Sorry to bring this up before tonights game but someone tell me how this was a smarter decision than getting the easy 2, Getting a quick foul and then taking a chance on SA missing the free throw and/or getting the 3 with more than 13 seconds left. I'm pretty sure we could get the ball accross halfcourt and get a shot with 13 seconds left.
I understand there were no timeouts but Rondo not getting the easy 2 with 13 seconds leftdoesn't seem like the right play. Tell me what I'm missing.
We had 0 timeouts left. There wasn't enough time on the clock to go quick 2 then foul, rebound, and shoot a 3. It would have been a 70 foot chuck at best
Sorry to bring this up before tonights game but someone tell me how this was a smarter decision than getting the easy 2, Getting a quick foul and then taking a chance on SA missing the free throw and/or getting the 3 with more than 13 seconds left. I'm pretty sure we could get the ball accross halfcourt and get a shot with 13 seconds left.
I understand there were no timeouts but Rondo not getting the easy 2 with 13 seconds leftdoesn't seem like the right play. Tell me what I'm missing.
You have to remember the Lakers called a timeout before that with 15.9 seconds left. It depends on what Luke drew up. If Luke told the team, we're going for the quick 2, then Rondo went rogue and messed up. But, if Luke drew up a play to get someone say Kuzma a 3, then Rondo was trying to execute that plan.
LeBron saw him open for a 2 so he passed to him. But in his mind, the plan was to try to get a 3, so he passed up the shot to try and get a 3.
So, I need to know what was said in the timeout. What did they draw up. What shot were they trying to take. I don't think they were going for a quick 2 though.
Looking at the play again, it really does look like the play was for LeBron to take a 3. The way he caught the ball and dribbled to his spot and picked up his dribble early, it looked like he was getting into a shooting motion. But, Rondo's man stayed with LeBron and Rudy Gay was right on LeBron then LeBron saw Rondo open right under the basket.
I think if LeBron was supposed to go for a quick 2, he wouldn't have picked up his dribble like that at the 3 pt line. He would have just went straight to the rack.
So I definitely think Luke drew up a play for LeBon to take a 3. LeBron saw Rondo cutting to the basket wide open and decided to pass to Rondo instead. Rondo, catching the ball was surprised and was thinking that the play was designed for them to take a 3 so he refused to shoot. I think that's what happened and I think it was him being selfless and not wanting to mess up Luke's instructions to go for a 3. It really does look like Rondo was going to lay it up and then he caught himself - remembering that hey, Luke instructed us to go for the 3. And you can see how Rondo changed his mind. If Luke instructed them to go for a 2, Rondo would have just layed it up. And you can see in the video how Rondo took a jump stop, gathered himself to go up and dunk then remembered, hey, we're going for 3 - so he caught himself and started dribbling out. It looked real awkward.
I think without a timeout left, I think Luke wanted to take a quick 3 and if we miss, we'd have enough time to get the offensive rebound and kick it out for another opportunity. I think that's what they drew up.
We had 0 timeouts left. There wasn't enough time on the clock to go quick 2 then foul, rebound, and shoot a 3. It would have been a 70 foot chuck at best
nnnNah, I don't think so. There was 13 left on the clock.
Tyus Edney went coast to coast and scored in 4 seconds.
Now Bron, Kuz or Hart aren't as fast but I could imagine them getting to 3 pt territory in 7-8 seconds. Faster with a pass or two with seconds to spare to make a decent attempt.
Anyways. Over and done with. Overall these last games were lost due to bad defense & rebounding.
Sorry to bring this up before tonights game but someone tell me how this was a smarter decision than getting the easy 2, Getting a quick foul and then taking a chance on SA missing the free throw and/or getting the 3 with more than 13 seconds left. I'm pretty sure we could get the ball accross halfcourt and get a shot with 13 seconds left.
I understand there were no timeouts but Rondo not getting the easy 2 with 13 seconds leftdoesn't seem like the right play. Tell me what I'm missing.
You have to remember the Lakers called a timeout before that with 15.9 seconds left. It depends on what Luke drew up. If Luke told the team, we're going for the quick 2, then Rondo went rogue and messed up. But, if Luke drew up a play to get someone say Kuzma a 3, then Rondo was trying to execute that plan.
LeBron saw him open for a 2 so he passed to him. But in his mind, the plan was to try to get a 3, so he passed up the shot to try and get a 3.
So, I need to know what was said in the timeout. What did they draw up. What shot were they trying to take. I don't think they were going for a quick 2 though.
Looking at the play again, it really does look like the play was for LeBron to take a 3. The way he caught the ball and dribbled to his spot and picked up his dribble early, it looked like he was getting into a shooting motion. But, Rondo's man stayed with LeBron and Rudy Gay was right on LeBron then LeBron saw Rondo open right under the basket.
I think if LeBron was supposed to go for a quick 2, he wouldn't have picked up his dribble like that at the 3 pt line. He would have just went straight to the rack.
So I definitely think Luke drew up a play for LeBon to take a 3. LeBron saw Rondo cutting to the basket wide open and decided to pass to Rondo instead. Rondo, catching the ball was surprised and was thinking that the play was designed for them to take a 3 so he refused to shoot. I think that's what happened and I think it was him being selfless and not wanting to mess up Luke's instructions to go for a 3. It really does look like Rondo was going to lay it up and then he caught himself - remembering that hey, Luke instructed us to go for the 3. And you can see how Rondo changed his mind. If Luke instructed them to go for a 2, Rondo would have just layed it up. And you can see in the video how Rondo took a jump stop, gathered himself to go up and dunk then remembered, hey, we're going for 3 - so he caught himself and started dribbling out. It looked real awkward.
I think without a timeout left, I think Luke wanted to take a quick 3 and if we miss, we'd have enough time to get the offensive rebound and kick it out for another opportunity. I think that's what they drew up.
Y'all are crazy. Taking the easy layup would have been the much smarter decision. Sure, if you see a shooter wide open, Rondo should have kicked it out. But without checking if there's no wide open three available, a quick layup and then foul with still a whole 10 seconds left is MORE than enough time to get a three or maybe if SAS missed a free throw or two, only a two-pointer would have been needed. Either way, that would have been enough time to get a good look like Lebron did in the previous game against SAS.
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22841 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:04 am Post subject:
Amazing how people have turned this into rocket science. Your initial instincts were correct when you watched it at home. LakerNation collectively gasped and yelled WTF when Rondo passed up the lay-up. Why? People most of us play basketball, and many have followed this game long enough to know that's the right play. If there were 5 seconds left, then yes, get the three. But there were 10-13 seconds. You get the lay-up, and you open yourself up to these possibilities:
1. A steal of the inbound pass.
2. You can't get the steal, you foul and the FT shooter may miss 1 of 2. In which case, the three you may be forced to take will be a game winner.
3. Worst case scenario, you're back to square 1 down by three when the FT shooter hits both FTs. But you should have over 8 seconds to run the court assuming you promptly fouled and stopped the clock after the Rondo lay-up. Running full court, even without timeout, will most likely get you a better look than the one Bron was forced to take. Especially after a miss free throw, when the defense won't be set.
Everyone brushing off the possibilities of #1 and #2 as if it's no biggie, when that's the way coaches have played out this type of scenario since forever. Rondo just over analyzed, end of story.
It probably is the better play to take the lay-up, foul and force them to make 2 clutch free throws. Even LeBron, the disputed GOAT of the sport is only 48% on free throws in those situations, so it is more likely we get another possession down by only 2 instead of down by 3.
Odds of making a layup... for Rondo 60.6% career FG% from 0-3 feet... then fouling and making a successful full court play for either two or three points in three seconds...
Even if they go 2-2 you get the ball back for a 3.
But by passing up the layup we went down 5 IIRC after we bricked a shot (and fouled) and it was game over by then. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Odds of making a layup... for Rondo 60.6% career FG% from 0-3 feet... then fouling and making a successful full court play for either two or three points in three seconds...
Much less than 34%.
well, Rondo was wide open and gathering himself for a dunk so his odds of making that dunk has got to be higher than 60.6%
Odds of making a layup... for Rondo 60.6% career FG% from 0-3 feet... then fouling and making a successful full court play for either two or three points in three seconds...
Much less than 34%.
well, Rondo was wide open and gathering himself for a dunk so his odds of making that dunk has got to be higher than 60.6%
True, but he probably made that calculation while he was gathering. Still worse than 34%. I wouldn't question Mr. BBIQ
With 13 seconds or so left, how was there not enough time left?
It takes let's say 1 full second to foul, that leave 12 seconds.
Let's assume they make both.
You have 12 seconds to score a 3 and tie it. You have to get the ball to the other side of the court in 8 seconds.
So worst case scenario you have 4 seconds with the ball in the halfcourt to get off a 3.
Doable.
I was going by Mychal Thompson saying there was three seconds... but looking at that footage... he looks like he thought about it, did the math... kicked it back out for the 34% chance. It looked worse than it was but he passed it to a good three point shooter Hart... who passed to LBJ... who missed and they still had a shot at an offensive rebound which makes the odds a little better than 34%
If he makes it... then they have to foul and run a play full court against a Spurs defense which now has time to prepare to defend.
Bottom line... it wasn't crazy what he did... I can see both sides.
Joined: 18 Apr 2004 Posts: 6339 Location: Virginia
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:59 am Post subject:
You absolutely take the quick two. Puts you down 1 point with 13 seconds left, from there you possibly steal an inbound pass, force a five second call, or you simply foul. At that point you are getting the ball back with 12 ish seconds left, down anywhere from 1-3 points. with 12 seconds you can easily drive coast to coast for a layup (if down one or two). If you are down three you are going to get a better look for a three with lebron pushing down hill full speed, he can either pull up or run a quick screen and pop for somebody. You only get 14 seconds off an offensive rebound, we would have been pushing down court with 12 seconds, that's a lifetime in the NBA.
With 13 seconds or so left, how was there not enough time left?
It takes let's say 1 full second to foul, that leave 12 seconds.
Let's assume they make both.
You have 12 seconds to score a 3 and tie it. You have to get the ball to the other side of the court in 8 seconds.
So worst case scenario you have 4 seconds with the ball in the halfcourt to get off a 3.
Doable.
I was going by Mychal Thompson saying there was three seconds... but looking at that footage... he looks like he thought about it, did the math... kicked it back out for the 34% chance. It looked worse than it was but he passed it to a good three point shooter Hart... who passed to LBJ... who missed and they still had a shot at an offensive rebound which makes the odds a little better than 34%
If he makes it... then they have to foul and run a play full court against a Spurs defense which now has time to prepare to defend.
Bottom line... it wasn't crazy what he did... I can see both sides.
In hindsight not a dumb play, dude thought it through pretty quickly.
With 13 seconds or so left, how was there not enough time left?
It takes let's say 1 full second to foul, that leave 12 seconds.
Let's assume they make both.
You have 12 seconds to score a 3 and tie it. You have to get the ball to the other side of the court in 8 seconds.
So worst case scenario you have 4 seconds with the ball in the halfcourt to get off a 3.
Doable.
I was going by Mychal Thompson saying there was three seconds... but looking at that footage... he looks like he thought about it, did the math... kicked it back out for the 34% chance. It looked worse than it was but he passed it to a good three point shooter Hart... who passed to LBJ... who missed and they still had a shot at an offensive rebound which makes the odds a little better than 34%
If he makes it... then they have to foul and run a play full court against a Spurs defense which now has time to prepare to defend.
Bottom line... it wasn't crazy what he did... I can see both sides.
In hindsight not a dumb play, dude thought it through pretty quickly.
It was a dumb play. There was a lot more than 3 seconds left. We only ended up with three seconds because of Rondo passing up the initial layup, nearly turning the ball over iirc, forcing the Lakers to use up more clock before Lebron had to put up a very low percentage, heavily contested three from almost the hash mark with Gay right in his face. Hart got fouled with 3 seconds left after all that unnecessary action ran off 9 seconds from the clock.
Last edited by mhan00 on Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:27 am; edited 1 time in total
With 13 seconds or so left, how was there not enough time left?
It takes let's say 1 full second to foul, that leave 12 seconds.
Let's assume they make both.
You have 12 seconds to score a 3 and tie it. You have to get the ball to the other side of the court in 8 seconds.
So worst case scenario you have 4 seconds with the ball in the halfcourt to get off a 3.
Doable.
I was going by Mychal Thompson saying there was three seconds... but looking at that footage... he looks like he thought about it, did the math... kicked it back out for the 34% chance. It looked worse than it was but he passed it to a good three point shooter Hart... who passed to LBJ... who missed and they still had a shot at an offensive rebound which makes the odds a little better than 34%
If he makes it... then they have to foul and run a play full court against a Spurs defense which now has time to prepare to defend.
Bottom line... it wasn't crazy what he did... I can see both sides.
Three seconds?
It was insane what he did. He had the ball with NO ONE around him with 12.7 secs to go. He was literally the only player in the paint. (0:14 mark here => )
That is plenty of time to foul, and then, bring the ball back and potentially tie it with a 2 or a 3.
Last edited by ringfinger on Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:33 am; edited 1 time in total
With 13 seconds or so left, how was there not enough time left?
It takes let's say 1 full second to foul, that leave 12 seconds.
Let's assume they make both.
You have 12 seconds to score a 3 and tie it. You have to get the ball to the other side of the court in 8 seconds.
So worst case scenario you have 4 seconds with the ball in the halfcourt to get off a 3.
Doable.
I was going by Mychal Thompson saying there was three seconds... but looking at that footage... he looks like he thought about it, did the math... kicked it back out for the 34% chance. It looked worse than it was but he passed it to a good three point shooter Hart... who passed to LBJ... who missed and they still had a shot at an offensive rebound which makes the odds a little better than 34%
If he makes it... then they have to foul and run a play full court against a Spurs defense which now has time to prepare to defend.
Bottom line... it wasn't crazy what he did... I can see both sides.
Three seconds?
It was insane what he did. He had the ball with NO ONE around him with 12.7 secs to go. He was literally the only player in the paint.
That is plenty of time to foul, and then, bring the ball back and potentially tie it with a 2 or a 3.
What if Luke's instructions were - we're going for 3?
With 13 seconds or so left, how was there not enough time left?
It takes let's say 1 full second to foul, that leave 12 seconds.
Let's assume they make both.
You have 12 seconds to score a 3 and tie it. You have to get the ball to the other side of the court in 8 seconds.
So worst case scenario you have 4 seconds with the ball in the halfcourt to get off a 3.
Doable.
I was going by Mychal Thompson saying there was three seconds... but looking at that footage... he looks like he thought about it, did the math... kicked it back out for the 34% chance. It looked worse than it was but he passed it to a good three point shooter Hart... who passed to LBJ... who missed and they still had a shot at an offensive rebound which makes the odds a little better than 34%
If he makes it... then they have to foul and run a play full court against a Spurs defense which now has time to prepare to defend.
Bottom line... it wasn't crazy what he did... I can see both sides.
Three seconds?
It was insane what he did. He had the ball with NO ONE around him with 12.7 secs to go. He was literally the only player in the paint.
That is plenty of time to foul, and then, bring the ball back and potentially tie it with a 2 or a 3.
What if Luke's instructions were - we're going for 3?
That wouldnt be smart so it wouldnt surprise me, but he is our vet and supposed to be the smartest guy on the court.
With 13 seconds or so left, how was there not enough time left?
It takes let's say 1 full second to foul, that leave 12 seconds.
Let's assume they make both.
You have 12 seconds to score a 3 and tie it. You have to get the ball to the other side of the court in 8 seconds.
So worst case scenario you have 4 seconds with the ball in the halfcourt to get off a 3.
Doable.
I was going by Mychal Thompson saying there was three seconds... but looking at that footage... he looks like he thought about it, did the math... kicked it back out for the 34% chance. It looked worse than it was but he passed it to a good three point shooter Hart... who passed to LBJ... who missed and they still had a shot at an offensive rebound which makes the odds a little better than 34%
If he makes it... then they have to foul and run a play full court against a Spurs defense which now has time to prepare to defend.
Bottom line... it wasn't crazy what he did... I can see both sides.
Three seconds?
It was insane what he did. He had the ball with NO ONE around him with 12.7 secs to go. He was literally the only player in the paint.
That is plenty of time to foul, and then, bring the ball back and potentially tie it with a 2 or a 3.
What if Luke's instructions were - we're going for 3?
That wouldnt be smart so it wouldnt surprise me, but he is our vet and supposed to be the smartest guy on the court.
Wasnt very smart there.
If we had a time out... then yes, I agree it would have been the smartest move to go for 2... go for the steal... then foul.
But with no timeouts... you are going from a chaotic situation 23 feet away to a chaotic situation 94 feet away.
Again, I already conceded that I see your guys points... I'm simply saying I can see what went through Rondo's mind as well, and it wasn't that terrible.
With 13 seconds or so left, how was there not enough time left?
It takes let's say 1 full second to foul, that leave 12 seconds.
Let's assume they make both.
You have 12 seconds to score a 3 and tie it. You have to get the ball to the other side of the court in 8 seconds.
So worst case scenario you have 4 seconds with the ball in the halfcourt to get off a 3.
Doable.
I was going by Mychal Thompson saying there was three seconds... but looking at that footage... he looks like he thought about it, did the math... kicked it back out for the 34% chance. It looked worse than it was but he passed it to a good three point shooter Hart... who passed to LBJ... who missed and they still had a shot at an offensive rebound which makes the odds a little better than 34%
If he makes it... then they have to foul and run a play full court against a Spurs defense which now has time to prepare to defend.
Bottom line... it wasn't crazy what he did... I can see both sides.
Three seconds?
It was insane what he did. He had the ball with NO ONE around him with 12.7 secs to go. He was literally the only player in the paint.
That is plenty of time to foul, and then, bring the ball back and potentially tie it with a 2 or a 3.
What if Luke's instructions were - we're going for 3?
That wouldnt be smart so it wouldnt surprise me, but he is our vet and supposed to be the smartest guy on the court.
Wasnt very smart there.
If we had a time out... then yes, I agree it would have been the smartest move to go for 2... go for the steal... then foul.
But with no timeouts... you are going from a chaotic situation 23 feet away to a chaotic situation 94 feet away.
Again, I already conceded that I see your guys points... I'm simply saying I can see what went through Rondo's mind as well, and it wasn't that terrible.
It was that terrible. If he saw a man wide open from three, then it would be understandable. But he nearly lost the ball and threw it to Josh Hart who was heavily covered. Hart didn’t even have a chance at getting a good look. With more than ten seconds left, there’s no excuse to not take the wide open layup.
With 13 seconds or so left, how was there not enough time left?
It takes let's say 1 full second to foul, that leave 12 seconds.
Let's assume they make both.
You have 12 seconds to score a 3 and tie it. You have to get the ball to the other side of the court in 8 seconds.
So worst case scenario you have 4 seconds with the ball in the halfcourt to get off a 3.
Doable.
I was going by Mychal Thompson saying there was three seconds... but looking at that footage... he looks like he thought about it, did the math... kicked it back out for the 34% chance. It looked worse than it was but he passed it to a good three point shooter Hart... who passed to LBJ... who missed and they still had a shot at an offensive rebound which makes the odds a little better than 34%
If he makes it... then they have to foul and run a play full court against a Spurs defense which now has time to prepare to defend.
Bottom line... it wasn't crazy what he did... I can see both sides.
Three seconds?
It was insane what he did. He had the ball with NO ONE around him with 12.7 secs to go. He was literally the only player in the paint.
That is plenty of time to foul, and then, bring the ball back and potentially tie it with a 2 or a 3.
What if Luke's instructions were - we're going for 3?
That wouldnt be smart so it wouldnt surprise me, but he is our vet and supposed to be the smartest guy on the court.
Wasnt very smart there.
If we had a time out... then yes, I agree it would have been the smartest move to go for 2... go for the steal... then foul.
But with no timeouts... you are going from a chaotic situation 23 feet away to a chaotic situation 94 feet away.
Again, I already conceded that I see your guys points... I'm simply saying I can see what went through Rondo's mind as well, and it wasn't that terrible.
It was that terrible. If he saw a man wide open from three, then it would be understandable. But he nearly lost the ball and threw it to Josh Hart who was heavily covered. Hart didn’t even have a chance at getting a good look. With more than ten seconds left, there’s no excuse to not take the wide open layup.
He definitely botched the pass... but then he was wide open for a shot of his own. Hart forced it to LBJ... not even considering Rondo as an option.
He was facing the basket... the lightbulb went on (or off, depending on your perspective)... turns around only to see Hart and Bron are covered (by which time it's too late to go back) he fumbles a pass trying to get to Hart... Hart is covered and looks for Bron... Rondo moves into shooting postion with no one guarding him. I think the clumsy play made it worse than it looked.
As I said, I see your points... but in principle going for a three with no timeouts wasn't so bad. The execution was the shabby part.
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