Patience?
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chantruong
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:14 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
chantruong wrote:


I tend to give the FO some benefit of doubt when it comes to trades and signings. We don't know what goes on in these negotiations and what players real motivations and intentions are. The current FO seems to be quiet after trades or non-trades. Sometimes you hear "we could of offered more" from GMs after trades.


I don't give the FO the benefit of the doubt; but I don't pretend to know things I don't know.

All things being equaled most GMs prefer to trade to another conference. But they aren't going to turn down a good deal. The Spurs don't make a lot of trades, but they've done deals with the Warriors and Utah so they'll trade to western deals when it's in their interest.


That's a good way to view things.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Patience?

Bron wrote:


"We talk about patience but you can't have reoccurrence of the same thing," James told reporters after the loss to the Timberwolves. "If you are doing the same things over and over and over and expecting the same result then that's insanity.

"So we have to get better. We can't keep having the same mistakes over and over."


Sounds like me from the Luke thread two days ago:

"Instead, the same thing over and over and over and over and over."
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:08 pm    Post subject:

anth2000 wrote:
By he way, aren't the Rockets 1-5??


Yeah, and the one team they managed to beat was us.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:42 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
He made that up to boost his point. The Spurs wanted BI and Kuzma but Rob and Magic wouldn't do that. Spurs NEVER said they wouldn't trade KL here.


Again, if you're saying I'm making up things, please post where the Spurs wanted BI/Kuz and Rob/Magic didn't want do that.

You can't call out someone for making things up while making things up.


Per Larry Coon they wanted Kuzma, Hart, Ingram, two firsts and two swaps.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2784441-lakers-trade-rumors-kawhi-leonard-ask-includes-brandon-ingram-kyle-kuzma-more.amp.html


Yeah, that's a lot more than just BI/Kuz. Hart, 2 1sts and 2 swaps. Yikes and no way.


Way too much.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:45 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
He made that up to boost his point. The Spurs wanted BI and Kuzma but Rob and Magic wouldn't do that. Spurs NEVER said they wouldn't trade KL here.


Again, if you're saying I'm making up things, please post where the Spurs wanted BI/Kuz and Rob/Magic didn't want do that.

You can't call out someone for making things up while making things up.


Per Larry Coon they wanted Kuzma, Hart, Ingram, two firsts and two swaps.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2784441-lakers-trade-rumors-kawhi-leonard-ask-includes-brandon-ingram-kyle-kuzma-more.amp.html


Yeah, that's a lot more than just BI/Kuz. Hart, 2 1sts and 2 swaps. Yikes and no way.


Way too much.


Wow

That's like asking for a arm, leg,left nut and a bag of Fritos. I hate the Spurs
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:47 pm    Post subject:

This is how much patience I have to spare. Even when the Lakers had 4 All-Stars in '97, they didn't win for another 3 years. Repeatedly swept in the 2nd round.

Granted, that was a very young team, with a different CBA. I definitely don't think it'll take that long, but compared to previous Laker teams to win the championship, it still takes time, even after 6 games.
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The Juggernaut
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:49 pm    Post subject:

It’s been 5 years since we made the playoffs. This isn’t a lack of patience based off 7 games.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:54 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
It’s been 5 years since we made the playoffs. This isn’t a lack of patience based off 7 games.


That kind of lost faith already?

Entire seasons aren't determined in the first 6 games of the season. Goodness. Way too much panic.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:57 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
It’s been 5 years since we made the playoffs. This isn’t a lack of patience based off 7 games.


That kind of lost faith already?

Entire seasons aren't determined in the first 6 games of the season. Goodness. Way too much panic.


In the WEST we can’t keep allowing Luke to waste a third of the season and expect to walk into the playoffs. There is absolutely a cause for concern, no ones panicking yet.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:59 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
It’s been 5 years since we made the playoffs. This isn’t a lack of patience based off 7 games.


That kind of lost faith already?

Entire seasons aren't determined in the first 6 games of the season. Goodness. Way too much panic.


In the WEST we can’t keep allowing Luke to waste a third of the season and expect to walk into the playoffs. There is absolutely a cause for concern, no ones panicking yet.


I've seen enough threads of trades for centers and criticising Luke to make it look damn sure like it's panic.
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The Juggernaut
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:02 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
It’s been 5 years since we made the playoffs. This isn’t a lack of patience based off 7 games.


That kind of lost faith already?

Entire seasons aren't determined in the first 6 games of the season. Goodness. Way too much panic.


In the WEST we can’t keep allowing Luke to waste a third of the season and expect to walk into the playoffs. There is absolutely a cause for concern, no ones panicking yet.


I've seen enough threads of trades for centers and criticising Luke to make it look damn sure like it's panic.


No, it’s concern and it’s apparent where the problems lie. Some of you need to stop burying your heads in the sand hoping things will magically work out using the guise of patience is a cop out.
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JerryMagicKobe
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:05 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
It’s been 5 years since we made the playoffs. This isn’t a lack of patience based off 7 games.


That kind of lost faith already?

Entire seasons aren't determined in the first 6 games of the season. Goodness. Way too much panic.


In the WEST we can’t keep allowing Luke to waste a third of the season and expect to walk into the playoffs. There is absolutely a cause for concern, no ones panicking yet.


I've seen enough threads of trades for centers and criticising Luke to make it look damn sure like it's panic.


No, it’s concern and it’s apparent where the problems lie. Some of you need to stop burying your heads in the sand hoping things will magically work out using the guise of patience is a cop out.

It's fine to have one's own opinion, but there is no need to insult others by saying they are burying their head in the sand hoping for magic.

Mike has valuable opinions and is always respectful in how he expresses himself. Follow his example even in disagreement.
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The Juggernaut
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:06 pm    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
It’s been 5 years since we made the playoffs. This isn’t a lack of patience based off 7 games.


That kind of lost faith already?

Entire seasons aren't determined in the first 6 games of the season. Goodness. Way too much panic.


In the WEST we can’t keep allowing Luke to waste a third of the season and expect to walk into the playoffs. There is absolutely a cause for concern, no ones panicking yet.


I've seen enough threads of trades for centers and criticising Luke to make it look damn sure like it's panic.


No, it’s concern and it’s apparent where the problems lie. Some of you need to stop burying your heads in the sand hoping things will magically work out using the guise of patience is a cop out.

It's fine to have one's own opinion, but there is no need to insult others by saying they are burying their head in the sand hoping for magic.

Mike has valuable opinions and is always respectful in how he expresses himself. Follow his example even in disagreement.


I wasn’t insulting anyone nor was that sentence aimed at Mike.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:07 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
It’s been 5 years since we made the playoffs. This isn’t a lack of patience based off 7 games.


That kind of lost faith already?

Entire seasons aren't determined in the first 6 games of the season. Goodness. Way too much panic.


In the WEST we can’t keep allowing Luke to waste a third of the season and expect to walk into the playoffs. There is absolutely a cause for concern, no ones panicking yet.


I've seen enough threads of trades for centers and criticising Luke to make it look damn sure like it's panic.


No, it’s concern and it’s apparent where the problems lie. Some of you need to stop burying your heads in the sand hoping things will magically work out using the guise of patience is a cop out.


It's definitely not burying the sand, especially when every NBA team has MUCH longer windows for development before getting to a championship.

Even a near peak LeBron with All-Star Bosh and All-Star Wade was around a .500 team to start. Did they panic too?
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JerryMagicKobe
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:14 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
It’s been 5 years since we made the playoffs. This isn’t a lack of patience based off 7 games.


That kind of lost faith already?

Entire seasons aren't determined in the first 6 games of the season. Goodness. Way too much panic.


In the WEST we can’t keep allowing Luke to waste a third of the season and expect to walk into the playoffs. There is absolutely a cause for concern, no ones panicking yet.


I've seen enough threads of trades for centers and criticising Luke to make it look damn sure like it's panic.


No, it’s concern and it’s apparent where the problems lie. Some of you need to stop burying your heads in the sand hoping things will magically work out using the guise of patience is a cop out.

It's fine to have one's own opinion, but there is no need to insult others by saying they are burying their head in the sand hoping for magic.

Mike has valuable opinions and is always respectful in how he expresses himself. Follow his example even in disagreement.


I wasn’t insulting anyone nor was that sentence aimed at Mike.

I took it that way, he took it that way, and you chose words that indicated that Mike was part of 'you guys'.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:16 pm    Post subject:

^Yup.

Just because I've dealt with worse, doesn't make it any less wrong.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Patience?

troy wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
troy wrote:
Excuses. Nothing but excuses...and being in last place.


I'm fine with patience for the rebuild, but I will admit that I am getting tired of patience being used as an excuse for the performance of some players. At some point, players need to step up and get it together.

I have never been a fan of the two max FA strategy. Once Magic struck out on Paul George last summer, we were destined to be in a holding pattern for a year. I can live with that kind of patience, even if some of Magic's other decisions have been questionable. This is a placeholder roster, and the test comes next summer.


So, we're giving away yet another year? PG13 is gone. Kawhi is loving it up in Toronto. Klay isn't leaving his Golden State Goose Egg. Meanwhile, the teams I listed (Milwaukee, Denver, ect) in my post don't this reliance on signing free agents.


That’s the risk of the two max FA strategy. We could strike out or end up locking up the bulk of our cap space on players who just aren’t good enough. The latter is worse. We could end up in the purgatory of the marginal playoff team.

If Magic pulls it off, I will tip my cap to him. But I would rather that we had focused on asset acquisition. Quick fix strategies are what got us to this point, going back to Nash and Howard. Maybe this one will work out.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Patience?

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
troy wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
troy wrote:
Excuses. Nothing but excuses...and being in last place.


I'm fine with patience for the rebuild, but I will admit that I am getting tired of patience being used as an excuse for the performance of some players. At some point, players need to step up and get it together.

I have never been a fan of the two max FA strategy. Once Magic struck out on Paul George last summer, we were destined to be in a holding pattern for a year. I can live with that kind of patience, even if some of Magic's other decisions have been questionable. This is a placeholder roster, and the test comes next summer.


So, we're giving away yet another year? PG13 is gone. Kawhi is loving it up in Toronto. Klay isn't leaving his Golden State Goose Egg. Meanwhile, the teams I listed (Milwaukee, Denver, ect) in my post don't this reliance on signing free agents.


That’s the risk of the two max FA strategy. We could strike out or end up locking up the bulk of our cap space on players who just aren’t good enough. The latter is worse. We could end up in the purgatory of the marginal playoff team.

If Magic pulls it off, I will tip my cap to him. But I would rather that we had focused on asset acquisition. Quick fix strategies are what got us to this point, going back to Nash and Howard. Maybe this one will work out.


But wait, isn't this the most ideal situation? We had a core-team of young players that weren't totally horrible out there, and had 2 max slots? What other team had that luxury? Or could build it in such a short time?

That's how badly PG messed with the Lakers. There's just 1 summer left for that 1 max FA acquisition.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:55 pm    Post subject:

My 5 cents:

1) I think is the first time in the past 5 years that "patience" is applicable. I don't think many basketball fans thought drafting D-Lo or signing Deng and Mozgov made us anywhere near playoff much less title contenders. I was not exercising patience with those teams as I did not see them as anywhere near competitive. That was poor management and a lack of outside interest.

2) I find it comical when people blame FO for missing on signing players. In this era in sports where players have more power and resources than ever (and deservedly so) I cannot think that a pitch from FO means as much as it used to in the pre-social media era. Did Magic miss on PG? I don't think so, PG was doing what he was doing regardless. That goes for the countless other FAs the Lakers have missed on over the years. Stars are focused on situation more than the allure of LA of yore.

3) I am in favor of most of the offseason moves. I am in favor of signing Lebron. I am in favor of not trading for Kawhi. One thing I do not agree with was passing on re-signing Randle (for what turned out to be a very reasonable contract) and signing someone like Rondo. He would be that big that we are all missing with the current lineup.

4) That all being said, now is the first time in a long time that exercising patience is the proper word. I do not see it as an excuse at all. It has been 7 freaking games haha. With a vastly different roster. No rotations are exact. The team is learning about itself. Like other posters have mentioned, I will start the panic party 12/25. Until then, watch the evolution.

They have been in every game into the fourth quarter where they fumble (like many teams inexperienced in playing with each other). Kuzma's off ball play has been quite impressive (zero D though). Hart showing what he can be, which is a quality role player. Ingram has been a bit frustrating to watch, have not seen him gel with what it appears this team's identity is offensively but much improved defensively.

Bottom line (imho): take a breath, watch with optimism, and evaluate big picture issues in a few months.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:23 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
It’s been 5 years since we made the playoffs. This isn’t a lack of patience based off 7 games.


That kind of lost faith already?

Entire seasons aren't determined in the first 6 games of the season. Goodness. Way too much panic.


In the WEST we can’t keep allowing Luke to waste a third of the season and expect to walk into the playoffs. There is absolutely a cause for concern, no ones panicking yet.


I've seen enough threads of trades for centers and criticising Luke to make it look damn sure like it's panic.


No, it’s concern and it’s apparent where the problems lie. Some of you need to stop burying your heads in the sand hoping things will magically work out using the guise of patience is a cop out.

It's fine to have one's own opinion, but there is no need to insult others by saying they are burying their head in the sand hoping for magic.

Mike has valuable opinions and is always respectful in how he expresses himself. Follow his example even in disagreement.


I wasn’t insulting anyone nor was that sentence aimed at Mike.


Wow, I don't personally know you two Moderators, but how is that comment insulting? Jeez, its just an expression....just like: Wake Up and Smell the Coffee, Luke Walton cannot keep wasting 1/3 the season because he is not a good coach. Would that expression also be insulting?

Of course, I suppose we could say: Excuse me, I respectfully disagree with you. But I still don't think that either of those two expressions are meant to be insulting. Now had he called your opionion stupid and you are a moron, then obviously he would have meant to be insulting.

Anyway, back to basketball. I don't post much (please, none of the usual come-backs), but I enjoy reading all of the opinions on here. Some of you are very knowledgeable of the game.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Patience?

Mike@LG wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
That’s the risk of the two max FA strategy. We could strike out or end up locking up the bulk of our cap space on players who just aren’t good enough. The latter is worse. We could end up in the purgatory of the marginal playoff team.

If Magic pulls it off, I will tip my cap to him. But I would rather that we had focused on asset acquisition. Quick fix strategies are what got us to this point, going back to Nash and Howard. Maybe this one will work out.


But wait, isn't this the most ideal situation? We had a core-team of young players that weren't totally horrible out there, and had 2 max slots? What other team had that luxury? Or could build it in such a short time?

That's how badly PG messed with the Lakers. There's just 1 summer left for that 1 max FA acquisition.


I don't know. Suppose we had signed PG. I'm not sure what the rest of the roster would have looked like, aside from the kids. I'm not sure what would have happened to Randle in that scenario. We presumably would not have Casey P. and Rondo. We might not have McGee. Would Lebron + PG + the kids + whatever else be good enough to contend? Again, I just don't know.

But if that had happened, I'd give Magic credit for having a plan and executing it. If he signs Leonard or Durant next summer, I'll give him the same credit. I may not like the strategy, but that doesn't mean that it can't work. I'm just pointing out the risks inherent in the strategy.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:08 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
It’s been 5 years since we made the playoffs. This isn’t a lack of patience based off 7 games.


That kind of lost faith already?

Entire seasons aren't determined in the first 6 games of the season. Goodness. Way too much panic.


In the WEST we can’t keep allowing Luke to waste a third of the season and expect to walk into the playoffs. There is absolutely a cause for concern, no ones panicking yet.


I've seen enough threads of trades for centers and criticising Luke to make it look damn sure like it's panic.


No, it’s concern and it’s apparent where the problems lie. Some of you need to stop burying your heads in the sand hoping things will magically work out using the guise of patience is a cop out.


Maybe some of us aren’t panicking or burying our heads in the sand. Maybe what is happening isn’t a surprise. We knew it would be a slow start and that success depended on the development of our young players. If anything is troubling it is that the young players as a whole seem to have regressed. Unless that changes things might not get a whole lot better.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:21 pm    Post subject:

I can see us making a nice run in the playoffs.

I can see us making a run at a lotto pick.

We are entertaining, so I can be patient.

The only thing I won't tolerate is if LBJ has us trade the core because he made us sign these random players like KCP, Lance, or Beasley.

As long as we keep most of the core and don't make stupid panic moves... I can enjoy the season, no matter which way it goes.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:06 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
It’s been 5 years since we made the playoffs. This isn’t a lack of patience based off 7 games.


That kind of lost faith already?

Entire seasons aren't determined in the first 6 games of the season. Goodness. Way too much panic.


In the WEST we can’t keep allowing Luke to waste a third of the season and expect to walk into the playoffs. There is absolutely a cause for concern, no ones panicking yet.



I think Luke's in a tough spot. Every year, he's seen the roster dramatically changed. I can understand why he always tinkers to start the season.

I'm not sure if he can do anything that won't leave a huge percentage of the fan base dissatisfied. He's been handed a mismatched rosters, full of veteran rentals. We might squeeze us into the playoffs, but this team isn't built to win. It's built to preserve cap space and hope the young guys improve.

The problem is that the Lakers always seem to go 50-50 on rebuilding and competing, because the fan base won't really accept rebuilding.

That said, Luke hasn't shown anything to make me think he's the next great coach. It wouldn't bother me if he gets fired; but I don't think firing him will really change anything.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:33 pm    Post subject:

Patience? We turning this around on Saturday
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