| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
LKA
Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 5181
Location: Sin City
|
 Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:42 am Post subject: Re: Patience? |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | LKA wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | troy wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | troy wrote: | | Excuses. Nothing but excuses...and being in last place. |
I'm fine with patience for the rebuild, but I will admit that I am getting tired of patience being used as an excuse for the performance of some players. At some point, players need to step up and get it together.
I have never been a fan of the two max FA strategy. Once Magic struck out on Paul George last summer, we were destined to be in a holding pattern for a year. I can live with that kind of patience, even if some of Magic's other decisions have been questionable. This is a placeholder roster, and the test comes next summer. |
So, we're giving away yet another year? PG13 is gone. Kawhi is loving it up in Toronto. Klay isn't leaving his Golden State Goose Egg. Meanwhile, the teams I listed in my post don't this reliance on free agents.  |
What if we get KD?
What if we get an all star like Kemba?
Or Middleton?
Or young core will be 1 year better.
LBJ would have knowingly sacrificed a post-prime year for this and that's his choice. |
We made a mistake not trading for Kawhi. We over valued our young core |
I agree |
How do you trade for KL if the Spurs never intended to trade him to the Lakers?
If we "over value" our young core, why would the Spurs want the same pieces you say are overvalued? |
This is a straw man argument. You just made this up to strengthen your argument. |
It is not. Where is the report that said the Spurs wanted to trade KL here? I'll wait. |
Did they say they didnt want to?
I thought they just didnt want Lonzo.
Spurs fans have told me Magic likely didn’t want to give up BI + Kuz |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | Did they say they didnt want to?
I thought they just didnt want Lonzo.
Spurs fans have told me Magic likely didn’t want to give up BI + Kuz |
I just find it odd that people are saying the core is overvalued, yet the Spurs would jump at the chance to trade a stud like KL for the same overvalued players.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Juggernaut
Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:46 am Post subject: Re: Patience? |
|
|
| LKA wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | LKA wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | troy wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | troy wrote: | | Excuses. Nothing but excuses...and being in last place. |
I'm fine with patience for the rebuild, but I will admit that I am getting tired of patience being used as an excuse for the performance of some players. At some point, players need to step up and get it together.
I have never been a fan of the two max FA strategy. Once Magic struck out on Paul George last summer, we were destined to be in a holding pattern for a year. I can live with that kind of patience, even if some of Magic's other decisions have been questionable. This is a placeholder roster, and the test comes next summer. |
So, we're giving away yet another year? PG13 is gone. Kawhi is loving it up in Toronto. Klay isn't leaving his Golden State Goose Egg. Meanwhile, the teams I listed in my post don't this reliance on free agents. |
What if we get KD?
What if we get an all star like Kemba?
Or Middleton?
Or young core will be 1 year better.
LBJ would have knowingly sacrificed a post-prime year for this and that's his choice. |
We made a mistake not trading for Kawhi. We over valued our young core |
I agree |
How do you trade for KL if the Spurs never intended to trade him to the Lakers?
If we "over value" our young core, why would the Spurs want the same pieces you say are overvalued? |
This is a straw man argument. You just made this up to strengthen your argument. |
It is not. Where is the report that said the Spurs wanted to trade KL here? I'll wait. |
Did they say they didnt want to?
I thought they just didnt want Lonzo.
Spurs fans have told me Magic likely didn’t want to give up BI + Kuz |
He made that up to boost his point. The Spurs wanted BI and Kuzma but Rob and Magic wouldn't do that. Spurs NEVER said they wouldn't trade KL here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | He made that up to boost his point. The Spurs wanted BI and Kuzma but Rob and Magic wouldn't do that. Spurs NEVER said they wouldn't trade KL here. |
Again, if you're saying I'm making up things, please post where the Spurs wanted BI/Kuz and Rob/Magic didn't want do that.
You can't call out someone for making things up while making things up.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Patience? |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | LKA wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | troy wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | troy wrote: | | Excuses. Nothing but excuses...and being in last place. |
I'm fine with patience for the rebuild, but I will admit that I am getting tired of patience being used as an excuse for the performance of some players. At some point, players need to step up and get it together.
I have never been a fan of the two max FA strategy. Once Magic struck out on Paul George last summer, we were destined to be in a holding pattern for a year. I can live with that kind of patience, even if some of Magic's other decisions have been questionable. This is a placeholder roster, and the test comes next summer. |
So, we're giving away yet another year? PG13 is gone. Kawhi is loving it up in Toronto. Klay isn't leaving his Golden State Goose Egg. Meanwhile, the teams I listed in my post don't this reliance on free agents. |
What if we get KD?
What if we get an all star like Kemba?
Or Middleton?
Or young core will be 1 year better.
LBJ would have knowingly sacrificed a post-prime year for this and that's his choice. |
We made a mistake not trading for Kawhi. We over valued our young core |
I agree |
How do you trade for KL if the Spurs never intended to trade him to the Lakers?
If we "over value" our young core, why would the Spurs want the same pieces you say are overvalued? |
This is a straw man argument. You just made this up to strengthen your argument. |
It is not. Where is the report that said the Spurs wanted to trade KL here? I'll wait. |
There were a ton of reports and rumors. For example, Woj reported: "The Lakers are willing to include former No. 2 overall pick Ingram and a future first-round pick in a package for Leonard, but the Spurs are seeking a far more complete haul of Lakers young players and future picks, league sources said."
That said, there were rumors about the Celtics and other teams in the Leonard derby. No one knows for sure what the Spurs asked for and what the Lakers offered, so it's hard to say with certainty what kind of shot we had at him. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LKA
Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 5181
Location: Sin City
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Time will tell but as of right now and what we’ve heard last from reports around Kawhi, he likely wont want to come here in free agency as he suddenly preferred the Clippers, from what i heard
Toronto looks like a legitimate threat to make it to the finals this year as well.
I believe it was reported that SA wanted BI + Kuz + Hart and a 1st if you ask me you gotta pull the trigger on that one. None of those 3 are gonna be Kawhi level lets be honest
And we also had the chance to get PG for BI straight up .. i understand they wanted to take their chances in free agency but cmon PG is a borderline superstar BI’s ceiling is not that high and even if we acquired PG in free agency why would you want both when they play the same position?
Some questionable decision making from Magic and Rob thus far .. again time will tell if we really messed up or not in this upcoming summer |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dont_be_a_wuss
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21458
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Juggernaut
Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | He made that up to boost his point. The Spurs wanted BI and Kuzma but Rob and Magic wouldn't do that. Spurs NEVER said they wouldn't trade KL here. |
Again, if you're saying I'm making up things, please post where the Spurs wanted BI/Kuz and Rob/Magic didn't want do that.
You can't call out someone for making things up while making things up. |
http://www.nba.com/article/2018/06/28/report-lakers-spurs-re-engage-kawhi-leonard-trade-talks
If the Spurs werent going to trade with us they wouldn't have re-engaged trade talks us. You are making stuff up VLF style. If you have proof the Spurs wouldn't trade KL to us then post the evidence. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, that's a lot more than just BI/Kuz. Hart, 2 1sts and 2 swaps. Yikes and no way.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Juggernaut
Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
Lakers should have kept negotiations going. Could have settled for BI+Kuz+2 future 1sts |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The Juggernaut wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | He made that up to boost his point. The Spurs wanted BI and Kuzma but Rob and Magic wouldn't do that. Spurs NEVER said they wouldn't trade KL here. |
Again, if you're saying I'm making up things, please post where the Spurs wanted BI/Kuz and Rob/Magic didn't want do that.
You can't call out someone for making things up while making things up. |
http://www.nba.com/article/2018/06/28/report-lakers-spurs-re-engage-kawhi-leonard-trade-talks
If the Spurs werent going to trade with us they wouldn't have re-engaged trade talks us. You are making stuff up VLF style. If you have proof the Spurs wouldn't trade KL to us then post the evidence. |
I'll admit that is my opinion. But your article does not support what you have said. It talks about KL being the lynchpin towards getting LBJ. Obviously we got LBJ without KL.
And someone posted Larry Coon's source saying it was BI/Kuz/Hart/2 1sts/2 future draft swaps.
That's a no deal.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LKA
Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 5181
Location: Sin City
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
And I’m sure Magic and Rob hung up the phone after that but they should’ve counter offered BI Kuz Hart and 1 first .. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Juggernaut
Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: |
Yeah, that's a lot more than just BI/Kuz. Hart, 2 1sts and 2 swaps. Yikes and no way. |
Your initial post was "Spurs were never going to trade KL to us" That has been proven false. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The Juggernaut wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
Yeah, that's a lot more than just BI/Kuz. Hart, 2 1sts and 2 swaps. Yikes and no way. |
Your initial post was "Spurs were never going to trade KL to us" That has been proven false. |
Alright. I'm man enough to say my initial position was incorrect.
But rightly so, the price was too high. Maybe it comes down to something reasonable, but the irony was that it was widely thought LBJ would not come unless we got PG13 or KL.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dont_be_a_wuss
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21458
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The Juggernaut wrote: |
Lakers should have kept negotiations going. Could have settled for BI+Kuz+2 future 1sts |
Not sure how you can know that. Popp has stated many times he doesn’t want to trade with western conference rivals. They weren’t going to negotiate with us in good faith for a fair offer, it was going to be a gutting or nothing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
Remember Pop was still upset about the Pau trade in 2008-09 season. To trade KL to the spot he wanted AND be faced with a LBJ/KL pairing...well, of course he would ask for everything.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Juggernaut
Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
Yeah, that's a lot more than just BI/Kuz. Hart, 2 1sts and 2 swaps. Yikes and no way. |
Your initial post was "Spurs were never going to trade KL to us" That has been proven false. |
Alright. I'm man enough to say my initial position was incorrect.
But rightly so, the price was too high. Maybe it comes down to something reasonable, but the irony was that it was widely thought LBJ would not come unless we got PG13 or KL. |
I agree the initial price was too high but that is where great negotiating could take over. I would have been willing to give up BI+Kuz+2 protected 1sts.
As soon as PG spurned us, Rob should have picked the phone back up and went hard for KL. Assuming KL is coming here no matter what was foolish. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Juggernaut
Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: |
Lakers should have kept negotiations going. Could have settled for BI+Kuz+2 future 1sts |
Not sure how you can know that. Popp has stated many times he doesn’t want to trade with western conference rivals. They weren’t going to negotiate with us in good faith for a fair offer, it was going to be a gutting or nothing. |
I don't know that but I would have tried until the last minute to get a good deal done for KL. One thing I give Mitch huge props for is the man knew how to negotiate trades. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: |
Lakers should have kept negotiations going. Could have settled for BI+Kuz+2 future 1sts |
Not sure how you can know that. Popp has stated many times he doesn’t want to trade with western conference rivals. They weren’t going to negotiate with us in good faith for a fair offer, it was going to be a gutting or nothing. |
I think it's more realistic to say that the Spurs weren't holding a fire sale and were asking a lot. And they ended up getting a pick and an all-NBA player for him.
I don't see them taking Ingram, Kuz and a couple of picks over that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Lebrons
Star Player
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 4778
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| We need to close games out. And improve the defense. All the line-up/rotation stuff will work itself out as we play more games. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
€H£M£$TR¥
Star Player
Joined: 03 Apr 2017
Posts: 3782
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
BI with Pop as a coach? Y’all freakin nuts. No. I prefer Kawhi in the east rather than give a conf rival BI under the tutalage of one of the greatest coaches in the history of the league. We came out on top by not dealing with the Spurs at all.
Not to mention still being in the running for signing him out right next summer. Remember; we are still monitoring Kawhi’s long term health here. One month does not make a season.
Doesnt let anyone off the hook - we have to continue to figure it during game time. We can do it, I have no doubt, but I do see something. And we have been in some entertaining games so far. I expected more, but I know there’s a hell of a year still in front of us.
This is where we earn our stripes, Lakernation.
_________________
DEAR BASKETBALL |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have so many friends who are Knicks fans.
Talk about patience. 
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chantruong
Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 8894
Location: SGV
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| activeverb wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: |
Lakers should have kept negotiations going. Could have settled for BI+Kuz+2 future 1sts |
Not sure how you can know that. Popp has stated many times he doesn’t want to trade with western conference rivals. They weren’t going to negotiate with us in good faith for a fair offer, it was going to be a gutting or nothing. |
I think it's more realistic to say that the Spurs weren't holding a fire sale and were asking a lot. And they ended up getting a pick and an all-NBA player for him.
I don't see them taking Ingram, Kuz and a couple of picks over that. |
This.
I tend to give the FO some benefit of doubt when it comes to trades and signings. We don't know what goes on in these negotiations and what players real motivations and intentions are. The current FO seems to be quiet after trades or non-trades. Sometimes you hear "we could of offered more" from GMs after trades. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144462
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | LKA wrote: | I really hope we land a true max player next season
If not , passing up trading for Kawhi and PG is gonna come back to bite us |
Again, I seriously doubt the Spurs were trading KL to the Lakers (especially after KL reportedly wanted to be here). Why are you confident the Spurs would have traded him here? |
I am confident that they wouldn’t since we couldn’t beat the package that Toronto gave them.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| chantruong wrote: |
I tend to give the FO some benefit of doubt when it comes to trades and signings. We don't know what goes on in these negotiations and what players real motivations and intentions are. The current FO seems to be quiet after trades or non-trades. Sometimes you hear "we could of offered more" from GMs after trades. |
I don't give the FO the benefit of the doubt; but I don't pretend to know things I don't know.
All things being equaled most GMs prefer to trade to another conference. But they aren't going to turn down a good deal. The Spurs don't make a lot of trades, but they've done deals with the Warriors and Utah so they'll trade to western deals when it's in their interest. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
