I will take this opportunity to make another plug for this book.

https://www.peterfrankopan.com/the-silk-roads.html

It covers about four thousand years of history in about 400 pages (not counting the lengthy compendium of notes at the end). It retells the history of the world from a non-western perspective, centering on the trade routes from east to west. It shows that the rise of the west was more of an aberration than a matter of cultural destiny. Of relevance to the current discussion, it makes it pretty clear that racial purity is a myth unless you happen to be from one of the really isolated parts of the world. As a card carrying member of the Master Race, English Edition, I may very well have Vikings, Romans, and who knows what else in my family tree.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:51 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
For years he identified as white. Now he’s using a DNA test to claim minority status for his business

LINK

One-drop rule

LINK


Came here to post this. According to the "one-drop" rule, he qualifies. My guess is this would translate to a 1% DNA match. While I support these programs, I think it is unfortunate that they have to exist. If conscious/unconscious racial bias did not continue to exist, we would not need these programs at all.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:09 pm    Post subject:

BadGuy wrote:
jodeke wrote:
For years he identified as white. Now he’s using a DNA test to claim minority status for his business

LINK

One-drop rule

LINK


Came here to post this. According to the "one-drop" rule, he qualifies. My guess is this would translate to a 1% DNA match. While I support these programs, I think it is unfortunate that they have to exist. If conscious/unconscious racial bias did not continue to exist, we would not need these programs at all.

IMO he's playing the race card to his advantage. He's qualified but for reasons that are self serving.

If he couldn't get the benefits of the program would he accept Black as his ethnicity? On applications, in the space marked race would he check Black? I don't think so.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:17 pm    Post subject:

This keeps you up at night?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:24 pm    Post subject:

maybe I am repeating myself, but these regulations were not adopted because people with Asian origins are bad at client service.....or citizens with African origins have a genetic flaw that impedes their ability to market and advertise. The regulations are supposed to make an effort in balancing the playing field for citizens that have more likely been discriminated against, and may encounter ongoing discrimination based on physical appearance that differs from the majority. I do not know the % where the human body begins to demonstrate physical characteristics of a race/ethnicity, but I am confident that experts in the science fields that study related areas could tell us a solid round number that would include the vast majority of individuals the law is intended to serve....and from that guys picture, I am confident it is greater than 4%.
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