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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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 Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| splashmtn wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | It's not effort. It's the lack of 1 big consistently boxing out top rebounders so that the wings/guards can outright get the ball.
Even when the Lakers don't leak out, they barely match the opponent with total rebounds. |
naw mike I aint buying that. sure BLopez did a nice job boxing out at times. but lets not act like thats what he was completely designed to do and thats all he did for the betterment of the team.
What i see wrong with this unit is what we all know. too many leakers trying to run at an insane pace. we seem to be running out more than we did last season. i said trying, not saying its working. lol.
I also see a situation where we have a lot of those young guys that didnt have anyone taking their time and they knew it. So they could get more burn and started to play better once in the groove. playing better meant playing more aware as in putting a body on someBody.
KCP last year was on that glass along with Zo and randle. Kuz was always a semi suspect rebounder. he's very light in the tail and he isnt a guy that has a serious nose for the rebound. sure he can get a lot better, but thats not his thing at all really. KCP aint getting the same burn and when he does play he's looking over his shoulder wondering if that next buzzer is for him vs boxing out.
I've seen all of our youngs that were on the glass last year just completely asleep when it comes to boxing out this season so far and I did not see that this often last year. I think that has to do with trying to get out and run even more than last season, a lot of new faces, guys trying to rush to prove themselves. no schemes to implement rondo, bron. other guys taking your mins or the threat of it. all these things = not on that glass like last year. non of those things have anything to do with Lopez. |
Don't buy it. It's been his recent career trend.
All the youngs were on the glass, and barely broke even against a soft Dallas team. Doesn't look good.
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| splashmtn wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | It's not effort. It's the lack of 1 big consistently boxing out top rebounders so that the wings/guards can outright get the ball.
Even when the Lakers don't leak out, they barely match the opponent with total rebounds. |
naw mike I aint buying that. sure BLopez did a nice job boxing out at times. but lets not act like thats what he was completely designed to do and thats all he did for the betterment of the team.
What i see wrong with this unit is what we all know. too many leakers trying to run at an insane pace. we seem to be running out more than we did last season. i said trying, not saying its working. lol.
I also see a situation where we have a lot of those young guys that didnt have anyone taking their time and they knew it. So they could get more burn and started to play better once in the groove. playing better meant playing more aware as in putting a body on someBody.
KCP last year was on that glass along with Zo and randle. Kuz was always a semi suspect rebounder. he's very light in the tail and he isnt a guy that has a serious nose for the rebound. sure he can get a lot better, but thats not his thing at all really. KCP aint getting the same burn and when he does play he's looking over his shoulder wondering if that next buzzer is for him vs boxing out.
I've seen all of our youngs that were on the glass last year just completely asleep when it comes to boxing out this season so far and I did not see that this often last year. I think that has to do with trying to get out and run even more than last season, a lot of new faces, guys trying to rush to prove themselves. no schemes to implement rondo, bron. other guys taking your mins or the threat of it. all these things = not on that glass like last year. non of those things have anything to do with Lopez. |
Don't buy it. It's been his recent career trend.
All the youngs were on the glass, and barely broke even against a soft Dallas team. Doesn't look good.
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https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| 55 wrote: | | Isn’t JaVale gobbling up the boards that Brook didn’t used to, thus taking away opportunities from the guards? |
No.
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KBandKB
Star Player
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 2278
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| Correct me if I just don't understand rebound % at all, but isn't it obvious that our young players would rebound less? We have added improved rebounders in Lebron, McGee, Rondo, and Lance (than Brook Lopez, Clarkson, Nance, etc.)... They're numbers are pretty solid for players at their position. So if they're rebounding at a high rate, obviously the other players rebounds would need to drop right? |
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Practice
Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2015
Posts: 4551
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| KBandKB wrote: | | Correct me if I just don't understand rebound % at all, but isn't it obvious that our young players would rebound less? We have added improved rebounders in Lebron, McGee, Rondo, and Lance (than Brook Lopez, Clarkson, Nance, etc.)... They're numbers are pretty solid for players at their position. So if they're rebounding at a high rate, obviously the other players rebounds would need to drop right? |
The issue is that the new players aren't making up for it and our rebounding is very poor to start the season. Kuzma and Ingram were already meh rebounders to start with as well and LeBron is kinda coasting when it comes to certain aspects of the game. There's also players just leaking out and Luke has come out and said that they aren't supposed to be doing that and if you see any player leaking out it's a mistake.
Brook didn't average a lot of rebounds, but he boxed out and got our team a lot even if they didn't go to him. |
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blackmamba08
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Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 2608
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| It is the style of the game and running on the court like an idiots. They need to start playing defense and rebounding. It is simple. Everyone are looking just to run and get the ball. Kuzma is the best example of this. |
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| KBandKB wrote: | | Correct me if I just don't understand rebound % at all, but isn't it obvious that our young players would rebound less? We have added improved rebounders in Lebron, McGee, Rondo, and Lance (than Brook Lopez, Clarkson, Nance, etc.)... They're numbers are pretty solid for players at their position. So if they're rebounding at a high rate, obviously the other players rebounds would need to drop right? |
Not necessarily.
What really hurts is offensive rebounding, because the team actually gets extra possessions. The Lakers aren't great with offensive rebounds. They're ranked #17 with 10.3 Orebs per game. The worst team gets 7.4. The best team gets 13+ for the season. Those are just the averages.
The real truth is, the Lakers give up extra possessions to the opponent. They give up 12+ Orebs per game, and the only tough paint teams the Lakers have faced is HOU and MIN. They give up, on average, 3 possessions to the opponent on rebounding alone.
The Lakers play a possession game. League leaders in fast break points and points in the paint. PPP in transition isn't as high as it should be because 3-point shooting hasn't clicked. So, if the Lakers give up 3 possessions per game, their defense isn't great, it should be no surprise that the point differential in the losses is less than 6 points a game.
Outside of losing the possession game, the Lakers put their opponents at the free throw line a lot too. So, that's like losing extra possessions.
A lot of this is covered in this article by myself, Cranjis (Tim), and Alex from SSR.
http://bball-index.com/lakers-roundtable-11-2019/
The teams that are closest to 20% OReb and 80% DReb rates are usually elite.
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Last edited by Mike@LG on Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| Captain America wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | This doesn’t however, explain why offensive rebounding rate is also down amongst our young core. |
we're trying to push the pace, so everyone is trying to get out and run. This is going to affect rebounding which means someone has to stay back and grab those boards. You can't have everyone run out and still box out and get all the boards.
We have a pick your poison problem. We are bad at shooting, so we are trying to outrun guys. So all these things like rebounding will be affected. It would be different if we were actually good at shooting and just decided as a strategy to push the pace. But we HAVE to push the pace or else we are stuck in halfcourt, and will brick everything. MOre rebounding, fewer fast breaks. splash is right. |
As Ringfinger says, though, none of this explains the decline in offensive rebounding. |
Wow, I am always surprised how a lot of casual fans do not understand the art of rebounding, no offense. It is way easier to crash boards when you have bigs crashing with you and drawing attention. We lost Lopez and Randle, both excellent rebounders. Without bigs of course our guards and small forwards are gonna see massive dips in rebounding opportunities. |
For someone who understands the art of rebounding, I am stunned you would say Brook Lopez is an excellent rebounder. He is an awful rebounder.
The drop in OREB% is explained by Mike -- that Lopez in particular, and Randle too, are space eaters that free up boards for the other players.
The eagerness to run might explain the drop in DREB%, but it doesn't explain the drop in OREB%, though, Mike's explanation does. |
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Captain America
Starting Rotation
Joined: 20 Oct 2014
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Captain America wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | This doesn’t however, explain why offensive rebounding rate is also down amongst our young core. |
we're trying to push the pace, so everyone is trying to get out and run. This is going to affect rebounding which means someone has to stay back and grab those boards. You can't have everyone run out and still box out and get all the boards.
We have a pick your poison problem. We are bad at shooting, so we are trying to outrun guys. So all these things like rebounding will be affected. It would be different if we were actually good at shooting and just decided as a strategy to push the pace. But we HAVE to push the pace or else we are stuck in halfcourt, and will brick everything. MOre rebounding, fewer fast breaks. splash is right. |
As Ringfinger says, though, none of this explains the decline in offensive rebounding. |
Wow, I am always surprised how a lot of casual fans do not understand the art of rebounding, no offense. It is way easier to crash boards when you have bigs crashing with you and drawing attention. We lost Lopez and Randle, both excellent rebounders. Without bigs of course our guards and small forwards are gonna see massive dips in rebounding opportunities. |
For someone who understands the art of rebounding, I am stunned you would say Brook Lopez is an excellent rebounder. He is an awful rebounder.
The drop in OREB% is explained by Mike -- that Lopez in particular, and Randle too, are space eaters that free up boards for the other players.
The eagerness to run might explain the drop in DREB%, but it doesn't explain the drop in OREB%, though, Mike's explanation does. |
Brooks an excellent rebounder. That was one of our main strengths last year was defense and rebounder. Boxing out doesn't show up in the rebounding column smh |
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