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LakerSD Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23731
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:51 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | I think by the time we get to the playoffs there will be several key moves to bolster the big man spot and get rid of redundant positions. |
They might want to think about trading Kuzma if BI is their guy going forward and they're targeting guys big wings like KD and Kawhi next summer. |
I have a feeling they are invested in Kuz, and given his ridiculously cheap rookie deal, they'd move others first. |
This would be more of an issue next season after they presumably land a second max free agent, since his cheap deal keeps 2019 cap space free.
I just wonder sometimes if the front office is more invested in the man than in the player. |
Probably. Kuz's drive is really admirable and infectious. I can see how he won over the FO. |
I have no idea who stays or who goes, but I can see the FO getting the itchy trigger finger before the deadline. I think they are willing to trade 2 of the young core 4...for the right player.
Vegas is not stupid...there is something to those AD odds. Doesn’t mean it will happen, but I think there is smoke there and not something unsubstantiated. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:52 am Post subject: |
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LakerSD wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | I think by the time we get to the playoffs there will be several key moves to bolster the big man spot and get rid of redundant positions. |
They might want to think about trading Kuzma if BI is their guy going forward and they're targeting guys big wings like KD and Kawhi next summer. |
I have a feeling they are invested in Kuz, and given his ridiculously cheap rookie deal, they'd move others first. |
This would be more of an issue next season after they presumably land a second max free agent, since his cheap deal keeps 2019 cap space free.
I just wonder sometimes if the front office is more invested in the man than in the player. |
Probably. Kuz's drive is really admirable and infectious. I can see how he won over the FO. |
I have no idea who stays or who goes, but I can see the FO getting the itchy trigger finger before the deadline. I think they are willing to trade 2 of the young core 4...for the right player.
Vegas is not stupid...there is something to those AD odds. Doesn’t mean it will happen, but I think there is smoke there and not something unsubstantiated. |
You will have to empty out the youngsters to do so. Maybe we could keep Lonzo, but I could see the beginning price being BI/Kuz/Hart/2-3 future 1sts (and other teams can offer better deals). _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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The Juggernaut Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 4572
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | The Juggernaut wrote: | Biggest takeaway was that Luke still has no idea how to run rotations. There is no way in hell that Lance, Beasley, and Kuzma should be on the court at the same time. I know it's gonna be a hard pill to swallow for most but I don't think Luke is the right coach for this team. We're in for a frustrating season of mind boggling rotations and lineups. |
After 1 preseason game you’re criticizing rotations? Are you (bleep) kidding?
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Yep. This game was more about getting guys some playing time than about rotations. |
We'll see if Luke has improved his biggest weakness the last 2 years. I do not believe he has. Trying to put Kuz at small ball center |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:56 am Post subject: |
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The Juggernaut wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | The Juggernaut wrote: | Biggest takeaway was that Luke still has no idea how to run rotations. There is no way in hell that Lance, Beasley, and Kuzma should be on the court at the same time. I know it's gonna be a hard pill to swallow for most but I don't think Luke is the right coach for this team. We're in for a frustrating season of mind boggling rotations and lineups. |
After 1 preseason game you’re criticizing rotations? Are you (bleep) kidding?
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Yep. This game was more about getting guys some playing time than about rotations. |
We'll see if Luke has improved his biggest weakness the last 2 years. I do not believe he has. Trying to put Kuz at small ball center |
It looked horrible, but when else is he supposed to experiment with that?
If he tries that in the regular season he’ll deserve criticism. |
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LakerSD Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23731
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:57 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: |
You will have to empty out the youngsters to do so. Maybe we could keep Lonzo, but I could see the beginning price being BI/Kuz/Hart/2-3 future 1sts (and other teams can offer better deals). |
Yeah, not saying I agree...just that I could see the Lakers FO trying to cash in. Especially if they don’t think any of KD, Kawhi or Klay are coming. |
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The Juggernaut Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 4572
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:59 am Post subject: |
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Why does Zubac look so damn horrible still? He looked good during the Summer playing for Croatia. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:01 am Post subject: |
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The Juggernaut wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | The Juggernaut wrote: | Biggest takeaway was that Luke still has no idea how to run rotations. There is no way in hell that Lance, Beasley, and Kuzma should be on the court at the same time. I know it's gonna be a hard pill to swallow for most but I don't think Luke is the right coach for this team. We're in for a frustrating season of mind boggling rotations and lineups. |
After 1 preseason game you’re criticizing rotations? Are you (bleep) kidding?
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Yep. This game was more about getting guys some playing time than about rotations. |
We'll see if Luke has improved his biggest weakness the last 2 years. I do not believe he has. Trying to put Kuz at small ball center |
I have no evidence to support this, but I have a suspicion that the idea of playing Kuzma at the 5 came from upstairs. Kuzma is a 3/4, not a 4/5. Sure, you could stick Kuzma at the 5 in some sort of specialty change-of-pace lineup, but you wouldn't want to do that very often or for very long. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:03 am Post subject: |
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The Juggernaut wrote: | Why does Zubac look so damn horrible still? He looked good during the Summer playing for Croatia. |
game is too fast for him still. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | The Juggernaut wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | The Juggernaut wrote: | Biggest takeaway was that Luke still has no idea how to run rotations. There is no way in hell that Lance, Beasley, and Kuzma should be on the court at the same time. I know it's gonna be a hard pill to swallow for most but I don't think Luke is the right coach for this team. We're in for a frustrating season of mind boggling rotations and lineups. |
After 1 preseason game you’re criticizing rotations? Are you (bleep) kidding?
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Yep. This game was more about getting guys some playing time than about rotations. |
We'll see if Luke has improved his biggest weakness the last 2 years. I do not believe he has. Trying to put Kuz at small ball center |
I have no evidence to support this, but I have a suspicion that the idea of playing Kuzma at the 5 came from upstairs. Kuzma is a 3/4, not a 4/5. Sure, you could stick Kuzma at the 5 in some sort of specialty change-of-pace lineup, but you wouldn't want to do that very often or for very long. |
I get that feeling too. |
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pokoy Moderator
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 14545
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:09 am Post subject: |
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BigGameHames wrote: | pokoy wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | We had an offseason thread about rebounding problems and people dismissed it as “ things will work out”. It is a real problem. |
Yep, rebounding is what is going to haunt us all season. We have athletes but no bangers. Losing Brook Lopez (who didn't have high rebounding #s but did box out a ton for others) and Julius Randle will do that. |
We were missing our second best rebounder from last year who put on weight in the offseason. LeBron only played the first half. It’s an issue, but I’m not convinced it’s a dire one yet. |
Lonzo is a great rebounder at his position but he is no banger. Need someone to do the dirty work of boxing out. As is, I think Lebron and Josh Hart are our most physical players inside, which shouldn't be the case.
I think this is where Mo can help us, although as a rookie he won't have the man-body needed to be as physical as we need him for the whole grind. Hell he still hasn't even gotten cleared from his bone bruise. |
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pokoy Moderator
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 14545
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:11 am Post subject: |
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BigGameHames wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | The Juggernaut wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | The Juggernaut wrote: | Biggest takeaway was that Luke still has no idea how to run rotations. There is no way in hell that Lance, Beasley, and Kuzma should be on the court at the same time. I know it's gonna be a hard pill to swallow for most but I don't think Luke is the right coach for this team. We're in for a frustrating season of mind boggling rotations and lineups. |
After 1 preseason game you’re criticizing rotations? Are you (bleep) kidding?
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Yep. This game was more about getting guys some playing time than about rotations. |
We'll see if Luke has improved his biggest weakness the last 2 years. I do not believe he has. Trying to put Kuz at small ball center |
I have no evidence to support this, but I have a suspicion that the idea of playing Kuzma at the 5 came from upstairs. Kuzma is a 3/4, not a 4/5. Sure, you could stick Kuzma at the 5 in some sort of specialty change-of-pace lineup, but you wouldn't want to do that very often or for very long. |
I get that feeling too. |
Same. If there's one thing I wish Magic wouldn't do, it's coach from his seat. Last night I swear he mouthed "4 more minutes" up toward the bench, and a few mins later Rondo was out for good. |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:11 am Post subject: |
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Sentient Meat wrote: | I'm extremely irritated at those who said a long positionless lineup would immediately translate into defense.
Obviously it's early and we will get much better by the time the season begins, but we had the same issues that we had last year and now there's no tiny person to blame.
We need shooters. I believe in Svi... and I think our youngsters will continue to improve... but if we can't lock anyone down then this offense will not be able to defeat people in a pure scoring contest.
We also need one more McGee type player. JaVale did great but we know about his asthma issues and it would have really helped to take Dwight for a year. Ingram was also pretty good in this respect.
But man that defense was pathetic... and the only reason I was cool with this lineup is that I thought they'd lock things down and do well on the boards. I get that LBJ only played a few minutes, that we didn't have Zo... but I expected us to beat them and this was rough to watch. |
I thought some of the small ball lineups showed flashes on defense, but they were hindered more by Rondo and Stephenson than Beasley at C. _________________ Under New Management |
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CantStopJM Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2017 Posts: 2992
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Zubac is one of the worst players in the league |
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The Juggernaut Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 4572
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | The Juggernaut wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | The Juggernaut wrote: | Biggest takeaway was that Luke still has no idea how to run rotations. There is no way in hell that Lance, Beasley, and Kuzma should be on the court at the same time. I know it's gonna be a hard pill to swallow for most but I don't think Luke is the right coach for this team. We're in for a frustrating season of mind boggling rotations and lineups. |
After 1 preseason game you’re criticizing rotations? Are you (bleep) kidding?
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Yep. This game was more about getting guys some playing time than about rotations. |
We'll see if Luke has improved his biggest weakness the last 2 years. I do not believe he has. Trying to put Kuz at small ball center |
I have no evidence to support this, but I have a suspicion that the idea of playing Kuzma at the 5 came from upstairs. Kuzma is a 3/4, not a 4/5. Sure, you could stick Kuzma at the 5 in some sort of specialty change-of-pace lineup, but you wouldn't want to do that very often or for very long. |
That theory was used last year too by posters to excuse Luke's poor coaching decisions. I don't buy it. But if it was true then Luke's even worse than I thought because we need a coach that can't be bullied by the FO. \
I really hope I'm wrong and Luke has figured out his major weakness and will implement a solution for his bad rotations. |
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scoobs Star Player
Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 4746
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Hart looks like a pure shooter out there. When he is at the line, he looks confident and i feel like its going to go in. Nothing but net. That is not the case with Ingram and even Kuzma some times. Ingram is still shaky from the FT line and Kuzma is capable of clanking from time to time for no apparent reason. Hart seems cool as a cucumber out there. |
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Great One Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 3166 Location: Girl I'm Back in Spanish Town
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:13 am Post subject: |
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calistrtballr wrote: | Not sure about bron at the 4. Kcp was useless out there...both ends. BI looked good. Lance was also impressive. The dropoff from randle to kuz at center is hugeeeeeee. Thats barbQ-chicken down low. Zubac needs more playing time. Our post game is nonexistent |
pretty much this, and start lance at the 2 instead of KCP. This team is in desperate need of a back up center and post player _________________ "Nobody hates the good ones. They hate the great ones." - KB |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:14 am Post subject: |
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pokoy wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | The Juggernaut wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | The Juggernaut wrote: | Biggest takeaway was that Luke still has no idea how to run rotations. There is no way in hell that Lance, Beasley, and Kuzma should be on the court at the same time. I know it's gonna be a hard pill to swallow for most but I don't think Luke is the right coach for this team. We're in for a frustrating season of mind boggling rotations and lineups. |
After 1 preseason game you’re criticizing rotations? Are you (bleep) kidding?
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Yep. This game was more about getting guys some playing time than about rotations. |
We'll see if Luke has improved his biggest weakness the last 2 years. I do not believe he has. Trying to put Kuz at small ball center |
I have no evidence to support this, but I have a suspicion that the idea of playing Kuzma at the 5 came from upstairs. Kuzma is a 3/4, not a 4/5. Sure, you could stick Kuzma at the 5 in some sort of specialty change-of-pace lineup, but you wouldn't want to do that very often or for very long. |
I get that feeling too. |
Same. If there's one thing I wish Magic wouldn't do, it's coach from his seat. Last night I swear he mouthed "4 more minutes" up toward the bench, and a few mins later Rondo was out for good. |
I noticed that too and don’t have a problem with it as long as it ends after the preseason. They may have decided on X number of minutes per player and Luke can’t be expected to keep tabs on all of the guys in that way. |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:16 am Post subject: |
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pokoy wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | pokoy wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | We had an offseason thread about rebounding problems and people dismissed it as “ things will work out”. It is a real problem. |
Yep, rebounding is what is going to haunt us all season. We have athletes but no bangers. Losing Brook Lopez (who didn't have high rebounding #s but did box out a ton for others) and Julius Randle will do that. |
We were missing our second best rebounder from last year who put on weight in the offseason. LeBron only played the first half. It’s an issue, but I’m not convinced it’s a dire one yet. |
Lonzo is a great rebounder at his position but he is no banger. Need someone to do the dirty work of boxing out. As is, I think Lebron and Josh Hart are our most physical players inside, which shouldn't be the case.
I think this is where Mo can help us, although as a rookie he won't have the man-body needed to be as physical as we need him for the whole grind. Hell he still hasn't even gotten cleared from his bone bruise. |
We could definitely use a banger which is why I said it’s an issue but I still don’t feel it’s a dire one or even the biggest on the team. |
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laker50 Star Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2014 Posts: 2140
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:20 am Post subject: |
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It shows that chemistry and playing together is important. The more a team experiments the longer it will take to get a good team.
Right now Ingram, Lonzo, Kuzma and Hart is worth at least and all star and half. At their price would not trade them this year to see what they bring. So far they have more than earnt their money.
Letting Lopez go might have been a small mistake. At least he can clog the middle and defend bigs. Zubac will not reach his level at all. And he could score.
But what is done is done.
Right now there are no bigs that are worth it unless make a trade and loose another piece. But this is the hole that is remaining.
It looks like Lebron, Rondo, and McGee were good choices.
Beasley can be. Lance a maybe.
Would resign Rondo and McGee next year at this point.
KCP is hot and cold and not consistent. |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:20 am Post subject: |
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- I'd cut Stephenson out of the rotation pretty quickly, and if he complains, I'd cut him outright. No need to get trapped by the sunken cost fallacy.
- I'd give Kuz more minutes at SF than at C. I'd like to see what a stretch of Beasley/Bron/Kuzma and Beasley/Kuzma/Ingram could do with a Lonzo/Hart backcourt. Those look like the most switchable lineups Walton can put together with this roster.
- Give Svi the remainder of Stephenson's minutes.
- I'd be intrigued to see if a McGee/Kuz/Svi/Hart/Rondo lineup could work. And fingers crossed that Zu or Wagner could earn minutes in that lineup, as well, to give McGee a rest. _________________ Under New Management |
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Killakobe81 Star Player
Joined: 19 May 2008 Posts: 1604
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:22 am Post subject: |
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So much overreaction ...
We looked "uneven" and at times not very good.
But let's chill for a bit ... |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:26 am Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: | - I'd cut Stephenson out of the rotation pretty quickly, and if he complains, I'd cut him outright. No need to get trapped by the sunken cost fallacy.
- I'd give Kuz more minutes at SF than at C. I'd like to see what a stretch of Beasley/Bron/Kuzma and Beasley/Kuzma/Ingram could do with a Lonzo/Hart backcourt. Those look like the most switchable lineups Walton can put together with this roster.
- Give Svi the remainder of Stephenson's minutes.
- I'd be intrigued to see if a McGee/Kuz/Svi/Hart/Rondo lineup could work. And fingers crossed that Zu or Wagner could earn minutes in that lineup, as well, to give McGee a rest. |
Lance was considerably better than Svi last night. Svi didn’t look like an NBA rotation caliber player. |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:35 am Post subject: |
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BigGameHames wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | - I'd cut Stephenson out of the rotation pretty quickly, and if he complains, I'd cut him outright. No need to get trapped by the sunken cost fallacy.
- I'd give Kuz more minutes at SF than at C. I'd like to see what a stretch of Beasley/Bron/Kuzma and Beasley/Kuzma/Ingram could do with a Lonzo/Hart backcourt. Those look like the most switchable lineups Walton can put together with this roster.
- Give Svi the remainder of Stephenson's minutes.
- I'd be intrigued to see if a McGee/Kuz/Svi/Hart/Rondo lineup could work. And fingers crossed that Zu or Wagner could earn minutes in that lineup, as well, to give McGee a rest. |
Lance was considerably better than Svi last night. Svi didn’t look like an NBA rotation caliber player. |
I think Stephenson earned every bit of that -28 +/- last night. He's going to be a weak link on defensive rotations and he's a ball-stopper, two things that kill the effectiveness of small ball lineups. I wonder if the front office saw him as Iguadola-lite when really he's just buff Jordan Clarkson.
Anyway, we know what Stephenson is. Last night was likely a good night from him, and it was still bad. Let's see what the 21-year-old rookie can do. _________________ Under New Management |
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ShowtimeReturns Star Player
Joined: 21 Oct 2017 Posts: 1065
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:45 am Post subject: |
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pokoy wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | The Juggernaut wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | The Juggernaut wrote: | Biggest takeaway was that Luke still has no idea how to run rotations. There is no way in hell that Lance, Beasley, and Kuzma should be on the court at the same time. I know it's gonna be a hard pill to swallow for most but I don't think Luke is the right coach for this team. We're in for a frustrating season of mind boggling rotations and lineups. |
After 1 preseason game you’re criticizing rotations? Are you (bleep) kidding?
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Yep. This game was more about getting guys some playing time than about rotations. |
We'll see if Luke has improved his biggest weakness the last 2 years. I do not believe he has. Trying to put Kuz at small ball center |
I have no evidence to support this, but I have a suspicion that the idea of playing Kuzma at the 5 came from upstairs. Kuzma is a 3/4, not a 4/5. Sure, you could stick Kuzma at the 5 in some sort of specialty change-of-pace lineup, but you wouldn't want to do that very often or for very long. |
I get that feeling too. |
Same. If there's one thing I wish Magic wouldn't do, it's coach from his seat. Last night I swear he mouthed "4 more minutes" up toward the bench, and a few mins later Rondo was out for good. |
I saw that also Magic did not look very happy at all last night |
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Startrout Star Player
Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Posts: 2141
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:18 am Post subject: |
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I thought Hart was wide open for a three several times, but no one passed him the ball. But, I’m not worried, that will come. I hoped for the Lakers to look a little better, like everyone else here, but my expectations for the season haven’t changed, I expect us to loose more than we win the first 1/3 of the season or so before things start clicking and turning around. It might be even be longer than that. When the Miami super team with LeBron first got together they started off bad too and they had multiple stars. We’re still a star or two short.
Looking forward to Tuesday and the rest of the pre-season. |
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