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jonnybravo
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:04 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
^
Baez came in and got 3 outs, and it should've been an even easier inning for him than it was. Struck out Myers, then got what should've been a DP ball that Kike threw wide of the first base bag on to finish it off, and then he struck out Garcia. He's our best reliever right now.


If you told me this X # of years ago...


I know. I wanted him gone. LOL.


You and ALL Dodgers' fans.

We should pull up quotes from the previous seasons' threads.


"Baez is in ...OH NO!!!! WHY!???!" Proceeds to give up a run.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:07 pm    Post subject:

Jansen walks Machado to bring the tying run up. That stuff simply would not have happened in years past.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:09 pm    Post subject:

And I hate the shift in the 9th inning, and that's why. It's a free base hit. This is where playing the game needs to come into play instead of a computer that tells you that the percentages favor playing 3 guys on one side of the infield.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:18 pm    Post subject:

At least Jansen got out of it. Throwing all cutters tonight. It just feels shaky now whenever he's in there. Not automatic.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:28 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
And I hate the shift in the 9th inning, and that's why. It's a free base hit. This is where playing the game needs to come into play instead of a computer that tells you that the percentages favor playing 3 guys on one side of the infield.


Players should do this every time teams shift on them like this.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:48 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
At least Jansen got out of it. Throwing all cutters tonight. It just feels shaky now whenever he's in there. Not automatic.


Yup
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:22 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
^
Baez came in and got 3 outs, and it should've been an even easier inning for him than it was. Struck out Myers, then got what should've been a DP ball that Kike threw wide of the first base bag on to finish it off, and then he struck out Garcia. He's our best reliever right now.


If you told me this X # of years ago...


I know. I wanted him gone. LOL.


You and ALL Dodgers' fans.

We should pull up quotes from the previous seasons' threads.


"Baez is in ...OH NO!!!! WHY!???!" Proceeds to give up a run.


Haha, I've probably been his BIGGEST critic the last few years.

Gotta admit, ever since the last half of last season, he's been a different cat. Definitely glad he's proving me wrong and hope he'll continue to prove me wrong.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:06 pm    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
And I hate the shift in the 9th inning, and that's why. It's a free base hit. This is where playing the game needs to come into play instead of a computer that tells you that the percentages favor playing 3 guys on one side of the infield.


Players should do this every time teams shift on them like this.


I understand not doing it earlier in a game. But for sure, in the late innings, in a situation like that where you have precious few outs left, if the defense is configured to basically give you a free base hit, it just seems so damn easy. I'm not a fan of the shift in late-inning situations, unless you know it's a guy at the plate who can't bunt to save his life.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 7:56 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Jansen walks Machado to bring the tying run up. That stuff simply would not have happened in years past.


And Kershaw will not likely ever have an ERA in the 1's. . . .

Being automatic occurs with only a few relief pitchers and typically only in a few of their years. To be less than automatic does not mean being of little value. Expecting perfection every year is simply unrealistic. We've been spoiled.

Kenley has been in the top 10 in saves in all of MLB for six straight years, and in the top four for the last four years. Looking at who was in the top 10 last year as well as this, Kenley joins 4 others; top 4, only Kenley. Who has been in the top ten for the last 4 years--not to mention top 4? Only Kenley. Going back to 1990, only Lee Smith (not even Mariano), can make this claim (and bettered it with 5 consecutive years), though Hoffman did make the top 5 four consecutive years.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 8:24 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Jansen walks Machado to bring the tying run up. That stuff simply would not have happened in years past.


And Kershaw will not likely ever have an ERA in the 1's. . . .

Being automatic occurs with only a few relief pitchers and typically only in a few of their years. To be less than automatic does not mean being of little value. Expecting perfection every year is simply unrealistic. We've been spoiled.

Kenley has been in the top 10 in saves in all of MLB for six straight years, and in the top four for the last four years. Looking at who was in the top 10 last year as well as this, Kenley joins 4 others; top 4, only Kenley. Who has been in the top ten for the last 4 years--not to mention top 4? Only Kenley. Going back to 1990, only Lee Smith (not even Mariano), can make this claim (and bettered it with 5 consecutive years), though Hoffman did make the top 5 four consecutive years.


This is a good perspective. We have been spoiled for years, and should probably temper expectations.

This is another reason why 2017 (and to a lesser extent 2018) hurts so bad.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 8:47 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Jansen walks Machado to bring the tying run up. That stuff simply would not have happened in years past.


And Kershaw will not likely ever have an ERA in the 1's. . . .

Being automatic occurs with only a few relief pitchers and typically only in a few of their years. To be less than automatic does not mean being of little value. Expecting perfection every year is simply unrealistic. We've been spoiled.

Kenley has been in the top 10 in saves in all of MLB for six straight years, and in the top four for the last four years. Looking at who was in the top 10 last year as well as this, Kenley joins 4 others; top 4, only Kenley. Who has been in the top ten for the last 4 years--not to mention top 4? Only Kenley. Going back to 1990, only Lee Smith (not even Mariano), can make this claim (and bettered it with 5 consecutive years), though Hoffman did make the top 5 four consecutive years.


There's a huge gap between perfection and how Kenley's performed this year and last year.

Kenley's getting paid $18M this year
$18M next year and $20M the year after.

He's trending in the wrong direction.
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:09 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
ribeye wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Jansen walks Machado to bring the tying run up. That stuff simply would not have happened in years past.


And Kershaw will not likely ever have an ERA in the 1's. . . .

Being automatic occurs with only a few relief pitchers and typically only in a few of their years. To be less than automatic does not mean being of little value. Expecting perfection every year is simply unrealistic. We've been spoiled.

Kenley has been in the top 10 in saves in all of MLB for six straight years, and in the top four for the last four years. Looking at who was in the top 10 last year as well as this, Kenley joins 4 others; top 4, only Kenley. Who has been in the top ten for the last 4 years--not to mention top 4? Only Kenley. Going back to 1990, only Lee Smith (not even Mariano), can make this claim (and bettered it with 5 consecutive years), though Hoffman did make the top 5 four consecutive years.


There's a huge gap between perfection and how Kenley's performed this year and last year.

Kenley's getting paid $18M this year
$18M next year and $20M the year after.

He's trending in the wrong direction.


We disagree. He is the only pitcher in the top four in saves over the last two years. Does this alone make perfection? Of course not, but he's still a very good pitcher.

That he may no longer be worth $18-20M is likely true but that was not my point. Regardless, how many complained contemporaneously, you know, at the time of the signing?
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:16 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
ribeye wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Jansen walks Machado to bring the tying run up. That stuff simply would not have happened in years past.


And Kershaw will not likely ever have an ERA in the 1's. . . .

Being automatic occurs with only a few relief pitchers and typically only in a few of their years. To be less than automatic does not mean being of little value. Expecting perfection every year is simply unrealistic. We've been spoiled.

Kenley has been in the top 10 in saves in all of MLB for six straight years, and in the top four for the last four years. Looking at who was in the top 10 last year as well as this, Kenley joins 4 others; top 4, only Kenley. Who has been in the top ten for the last 4 years--not to mention top 4? Only Kenley. Going back to 1990, only Lee Smith (not even Mariano), can make this claim (and bettered it with 5 consecutive years), though Hoffman did make the top 5 four consecutive years.


There's a huge gap between perfection and how Kenley's performed this year and last year.

Kenley's getting paid $18M this year
$18M next year and $20M the year after.

He's trending in the wrong direction.


We disagree. He is the only pitcher in the top four in saves over the last two years. Does this alone make perfection? Of course not, but he's still a very good pitcher.

That he may no longer be worth $18-20M is likely true but that was not my point. Regardless, how many complained contemporaneously, you know, at the time of the signing?


Yeah, I understand your point.

There's another point too, we're trying to win a WS and Jansen might not be a good enough closer for us to win a WS.

He wasn't last year and he's looking shaky this year. With what he's being paid, it makes it hard for us to get another great closer to replace him.

That's the situation we are facing.

It's not about comparing his resumes, or stepping back and looking at his career. It's about trying to win a ring and can he do the job for us?

At least, that's all I care about and it's looking shaky.

With all that you said, if you also put in there that you have the confidence that Jansen will hold it down in the playoffs, then that's all I care about.

If you have little to no confidence in him to do his job, then maybe it really is time to start reflecting on what a great career he HAD.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:24 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
ribeye wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
ribeye wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Jansen walks Machado to bring the tying run up. That stuff simply would not have happened in years past.


And Kershaw will not likely ever have an ERA in the 1's. . . .

Being automatic occurs with only a few relief pitchers and typically only in a few of their years. To be less than automatic does not mean being of little value. Expecting perfection every year is simply unrealistic. We've been spoiled.

Kenley has been in the top 10 in saves in all of MLB for six straight years, and in the top four for the last four years. Looking at who was in the top 10 last year as well as this, Kenley joins 4 others; top 4, only Kenley. Who has been in the top ten for the last 4 years--not to mention top 4? Only Kenley. Going back to 1990, only Lee Smith (not even Mariano), can make this claim (and bettered it with 5 consecutive years), though Hoffman did make the top 5 four consecutive years.


There's a huge gap between perfection and how Kenley's performed this year and last year.

Kenley's getting paid $18M this year
$18M next year and $20M the year after.

He's trending in the wrong direction.


We disagree. He is the only pitcher in the top four in saves over the last two years. Does this alone make perfection? Of course not, but he's still a very good pitcher.

That he may no longer be worth $18-20M is likely true but that was not my point. Regardless, how many complained contemporaneously, you know, at the time of the signing?


Yeah, I understand your point.

There's another point too, we're trying to win a WS and Jansen might not be a good enough closer for us to win a WS.

He wasn't last year and he's looking shaky this year. With what he's being paid, it makes it hard for us to get another great closer to replace him.

That's the situation we are facing.

It's not about comparing his resumes, or stepping back and looking at his career. It's about trying to win a ring and can he do the job for us?

At least, that's all I care about and it's looking shaky.

With all that you said, if you also put in there that you have the confidence that Jansen will hold it down in the playoffs, then that's all I care about.

If you have no confidence in him to do his job, then maybe it really is time to start reflecting on what a great career he HAD.


Maybe the Dodgers go after Kimbrel after June 3. Then again, he will be of interest to a lot of teams and the bidding will likely be fierce.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:29 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
ribeye wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
ribeye wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Jansen walks Machado to bring the tying run up. That stuff simply would not have happened in years past.


And Kershaw will not likely ever have an ERA in the 1's. . . .

Being automatic occurs with only a few relief pitchers and typically only in a few of their years. To be less than automatic does not mean being of little value. Expecting perfection every year is simply unrealistic. We've been spoiled.

Kenley has been in the top 10 in saves in all of MLB for six straight years, and in the top four for the last four years. Looking at who was in the top 10 last year as well as this, Kenley joins 4 others; top 4, only Kenley. Who has been in the top ten for the last 4 years--not to mention top 4? Only Kenley. Going back to 1990, only Lee Smith (not even Mariano), can make this claim (and bettered it with 5 consecutive years), though Hoffman did make the top 5 four consecutive years.


There's a huge gap between perfection and how Kenley's performed this year and last year.

Kenley's getting paid $18M this year
$18M next year and $20M the year after.

He's trending in the wrong direction.


We disagree. He is the only pitcher in the top four in saves over the last two years. Does this alone make perfection? Of course not, but he's still a very good pitcher.

That he may no longer be worth $18-20M is likely true but that was not my point. Regardless, how many complained contemporaneously, you know, at the time of the signing?


Yeah, I understand your point.

There's another point too, we're trying to win a WS and Jansen might not be a good enough closer for us to win a WS.

He wasn't last year and he's looking shaky this year. With what he's being paid, it makes it hard for us to get another great closer to replace him.

That's the situation we are facing.

It's not about comparing his resumes, or stepping back and looking at his career. It's about trying to win a ring and can he do the job for us?

At least, that's all I care about and it's looking shaky.

With all that you said, if you also put in there that you have the confidence that Jansen will hold it down in the playoffs, then that's all I care about.

If you have no confidence in him to do his job, then maybe it really is time to start reflecting on what a great career he HAD.


Maybe the Dodgers go after Kimbrel after June 3. Then again, he will be of interest to a lot of teams and the bidding will likely be fierce.


yup, and that's where Jansen's contract comes into play.

That and he's come out and said he doesn't want to give up his closer role, so we're pretty much stuck with him for the next 3 years.

All we can do is hope he gets his form back. We might not have any other options for the next 3 years.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 10:51 am    Post subject:

Rib-bit:

Of all the Dodger pitchers who have started this year, Kershaw has the slowest average fastball.

It's a good thing he knows how to pitch.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 2:51 pm    Post subject:

Jansen said he would welcome Kimbrel as a teammate. Now, whether that means he thinks he would still be the closer, I have no idea.

I'm going by my eyes here, as I watch a lot of games. He just looks hittable to me. I'm not going so much by the still-great peripherals. His pitches just look hittable, with less movement. It was never about velocity much for him, so I don't worry so much about that, but if he doesn't have the same movement and if he's missing location a lot, I just don't see the same dude out there. Now, granted, you don't have to be an all-time great closer to get the job done. But if there is an option that might be better, I think we need to explore it. Whether that means Kimbrel, whether that means Baez, or whether that means making Urias (if he's still here) the de factor Josh Hader in the postseason, I don't know.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 2:57 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Jansen said he would welcome Kimbrel as a teammate. Now, whether that means he thinks he would still be the closer, I have no idea.

I'm going by my eyes here, as I watch a lot of games. He just looks hittable to me. I'm not going so much by the still-great peripherals. His pitches just look hittable, with less movement. It was never about velocity much for him, so I don't worry so much about that, but if he doesn't have the same movement and if he's missing location a lot, I just don't see the same dude out there. Now, granted, you don't have to be an all-time great closer to get the job done. But if there is an option that might be better, I think we need to explore it. Whether that means Kimbrel, whether that means Baez, or whether that means making Urias (if he's still here) the de factor Josh Hader in the postseason, I don't know.


As LBP said above, Jansen stated in an interview that he welcomes Kimbrel, but that he (Jansen) is the closer. He sounded pretty emphatic about his position. Since he is not God, or the GM, or the manager, his best bet is to not give the Dodgers any reason to need Kimbrel.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 3:55 pm    Post subject:

Pretty sure Kimbrel said he's also the closer, an absurd statement given that the closer is clearly Kyra Sedgwick. Anyway. What about when we pursued Chapman? That was a done deal before the DV incident. If that didn't happen, and we brought him aboard, was Kenley okay with being the bridge?
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 4:47 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Jansen said he would welcome Kimbrel as a teammate. Now, whether that means he thinks he would still be the closer, I have no idea.

I'm going by my eyes here, as I watch a lot of games. He just looks hittable to me. I'm not going so much by the still-great peripherals. His pitches just look hittable, with less movement. It was never about velocity much for him, so I don't worry so much about that, but if he doesn't have the same movement and if he's missing location a lot, I just don't see the same dude out there. Now, granted, you don't have to be an all-time great closer to get the job done. But if there is an option that might be better, I think we need to explore it. Whether that means Kimbrel, whether that means Baez, or whether that means making Urias (if he's still here) the de factor Josh Hader in the postseason, I don't know.


As LBP said above, Jansen stated in an interview that he welcomes Kimbrel, but that he (Jansen) is the closer. He sounded pretty emphatic about his position. Since he is not God, or the GM, or the manager, his best bet is to not give the Dodgers any reason to need Kimbrel.


Yup, here's the quote:

Quote:
The Dodgers need help in the bullpen. Craig Kimbrel needs a job.
And if the team signs Kimbrel, Kenley Jansen said he would welcome the fellow All-Star closer with open arms.

“Why not?” Jansen said. “We want to win a championship, right?”

Wait until after the draft next month and Kimbrel wouldn’t cost the Dodgers a pick, in which case the only obstacle would be money. And the Dodgers should have plenty of that, courtesy of the infamous television contract that made their games unwatchable to much of the city.

Except this is where the hypothetical addition stops being simple and more human factors have to be considered.

Before a 9-4 victory over the Atlanta Braves on Wednesday, Jansen made clear he believes the ninth innings belongs to him, regardless of whom the Dodgers sign, regardless of his difficult start to the season.

“That’s what I get paid for,” Jansen said. “I get paid for closing ballgames.”

Jansen has converted 12 of 14 save opportunities, but has a career-worst 4.67 earned-run average and is giving up home runs more frequently than he ever has. None of that has made him any more open to accepting new role, even if the Dodgers are positioned to land a reliever of Kimbrel’s ability and track record.

“Why should I have to do anything different?” Jansen said. “That’s my question. It doesn’t make any sense.”

Jansen glanced over at Justin Turner, who was a couple of lockers away.

“Would you tell JT to go pitch?” he said.

Of course, that’s not the same as, say, moving from the ninth inning to the eighth. Or sharing the ninth inning.

“We have the best record in the major leagues,” Jansen said. “It doesn’t make any sense. If something was wrong or whatever, I mean … I don’t see anything wrong right now. The team is doing good.”

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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 4:50 pm    Post subject:

I think this is much ado about nothing. If we signed Kimbrel, Kenley doesn't have much of a choice to come out in the 7th, 8th, or what have you. He can be disgruntled and a malcontent all he wants, but since Kenley is incredibly tight with the team, I believe issues would be quickly resolved in-house. Also, fwiw, criticism of Dave's game-management aside, I think even his most ardent critics have to admit he keeps a very tight, and very happy club house. I mean, (bleep), he solved Puig, guys. And given that winning cures all...something tells me KJ would get over it.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 4:51 pm    Post subject:

Put differently, this is very much a problem that I, the Dodgers, and Kenley would love to have.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 6:36 pm    Post subject:

The biggest problem with Jansen is that there are rarely any clean innings anymore. And he holds runners on first so poorly any runner that gets on first can easily go to second. The problem is they are hostage to his contract. To move him the dodgers would have to eat a huge amount of it.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 7:09 pm    Post subject:

”No Intent to Injure” reports TMZ Sports w/r/t Urias
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 5:37 am    Post subject:

too bad the timing did not work out to get another Kershaw & Castillo matchup.
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