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ringfinger
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 Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:33 am Post subject: Young Core Rebounding Rate -- Why? |
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Was toying around with some stats earlier this morning. Given our struggles on the rebounding end due to lack of bigs that rebound well, I would fully expect the rebounding rates of the young core to have improved year over year. But we're not seeing that, in fact, we see a decline across the board. So my question to you guys is -- why is this happening? Because the declines are not just trivial, they are substantial IMO.
TRB% = Total Rebounding Rate (per Basketball-Reference.com) = An estimate of the percentage of available rebounds a player grabbed while he was on the floor
Lonzo
2017 TRB%: 10.8
2018 TRB%: 8.5
Hart
2017 DRB%: 9.6
2018 DRB%: 7.7
Ingram
2017 DRB%: 8.5
2018 DRB%: 7.5
Kuz
2017 DRB%: 10.7
2018 DRB%: 8.2
Is it effort? A scheme change from last year? Maybe the lack of a Brook Lopez / Julius Randle space eater that opens up boards for others? How can it be that not ONE player from last season can rebound better, in a season where we need more? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:34 am Post subject: |
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Everyone is leaking out to run fast and forgetting that someone needs to grab that rebound.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:34 am Post subject: |
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It's not effort. It's the lack of 1 big consistently boxing out top rebounders so that the wings/guards can outright get the ball.
Even when the Lakers don't leak out, they barely match the opponent with total rebounds.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:46 am Post subject: |
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Makes a lot of sense guys, thanks, especially your explanation Mike because I think that covers the declines we're seeing on Offensive Rebounding for those guys also. (Except Ingram).
Lonzo
2017 TRB%: 4.2
2018 TRB%: 2.8
Hart
2017 DRB%: 3.1
2018 DRB%: 1.4
Ingram
2017 DRB%: 3.1
2018 DRB%: 5.6
Kuz
2017 DRB%: 3.9
2018 DRB%: 2.5 |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:48 am Post subject: |
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^It's even more disappointing when you compare the Bucks rebounding rates of last season to this season and notice one new starter.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | It's not effort. It's the lack of 1 big consistently boxing out top rebounders so that the wings/guards can outright get the ball.
Even when the Lakers don't leak out, they barely match the opponent with total rebounds. |
That was Brook.
I also notice that JaVale often takes off b/f the defensive rebound is secure. That leaves an opposing center to grab a board a lot of times. Of course it also leads to some spectacular rim run dunks by JaVale too.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | ^It's even more disappointing when you compare the Bucks rebounding rates of last season to this season and notice one new starter. |
Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. We really need a space eater. |
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Ziggy
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:03 am Post subject: |
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I underrated Brook.  |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | It's not effort. It's the lack of 1 big consistently boxing out top rebounders so that the wings/guards can outright get the ball.
Even when the Lakers don't leak out, they barely match the opponent with total rebounds. |
it is this all day....Brook is one of the best in the NBA as a space eater boxing one or even two guys out creating opportunities for teammates to snag rebounds. Julius always had to be accounted for also, freeing up teammates. |
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Staccatos
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| Ziggy wrote: | | I underrated Brook. |
People bag on Brook Lopez's individual rebounding numbers but overlook the improved team rebounding of players on his team. Brook boxes out and gets his teammates rebounds. Does not show up in the boxscore. |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | It's not effort. It's the lack of 1 big consistently boxing out top rebounders so that the wings/guards can outright get the ball.
Even when the Lakers don't leak out, they barely match the opponent with total rebounds. |
naw mike I aint buying that. sure BLopez did a nice job boxing out at times. but lets not act like thats what he was completely designed to do and thats all he did for the betterment of the team.
What i see wrong with this unit is what we all know. too many leakers trying to run at an insane pace. we seem to be running out more than we did last season. i said trying, not saying its working. lol.
I also see a situation where we have a lot of those young guys that didnt have anyone taking their time and they knew it. So they could get more burn and started to play better once in the groove. playing better meant playing more aware as in putting a body on someBody.
KCP last year was on that glass along with Zo and randle. Kuz was always a semi suspect rebounder. he's very light in the tail and he isnt a guy that has a serious nose for the rebound. sure he can get a lot better, but thats not his thing at all really. KCP aint getting the same burn and when he does play he's looking over his shoulder wondering if that next buzzer is for him vs boxing out.
I've seen all of our youngs that were on the glass last year just completely asleep when it comes to boxing out this season so far and I did not see that this often last year. I think that has to do with trying to get out and run even more than last season, a lot of new faces, guys trying to rush to prove themselves. no schemes to implement rondo, bron. other guys taking your mins or the threat of it. all these things = not on that glass like last year. non of those things have anything to do with Lopez. |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | It's not effort. It's the lack of 1 big consistently boxing out top rebounders so that the wings/guards can outright get the ball.
Even when the Lakers don't leak out, they barely match the opponent with total rebounds. |
That was Brook.
I also notice that JaVale often takes off b/f the defensive rebound is secure. That leaves an opposing center to grab a board a lot of times. Of course it also leads to some spectacular rim run dunks by JaVale too. |
This is the issue. its not brook taking up space. brook couldnt run like that. so he wouldnt. Mcgee can, so he does. but that means an opposing center as you've stated is just right there with some of our littles and we know that isnt good. the #1 issue is everyone is trying to run out. The truth is, some people can leak. but everyone can't leave. you should always have 2 guys back to box out and snag. not one guy that isnt even boxing out. lol |
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Fracture
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| Brook Lopez |
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danzag
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Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| That's what a flawed roster does to you |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| splashmtn wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | It's not effort. It's the lack of 1 big consistently boxing out top rebounders so that the wings/guards can outright get the ball.
Even when the Lakers don't leak out, they barely match the opponent with total rebounds. |
naw mike I aint buying that. sure BLopez did a nice job boxing out at times. but lets not act like thats what he was completely designed to do and thats all he did for the betterment of the team.
What i see wrong with this unit is what we all know. too many leakers trying to run at an insane pace. we seem to be running out more than we did last season. i said trying, not saying its working. lol.
I also see a situation where we have a lot of those young guys that didnt have anyone taking their time and they knew it. So they could get more burn and started to play better once in the groove. playing better meant playing more aware as in putting a body on someBody.
KCP last year was on that glass along with Zo and randle. Kuz was always a semi suspect rebounder. he's very light in the tail and he isnt a guy that has a serious nose for the rebound. sure he can get a lot better, but thats not his thing at all really. KCP aint getting the same burn and when he does play he's looking over his shoulder wondering if that next buzzer is for him vs boxing out.
I've seen all of our youngs that were on the glass last year just completely asleep when it comes to boxing out this season so far and I did not see that this often last year. I think that has to do with trying to get out and run even more than last season, a lot of new faces, guys trying to rush to prove themselves. no schemes to implement rondo, bron. other guys taking your mins or the threat of it. all these things = not on that glass like last year. non of those things have anything to do with Lopez. |
This doesn’t however, explain why offensive rebounding rate is also down amongst our young core. |
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The Juggernaut
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Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Everyone is leaking out to run fast and forgetting that someone needs to grab that rebound. |
Yup! Luke's remedy for his coaching staff's poor half court schemes is to have the team run. That is leading to more leak outs without securing the rebound. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Everyone is leaking out to run fast and forgetting that someone needs to grab that rebound. |
Yup! Luke's remedy for his coaching staff's poor half court schemes is to have the team run. That is leading to more leak outs without securing the rebound. |
Problem is that is great for the 1st and 3rd quarters, but by the late 3rd/4th, the better teams will start adjusting and slowing us down. And then we have poor half court execution.
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SuperboyReformed
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | splashmtn wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | It's not effort. It's the lack of 1 big consistently boxing out top rebounders so that the wings/guards can outright get the ball.
Even when the Lakers don't leak out, they barely match the opponent with total rebounds. |
naw mike I aint buying that. sure BLopez did a nice job boxing out at times. but lets not act like thats what he was completely designed to do and thats all he did for the betterment of the team.
What i see wrong with this unit is what we all know. too many leakers trying to run at an insane pace. we seem to be running out more than we did last season. i said trying, not saying its working. lol.
I also see a situation where we have a lot of those young guys that didnt have anyone taking their time and they knew it. So they could get more burn and started to play better once in the groove. playing better meant playing more aware as in putting a body on someBody.
KCP last year was on that glass along with Zo and randle. Kuz was always a semi suspect rebounder. he's very light in the tail and he isnt a guy that has a serious nose for the rebound. sure he can get a lot better, but thats not his thing at all really. KCP aint getting the same burn and when he does play he's looking over his shoulder wondering if that next buzzer is for him vs boxing out.
I've seen all of our youngs that were on the glass last year just completely asleep when it comes to boxing out this season so far and I did not see that this often last year. I think that has to do with trying to get out and run even more than last season, a lot of new faces, guys trying to rush to prove themselves. no schemes to implement rondo, bron. other guys taking your mins or the threat of it. all these things = not on that glass like last year. non of those things have anything to do with Lopez. |
This doesn’t however, explain why offensive rebounding rate is also down amongst our young core. |
we're trying to push the pace, so everyone is trying to get out and run. This is going to affect rebounding which means someone has to stay back and grab those boards. You can't have everyone run out and still box out and get all the boards.
We have a pick your poison problem. We are bad at shooting, so we are trying to outrun guys. So all these things like rebounding will be affected. It would be different if we were actually good at shooting and just decided as a strategy to push the pace. But we HAVE to push the pace or else we are stuck in halfcourt, and will brick everything. MOre rebounding, fewer fast breaks. splash is right. |
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AllorNothing
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| It seems that if lonzo isn't in the game, the opponent aren't going to worry about any fast break opportunities for the Lakers, so there is no negative for them to get that extra rebound. The combo of lebron and rondo is always a halfcourt slow it down pace. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperboyReformed wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | This doesn’t however, explain why offensive rebounding rate is also down amongst our young core. |
we're trying to push the pace, so everyone is trying to get out and run. This is going to affect rebounding which means someone has to stay back and grab those boards. You can't have everyone run out and still box out and get all the boards.
We have a pick your poison problem. We are bad at shooting, so we are trying to outrun guys. So all these things like rebounding will be affected. It would be different if we were actually good at shooting and just decided as a strategy to push the pace. But we HAVE to push the pace or else we are stuck in halfcourt, and will brick everything. MOre rebounding, fewer fast breaks. splash is right. |
As Ringfinger says, though, none of this explains the decline in offensive rebounding. |
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Captain America
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | This doesn’t however, explain why offensive rebounding rate is also down amongst our young core. |
we're trying to push the pace, so everyone is trying to get out and run. This is going to affect rebounding which means someone has to stay back and grab those boards. You can't have everyone run out and still box out and get all the boards.
We have a pick your poison problem. We are bad at shooting, so we are trying to outrun guys. So all these things like rebounding will be affected. It would be different if we were actually good at shooting and just decided as a strategy to push the pace. But we HAVE to push the pace or else we are stuck in halfcourt, and will brick everything. MOre rebounding, fewer fast breaks. splash is right. |
As Ringfinger says, though, none of this explains the decline in offensive rebounding. |
Wow, I am always surprised how a lot of casual fans do not understand the art of rebounding, no offense. It is way easier to crash boards when you have bigs crashing with you and drawing attention. We lost Lopez and Randle, both excellent rebounders. Without bigs of course our guards and small forwards are gonna see massive dips in rebounding opportunities. |
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55
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Isn’t JaVale gobbling up the boards that Brook didn’t used to, thus taking away opportunities from the guards? |
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ShowtimeReturns
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Everyone is leaking out to run fast and forgetting that someone needs to grab that rebound. |
Yup! Luke's remedy for his coaching staff's poor half court schemes is to have the team run. That is leading to more leak outs without securing the rebound. |
Problem is that is great for the 1st and 3rd quarters, but by the late 3rd/4th, the better teams will start adjusting and slowing us down. And then we have poor half court execution. |
You guys nailed it Trying to be the fastest team on offense has has screwed up getting rebounds and why teams are getting so many offensive rebounds. |
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€H£M£$TR¥
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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This is where we need BI to step up. This is a flaw in his game. Focusing on cleanup is our weakness, and if BI can take a lead in our weakest facet, I have a feeling he will be a leading force in the turnaround. It would also guarantee a long tenure with the purple and gold.
Hate to say it, but look at the dubs... there’s always someone looking to fill a role. That glue mentality is infectious. Get BI on the boards, and I guarantee home court at Staples in the first round of the playoffs.
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VicXLakers
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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^ give him time ...he'll be doing it all  |
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