Kevin Durant
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governator
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:49 am    Post subject: Kevin Durant

Been listening to a lot of 'debate' regarding best player in the league on Sirius NBA channel... most say LeBron but there's a few who pick KD.
Where is KD in the all time list right now. I mean all the GOAT of generation has been pretty well defined the past couple decades. MJ then Kobe then LeBron.
Has KD pass Hakeem or Duncan or Shaq at this point?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Kevin Durant

governator wrote:
Been listening to a lot of 'debate' regarding best player in the league on Sirius NBA channel... most say LeBron but there's a few who pick KD.
Where is KD in the all time list right now. I mean all the GOAT of generation has been pretty well defined the past couple decades. MJ then Kobe then LeBron.
Has KD pass Hakeem or Duncan or Shaq at this point?



I don't believe I've ever seen anyone put Durant on the GOAT short list or Top 10. Still, he just turned 30 and it's hard to firmly gauge how someone is viewed in the middle of his career.

Right now, I am not even sure there is a concensus top 10 -- seems to be 11 guys in the discussions and who falls out of it is debated. Durant is probably just behind the big 11 now, alongside Oscar.

Among some people, he probably has a little stigma because he won his two rings by joining a stacked team, but that will probably diminish over time.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Kevin Durant

activeverb wrote:
governator wrote:
Been listening to a lot of 'debate' regarding best player in the league on Sirius NBA channel... most say LeBron but there's a few who pick KD.
Where is KD in the all time list right now. I mean all the GOAT of generation has been pretty well defined the past couple decades. MJ then Kobe then LeBron.
Has KD pass Hakeem or Duncan or Shaq at this point?



I don't believe I've ever seen anyone put Durant on the GOAT short list or Top 10. Still, he just turned 30 and it's hard to firmly gauge how someone is viewed in the middle of his career.

Right now, I am not even sure there is a concensus top 10 -- seems to be 11 guys in the discussions and who falls out of it is debated. Durant is probably just behind the big 11 now, alongside Oscar.

Among some people, he probably has a little stigma because he won his two rings by joining a stacked team, but that will probably diminish over time.


Not top 10 yet but they were talking about him passing the non-championship people like Malone/Stockton which were at around 15
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Kevin Durant

governator wrote:
activeverb wrote:
governator wrote:
Been listening to a lot of 'debate' regarding best player in the league on Sirius NBA channel... most say LeBron but there's a few who pick KD.
Where is KD in the all time list right now. I mean all the GOAT of generation has been pretty well defined the past couple decades. MJ then Kobe then LeBron.
Has KD pass Hakeem or Duncan or Shaq at this point?



I don't believe I've ever seen anyone put Durant on the GOAT short list or Top 10. Still, he just turned 30 and it's hard to firmly gauge how someone is viewed in the middle of his career.

Right now, I am not even sure there is a concensus top 10 -- seems to be 11 guys in the discussions and who falls out of it is debated. Durant is probably just behind the big 11 now, alongside Oscar.

Among some people, he probably has a little stigma because he won his two rings by joining a stacked team, but that will probably diminish over time.


Not top 10 yet but they were talking about him passing the non-championship people like Malone/Stockton which were at around 15


I'd definitely agree with that.

Regarding best in the game right now he and Bron are top of. list. Bron 1, Kd 2 in my mind. Steph and others come later. Brons bound to eventually age and at that point KD takes the best in the league honors. Maybe 1 or 2 more seasons.

Also regarding GOAT ever, not sure it's been settled as MJ, Kobe, Bron. Rather there's many who'd argue its MJ, Bron then everyone else.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:08 pm    Post subject:

Total skill level, KD is beyond more gifted than probably most of the top 10. But...to get in there, body of work matters. KD's resume is still a bit short. 11-20 right now imo.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:52 pm    Post subject:

The reason I can't put Durant in the top ten is because he never led OKC to a title. He instead blew a 3-1 series lead to GSW and then joined them. It's tough to give him credit for being the best player on a championship team when that team had won the championship and then went 73-9 prior to getting him.

IMO him joining Golden State also hurts Curry's legacy. Now I sort of think of Curry as a guy who led his team to one championship and then played sidekick to Durant.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:09 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
The reason I can't put Durant in the top ten is because he never led OKC to a title. He instead blew a 3-1 series lead to GSW and then joined them. It's tough to give him credit for being the best player on a championship team when that team had won the championship and then went 73-9 prior to getting him.

IMO him joining Golden State also hurts Curry's legacy. Now I sort of think of Curry as a guy who led his team to one championship and then played sidekick to Durant.



For me this is a bit of a red herring. Most of the guys on the GOAT short list played on stacked teams. I've never heard anyone say that Bird's rings are lessened because he played with four other Hall of Famers.

That said, I agree that some people have a negative perception of Durant joining a great team by free agency instead of being lucky enough to have a great team built around him.

However, as superstars continue to move around, and this becomes more of the new normal, I predict the stigma will disappear over time. I think fans are starting to accept that players don't really care what jersey they wear and they'll move around to any team that provides the best situation for them
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:13 am    Post subject: Re: Kevin Durant

governator wrote:
Been listening to a lot of 'debate' regarding best player in the league on Sirius NBA channel... most say LeBron but there's a few who pick KD.
Where is KD in the all time list right now. I mean all the GOAT of generation has been pretty well defined the past couple decades. MJ then Kobe then LeBron.
Has KD pass Hakeem or Duncan or Shaq at this point?


Double standard really.

If LeBron and the Miami Heat beat Kobe and the Lakers two straight Finals in a row, and LeBron took Finals MVP both times, and took Game 3 two consecutive years on the Staples Center Court and actually made Kobe quit in a sweeping effort against the Lakers the 2nd time around... you wouldn't have seen anyone arguing that LeBron hadn't taken the torch from Kobe, and nobody would be saying "The Heat were just the better team" as an excuse for why Kobe's loss "didn't really count".

And had Kobe got his numbers but the Lakers still got swept they'd have said "That's always been Kobe's problem, he gets his, but he doesn't make the players around him better. LeBron does both."

When it comes to LBJ there is always a double standard and a rush from the media to protect him with excuses no other great has gotten.

So the fact Durant has owned the last two Finals, and took LeBron and the Cavs heart in the last Finals in a sweep, the fact they still wanna be on that "Well KD is really the 5th best player in the NBA" nonsense is because of all that.

Far as I'm concerned KD closed the gap between him and LBJ, and you could argue the top 3 any way around, between KD, Anthony Davis and LeBron.

However you'd also have to make the point that KD and Anthony Davis actually do it on both ends, and LeBron no longer does.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:33 am    Post subject: Re: Kevin Durant

MJST wrote:
However you'd also have to make the point that KD and Anthony Davis actually do it on both ends, and LeBron no longer does.


KD got a little buzz on defense early last season....dude was a traffic cone once again after the All Star break.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: Kevin Durant

MJST wrote:

So the fact Durant has owned the last two Finals, and took LeBron and the Cavs heart in the last Finals in a sweep, the fact they still wanna be on that "Well KD is really the 5th best player in the NBA" nonsense is because of all that.
.



I generally see Durant ranked #2 on most lists after Lebron. I don't think I've ever seen him listed as low as #5.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:44 am    Post subject:

KD is #2 to me still.

I still think LBJ does more overall than KD.

Which is why #1/2 should join forces in 2019.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Kevin Durant

MJST wrote:
governator wrote:
Been listening to a lot of 'debate' regarding best player in the league on Sirius NBA channel... most say LeBron but there's a few who pick KD.
Where is KD in the all time list right now. I mean all the GOAT of generation has been pretty well defined the past couple decades. MJ then Kobe then LeBron.
Has KD pass Hakeem or Duncan or Shaq at this point?


Double standard really.

If LeBron and the Miami Heat beat Kobe and the Lakers two straight Finals in a row, and LeBron took Finals MVP both times, and took Game 3 two consecutive years on the Staples Center Court and actually made Kobe quit in a sweeping effort against the Lakers the 2nd time around... you wouldn't have seen anyone arguing that LeBron hadn't taken the torch from Kobe, and nobody would be saying "The Heat were just the better team" as an excuse for why Kobe's loss "didn't really count".

And had Kobe got his numbers but the Lakers still got swept they'd have said "That's always been Kobe's problem, he gets his, but he doesn't make the players around him better. LeBron does both."

When it comes to LBJ there is always a double standard and a rush from the media to protect him with excuses no other great has gotten.

So the fact Durant has owned the last two Finals, and took LeBron and the Cavs heart in the last Finals in a sweep, the fact they still wanna be on that "Well KD is really the 5th best player in the NBA" nonsense is because of all that.

Far as I'm concerned KD closed the gap between him and LBJ, and you could argue the top 3 any way around, between KD, Anthony Davis and LeBron.

However you'd also have to make the point that KD and Anthony Davis actually do it on both ends, and LeBron no longer does.

exactly.

I would never choose Lebron over KD. If we had KD right now instead of lebron, we'd be better off. Look at the problems we are having, will have soon? We can't score. Has someone hit 3 shots in a row yet? This notion that lebron is good at "other" things like chasedown blocks, passing, etc. somehow makes up for and overcomes Durant's deadeye shooting at an unblockable height is really quite insane. It's like preferring to have Rodamn over Pippen.

Also, when they play each other, people might be thinking oh how exciting, lebron vs durant! Lebron will almost never guard Durant. Durant is far more likely to guard Lebron. And don't think it has to do with size or position or something. Lebron will avoid anything that will make him look bad or affect his stats. He will make sure another teammate does the hard stuff so none of those stats will be directly attributed to him. There are these "Lebron vs Durant" duels on youtube, go watch. Is lebron ever guarding Durant, except for a weak side block attempt? Lebron won't guard the best player (unless he is smaller than him), Lebron will not take the tough shots. Durant is far more likely to do all these things. Now that he doesn't have to worry about carrying the offensive load, he is blocking everything and very active on defense.

Lebron is trying to do so much in the Finals....he is trying to grab the boards, block the shots, etc. And still losing because basically the talent on the warriors, and his lack of scoring talent as the main man. Meanwhile, Durant can be invisible most of the game, and at the end, just hit 4-5 cold blooded jumpers, and the game is over. That skill/talent he has to do that is worth FAR more than all that stuff lebron is trying to do. Running around getting all these stats doesn't mean it is helping the team win or that you are very good. You're just a hyper guy running around like a spaz. You don't see Jordan running around like a spaz. Randle did this too. Just all these hyper spazzy plays. When you are the best shooter on the court, you'll just walk up slowly like a cowboy scene and just hit it, no need for all that nonsense.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Kevin Durant

SuperboyReformed wrote:
MJST wrote:
governator wrote:
Been listening to a lot of 'debate' regarding best player in the league on Sirius NBA channel... most say LeBron but there's a few who pick KD.
Where is KD in the all time list right now. I mean all the GOAT of generation has been pretty well defined the past couple decades. MJ then Kobe then LeBron.
Has KD pass Hakeem or Duncan or Shaq at this point?


Double standard really.

If LeBron and the Miami Heat beat Kobe and the Lakers two straight Finals in a row, and LeBron took Finals MVP both times, and took Game 3 two consecutive years on the Staples Center Court and actually made Kobe quit in a sweeping effort against the Lakers the 2nd time around... you wouldn't have seen anyone arguing that LeBron hadn't taken the torch from Kobe, and nobody would be saying "The Heat were just the better team" as an excuse for why Kobe's loss "didn't really count".

And had Kobe got his numbers but the Lakers still got swept they'd have said "That's always been Kobe's problem, he gets his, but he doesn't make the players around him better. LeBron does both."

When it comes to LBJ there is always a double standard and a rush from the media to protect him with excuses no other great has gotten.

So the fact Durant has owned the last two Finals, and took LeBron and the Cavs heart in the last Finals in a sweep, the fact they still wanna be on that "Well KD is really the 5th best player in the NBA" nonsense is because of all that.

Far as I'm concerned KD closed the gap between him and LBJ, and you could argue the top 3 any way around, between KD, Anthony Davis and LeBron.

However you'd also have to make the point that KD and Anthony Davis actually do it on both ends, and LeBron no longer does.

exactly.

I would never choose Lebron over KD. If we had KD right now instead of lebron, we'd be better off. Look at the problems we are having, will have soon? We can't score. Has someone hit 3 shots in a row yet? This notion that lebron is good at "other" things like chasedown blocks, passing, etc. somehow makes up for and overcomes Durant's deadeye shooting at an unblockable height is really quite insane. It's like preferring to have Rodamn over Pippen.

Also, when they play each other, people might be thinking oh how exciting, lebron vs durant! Lebron will almost never guard Durant. Durant is far more likely to guard Lebron. And don't think it has to do with size or position or something. Lebron will avoid anything that will make him look bad or affect his stats. He will make sure another teammate does the hard stuff so none of those stats will be directly attributed to him. There are these "Lebron vs Durant" duels on youtube, go watch. Is lebron ever guarding Durant, except for a weak side block attempt? Lebron won't guard the best player (unless he is smaller than him), Lebron will not take the tough shots. Durant is far more likely to do all these things. Now that he doesn't have to worry about carrying the offensive load, he is blocking everything and very active on defense.

Lebron is trying to do so much in the Finals....he is trying to grab the boards, block the shots, etc. And still losing because basically the talent on the warriors, and his lack of scoring talent as the main man. Meanwhile, Durant can be invisible most of the game, and at the end, just hit 4-5 cold blooded jumpers, and the game is over. That skill/talent he has to do that is worth FAR more than all that stuff lebron is trying to do. Running around getting all these stats doesn't mean it is helping the team win or that you are very good. You're just a hyper guy running around like a spaz. You don't see Jordan running around like a spaz. Randle did this too. Just all these hyper spazzy plays. When you are the best shooter on the court, you'll just walk up slowly like a cowboy scene and just hit it, no need for all that nonsense.



Both Durant and Lebron individually had amazing finals.

Durant put up 29-11-8 on 53-41-96 shooting, with 2.3 blocks and 0.8 steals.

Lebron put up 34-9-10 on 53-33-84 shooting, with 1.0 blocks and 1.3 steals.

I think you can legitimately argue which of them played better. The sweep wasn't because Durant outplayed Lebron, but because the rest of the Warriors outplayed the rest of the Cavs, The rest of the Warriors shot over 50% while the rest of the Cavs shot under 40%, I mean Durant beat out Curry for finals MVP 7-4, which shows how good Curry was.

We can argue whether at this point age has given the advantage to Durant. But in their primes, I think you get more overall from Lebron. But that's not a knock on Durant. These are two of the greatest players in NBA history.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Kevin Durant

activeverb wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
MJST wrote:
governator wrote:
Been listening to a lot of 'debate' regarding best player in the league on Sirius NBA channel... most say LeBron but there's a few who pick KD.
Where is KD in the all time list right now. I mean all the GOAT of generation has been pretty well defined the past couple decades. MJ then Kobe then LeBron.
Has KD pass Hakeem or Duncan or Shaq at this point?


Double standard really.

If LeBron and the Miami Heat beat Kobe and the Lakers two straight Finals in a row, and LeBron took Finals MVP both times, and took Game 3 two consecutive years on the Staples Center Court and actually made Kobe quit in a sweeping effort against the Lakers the 2nd time around... you wouldn't have seen anyone arguing that LeBron hadn't taken the torch from Kobe, and nobody would be saying "The Heat were just the better team" as an excuse for why Kobe's loss "didn't really count".

And had Kobe got his numbers but the Lakers still got swept they'd have said "That's always been Kobe's problem, he gets his, but he doesn't make the players around him better. LeBron does both."

When it comes to LBJ there is always a double standard and a rush from the media to protect him with excuses no other great has gotten.

So the fact Durant has owned the last two Finals, and took LeBron and the Cavs heart in the last Finals in a sweep, the fact they still wanna be on that "Well KD is really the 5th best player in the NBA" nonsense is because of all that.

Far as I'm concerned KD closed the gap between him and LBJ, and you could argue the top 3 any way around, between KD, Anthony Davis and LeBron.

However you'd also have to make the point that KD and Anthony Davis actually do it on both ends, and LeBron no longer does.

exactly.

I would never choose Lebron over KD. If we had KD right now instead of lebron, we'd be better off. Look at the problems we are having, will have soon? We can't score. Has someone hit 3 shots in a row yet? This notion that lebron is good at "other" things like chasedown blocks, passing, etc. somehow makes up for and overcomes Durant's deadeye shooting at an unblockable height is really quite insane. It's like preferring to have Rodamn over Pippen.

Also, when they play each other, people might be thinking oh how exciting, lebron vs durant! Lebron will almost never guard Durant. Durant is far more likely to guard Lebron. And don't think it has to do with size or position or something. Lebron will avoid anything that will make him look bad or affect his stats. He will make sure another teammate does the hard stuff so none of those stats will be directly attributed to him. There are these "Lebron vs Durant" duels on youtube, go watch. Is lebron ever guarding Durant, except for a weak side block attempt? Lebron won't guard the best player (unless he is smaller than him), Lebron will not take the tough shots. Durant is far more likely to do all these things. Now that he doesn't have to worry about carrying the offensive load, he is blocking everything and very active on defense.

Lebron is trying to do so much in the Finals....he is trying to grab the boards, block the shots, etc. And still losing because basically the talent on the warriors, and his lack of scoring talent as the main man. Meanwhile, Durant can be invisible most of the game, and at the end, just hit 4-5 cold blooded jumpers, and the game is over. That skill/talent he has to do that is worth FAR more than all that stuff lebron is trying to do. Running around getting all these stats doesn't mean it is helping the team win or that you are very good. You're just a hyper guy running around like a spaz. You don't see Jordan running around like a spaz. Randle did this too. Just all these hyper spazzy plays. When you are the best shooter on the court, you'll just walk up slowly like a cowboy scene and just hit it, no need for all that nonsense.



Both Durant and Lebron individually had amazing finals.

Durant put up 29-11-8 on 53-41-96 shooting, with 2.3 blocks and 0.8 steals.

Lebron put up 34-9-10 on 53-33-84 shooting, with 1.0 blocks and 1.3 steals.

I think you can legitimately argue which of them played better. The sweep wasn't because Durant outplayed Lebron, but because the rest of the Warriors outplayed the rest of the Cavs, The rest of the Warriors shot over 50% while the rest of the Cavs shot under 40%, I mean Durant beat out Curry for finals MVP 7-4, which shows how good Curry was.

We can argue whether at this point age has given the advantage to Durant. But in their primes, I think you get more overall from Lebron. But that's not a knock on Durant. These are two of the greatest players in NBA history.

you do realize that 30 pts in one game or situation is not == to 30 pts in another situation. The difference Durant gets 30 pts by sleepwalking through most of the quarters and turning it on in the end if its close, which it normally will be. We will see it this year, when one of our guys gets 30 pts, its going to be a really hard fought 30pts compared to whoever gets 30pts on the warriors.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:27 pm    Post subject:

First of all I wouldn’t consider Jordan or Kobe top 2 all time. Right now the best player in the league would be one of KD, AD or Lebron.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:56 pm    Post subject:

If you consider Kobe as the greatest Laker of all time, then he's top 3, behind Kareem and Jordan. But back to the subject of Durant, he's underrated, and the media wants him to leave the Warriors and put himself in a worse situation to 'prove' himself. But the majority of pundits weren't saying "LeBron's got two rings in Miami.. but you know where he should go to really make it mean something? He should go to the Knicks."

They just want Durant no longer as a rival to LeBron, cause they know LeBron is never winning a ring again if Durant and the Warriors are in his way. If Durant gets a 3rd ring and a 3rd Finals MVP in a row, he'll be the first to do so since Shaq, and they have no more legs to stand on.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:25 pm    Post subject:

^
Durant's situation is unique. He joined a team that had won a ring two years before. And then he won two rings with the same group of stars who had succeeded without him.

Because of that, some people will always discount his rings a little. Whether or not that's reasonable is in the eye of the beholder.

I don't think this has anything to do with any other player; as I said, Durant's situation is unique.

I can't think of another superstar who joined a team that were recent champions. The closest would be when Moses Malone joined the 76ers the year after they were in the finals. Because the 76ers hadn't won, Moses was seen as the missing piece. The Warriors really didn't have a missing piece. The simply added another amazing piece to an already amazing team, and they walloped everyone.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:34 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
If you consider Kobe as the greatest Laker of all time, then he's top 3, behind Kareem and Jordan. But back to the subject of Durant, he's underrated, and the media wants him to leave the Warriors and put himself in a worse situation to 'prove' himself. But the majority of pundits weren't saying "LeBron's got two rings in Miami.. but you know where he should go to really make it mean something? He should go to the Knicks."

They just want Durant no longer as a rival to LeBron, cause they know LeBron is never winning a ring again if Durant and the Warriors are in his way. If Durant gets a 3rd ring and a 3rd Finals MVP in a row, he'll be the first to do so since Shaq, and they have no more legs to stand on.

oh yea, right on.

if durant gets it again, in 20 years, people will be wondering why lebron is considered the greatest when this guy durant has more finals wins and mvps. you cant talk too much about stacked teams because lebron had kyrie and klove and ray allen, bosh, wade.

you know what will happen, though? the media will try to get lebron the losing finals mvp, like they tried a couple of times now. OH he's doing so much he could be losing finals mvp, first since jerry west! horses--t. i was going to lose it if they did that. they were talking about it so much.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:45 am    Post subject: Re: Kevin Durant

SuperboyReformed wrote:
activeverb wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
MJST wrote:
governator wrote:
Been listening to a lot of 'debate' regarding best player in the league on Sirius NBA channel... most say LeBron but there's a few who pick KD.
Where is KD in the all time list right now. I mean all the GOAT of generation has been pretty well defined the past couple decades. MJ then Kobe then LeBron.
Has KD pass Hakeem or Duncan or Shaq at this point?


Double standard really.

If LeBron and the Miami Heat beat Kobe and the Lakers two straight Finals in a row, and LeBron took Finals MVP both times, and took Game 3 two consecutive years on the Staples Center Court and actually made Kobe quit in a sweeping effort against the Lakers the 2nd time around... you wouldn't have seen anyone arguing that LeBron hadn't taken the torch from Kobe, and nobody would be saying "The Heat were just the better team" as an excuse for why Kobe's loss "didn't really count".

And had Kobe got his numbers but the Lakers still got swept they'd have said "That's always been Kobe's problem, he gets his, but he doesn't make the players around him better. LeBron does both."

When it comes to LBJ there is always a double standard and a rush from the media to protect him with excuses no other great has gotten.

So the fact Durant has owned the last two Finals, and took LeBron and the Cavs heart in the last Finals in a sweep, the fact they still wanna be on that "Well KD is really the 5th best player in the NBA" nonsense is because of all that.

Far as I'm concerned KD closed the gap between him and LBJ, and you could argue the top 3 any way around, between KD, Anthony Davis and LeBron.

However you'd also have to make the point that KD and Anthony Davis actually do it on both ends, and LeBron no longer does.

exactly.

I would never choose Lebron over KD. If we had KD right now instead of lebron, we'd be better off. Look at the problems we are having, will have soon? We can't score. Has someone hit 3 shots in a row yet? This notion that lebron is good at "other" things like chasedown blocks, passing, etc. somehow makes up for and overcomes Durant's deadeye shooting at an unblockable height is really quite insane. It's like preferring to have Rodamn over Pippen.

Also, when they play each other, people might be thinking oh how exciting, lebron vs durant! Lebron will almost never guard Durant. Durant is far more likely to guard Lebron. And don't think it has to do with size or position or something. Lebron will avoid anything that will make him look bad or affect his stats. He will make sure another teammate does the hard stuff so none of those stats will be directly attributed to him. There are these "Lebron vs Durant" duels on youtube, go watch. Is lebron ever guarding Durant, except for a weak side block attempt? Lebron won't guard the best player (unless he is smaller than him), Lebron will not take the tough shots. Durant is far more likely to do all these things. Now that he doesn't have to worry about carrying the offensive load, he is blocking everything and very active on defense.

Lebron is trying to do so much in the Finals....he is trying to grab the boards, block the shots, etc. And still losing because basically the talent on the warriors, and his lack of scoring talent as the main man. Meanwhile, Durant can be invisible most of the game, and at the end, just hit 4-5 cold blooded jumpers, and the game is over. That skill/talent he has to do that is worth FAR more than all that stuff lebron is trying to do. Running around getting all these stats doesn't mean it is helping the team win or that you are very good. You're just a hyper guy running around like a spaz. You don't see Jordan running around like a spaz. Randle did this too. Just all these hyper spazzy plays. When you are the best shooter on the court, you'll just walk up slowly like a cowboy scene and just hit it, no need for all that nonsense.



Both Durant and Lebron individually had amazing finals.

Durant put up 29-11-8 on 53-41-96 shooting, with 2.3 blocks and 0.8 steals.

Lebron put up 34-9-10 on 53-33-84 shooting, with 1.0 blocks and 1.3 steals.

I think you can legitimately argue which of them played better. The sweep wasn't because Durant outplayed Lebron, but because the rest of the Warriors outplayed the rest of the Cavs, The rest of the Warriors shot over 50% while the rest of the Cavs shot under 40%, I mean Durant beat out Curry for finals MVP 7-4, which shows how good Curry was.

We can argue whether at this point age has given the advantage to Durant. But in their primes, I think you get more overall from Lebron. But that's not a knock on Durant. These are two of the greatest players in NBA history.

you do realize that 30 pts in one game or situation is not == to 30 pts in another situation. The difference Durant gets 30 pts by sleepwalking through most of the quarters and turning it on in the end if its close, which it normally will be. We will see it this year, when one of our guys gets 30 pts, its going to be a really hard fought 30pts compared to whoever gets 30pts on the warriors.


Switch KD and LBJ and the results are the same and I think LBJ + Steph/Klay/Dray wins by even bigger margins (imagine LBJ's passing with the Splash Bros).

How many teams have 4 all NBA players?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:45 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
^
Durant's situation is unique. He joined a team that had won a ring two years before. And then he won two rings with the same group of stars who had succeeded without him.

Because of that, some people will always discount his rings a little. Whether or not that's reasonable is in the eye of the beholder.

I don't think this has anything to do with any other player; as I said, Durant's situation is unique.

I can't think of another superstar who joined a team that were recent champions. The closest would be when Moses Malone joined the 76ers the year after they were in the finals. Because the 76ers hadn't won, Moses was seen as the missing piece. The Warriors really didn't have a missing piece. The simply added another amazing piece to an already amazing team, and they walloped everyone.


But would they have continued to without him, is the question.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:46 am    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
MJST wrote:
If you consider Kobe as the greatest Laker of all time, then he's top 3, behind Kareem and Jordan. But back to the subject of Durant, he's underrated, and the media wants him to leave the Warriors and put himself in a worse situation to 'prove' himself. But the majority of pundits weren't saying "LeBron's got two rings in Miami.. but you know where he should go to really make it mean something? He should go to the Knicks."

They just want Durant no longer as a rival to LeBron, cause they know LeBron is never winning a ring again if Durant and the Warriors are in his way. If Durant gets a 3rd ring and a 3rd Finals MVP in a row, he'll be the first to do so since Shaq, and they have no more legs to stand on.

oh yea, right on.

if durant gets it again, in 20 years, people will be wondering why lebron is considered the greatest when this guy durant has more finals wins and mvps. you cant talk too much about stacked teams because lebron had kyrie and klove and ray allen, bosh, wade.

you know what will happen, though? the media will try to get lebron the losing finals mvp, like they tried a couple of times now. OH he's doing so much he could be losing finals mvp, first since jerry west! horses--t. i was going to lose it if they did that. they were talking about it so much.


My goodness. The LBJ hate is so thick on you that you can't be objective about this.

How would you have reacted if LBJ, upon losing to the Warriors the first time joined up with them?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:34 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
MJST wrote:
If you consider Kobe as the greatest Laker of all time, then he's top 3, behind Kareem and Jordan. But back to the subject of Durant, he's underrated, and the media wants him to leave the Warriors and put himself in a worse situation to 'prove' himself. But the majority of pundits weren't saying "LeBron's got two rings in Miami.. but you know where he should go to really make it mean something? He should go to the Knicks."

They just want Durant no longer as a rival to LeBron, cause they know LeBron is never winning a ring again if Durant and the Warriors are in his way. If Durant gets a 3rd ring and a 3rd Finals MVP in a row, he'll be the first to do so since Shaq, and they have no more legs to stand on.

oh yea, right on.

if durant gets it again, in 20 years, people will be wondering why lebron is considered the greatest when this guy durant has more finals wins and mvps. you cant talk too much about stacked teams because lebron had kyrie and klove and ray allen, bosh, wade.

you know what will happen, though? the media will try to get lebron the losing finals mvp, like they tried a couple of times now. OH he's doing so much he could be losing finals mvp, first since jerry west! horses--t. i was going to lose it if they did that. they were talking about it so much.


My goodness. The LBJ hate is so thick on you that you can't be objective about this.

How would you have reacted if LBJ, upon losing to the Warriors the first time joined up with them?

i wouldn't be surprised. He has a history of using the NBA to benefit himself personally. Just like he is using the Lakers to grab the biggest NBA market in the league at their most vulnerable point. Both Durant and LBJ made horse---t moves in all this stuff, really weak sauce ring-chasing stuff relative to all the previous greats. I'm not saying they're wrong in doing it, but they definitely don't get bonus points for dealing or overcoming adversity and stuff like that. THe idea of giving lebron losing finals mvp after ring chasing is ridiculous. stuff like that should be for pistol pete types, who suffer bad teams for years and put up huge numbers without help. Lebron has more help than anyone ever has, even if everyone is injured, he gets a ton of help from the refs. I hope we get to enjoy that for the next 4 years.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:46 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
THe idea of giving lebron losing finals mvp after ring chasing is ridiculous. stuff like that should be for pistol pete types, who suffer bad teams for years and put up huge numbers without help. Lebron has more help than anyone ever has, even if everyone is injured, he gets a ton of help from the refs. I hope we get to enjoy that for the next 4 years.


Case closed. You're really not being objective about this. Like when BOTH Kyrie and Love were injured in the Finals?

Or that he actually beat the Warriors once?

His team vs. the Warriors (with KD) is so vastly under-equipped it's not even funny.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:00 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
THe idea of giving lebron losing finals mvp after ring chasing is ridiculous. stuff like that should be for pistol pete types, who suffer bad teams for years and put up huge numbers without help. Lebron has more help than anyone ever has, even if everyone is injured, he gets a ton of help from the refs. I hope we get to enjoy that for the next 4 years.


Case closed. You're really not being objective about this. Like when BOTH Kyrie and Love were injured in the Finals?

Or that he actually beat the Warriors once?

His team vs. the Warriors (with KD) is so vastly under-equipped it's not even funny.


They give LeBron "full credit" for beating the Warriors, and they neglect Steph being injured, Bogut getting hurt, and Draymond getting suspended.

But they do not miss an opportunity to talk about what LeBron didn't have the first time around.

Here's how it is

LeBron didn't have Love and had Kyrie for game 1 and then not after that
The Warriors won in 6

Steph was injured, Bogut got hurt, and Draymond got Suspended
The Cavs won in 7.

The next time around both teams were healthy

It was Steph, Klay and Durant vs Kyrie, Love and LeBron.

The Warriors won in 5. Fair and Square, no injuries, no excuses.

It's because of LeBron that Kyrie wanted out on the Cavs after that.

They made it to the Finals anyway, and faced up against the Warriors

This time without Kyrie, the Warriors swept them.


And ONCE AGAIN, you can make the argument that no matter how much people try to argue "Yeah but Durant with to a blah blah team."

You'd have a hard time arguing that if you replace Durant with Harriron Barnes again, that they repeat as Champions.

Steph hasn't returned to the supernova form he had that 73-9 season since his injury, and Draymond hasn't been a near 40% three point shooter since that point either, both of those things would need to happen again to quantify.

But they haven't, and it's hard to argue that the Warriors are repeat Champions right now without Durant being there, and THAT should be the factor.


Do the Warriors win back to back titles with Barnes there instead of Durant these past few seasons? No? Then case closed.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:58 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
THe idea of giving lebron losing finals mvp after ring chasing is ridiculous. stuff like that should be for pistol pete types, who suffer bad teams for years and put up huge numbers without help. Lebron has more help than anyone ever has, even if everyone is injured, he gets a ton of help from the refs. I hope we get to enjoy that for the next 4 years.


Case closed. You're really not being objective about this. Like when BOTH Kyrie and Love were injured in the Finals?

Or that he actually beat the Warriors once?

His team vs. the Warriors (with KD) is so vastly under-equipped it's not even funny.


They give LeBron "full credit" for beating the Warriors, and they neglect Steph being injured, Bogut getting hurt, and Draymond getting suspended.

But they do not miss an opportunity to talk about what LeBron didn't have the first time around.

Here's how it is

LeBron didn't have Love and had Kyrie for game 1 and then not after that
The Warriors won in 6

Steph was injured, Bogut got hurt, and Draymond got Suspended
The Cavs won in 7.

The next time around both teams were healthy

It was Steph, Klay and Durant vs Kyrie, Love and LeBron.

The Warriors won in 5. Fair and Square, no injuries, no excuses.

It's because of LeBron that Kyrie wanted out on the Cavs after that.

They made it to the Finals anyway, and faced up against the Warriors

This time without Kyrie, the Warriors swept them.


And ONCE AGAIN, you can make the argument that no matter how much people try to argue "Yeah but Durant with to a blah blah team."

You'd have a hard time arguing that if you replace Durant with Harriron Barnes again, that they repeat as Champions.

Steph hasn't returned to the supernova form he had that 73-9 season since his injury, and Draymond hasn't been a near 40% three point shooter since that point either, both of those things would need to happen again to quantify.

But they haven't, and it's hard to argue that the Warriors are repeat Champions right now without Durant being there, and THAT should be the factor.


Do the Warriors win back to back titles with Barnes there instead of Durant these past few seasons? No? Then case closed.

how do i give a high five?! Very nicely done.

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