LakersGround.net :: View topic - Advanced shooting percentages

Advanced shooting percentages

LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author

Message

NotHype
Starting Rotation

Joined: 10 Jul 2018
Posts: 376

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:05 pm Post subject: Advanced shooting percentages

I looked up some of our best shooters’ open 3pt% and wide open 3pt% in comparison with some of the best shooters in the league from last season. Do you find these numbers interesting or irrelevant? It seems that all the elite shooters hit over 45% on wide open 3pt attempts Josh Hart Open 3pt% 39.3 Wide open 3pt% 41.0 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope Open 3pt% 36.1 Wide open 3pt% 43.9 Brandon Ingram Open 3pt% 37.5 Wide open 3pt% 40.4 Kyle Kuzma Open 3pt% 36.5 Wide open 3pt% 39.0 LeBron James Open 3pt% 34.1 Wide open 3pt% 42.3 Kevin Durant Open 3pt% 37.4 Wide open 3pt% 56.8 Paul George Open 3pt% 37.7 Wide open 3pt% 47.1 Jayson Tatum Open 3pt% 40.8 Wide open 3pt% 46.6 Klay Thompson Open 3pt% 43.1 Wide open 3pt% 50.5 Steph Curry Open 3pt% 43.2 Wide open 3pt% 47.5 Kyle Korver Open 3pt% 45.1 Wide open 3pt% 49.2 Redick shot 49% wide open FWIW.

slavavov
Star Player

Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 8352
Location: Santa Monica

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:48 pm Post subject:

We have good 3 point shooters, we just don't have any great ones, and we may only need one great one. Hopefully Svi will become that. Interestingly, none of the Rockets' rotation players shot 40% from downtown last season. _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers

Sentient Meat
Franchise Player

Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:04 pm Post subject:

I think Svi will be our elite wide open three shooter. I just hope they give him the chance.

LakerSD
Franchise Player

Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23789

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:10 pm Post subject:

slavavov wrote:

We have good 3 point shooters, we just don't have any great ones, and we may only need one great one. Hopefully Svi will become that.

Interestingly, none of the Rockets' rotation players shot 40% from downtown last season.

To be fair, the rockets take a TON of 3s.

Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number

Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:14 pm Post subject:

slavavov wrote:

The Rockets thrive on volume of threes more than accuracy. Which I think would be a smarter strategy for this team rather than the multiple long two point jumpers they've taken in the first two games.
_________________
Under New Management

NotHype
Starting Rotation

Joined: 10 Jul 2018
Posts: 376

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:33 pm Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

slavavov wrote:

That’s what I say.... I cringe when long 2s are taken in 2018.

Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number

Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Advanced shooting percentages

NotHype wrote:

Do you find these numbers interesting or irrelevant?

Interesting, if only because it shows how much some of those other guys will affect defenses. I wouldn't have expected any of our guys to be elite, but this shows how much value we would get if we developed or picked up a guy like that.

slavavov
Star Player

Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 8352
Location: Santa Monica

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:06 pm Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

slavavov wrote:

I agree with this, although I don't want us jacking up that many 3s in transition, especially if the guy shooting it isn't open or if no one else is downcourt for an offensive rebound.
_________________
Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers

NotHype
Starting Rotation

Joined: 10 Jul 2018
Posts: 376

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: Advanced shooting percentages

Aeneas Hunter wrote:

NotHype wrote:

Do you find these numbers interesting or irrelevant?

Would be nice huh?

I only bothered looking this up because someone told me Hart is a consistent 3pt shooter... I believe he is a solid/capable 3pt shooter but not elite. We don’t have that.

Not sure what we can do to acquire that lethal sharpshooter... it would definitely make a big difference on this team.

NotHype
Starting Rotation

Joined: 10 Jul 2018
Posts: 376

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:14 pm Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:

I think Svi will be our elite wide open three shooter.

I just hope they give him the chance.

Hoping for the best with Svi but not going to lie he hasn’t looked very good out there in these 2 preseason games

greenfrog
Retired Number

Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:29 pm Post subject:

NotHype wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

I think Svi will be our elite wide open three shooter.

I just hope they give him the chance.

Hoping for the best with Svi but not going to lie he hasn’t looked very good out there in these 2 preseason games

Didn't see much of last night's game, but is the offense creating open looks for him? In the first game the ball movement when he was on the floor was abysmal.

activeverb
Retired Number

Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:02 pm Post subject:

Fun fact: Guess who led the league in wide open 3 point shooting in 16-17? None other than Pau Gasol.

BynumForThree
Star Player

Joined: 27 Feb 2016
Posts: 1254

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:21 pm Post subject:

activeverb wrote:

Fun fact: Guess who led the league in wide open 3 point shooting in 16-17?

None other than Pau Gasol.

Remember when he complained Pringles wasn't playing him more in the post?

D'Antoni was playing chess while the rest of the league was playing checkers.
_________________
If Brandon Knight were to come out, I would take him number 1 in the draft. - Magic Johnson Mar 27, 2011

For all of you out there questioning Jimmer Fredette of BYU, he is the real deal. - Magic Johnson Mar 20, 2011

SuperboyReformed
Star Player

Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:11 pm Post subject:

BynumForThree wrote:

activeverb wrote:

Fun fact: Guess who led the league in wide open 3 point shooting in 16-17?

None other than Pau Gasol.

Remember when he complained Pringles wasn't playing him more in the post?

D'Antoni was playing chess while the rest of the league was playing checkers.

this is really funny.

kobeandgary
Star Player

Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 6339
Location: Virginia

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:08 am Post subject:

Durant is a god, 57% sheesh that's amazing.

NotHype
Starting Rotation

Joined: 10 Jul 2018
Posts: 376

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:21 pm Post subject:

kobeandgary wrote:

Durant is a god, 57% sheesh that's amazing.

Same thing I said

SuperboyReformed
Star Player

Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:36 pm Post subject:

slavavov wrote:

i think you are being far too optimistic. Our current shooters might not even be average compared to the league currently. Take a look at our FT percentages, most (if not all) great 3pt shooters are also great FT shooters. We are probably the worst in the league at FT, or very close. THe warriors might be tops.

All the Lakers right now that people think are good 3pt shooters, are not really.

Hart? Not great, all he has shown is streaky good. He might be below average if you look at other teams.
Kuz? Kuz started out hot last year, and that reputation has followed him. Overall, he might still be below average.
Lebron. Below average for sure. He's gotten better at hitting the wide open ones, but he has never been the guy relied upon for that on his team. He's always had terrific shooters like Klove, kyrie, ray allen, etc.
Svi? this guy has shown nothing. So much hype. It sounds like the team might believe in him based on some stuff they've seen (that we haven't). But for me, i have to see it to believe it.
KCP? i like KCP, but you guys dont, and his preseason has sucked. so what? all veterans suck in preseason.
Beasly. Beasly is good, he will be good during RS I think.

The rockets have a fatal flaw in the way harden plays. harden's success depends on the refs letting him travel and jump into people, and flop, etc. It all works great until he meets the warriors in a series, and then some of those calls go away and all of a sudden they clank 30 threes in a row. That's the risk in relying on gimmicks. He's good enough not to do those things, but that's almost all he does. WHat a waste of really high level talent. At least Lebron doesn't have that kind of talent, so its reasonable why he plays that way. Or westbrook. Harden is a clown.

My prediction is that we are going to try to win games with our novel style of defense and rebounding, etc. BUt we will lose our games with people simply outshooting us. ALmost every team relative to us has the talent to just get hot from outside for a few minutes, and that will be enough to beat us. It will be like that one game vs POrtland last year...we will hang in there, keeping it close with our defense and playmaking, etc. Then Lillard will go off for 2 minutes and hit 4 threes, and we dont have the offensive firepower to outscore a team with a 20-8 run or so.

remember how the shaq/kobe lakers had a reputation (especially in 2004) of just sleepwalking through a game, and then turning it on for the last few minutes (warriors do that now too)? we don't have that. And almost every team has that more than we do. The way to beat teams like that is the way the 04 pistons beat us...cheating, fouling, refs totally on their side, etc. Those games were brutal. I also do not think the NBA is at all interested in seeing a team like the 04 pistons win in this era.

Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number

Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:33 pm Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:

All the Lakers right now that people think are good 3pt shooters, are not really.

Hart? Not great, all he has shown is streaky good. He might be below average if you look at other teams.
Kuz? Kuz started out hot last year, and that reputation has followed him. Overall, he might still be below average.
Lebron. Below average for sure. He's gotten better at hitting the wide open ones, but he has never been the guy relied upon for that on his team. He's always had terrific shooters like Klove, kyrie, ray allen, etc.
Svi? this guy has shown nothing. So much hype. It sounds like the team might believe in him based on some stuff they've seen (that we haven't). But for me, i have to see it to believe it.
KCP? i like KCP, but you guys dont, and his preseason has sucked. so what? all veterans suck in preseason.
Beasly. Beasly is good, he will be good during RS I think.

I generally agree with this. OP’s stats are a reminder that there is a big difference between guys who are decent shooters and Shooters. A Shooter is someone who commands special attention from the defense because they can kill you from distance. We have some decent shooters, but no Shooters.

I assess Hart as a decent all-around guard who will be a depth asset to a good team and a quality starter for an average team. Svi is a project. I have no idea what he will turn out to be. Casey P. strikes me as an average NBA guard. That’s not a knock, really, because you have to be pretty decent to be an average guard in the NBA. Beasley has spent years enticing people with flashes of quality. It would be great if he finally put it together this year, but I’m not expecting more than flashes.

I have been a skeptic of Kuzma, but I don’t express my opinions often because I don’t want to be one of those posters who constantly rag on some player. I am trying to keep an open mind because there are some sage posters who see something that I don’t. I think some people get to the point where they root against a player on our team. I don’t want to be that guy.

And yes, Lebron is not a Shooter. His jump shot has never really been his strength.

SuperboyReformed
Star Player

Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:41 pm Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:

SuperboyReformed wrote:

exactly.
look at lillard last year in the playoffs, who you know i think is curry level type shooter. What the pelicans did is have 3-4 guys constantly defending him, whether on rotations, double teams, etc. just constant attention, and at the risk of leaving other guys open. They won easily like this, lillard has no help and hes short. Durant has boat loads of help, he doesn't have to dribble and fight all these defenders to get an open look. Sometimes, like we've seen in the finals, he can just shoot it anyway because hes so tall. just jump and shoot., Curry cant do this, lillard can do it more but not like durant. And then, on top of that, durant's teammates are all like him almost, great 3pt shooters (klay, curry). so the chances of him being "wide open" as defined by that stat is far more likely. And that stat is in terms of horizontal distance. once you factor in the height and arm length, durant's "wide open" is probably 2-3 FEET more open than curry or lillard.

Teams don't give lebron this treatment. They just stick one guy on him like any other player. They will help on drives, but not out on the perimeter too much. He's lost two finals with the guy guarding him winning MVP because people are so amazed at how well they guarded him. But they shouldn't be so shocked, he's easy to guard unless the refs cheat. Remember the all star game where kobe blocked him twice? SO easy. And it wasn't like kobe was on him the whole game. that was just a couple of minutes, and in those minutes he basically was blocked every posession kobe was on him and really struggled moving the ball, etc. THe entire time. Early in his career, they would dare him to shoot in the Finals. the finals! and it would work. THat's the ROndo treatment the lakers did in the finals. THat's a sign of a bad shooter.

anyway...i say all this too much. the good thing is we have lbj and ive already seen him get away with a few of his calls, which is nice to see in the purple and gold for once. that's where my hope or optimism lies. not in this fantasy that we have these great shooters on this team.

edit: i should say "purple and yellow" ffs

Last edited by SuperboyReformed on Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number

Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:44 pm Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:

SuperboyReformed wrote:

_________________
Under New Management

NotHype
Starting Rotation

Joined: 10 Jul 2018
Posts: 376

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:28 pm Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:

SuperboyReformed wrote:

exactly.
look at lillard last year in the playoffs, who you know i think is curry level type shooter

Lillard’s contested 3pt% is higher than Curry’s (2-4 feet), 34.2% compared to 31.5%. Curry has him beat by a good amount in all other categories- very tight%, open and wide open

Curry’s very tight 3pt% is actually ridiculously high. 36.4% with 0-2 feet of space.

For comparison Thompson’s very tight 3pt% is 16.7 and Durant’s is 33.3%

Open and wide open accounts for many more attempts though. Which is why I initially went by that.

DShotMaker1824
Star Player

Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 8769

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:07 pm Post subject:

So never leave KD wide open ever. But then again, at his height, he's always wide open. _________________ "Through the legs to the left, through the legs to the right, we don't run them Laker plays, we just Kobe fadeaway..."

Display posts from previous:

LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge

All times are GMT - 8 Hours

Page 1 of 1

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.

We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.