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DrDent
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:40 pm    Post subject:

greek laker wrote:
I didnt know where to post this. It ll be interesting to find out who
originally thought the plan with the towers in the paint in contradiction
to the modern reigning opinion that this league belongs to small,quick
guards who shoot 3pointers in a high volume.I dont know if it was a plan
or simple luck but it changes the perspective of the game for sure.


I’m so glad you brought this up. Let’s really look at this.

Statistically speaking basically everyone and their mom loves this go wild with 3s and get a bunch of similar sized dudes who can switch or if you can’t try to go 3 and d as much as you can everywhere and have “positionless” basketball. Suns try this. Mavs. Kings. Keep going there’s tons more. Inevitably you do win games here and there simply if you get hot. But championship caliber?

Let’s remove that Durant warrior team from this equation. That was an outlier, no one will have anything like that in a starting 5 anytime soon. So take them out of the equation and you have a warrior team sans durant challenged by...Lebron and kyrie (love really in background). The other team that challenged the epitome of the 3 ball team: KL led raptors, a team built much more traditionally with size etc

Only team I can’t really explain is Houston. They live by the 3 and came close to even knocking off the Durant warriors. They added some additional toughness, d, and still loved iso ball tho with harden.

And here we have the Lakers. They have guys who can hit 3s but are much more traditional built with size up front and not requiring all 5 guys on floor be 3 shooters. They are moving back more towards balance (eg the big man is important, and one of our bigs is an upgrade to rest of you 3 guys as he can play all over) and dominating so far while doing it.
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LaLaLakeShow
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:48 pm    Post subject:

DrDent wrote:
greek laker wrote:
I didnt know where to post this. It ll be interesting to find out who
originally thought the plan with the towers in the paint in contradiction
to the modern reigning opinion that this league belongs to small,quick
guards who shoot 3pointers in a high volume.I dont know if it was a plan
or simple luck but it changes the perspective of the game for sure.


I’m so glad you brought this up. Let’s really look at this.

Statistically speaking basically everyone and their mom loves this go wild with 3s and get a bunch of similar sized dudes who can switch or if you can’t try to go 3 and d as much as you can everywhere and have “positionless” basketball. Suns try this. Mavs. Kings. Keep going there’s tons more. Inevitably you do win games here and there simply if you get hot. But championship caliber?

Let’s remove that Durant warrior team from this equation. That was an outlier, no one will have anything like that in a starting 5 anytime soon. So take them out of the equation and you have a warrior team sans durant challenged by...Lebron and kyrie (love really in background). The other team that challenged the epitome of the 3 ball team: KL led raptors, a team built much more traditionally with size etc

Only team I can’t really explain is Houston. They live by the 3 and came close to even knocking off the Durant warriors. They added some additional toughness, d, and still loved iso ball tho with harden.

And here we have the Lakers. They have guys who can hit 3s but are much more traditional built with size up front and not requiring all 5 guys on floor be 3 shooters. They are moving back more towards balance (eg the big man is important, and one of our bigs is an upgrade to rest of you 3 guys as he can play all over) and dominating so far while doing it.


You mean actual basketball?
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LaLaLakeShow
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:49 pm    Post subject:

LAII wrote:
DrDent wrote:
Some odd stats as of today:

1. Lakers losses they gave up 112, 113, and then 114 points. In that order.
2. Davis has led the Lakers the most times in scoring.
3. When Lebron has led the Lakers in scoring, they have yet to lose.
4. Danny Green is the only other player to lead the Lakers in scoring.
5. Dwight Howard has led the team in rebounding 5 times.
6. Lakers lost twice when Lebron had less than 10 assists.
7. Lakers have held a team under 100 points 7 times. Of those 7 times held a team under 90 points twice. They are undefeated when they've held a team under 100 points.
8. Both Davis and Lebron have scored 30+ five teams this season. Although Davis is the only one to have reached 40 or more.
9. Lowest offensive output this year: 95 points. Happened twice.
10. Most points scored: Tonight versus Blazers with 136.


This Lakers team is going to be historically great. I can just feel it. It's time to stop hedging like a dog that's been beat and just embrace it. It wouldn't shock me if they went undefeated the rest of December. They are that good. The only thing standing between them and a Championship is health and there is nothing you can do about that.


Not a fan of counting chickens before they hatch.
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epak
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:49 pm    Post subject:

Frank Vogel ranked his value in shots in the preseason:

1. Layup
2. Corner 3

If their #1 value is at the rim, it would make sense to go with guys who can get buckets there.
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defense
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:21 am    Post subject:

We are approaching 50% from 2 point range. we are built to destroy teams in the paint. Then again we are a top 10 3 point shooting team too.

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moonriver24
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:10 am    Post subject:

What is the average height of our starters?
Bron, Davis and McGee look like 7 footers when they are together.
The height alone can be intimidating.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:12 am    Post subject:

defense wrote:
We are approaching 50% from 2 point range. we are built to destroy teams in the paint. Then again we are a top 10 3 point shooting team too.



Pretty sure we are well above 50% from 2pt range since usually only the bottom teams are the ones at that mark.
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durden-tyler
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:22 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
defense wrote:
We are approaching 50% from 2 point range. we are built to destroy teams in the paint. Then again we are a top 10 3 point shooting team too.



Pretty sure we are well above 50% from 2pt range since usually only the bottom teams are the ones at that mark.


We are number 4 in the league at 55.1%.
Maybe defense was thinking of another stat... I think it's FG%, we're number 1 at 49%, which is elite...
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lar9149
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:23 am    Post subject:

LaLaLakeShow wrote:
DrDent wrote:
greek laker wrote:
I didnt know where to post this. It ll be interesting to find out who
originally thought the plan with the towers in the paint in contradiction
to the modern reigning opinion that this league belongs to small,quick
guards who shoot 3pointers in a high volume.I dont know if it was a plan
or simple luck but it changes the perspective of the game for sure.


I’m so glad you brought this up. Let’s really look at this.

Statistically speaking basically everyone and their mom loves this go wild with 3s and get a bunch of similar sized dudes who can switch or if you can’t try to go 3 and d as much as you can everywhere and have “positionless” basketball. Suns try this. Mavs. Kings. Keep going there’s tons more. Inevitably you do win games here and there simply if you get hot. But championship caliber?

Let’s remove that Durant warrior team from this equation. That was an outlier, no one will have anything like that in a starting 5 anytime soon. So take them out of the equation and you have a warrior team sans durant challenged by...Lebron and kyrie (love really in background). The other team that challenged the epitome of the 3 ball team: KL led raptors, a team built much more traditionally with size etc

Only team I can’t really explain is Houston. They live by the 3 and came close to even knocking off the Durant warriors. They added some additional toughness, d, and still loved iso ball tho with harden.

And here we have the Lakers. They have guys who can hit 3s but are much more traditional built with size up front and not requiring all 5 guys on floor be 3 shooters. They are moving back more towards balance (eg the big man is important, and one of our bigs is an upgrade to rest of you 3 guys as he can play all over) and dominating so far while doing it.


You mean actual basketball?


You know there is actually analytical logic to using the 3 ball as a main stray.

Say a guy he is a below average 3 point shooter at 33%..for simplicity, that is 1 point per 3 point attempt

Compare that to an above average 2 point shooter at 50%..that is also 1 point per attempt. But with 2 point shoots there is risk of having the ball stolen or stripped.

So a below average 3 point shooter can be just as efficient as an above average 2 point shooter b/c a 3 point shoot is worth 50% more than a 2 point shoot.

So this is the reason why I think some teams have gone with the 3 point shooting philosphy. Plus, the idea of using size and length, will there just aren't a lot of big men like AD, Dwight, and Mcgee around. At least not enough for many teams to utilize. The Lakers happen to have 3 of them. But there are plenty of small guards around..and they can be trained to be great 3 point shooters. Guys like AD are "freaks" of nature..you can't train that so easily or perhaps not at all.

So using size is a great strategy because you can just overpower opponents. But it is just not available to all..the Lakers with their branding power, seem to be one of the few teams that can do this and it seems to be their philosphy..Magic the 6'10" point guard, the 2009-2012 team of Odom/Brynum/Gasol and the 2000s of Shaq..enough said.


Last edited by lar9149 on Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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durden-tyler
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:26 am    Post subject:

24 GAMES

OFFRTG : 112.9 (4)
DEFRTG : 103.5 (5)
NETRTG : +9.4 (2)
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:27 am    Post subject:

^ Correct. It all depends on your personnel.

Both strategies can work and be effective, but not if you don’t have the personnel to do it.

You don’t try and play bully ball without a Shaq on your team, for instance.
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lar9149
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:53 am    Post subject:

durden-tyler wrote:
24 GAMES

OFFRTG : 112.9 (4)
DEFRTG : 103.5 (5)
NETRTG : +9.4 (2)


I believe the Lakes are still the only team with top 5 in both categories offense and defense
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danzag
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:31 am    Post subject:

durden-tyler wrote:
24 GAMES

OFFRTG : 112.9 (4)
DEFRTG : 103.5 (5)
NETRTG : +9.4 (2)


(bleep) damn good if you ask me
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durden-tyler
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:24 pm    Post subject:

lar9149 wrote:
durden-tyler wrote:
24 GAMES

OFFRTG : 112.9 (4)
DEFRTG : 103.5 (5)
NETRTG : +9.4 (2)


I believe the Lakes are still the only team with top 5 in both categories offense and defense


I'd like to but the Bucks are 1 and 2 in these categories, and of course number one in NETRTG...
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lar9149
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:51 pm    Post subject:

durden-tyler wrote:
lar9149 wrote:
durden-tyler wrote:
24 GAMES

OFFRTG : 112.9 (4)
DEFRTG : 103.5 (5)
NETRTG : +9.4 (2)


I believe the Lakes are still the only team with top 5 in both categories offense and defense


I'd like to but the Bucks are 1 and 2 in these categories, and of course number one in NETRTG...


Dam those guys the Lakers need to beat them so can show them whose boss
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Don Draper
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:01 pm    Post subject:

DrDent wrote:
greek laker wrote:
I didnt know where to post this. It ll be interesting to find out who
originally thought the plan with the towers in the paint in contradiction
to the modern reigning opinion that this league belongs to small,quick
guards who shoot 3pointers in a high volume.I dont know if it was a plan
or simple luck but it changes the perspective of the game for sure.


I’m so glad you brought this up. Let’s really look at this.

Statistically speaking basically everyone and their mom loves this go wild with 3s and get a bunch of similar sized dudes who can switch or if you can’t try to go 3 and d as much as you can everywhere and have “positionless” basketball. Suns try this. Mavs. Kings. Keep going there’s tons more. Inevitably you do win games here and there simply if you get hot. But championship caliber?

Let’s remove that Durant warrior team from this equation. That was an outlier, no one will have anything like that in a starting 5 anytime soon. So take them out of the equation and you have a warrior team sans durant challenged by...Lebron and kyrie (love really in background). The other team that challenged the epitome of the 3 ball team: KL led raptors, a team built much more traditionally with size etc

Only team I can’t really explain is Houston. They live by the 3 and came close to even knocking off the Durant warriors. They added some additional toughness, d, and still loved iso ball tho with harden.

And here we have the Lakers. They have guys who can hit 3s but are much more traditional built with size up front and not requiring all 5 guys on floor be 3 shooters. They are moving back more towards balance (eg the big man is important, and one of our bigs is an upgrade to rest of you 3 guys as he can play all over) and dominating so far while doing it.


I don't think we can assume things about this Lakers team and what it says about the effectiveness of a certain style any more than we could say that for those Durant Warriors teams. LeBron/AD is arguably a half tier above Durant/Curry as a duo (since Curry is at best an average defender), and outside of not having a Klay Thompson type our team is just as good if not better in terms of role players.
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governator
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:07 pm    Post subject:

lar9149 wrote:
durden-tyler wrote:
lar9149 wrote:
durden-tyler wrote:
24 GAMES

OFFRTG : 112.9 (4)
DEFRTG : 103.5 (5)
NETRTG : +9.4 (2)


I believe the Lakes are still the only team with top 5 in both categories offense and defense


I'd like to but the Bucks are 1 and 2 in these categories, and of course number one in NETRTG...


Dam those guys the Lakers need to beat them so can show them whose boss


Very few dudes can matchup with Giannis physically, AD can
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epak
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:09 pm    Post subject:

16-0: Against under .500 teams
5-3: Against over over .500 teams

5 Wins: Jazz, Nuggets, Heat, Mavs, Jazz
3 Losses: Mavs, Raptors, Clippers
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DrDent
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:33 pm    Post subject:

lar9149 wrote:
LaLaLakeShow wrote:
DrDent wrote:
greek laker wrote:
I didnt know where to post this. It ll be interesting to find out who
originally thought the plan with the towers in the paint in contradiction
to the modern reigning opinion that this league belongs to small,quick
guards who shoot 3pointers in a high volume.I dont know if it was a plan
or simple luck but it changes the perspective of the game for sure.


I’m so glad you brought this up. Let’s really look at this.

Statistically speaking basically everyone and their mom loves this go wild with 3s and get a bunch of similar sized dudes who can switch or if you can’t try to go 3 and d as much as you can everywhere and have “positionless” basketball. Suns try this. Mavs. Kings. Keep going there’s tons more. Inevitably you do win games here and there simply if you get hot. But championship caliber?

Let’s remove that Durant warrior team from this equation. That was an outlier, no one will have anything like that in a starting 5 anytime soon. So take them out of the equation and you have a warrior team sans durant challenged by...Lebron and kyrie (love really in background). The other team that challenged the epitome of the 3 ball team: KL led raptors, a team built much more traditionally with size etc

Only team I can’t really explain is Houston. They live by the 3 and came close to even knocking off the Durant warriors. They added some additional toughness, d, and still loved iso ball tho with harden.

And here we have the Lakers. They have guys who can hit 3s but are much more traditional built with size up front and not requiring all 5 guys on floor be 3 shooters. They are moving back more towards balance (eg the big man is important, and one of our bigs is an upgrade to rest of you 3 guys as he can play all over) and dominating so far while doing it.


You mean actual basketball?


You know there is actually analytical logic to using the 3 ball as a main stray.

Say a guy he is a below average 3 point shooter at 33%..for simplicity, that is 1 point per 3 point attempt

Compare that to an above average 2 point shooter at 50%..that is also 1 point per attempt. But with 2 point shoots there is risk of having the ball stolen or stripped.

So a below average 3 point shooter can be just as efficient as an above average 2 point shooter b/c a 3 point shoot is worth 50% more than a 2 point shoot.

So this is the reason why I think some teams have gone with the 3 point shooting philosphy. Plus, the idea of using size and length, will there just aren't a lot of big men like AD, Dwight, and Mcgee around. At least not enough for many teams to utilize. The Lakers happen to have 3 of them. But there are plenty of small guards around..and they can be trained to be great 3 point shooters. Guys like AD are "freaks" of nature..you can't train that so easily or perhaps not at all.

So using size is a great strategy because you can just overpower opponents. But it is just not available to all..the Lakers with their branding power, seem to be one of the few teams that can do this and it seems to be their philosphy..Magic the 6'10" point guard, the 2009-2012 team of Odom/Brynum/Gasol and the 2000s of Shaq..enough said.


Good post👍 Also this AM I realized: Lakers know how to build around a talented big man. Just in their DNA. Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Gasol...AD
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DrDent
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:28 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
16-0: Against under .500 teams
5-3: Against over over .500 teams

5 Wins: Jazz, Nuggets, Heat, Mavs, Jazz
3 Losses: Mavs, Raptors, Clippers


What about their record vs teams that would be in playoffs if the playoffs started today?
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leking006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:38 am    Post subject:

defense wrote:
We are approaching 50% from 2 point range. we are built to destroy teams in the paint. Then again we are a top 10 3 point shooting team too.



We are actually the #1 3pt shooting team the last 12 games.
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defense
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:14 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
defense wrote:
We are approaching 50% from 2 point range. we are built to destroy teams in the paint. Then again we are a top 10 3 point shooting team too.



Pretty sure we are well above 50% from 2pt range since usually only the bottom teams are the ones at that mark.


Yea i meant fg
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Treble Clef
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:03 pm    Post subject:

leking006 wrote:
defense wrote:
We are approaching 50% from 2 point range. we are built to destroy teams in the paint. Then again we are a top 10 3 point shooting team too.



We are actually the #1 3pt shooting team the last 12 games.


Has a team ever been the best inside scoring team, best outside shooting team, and best defensive team all at once? It doesn't even seem fair.
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lar9149
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:15 pm    Post subject:

DrDent wrote:
lar9149 wrote:
LaLaLakeShow wrote:
DrDent wrote:
greek laker wrote:
I didnt know where to post this. It ll be interesting to find out who
originally thought the plan with the towers in the paint in contradiction
to the modern reigning opinion that this league belongs to small,quick
guards who shoot 3pointers in a high volume.I dont know if it was a plan
or simple luck but it changes the perspective of the game for sure.


I’m so glad you brought this up. Let’s really look at this.

Statistically speaking basically everyone and their mom loves this go wild with 3s and get a bunch of similar sized dudes who can switch or if you can’t try to go 3 and d as much as you can everywhere and have “positionless” basketball. Suns try this. Mavs. Kings. Keep going there’s tons more. Inevitably you do win games here and there simply if you get hot. But championship caliber?

Let’s remove that Durant warrior team from this equation. That was an outlier, no one will have anything like that in a starting 5 anytime soon. So take them out of the equation and you have a warrior team sans durant challenged by...Lebron and kyrie (love really in background). The other team that challenged the epitome of the 3 ball team: KL led raptors, a team built much more traditionally with size etc

Only team I can’t really explain is Houston. They live by the 3 and came close to even knocking off the Durant warriors. They added some additional toughness, d, and still loved iso ball tho with harden.

And here we have the Lakers. They have guys who can hit 3s but are much more traditional built with size up front and not requiring all 5 guys on floor be 3 shooters. They are moving back more towards balance (eg the big man is important, and one of our bigs is an upgrade to rest of you 3 guys as he can play all over) and dominating so far while doing it.


You mean actual basketball?


You know there is actually analytical logic to using the 3 ball as a main stray.

Say a guy he is a below average 3 point shooter at 33%..for simplicity, that is 1 point per 3 point attempt

Compare that to an above average 2 point shooter at 50%..that is also 1 point per attempt. But with 2 point shoots there is risk of having the ball stolen or stripped.

So a below average 3 point shooter can be just as efficient as an above average 2 point shooter b/c a 3 point shoot is worth 50% more than a 2 point shoot.

So this is the reason why I think some teams have gone with the 3 point shooting philosphy. Plus, the idea of using size and length, will there just aren't a lot of big men like AD, Dwight, and Mcgee around. At least not enough for many teams to utilize. The Lakers happen to have 3 of them. But there are plenty of small guards around..and they can be trained to be great 3 point shooters. Guys like AD are "freaks" of nature..you can't train that so easily or perhaps not at all.

So using size is a great strategy because you can just overpower opponents. But it is just not available to all..the Lakers with their branding power, seem to be one of the few teams that can do this and it seems to be their philosphy..Magic the 6'10" point guard, the 2009-2012 team of Odom/Brynum/Gasol and the 2000s of Shaq..enough said.


Good post👍 Also this AM I realized: Lakers know how to build around a talented big man. Just in their DNA. Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Gasol...AD


Thanks Dr. I actually loved to see the domination of big men by the Lakers. I find it more entertaining than just wildly putting up 3 after 3.
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durden-tyler
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:13 am    Post subject:

25 GAMES

OFFRTG : 112.6 (4)
DEFRTG : 103.1 (3)
NETRTG : +9.5 (2)

No signs of slowing down...
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