To me Josh Hart is absolutely untouchable
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Sentient Meat
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:48 am    Post subject:

AirTupac wrote:
We have so many "untouchables", you'd think we were the Warriors


The Warriors were untouchable when they were on controlled rookie contracts.

OKC broke up their core, the Warriors held on to their core.

I'm not saying our core is as good as either team but sometimes patience is a virtue.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:53 am    Post subject:

Not to be the contrarian but his "untouchable" status is exactly the value he and Kuz bring to being trade commodities- zo and ingram both being #2 picks are harder to part with but of course they ALONG with either Hart or Kuz or both for say an anthony davis would be a no-brainer IMO...
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:38 am    Post subject:

"Untouchable" is one of those vague words that can mean different things to different people.

To me, it means you have a hard time imagining being offered a deal that would make it worth giving a player up. It's often the franchise player you are tying your future to.

Not many guys like that in the league. Hart, Ball, Kuz and Ingram aren't close to being untouchables in my view. I can easily envision the Lakers being offered a deal(s) that would make us part with any or all of them.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:50 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
AirTupac wrote:
We have so many "untouchables", you'd think we were the Warriors


The Warriors were untouchable when they were on controlled rookie contracts.

OKC broke up their core, the Warriors held on to their core.

I'm not saying our core is as good as either team but sometimes patience is a virtue.


The difference is none of your young guys project as being MVP/franchise level players.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:14 pm    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
AirTupac wrote:
We have so many "untouchables", you'd think we were the Warriors


The Warriors were untouchable when they were on controlled rookie contracts.

OKC broke up their core, the Warriors held on to their core.

I'm not saying our core is as good as either team but sometimes patience is a virtue.


The difference is none of your young guys project as being MVP/franchise level players.


I think ppl tend to forget how good Curry was his rookie year

17pts 6apg 5rpg 2stls per game
Fg%46 3pt%43 on 5 attempts per game, FT%88

lol
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:36 pm    Post subject:

Hart has been hugely disappointing in terms of his perimeter defense. He’s great if he’s forced to switch into a big and has to body him to keep him from getting an easy look, but guards blow by him at will, and guys like DeRozan shoot over him easily. Love the toughness, but we need stops and Hart is one of the first points of attacks for the opposing team when he’s on the floor.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:37 pm    Post subject:

This thread title is the reason why we shouldn’t draw conclusions after 2-3 games...Lol
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:35 pm    Post subject:

al242 wrote:
This thread title is the reason why we shouldn’t draw conclusions after 2-3 games...Lol


This didn't age well
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:39 pm    Post subject:

There are no untouchables except for LeBron.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:39 pm    Post subject:

LKA wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
AirTupac wrote:
We have so many "untouchables", you'd think we were the Warriors


The Warriors were untouchable when they were on controlled rookie contracts.

OKC broke up their core, the Warriors held on to their core.

I'm not saying our core is as good as either team but sometimes patience is a virtue.


The difference is none of your young guys project as being MVP/franchise level players.


I think ppl tend to forget how good Curry was his rookie year

17pts 6apg 5rpg 2stls per game
Fg%46 3pt%43 on 5 attempts per game, FT%88

lol

But he was an "old rookie" like Kuz therefore he has low upside
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:20 pm    Post subject:

He was untouchable from the 3 last night vs OKC also. Meaning no one can touch how poor he shot, aside from Westbrook.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:39 pm    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
He was untouchable from the 3 last night vs OKC also. Meaning no one can touch how poor he shot, aside from Westbrook.


lol.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:40 pm    Post subject:

LKA wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
AirTupac wrote:
We have so many "untouchables", you'd think we were the Warriors


The Warriors were untouchable when they were on controlled rookie contracts.

OKC broke up their core, the Warriors held on to their core.

I'm not saying our core is as good as either team but sometimes patience is a virtue.


The difference is none of your young guys project as being MVP/franchise level players.


I think ppl tend to forget how good Curry was his rookie year

17pts 6apg 5rpg 2stls per game
Fg%46 3pt%43 on 5 attempts per game, FT%88

lol


He was sooooo good to end his rookie year. Last 40 games: 22ppg, 7.3 apg, 5rb, 2stls, .46 .438 (6 a game) .906. One triple double (36/13/10), 7 30 point games (several above 25), one 40 point game, and 8 double doubles (with a high of 15 assists). That's why the whole "woah he came out of nowhere" narrative always infuriated me. Curry was an obvious star in the making - he just had really, really bad ankle issues. It's also why I laugh when people think we have any "stars." I'm high on BI/Zo/Kuz/Hart - think they can all contribute to championship level teams and i like that Zo, Kuz, and Hart can put up high volume metrics on low usage rates -- but not a single one of them, except maybe Julius last season, has EVER put up a string of games even close to Curry.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:56 pm    Post subject:

Cutheon wrote:
LKA wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
AirTupac wrote:
We have so many "untouchables", you'd think we were the Warriors


The Warriors were untouchable when they were on controlled rookie contracts.

OKC broke up their core, the Warriors held on to their core.

I'm not saying our core is as good as either team but sometimes patience is a virtue.


The difference is none of your young guys project as being MVP/franchise level players.


I think ppl tend to forget how good Curry was his rookie year

17pts 6apg 5rpg 2stls per game
Fg%46 3pt%43 on 5 attempts per game, FT%88

lol


He was sooooo good to end his rookie year. Last 40 games: 22ppg, 7.3 apg, 5rb, 2stls, .46 .438 (6 a game) .906. One triple double (36/13/10), 7 30 point games (several above 25), one 40 point game, and 8 double doubles (with a high of 15 assists). That's why the whole "woah he came out of nowhere" narrative always infuriated me. Curry was an obvious star in the making - he just had really, really bad ankle issues. It's also why I laugh when people think we have any "stars." I'm high on BI/Zo/Kuz/Hart - think they can all contribute to championship level teams and i like that Zo, Kuz, and Hart can put up high volume metrics on low usage rates -- but not a single one of them, except maybe Julius last season, has EVER put up a string of games even close to Curry.

Curry was also 21 when he came into the league. For all the "if you're not a star by year 3, you're a bust" crowd, Steph didn't make an all star team until his 5th season. His sophomore season was barely a leap over his rookie season, then he got hurt in his 3rd year. How do you think Laker fans would have reacted to an "old rookie" not improving in his second season, and getting hurt and missing most of his 3rd year?

Steph's a transcendent player, but to say it was predictable in hindsight is extremely disingenuous. Even when he made an all star team, no one thought he could make the MVP leap. And when he won the MVP, no one expected him to jump from 24 to 30 ppg the year AFTER winning MVP to cement himself as one of the greatest of all time.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:47 pm    Post subject:

I'm not part of that star by year 3 crowd. In any event, Curry's team sucked and he had a lot of health issues - doesn't surprise me he didn't jump into the all-star game, particularly given how crowded the Western conference was at the guard position. As to him being 21 - BI is 21 now and has the benefit of two years of NBA training and still doesn't touch Curry. Neither does Kuz, who came into the NBA as an even older Rookie. This just shows you how obviously talented Curry was (and, of course, the offensive genius of Nelly, especially w/r/t guard-play). I'm not sure how Laker Nation would have reacted - probably pretty poorly.

I stand by Curry being an obvious "star in the making." Injuries and poor team play are hard to account for; in any event, I'm not sure how you look at that stat-line, and the game-tape, and come to any conclusion other than: "duh." And this isn't with the benefit of hindsight - plenty of people on this site, such as Mike@LG and myself, knew Curry was a stud - pure and simple. All that "no one expected" stuff is pure nonsense. A lot of people don't know jack about basketball -- just so happens most of them work in sports media. In any event, shortly after Curry's sophomore season (where Curry, contrary to your revisionist history, more than "barely" increased his play), he underwent surgery and had a throwaway third season (also lock-out year). The next season he set broke Allen's 3pt record. And we all know what happened next - MVP's, championships, more records.

Maybe it was unexpected to you, but the game-tape and numbers clearly showed a player that was a star -- "old rookie" be damned. And, again, not a single one of our players has shown anything even close. I'm still high on them but they are far, far from untouchable
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:59 pm    Post subject:

Cutheon wrote:
I'm not part of that star by year 3 crowd. In any event, Curry's team sucked and he had a lot of health issues - doesn't surprise me he didn't jump into the all-star game, particularly given how crowded the Western conference was at the guard position. As to him being 21 - BI is 21 now and has the benefit of two years of NBA training and still doesn't touch Curry. Neither does Kuz, who came into the NBA as an even older Rookie. This just shows you how obviously talented Curry was (and, of course, the offensive genius of Nelly, especially w/r/t guard-play). I'm not sure how Laker Nation would have reacted - probably pretty poorly.

I stand by Curry being an obvious "star in the making." Injuries and poor team play are hard to account for; in any event, I'm not sure how you look at that stat-line, and the game-tape, and come to any conclusion other than: "duh." And this isn't with the benefit of hindsight - plenty of people on this site, such as Mike@LG and myself, knew Curry was a stud - pure and simple. All that "no one expected" stuff is pure nonsense. A lot of people don't know jack about basketball -- just so happens most of them work in sports media. In any event, shortly after Curry's sophomore season (where Curry, contrary to your revisionist history, more than "barely" increased his play), he underwent surgery and had a throwaway third season (also lock-out year). The next season he set broke Allen's 3pt record. And we all know what happened next - MVP's, championships, more records.

Maybe it was unexpected to you, but the game-tape and numbers clearly showed a player that was a star -- "old rookie" be damned. And, again, not a single one of our players has shown anything even close. I'm still high on them but they are far, far from untouchable

You and others definitely get props for recognizing it. But if most "stupid people" didn't, then it clearly wasn't blindly obvious.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:05 pm    Post subject:

awntawn wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
LKA wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
AirTupac wrote:
We have so many "untouchables", you'd think we were the Warriors


The Warriors were untouchable when they were on controlled rookie contracts.

OKC broke up their core, the Warriors held on to their core.

I'm not saying our core is as good as either team but sometimes patience is a virtue.


The difference is none of your young guys project as being MVP/franchise level players.


I think ppl tend to forget how good Curry was his rookie year

17pts 6apg 5rpg 2stls per game
Fg%46 3pt%43 on 5 attempts per game, FT%88

lol


He was sooooo good to end his rookie year. Last 40 games: 22ppg, 7.3 apg, 5rb, 2stls, .46 .438 (6 a game) .906. One triple double (36/13/10), 7 30 point games (several above 25), one 40 point game, and 8 double doubles (with a high of 15 assists). That's why the whole "woah he came out of nowhere" narrative always infuriated me. Curry was an obvious star in the making - he just had really, really bad ankle issues. It's also why I laugh when people think we have any "stars." I'm high on BI/Zo/Kuz/Hart - think they can all contribute to championship level teams and i like that Zo, Kuz, and Hart can put up high volume metrics on low usage rates -- but not a single one of them, except maybe Julius last season, has EVER put up a string of games even close to Curry.

Curry was also 21 when he came into the league. For all the "if you're not a star by year 3, you're a bust" crowd, Steph didn't make an all star team until his 5th season. His sophomore season was barely a leap over his rookie season, then he got hurt in his 3rd year. How do you think Laker fans would have reacted to an "old rookie" not improving in his second season, and getting hurt and missing most of his 3rd year?

Steph's a transcendent player, but to say it was predictable in hindsight is extremely disingenuous. Even when he made an all star team, no one thought he could make the MVP leap. And when he won the MVP, no one expected him to jump from 24 to 30 ppg the year AFTER winning MVP to cement himself as one of the greatest of all time.


There are few superstars where you could have predicted how good they turned out.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:07 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
I agree, he is like a mini Butler for us... don’t see him going anywhere even in a Anthony Davis trade.


Interesting to read these takes from a couple of months ago
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:11 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
The purity of Hart's shot right now is a thing of beauty... the way he violently swishes the ball in from 30 feet makes me a believer... that it's not a fluke... it's the sound of precision gained from complete confidence and hours of practice.

Add that to the rest of his game and he becomes something perhaps not absolutely untouchable but pretty damn close.

If he ends up above 40% from three... I can think of few players I'd rather have in his place.


His shots were violently doing something last night.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:17 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
The purity of Hart's shot right now is a thing of beauty... the way he violently swishes the ball in from 30 feet makes me a believer... that it's not a fluke... it's the sound of precision gained from complete confidence and hours of practice.

Add that to the rest of his game and he becomes something perhaps not absolutely untouchable but pretty damn close.

If he ends up above 40% from three... I can think of few players I'd rather have in his place.


His shots were violently doing something last night.



Honestly though, he's still a good shooter who just had a rough shooting night. It's not indictment on Josh, it just goes to show that 3 and D players are often being overvalued over players who are able to create more consistent offense.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:19 pm    Post subject:

awntawn wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
The purity of Hart's shot right now is a thing of beauty... the way he violently swishes the ball in from 30 feet makes me a believer... that it's not a fluke... it's the sound of precision gained from complete confidence and hours of practice.

Add that to the rest of his game and he becomes something perhaps not absolutely untouchable but pretty damn close.

If he ends up above 40% from three... I can think of few players I'd rather have in his place.


His shots were violently doing something last night.



Honestly though, he's still a good shooter who just had a rough shooting night. It's not indictment on Josh, it just goes to show that 3 and D players are often being overvalued over players who are able to create more consistent offense.


I really appreciated him pushing the pace towards the end of the fourth. he had a couple very nice transition attacks - he's like a RB out there sometimes, sizing up the hole and just exploding to the rim. Disappointed the rest of the team (and Luke) didn't see that and realize the key to victory was to turn on the jets and run, run, run the Thunder down.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:22 pm    Post subject: Re: To me Josh Hart is absolutely untouchable

[quote="Polarbear].....he defends well several positions[/quote]

should read
“he defends...well...several positions”
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:22 pm    Post subject:

Josh won't probably let you touch him either.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:38 pm    Post subject:

Everyone except The King is touchable or even strokeable.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:44 pm    Post subject:

awntawn wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
The purity of Hart's shot right now is a thing of beauty... the way he violently swishes the ball in from 30 feet makes me a believer... that it's not a fluke... it's the sound of precision gained from complete confidence and hours of practice.

Add that to the rest of his game and he becomes something perhaps not absolutely untouchable but pretty damn close.

If he ends up above 40% from three... I can think of few players I'd rather have in his place.


His shots were violently doing something last night.



Honestly though, he's still a good shooter who just had a rough shooting night. It's not indictment on Josh, it just goes to show that 3 and D players are often being overvalued over players who are able to create more consistent offense.


They're synergistic. 3 & D's keep defenses honest and make life hard for the other team on Offense. Creators get the open looks for the 3 & D's and save possessions when the team defends you correctly. You need both and they're both hard to get.
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