A DNA test said a man was 4% black. Now he wants to qualify as a minority business owner.
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:25 pm    Post subject:

Dladi Vidac wrote:
This keeps you up at night?


NO!! The only thing that causes me to lose sleep and have nightmares is Donald John Trump.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:29 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
maybe I am repeating myself, but these regulations were not adopted because people with Asian origins are bad at client service.....or citizens with African origins have a genetic flaw that impedes their ability to market and advertise. The regulations are supposed to make an effort in balancing the playing field for citizens that have more likely been discriminated against, and may encounter ongoing discrimination based on physical appearance that differs from the majority. I do not know the % where the human body begins to demonstrate physical characteristics of a race/ethnicity, but I am confident that experts in the science fields that study related areas could tell us a solid round number that would include the vast majority of individuals the law is intended to serve....and from that guys picture, I am confident it is greater than 4%.

Really? That's amazing! How did you come up with 4%?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:32 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
adkindo wrote:
maybe I am repeating myself, but these regulations were not adopted because people with Asian origins are bad at client service.....or citizens with African origins have a genetic flaw that impedes their ability to market and advertise. The regulations are supposed to make an effort in balancing the playing field for citizens that have more likely been discriminated against, and may encounter ongoing discrimination based on physical appearance that differs from the majority. I do not know the % where the human body begins to demonstrate physical characteristics of a race/ethnicity, but I am confident that experts in the science fields that study related areas could tell us a solid round number that would include the vast majority of individuals the law is intended to serve....and from that guys picture, I am confident it is greater than 4%.

Really? That's amazing! How did you come up with 4%?


not sure what you mean? The guy in the article is claiming he is 4% minority, right?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:33 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
jodeke wrote:
adkindo wrote:
maybe I am repeating myself, but these regulations were not adopted because people with Asian origins are bad at client service.....or citizens with African origins have a genetic flaw that impedes their ability to market and advertise. The regulations are supposed to make an effort in balancing the playing field for citizens that have more likely been discriminated against, and may encounter ongoing discrimination based on physical appearance that differs from the majority. I do not know the % where the human body begins to demonstrate physical characteristics of a race/ethnicity, but I am confident that experts in the science fields that study related areas could tell us a solid round number that would include the vast majority of individuals the law is intended to serve....and from that guys picture, I am confident it is greater than 4%.

Really? That's amazing! How did you come up with 4%?


not sure what you mean? The guy in the article is claiming he is 4% minority, right?

I know his claims. I'm wondering how his picture caused you to be confident he's 4%
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:38 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
adkindo wrote:
jodeke wrote:
adkindo wrote:
maybe I am repeating myself, but these regulations were not adopted because people with Asian origins are bad at client service.....or citizens with African origins have a genetic flaw that impedes their ability to market and advertise. The regulations are supposed to make an effort in balancing the playing field for citizens that have more likely been discriminated against, and may encounter ongoing discrimination based on physical appearance that differs from the majority. I do not know the % where the human body begins to demonstrate physical characteristics of a race/ethnicity, but I am confident that experts in the science fields that study related areas could tell us a solid round number that would include the vast majority of individuals the law is intended to serve....and from that guys picture, I am confident it is greater than 4%.

Really? That's amazing! How did you come up with 4%?


not sure what you mean? The guy in the article is claiming he is 4% minority, right?

I know his claims. I'm wondering how his picture caused you to be confident he's 4%


yeah, one of us must be misunderstanding the other. The guy claims to be 4% minority.....I do not see any physical characteristics that suggest he is anything beyond Caucasian. Therefore, my assumption is a person would usually have a larger % of minority than the 4% he claims to demonstrate physical characteristics of that race/ethnicity.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:43 pm    Post subject:

For the record, he's claiming he's 10% minority; 6 % Native American, and 4% Sub-Saharan African. He is basing his estimations on the results of a discredited, and now defunct company that previously had made such agregious errors as:

Quote:
A CBC investigation earlier this year showed a DNA testing company informing a customer that he was 20 percent Native American. There was only one problem:

The saliva came from a dog.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:52 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
jodeke wrote:
adkindo wrote:
jodeke wrote:
adkindo wrote:
maybe I am repeating myself, but these regulations were not adopted because people with Asian origins are bad at client service.....or citizens with African origins have a genetic flaw that impedes their ability to market and advertise. The regulations are supposed to make an effort in balancing the playing field for citizens that have more likely been discriminated against, and may encounter ongoing discrimination based on physical appearance that differs from the majority. I do not know the % where the human body begins to demonstrate physical characteristics of a race/ethnicity, but I am confident that experts in the science fields that study related areas could tell us a solid round number that would include the vast majority of individuals the law is intended to serve....and from that guys picture, I am confident it is greater than 4%.

Really? That's amazing! How did you come up with 4%?


not sure what you mean? The guy in the article is claiming he is 4% minority, right?

I know his claims. I'm wondering how his picture caused you to be confident he's 4%


yeah, one of us must be misunderstanding the other. The guy claims to be 4% minority.....I do not see any physical characteristics that suggest he is anything beyond Caucasian. Therefore, my assumption is a person would usually have a larger % of minority than the 4% he claims to demonstrate physical characteristics of that race/ethnicity.

Not a answer. I don't see flared nostrils, large lips associated with Black. I'm not debating he's 4%, he may be. I'm wondering how you saw that from his picture which is what you posted.
Quote:
and from that guys picture, I am confident it is greater than 4%
Please, don't move the goal posts.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:10 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
adkindo wrote:
jodeke wrote:
adkindo wrote:
jodeke wrote:
adkindo wrote:
maybe I am repeating myself, but these regulations were not adopted because people with Asian origins are bad at client service.....or citizens with African origins have a genetic flaw that impedes their ability to market and advertise. The regulations are supposed to make an effort in balancing the playing field for citizens that have more likely been discriminated against, and may encounter ongoing discrimination based on physical appearance that differs from the majority. I do not know the % where the human body begins to demonstrate physical characteristics of a race/ethnicity, but I am confident that experts in the science fields that study related areas could tell us a solid round number that would include the vast majority of individuals the law is intended to serve....and from that guys picture, I am confident it is greater than 4%.

Really? That's amazing! How did you come up with 4%?


not sure what you mean? The guy in the article is claiming he is 4% minority, right?

I know his claims. I'm wondering how his picture caused you to be confident he's 4%


yeah, one of us must be misunderstanding the other. The guy claims to be 4% minority.....I do not see any physical characteristics that suggest he is anything beyond Caucasian. Therefore, my assumption is a person would usually have a larger % of minority than the 4% he claims to demonstrate physical characteristics of that race/ethnicity.

Not a answer. I don't see flared nostrils, large lips associated with Black. I'm not debating he's 4%, he may be. I'm wondering how you saw that from his picture which is what you posted.
Quote:
and from that guys picture, I am confident it is greater than 4%
Please, don't move the goal posts.

He is saying that you can't see the racial features in this person, therefore it must take more than 4% for those features to become noticeable.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:12 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
BadGuy wrote:
jodeke wrote:
For years he identified as white. Now he’s using a DNA test to claim minority status for his business

LINK

One-drop rule

LINK


Came here to post this. According to the "one-drop" rule, he qualifies. My guess is this would translate to a 1% DNA match. While I support these programs, I think it is unfortunate that they have to exist. If conscious/unconscious racial bias did not continue to exist, we would not need these programs at all.

IMO he's playing the race card to his advantage. He's qualified but for reasons that are self serving.

If he couldn't get the benefits of the program would he accept Black as his ethnicity? On applications, in the space marked race would he check Black? I don't think so.


Which is why race-based benefits programs are problematic.

Wish we would focus on help individuals who need help, regardless of the volume of melatonin in their skin. What a concept!
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:19 pm    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
jodeke wrote:
adkindo wrote:
jodeke wrote:
adkindo wrote:
jodeke wrote:
adkindo wrote:
maybe I am repeating myself, but these regulations were not adopted because people with Asian origins are bad at client service.....or citizens with African origins have a genetic flaw that impedes their ability to market and advertise. The regulations are supposed to make an effort in balancing the playing field for citizens that have more likely been discriminated against, and may encounter ongoing discrimination based on physical appearance that differs from the majority. I do not know the % where the human body begins to demonstrate physical characteristics of a race/ethnicity, but I am confident that experts in the science fields that study related areas could tell us a solid round number that would include the vast majority of individuals the law is intended to serve....[b]and from that guys picture, I am confident it is greater than 4%[/b].

Really? That's amazing! How did you come up with 4%?


not sure what you mean? The guy in the article is claiming he is 4% minority, right?

I know his claims. I'm wondering how his picture caused you to be confident he's 4%


yeah, one of us must be misunderstanding the other. The guy claims to be 4% minority.....I do not see any physical characteristics that suggest he is anything beyond Caucasian. Therefore, my assumption is a person would usually have a larger % of minority than the 4% he claims to demonstrate physical characteristics of that race/ethnicity.

Not a answer. I don't see flared nostrils, large lips associated with Black. I'm not debating he's 4%, he may be. I'm wondering how you saw that from his picture which is what you posted.
Quote:
and from that guys picture, I am confident it is greater than 4%
Please, don't move the goal posts.

He is saying that you can't see the racial features in this person, therefore it must take more than 4% for those features to become noticeable.


WOW, thanks JMK. Damn, I'm slow on the uptake. If that's where you're coming from AK, I get it. FINALLY! Can you understand the reason for my confusion? Gave myself a F for reading comprehension.
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Last edited by jodeke on Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:43 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Dladi Vidac wrote:
This keeps you up at night?


NO!! The only thing that causes me to lose sleep and have nightmares is Donald John Trump.


The question wasn’t directed to you homie. It was to the OP.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:46 pm    Post subject:

Dladi Vidac wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Dladi Vidac wrote:
This keeps you up at night?


NO!! The only thing that causes me to lose sleep and have nightmares is Donald John Trump.


The question wasn’t directed to you homie. It was to the OP.

Oooootay.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:51 pm    Post subject: Re: A DNA test said a man was 4% black. Now he wants to qualify as a minority business owner.

ringfinger wrote:
As a biracial minority, I’ve long not been a fan of programs based on race. Here’s a great example of why:

Quote:
The legal battle got its start in 2013. With the test results in hand, Taylor applied to get his insurance agency certified as a minority-owned business by Washington state’s Office of Minority and Women’s Business Enterprises. As the Seattle Times first reported, he was initially rejected on the grounds that he wasn’t visibly identifiable as a minority.

...

Federal law defines black Americans as “persons having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.” Taylor’s lawsuit notes that the statute doesn’t set a minimum percentage of African DNA that an individual needs to be considered black.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/09/25/a-dna-test-said-he-was-4-black-now-he-wants-to-qualify-as-a-minority-business-owner/?noredirect=on


It’s not a great example, it’s taking an outlier and forwarding it as a reason to discredit something you dislike.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:22 am    Post subject: Re: A DNA test said a man was 4% black. Now he wants to qualify as a minority business owner.

Omar Little wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
As a biracial minority, I’ve long not been a fan of programs based on race. Here’s a great example of why:

Quote:
The legal battle got its start in 2013. With the test results in hand, Taylor applied to get his insurance agency certified as a minority-owned business by Washington state’s Office of Minority and Women’s Business Enterprises. As the Seattle Times first reported, he was initially rejected on the grounds that he wasn’t visibly identifiable as a minority.

...

Federal law defines black Americans as “persons having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.” Taylor’s lawsuit notes that the statute doesn’t set a minimum percentage of African DNA that an individual needs to be considered black.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/09/25/a-dna-test-said-he-was-4-black-now-he-wants-to-qualify-as-a-minority-business-owner/?noredirect=on


It’s not a great example, it’s taking an outlier and forwarding it as a reason to discredit something you dislike.


Well, of course it's an outlier. The masses haven't had access to conduct DNA tests on their ethnic makeup until recently.

This case has the potential to set precedent for, or at the very least a broader discussion on, how we qualify and disqualify an individual for a particular ethnic-based benefit program.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:29 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
maybe I am repeating myself, but these regulations were not adopted because people with Asian origins are bad at client service.....or citizens with African origins have a genetic flaw that impedes their ability to market and advertise. The regulations are supposed to make an effort in balancing the playing field for citizens that have more likely been discriminated against, and may encounter ongoing discrimination based on physical appearance that differs from the majority. I do not know the % where the human body begins to demonstrate physical characteristics of a race/ethnicity, but I am confident that experts in the science fields that study related areas could tell us a solid round number that would include the vast majority of individuals the law is intended to serve....and from that guys picture, I am confident it is greater than 4%.


I'm all for the bolded although personally I feel it should be financially/economically based. Separately, I think it's also valid for descendant of US slaves to ask for reparation from US government (with method of proof of lineage and calculated lost wages of the time)
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:44 am    Post subject:

Dladi Vidac wrote:
This keeps you up at night?


You’ll notice that rich white guys taking advantage of financial loopholes curiously doesn’t keep them up at night.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:01 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
maybe I am repeating myself, but these regulations were not adopted because people with Asian origins are bad at client service.....or citizens with African origins have a genetic flaw that impedes their ability to market and advertise. The regulations are supposed to make an effort in balancing the playing field for citizens that have more likely been discriminated against, and may encounter ongoing discrimination based on physical appearance that differs from the majority. I do not know the % where the human body begins to demonstrate physical characteristics of a race/ethnicity, but I am confident that experts in the science fields that study related areas could tell us a solid round number that would include the vast majority of individuals the law is intended to serve....and from that guys picture, I am confident it is greater than 4%.


How about those that are genetically black but physically could pass off for white?

They had those during the slave days as well
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:36 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
adkindo wrote:
maybe I am repeating myself, but these regulations were not adopted because people with Asian origins are bad at client service.....or citizens with African origins have a genetic flaw that impedes their ability to market and advertise. The regulations are supposed to make an effort in balancing the playing field for citizens that have more likely been discriminated against, and may encounter ongoing discrimination based on physical appearance that differs from the majority. I do not know the % where the human body begins to demonstrate physical characteristics of a race/ethnicity, but I am confident that experts in the science fields that study related areas could tell us a solid round number that would include the vast majority of individuals the law is intended to serve....and from that guys picture, I am confident it is greater than 4%.


How about those that are genetically black but physically could pass off for white?

They had those during the slave days as well


That is going to happen....and I am speaking without knowledge in the subject, but my assumption is that there is a % that would sufficiently catch 95+% of the intended parties. Sure a few % that we could debate should be included that might get left out...and a few % may get included that appear not to be who the legislation was designed to benefit. I assume there is no perfect method, but the goal should be to serve the most as intended, while preventing as much abuse as possible. If we go with anyone that has any % of minority in their genetic makeup, then we all become minorities, which means there are no minorities, and the special classification of the business is pointless.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:42 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
adkindo wrote:
maybe I am repeating myself, but these regulations were not adopted because people with Asian origins are bad at client service.....or citizens with African origins have a genetic flaw that impedes their ability to market and advertise. The regulations are supposed to make an effort in balancing the playing field for citizens that have more likely been discriminated against, and may encounter ongoing discrimination based on physical appearance that differs from the majority. I do not know the % where the human body begins to demonstrate physical characteristics of a race/ethnicity, but I am confident that experts in the science fields that study related areas could tell us a solid round number that would include the vast majority of individuals the law is intended to serve....and from that guys picture, I am confident it is greater than 4%.


How about those that are genetically black but physically could pass off for white?

They had those during the slave days as well


That is going to happen....and I am speaking without knowledge in the subject, but my assumption is that there is a % that would sufficiently catch 95+% of the intended parties. Sure a few % that we could debate should be included that might get left out...and a few % may get included that appear not to be who the legislation was designed to benefit. I assume there is no perfect method, but the goal should be to serve the most as intended, while preventing as much abuse as possible. If we go with anyone that has any % of minority in their genetic makeup, then we all become minorities, which means there are no minorities, and the special classification of the business is pointless.


Maybe it's time to get away from programs that serve to assist people based on the color of their skin, or the size of their nose, or the shape of their eyes.

Seems like a very dated (and racist) approach that doesn't work in a modern society that has so much racial intermixing.

Help those who need help, regardless of their physical characteristics.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:51 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Maybe it's time to get away from programs that serve to assist people based on the color of their skin, or the size of their nose, or the shape of their eyes.

Seems like a very dated (and racist) approach that doesn't work in a modern society that has so much racial intermixing.

Help those who need help, regardless of their physical characteristics.


I was not giving an opinion on the effectiveness of the programs or even how I personally feel about the program....just an opinion on the intent of the program.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: A DNA test said a man was 4% black. Now he wants to qualify as a minority business owner.

ringfinger wrote:
As a biracial minority, I’ve long not been a fan of programs based on race. Here’s a great example of why:

Quote:
The legal battle got its start in 2013. With the test results in hand, Taylor applied to get his insurance agency certified as a minority-owned business by Washington state’s Office of Minority and Women’s Business Enterprises. As the Seattle Times first reported, he was initially rejected on the grounds that he wasn’t visibly identifiable as a minority.

...

Federal law defines black Americans as “persons having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.” Taylor’s lawsuit notes that the statute doesn’t set a minimum percentage of African DNA that an individual needs to be considered black.




https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/09/25/a-dna-test-said-he-was-4-black-now-he-wants-to-qualify-as-a-minority-business-owner/?noredirect=on


Ring. the only reason to base a program on race is to play catchup for the races that were INTENTIONALLY put behind and are currently still INTENTIONALLY put behind. If that were not the case, I would agree with you 1000%. but until that catchup is caught up. Then you have to do this. The problem is when you dont do it where it makes logical sense.

4% black aint going to cut it. put that in the law/rule.

It's simple. if your percentage is X amt(very high. we can come to a conclusion) OR if your physical appearance (from birth. not of someone who has gone and had work done) is that you appear to be of a much darker hue. we can easily pull out the hue rating if you want to go there. Then you can reap the benefits of a minority. Because truth is, its more about the Optics than it is about anything else. Obama is 50% African and 50% White. yet he looks like a black man. The look is what would cause him issues in society. If we really wanted to be super fair. we could scale the benefits based on the darker you are the more benefits you will receive to catch you up. Because we do know even among people of color. the lighter you are the better you're treated (on average).

this aint rocket science. it can be done in a way that works 70 to 80% of the time. I refuse to destroy a program based on the outliers. the 20% is a reason to keep tweaking said program(s) to make it cover 90%. you will never get it 100% right. but 80% right is better than 0% which is what we have without race based programs.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: A DNA test said a man was 4% black. Now he wants to qualify as a minority business owner.

splashmtn wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
As a biracial minority, I’ve long not been a fan of programs based on race. Here’s a great example of why:

Quote:
The legal battle got its start in 2013. With the test results in hand, Taylor applied to get his insurance agency certified as a minority-owned business by Washington state’s Office of Minority and Women’s Business Enterprises. As the Seattle Times first reported, he was initially rejected on the grounds that he wasn’t visibly identifiable as a minority.

...

Federal law defines black Americans as “persons having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.” Taylor’s lawsuit notes that the statute doesn’t set a minimum percentage of African DNA that an individual needs to be considered black.




https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/09/25/a-dna-test-said-he-was-4-black-now-he-wants-to-qualify-as-a-minority-business-owner/?noredirect=on


Ring. the only reason to base a program on race is to play catchup for the races that were INTENTIONALLY put behind and are currently still INTENTIONALLY put behind. If that were not the case, I would agree with you 1000%. but until that catchup is caught up. Then you have to do this. The problem is when you dont do it where it makes logical sense.

4% black aint going to cut it. put that in the law/rule.

It's simple. if your percentage is X amt(very high. we can come to a conclusion) OR if your physical appearance (from birth. not of someone who has gone and had work done) is that you appear to be of a much darker hue. we can easily pull out the hue rating if you want to go there. Then you can reap the benefits of a minority. Because truth is, its more about the Optics than it is about anything else. Obama is 50% African and 50% White. yet he looks like a black man. The look is what would cause him issues in society. If we really wanted to be super fair. we could scale the benefits based on the darker you are the more benefits you will receive to catch you up. Because we do know even among people of color. the lighter you are the better you're treated (on average).

this aint rocket science. it can be done in a way that works 70 to 80% of the time. I refuse to destroy a program based on the outliers. the 20% is a reason to keep tweaking said program(s) to make it cover 90%. you will never get it 100% right. but 80% right is better than 0% which is what we have without race based programs.


why would it be 0% without race based program, what about economically disadvantage program?
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: A DNA test said a man was 4% black. Now he wants to qualify as a minority business owner.

governator wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
As a biracial minority, I’ve long not been a fan of programs based on race. Here’s a great example of why:

Quote:
The legal battle got its start in 2013. With the test results in hand, Taylor applied to get his insurance agency certified as a minority-owned business by Washington state’s Office of Minority and Women’s Business Enterprises. As the Seattle Times first reported, he was initially rejected on the grounds that he wasn’t visibly identifiable as a minority.

...

Federal law defines black Americans as “persons having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.” Taylor’s lawsuit notes that the statute doesn’t set a minimum percentage of African DNA that an individual needs to be considered black.




https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/09/25/a-dna-test-said-he-was-4-black-now-he-wants-to-qualify-as-a-minority-business-owner/?noredirect=on


Ring. the only reason to base a program on race is to play catchup for the races that were INTENTIONALLY put behind and are currently still INTENTIONALLY put behind. If that were not the case, I would agree with you 1000%. but until that catchup is caught up. Then you have to do this. The problem is when you dont do it where it makes logical sense.

4% black aint going to cut it. put that in the law/rule.

It's simple. if your percentage is X amt(very high. we can come to a conclusion) OR if your physical appearance (from birth. not of someone who has gone and had work done) is that you appear to be of a much darker hue. we can easily pull out the hue rating if you want to go there. Then you can reap the benefits of a minority. Because truth is, its more about the Optics than it is about anything else. Obama is 50% African and 50% White. yet he looks like a black man. The look is what would cause him issues in society. If we really wanted to be super fair. we could scale the benefits based on the darker you are the more benefits you will receive to catch you up. Because we do know even among people of color. the lighter you are the better you're treated (on average).

this aint rocket science. it can be done in a way that works 70 to 80% of the time. I refuse to destroy a program based on the outliers. the 20% is a reason to keep tweaking said program(s) to make it cover 90%. you will never get it 100% right. but 80% right is better than 0% which is what we have without race based programs.


why would it be 0% without race based program, what about economically disadvantage program?


economically disadvantage programs would help if the powers that be and those voting people in didnt think of things based on the races they feel are the brokest. Welfare queen (thanks repubs) = Black woman in the eyes and ears of white voters. even though there are quite a few white americans men/women on welfare. That mentality is one of the main reasons our country is slow to vote for universal healthcare vs other countries that are more european from a racial makeup. This is also why people dont want free anything. It's not about the tax dollars as much as it is "I'm not about to be paying for no lazy black person or lazy mexican."

^that is the mentality that destroys the "help the economically challenged" argument. which is why you have to use race. In addition, not making it race based is acting as if 100's of years things were not purposely set aside and done to help the white race in america(which they were). So in order to make things fair. you need to do the very same thing for those other races you held back.


See this isnt a race where you held the black guy back and let the white guy start early.

No, you held the black guy back, thru obstacles in his way once you allowed him to start his race. then you also took any thing away from him that he started to use for his advantage and give those things to the white guy so he could run an even better race while the black guy runs a worse race. there are laws on the books that were specifically/strategically setup to slow the black guy down while also speeding the white guy up.

There is only way to make that right and thats by admitting to it and doing the exact same thing you did to help the white guy, and do that for the other groups that it was originally done to. now once we're all evened out. then we can take it away. but until then. NOPE
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: A DNA test said a man was 4% black. Now he wants to qualify as a minority business owner.

splashmtn wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
As a biracial minority, I’ve long not been a fan of programs based on race. Here’s a great example of why:

Quote:
The legal battle got its start in 2013. With the test results in hand, Taylor applied to get his insurance agency certified as a minority-owned business by Washington state’s Office of Minority and Women’s Business Enterprises. As the Seattle Times first reported, he was initially rejected on the grounds that he wasn’t visibly identifiable as a minority.

...

Federal law defines black Americans as “persons having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.” Taylor’s lawsuit notes that the statute doesn’t set a minimum percentage of African DNA that an individual needs to be considered black.




https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/09/25/a-dna-test-said-he-was-4-black-now-he-wants-to-qualify-as-a-minority-business-owner/?noredirect=on


Ring. the only reason to base a program on race is to play catchup for the races that were INTENTIONALLY put behind and are currently still INTENTIONALLY put behind. If that were not the case, I would agree with you 1000%. but until that catchup is caught up. Then you have to do this. The problem is when you dont do it where it makes logical sense.

4% black aint going to cut it. put that in the law/rule.

It's simple. if your percentage is X amt(very high. we can come to a conclusion) OR if your physical appearance (from birth. not of someone who has gone and had work done) is that you appear to be of a much darker hue. we can easily pull out the hue rating if you want to go there. Then you can reap the benefits of a minority. Because truth is, its more about the Optics than it is about anything else. Obama is 50% African and 50% White. yet he looks like a black man. The look is what would cause him issues in society. If we really wanted to be super fair. we could scale the benefits based on the darker you are the more benefits you will receive to catch you up. Because we do know even among people of color. the lighter you are the better you're treated (on average).

this aint rocket science. it can be done in a way that works 70 to 80% of the time. I refuse to destroy a program based on the outliers. the 20% is a reason to keep tweaking said program(s) to make it cover 90%. you will never get it 100% right. but 80% right is better than 0% which is what we have without race based programs.


I'm just of the opinion that we shouldn't qualify or disqualify people, for anything, based solely on the color of their skin. I think doing that sort of things evolves over time into very dangerous and divisive rhetoric.

So call me crazy, but if I had an extra plate of food to give, I'd rather give it to the white homeless man than mail it over to Harvard student Malia Obama.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:39 pm    Post subject: Re: A DNA test said a man was 4% black. Now he wants to qualify as a minority business owner.

ringfinger wrote:
I'm just of the opinion that we shouldn't qualify or disqualify people, for anything, based solely on the color of their skin. I think doing that sort of things evolves over time into very dangerous and divisive rhetoric.

So call me crazy, but if I had an extra plate of food to give, I'd rather give it to the white homeless man than mail it over to Harvard student Malia Obama.


You're getting into the general politics of affirmative action. Personally, I've never had a problem with affirmative action as a short term remedy. However, it started to become structural, which led to a backlash both in public opinion and from the courts. Today, the buzzword is diversity. Again, I have no problem with promoting diversity, but at some point it may start becoming structural again.

On this specific topic, it is hard to see how a benefit to someone who claims to have 4% sub-Saharan African ancestry promotes diversity. We're talking about someone cleverly exploiting a loophole, not a civil rights matter.

So yes, this is stupid. The so-called one drop rule is not the law. The courts or the government will need to adopt a definition to get rid of people like this, and whatever they do will piss people off.
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